How to Craft Connections

Joining me on the podcast this week are Bex Hyde and Aimée Johnson, founders of The Connection Ltd. We explore their journeys from childhood aspirations through to the creation of a business that is solely focused on creating genuine connections. We peel back the layers of their experiences, discussing the importance of knowing your strengths, the resilience needed in entrepreneurship, and the excitement of seeing your designs on global superstars. Their stories are a testament to the notion that the path less traveled often leads to the most rewarding destinations.

Follow The Connection Ltd here: https://www.instagram.com/theconnectionltd
Follow Bex here: https://www.instagram.com/sacredhawkbex
Follow Aimée here: https://www.instagram.com/aimeejohnson

The JobsWorth website is here www.jobs-worth.com

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Chapters

• 0:00 Crafting Connections in Creative Industries
• 11:17 School Experience and Fashion Influencers
• 23:06 Navigating a Career in Buying
• 31:30 From Vintage to Rihanna
• 39:47 From Designer to Wholesale Director
• 54:17 From Coffee Shop to Creative Director
• 1:05:14 Influencer vs Content Creator Debate
• 1:10:12 Developing a Bespoke Social Media Strategy
• 1:17:40 Living and Breathing Digital Marketing
• 1:32:06 Creativity and AI
• 1:38:30 Creatives and Entrepreneurs in Local Community
• 1:47:27 Mum's Closing Question

Transcript

Bex Hyde: 0:00

I mean Amy's queen of food pics, but I do like to take her food pics.

John Hawker: 0:04

They are good.

Aimée Johnson: 0:05

Yeah, they're very good. She's very good At the connection.

Bex Hyde: 0:08

I'm like damn it, Amy's picture's better than mine.

John Hawker: 0:13

I love this. This is good. This is good chat, because these soundbites just make a glorious intro.

Aimée Johnson: 0:18

Are we?

John Hawker: 0:19

recording. Oh yeah, completely yeah oh. Jobsworth, season 2, episode 7, how to Craft Connections. Welcome to Episode 7 of Jopsworth, season 2. This week, I welcome the first of two dynamic duos you'll be hearing from this season Bex Hyde and Amy Johnson, founders of the Connection Limited, a creative agency specialising in brand strategy for clients across a range of industries. Collectively, bex and Amy have years of experience working in creative roles with some of the world's biggest brands, as well as having launched a number of their own.

John Hawker: 1:04

In this episode, we'll discuss their individual career journeys to date and, ultimately, what led them to merge their talents and launch a joint venture. Bex and Amy each have an interesting tale to tell. We talk about their experience in education and the jobs they found straight out of it, as well as covering some of the more challenging situations they've found themselves in that would play a pivotal role in how they viewed their relationship with work moving forward. I also get their view on what it's been like setting up a business together, the importance of transparent communication, the value of being able to identify your strengths and weaknesses, and how their partners really feel about phones being out at the dinner table. This episode is a lesson in overcoming uncertainty, the realities of following a less conventional path and what it takes to develop the confidence to work for yourself. So, without further ado, let me introduce you to two people that specialize in crafting connections Probably why this episode's so bloody good Bex and Amy.

John Hawker: 1:57

I'm going to start with the opening question on the podcast, which is and I'll ask you, bex first- Okay.

John Hawker: 2:03

When you were younger. What did you want to be when you grew up?

Bex Hyde: 2:06

oh, I always knew what I wanted to be. I just wanted to be a fashion designer from as young as probably eight or nine. Wow, I was always really, really focused maybe too focused in hindsight, but my mum was a seamstress when we were little, so she used to make um, like ice skating costumes for like performers and stuff and she had a little studio at home and I'm one of four and the others weren't really interested, but I used to love it. I'd go up there and there'd be all the Swarovski crystals and always loved it. So she'd walk off and I'd try and sign her machine and totally fuck it up and she'd come up like who's been on my.

Bex Hyde: 2:55

So, yeah, very, very young I knew what I wanted to do.

John Hawker: 2:59

Yeah, awesome. And Amy, what about you?

Aimée Johnson: 3:02

Aside from probably being a bit deluded when I was really young and thinking that I could be like a dancer or something, like a backing dancer.

John Hawker: 3:10

Okay, which I don't know where I was going with that. What was the inspiration? Did you ever see anyone Was this watching, like I don't know, mtv or something? Yeah, probably.

Aimée Johnson: 3:19

And I did love dancing, but I never really wanted to be the main attraction. Yeah, but obviously you're still on a stage, so at that point you know people are looking at me. So then panic would set in. Yeah, but then probably from like you know, like teenage years and going to uni where I studied English, don't know why Just because it was just something to do and a degree to get. But, yeah, from that point, always wanted to work in fashion in some way, but I could never really figure out how, because it wasn't so obvious to me, like as it was with Bex, like it wasn't about, like, designing clothes or making them necessarily, it was just something in the world of fashion was that more because Bex maybe had a direct inspiration?

Aimée Johnson: 3:58

yeah, it could have been. Her mum was a seamstress and you didn't necessarily have that around. Yeah, I had no one around me that would sort of like that maybe suggested how I could work in fashion.

John Hawker: 4:07

You knew you liked clothes and fashion, but not how to make that an actual job.

Aimée Johnson: 4:10

Yeah, how to earn money from that, being like my industry. But yeah so I kind of fell into buying through Kirk actually my brother who. He went to uni with someone whose other half was working at Marks Spencer in buying in women's wear yeah and I was like, oh okay, cool, so a fashion job where I'm not actually designing clothes kind of combines a lot of different skills.

John Hawker: 4:34

But yeah, so, yeah, it's interesting because that was a such a straightforward answer to I knew what I wanted to be and subsequently went on to be um. That's probably the most straightforward answer that I've had, because most people have gone around the houses a bit or had some very.

Bex Hyde: 4:50

I've had marine biologists, I've had vet yeah, which neither of these people did then go on to be no, I think I just had my meltdown later yeah, well, there's meltdowns coming yeah, I really knew what I wanted to do, and then it all went to shit later when I was like, wait, I've always wanted to do this thing, and now I don't know if I love that, so what do I do now?

John Hawker: 5:14

yeah, that's an interesting one, because I'd.

Bex Hyde: 5:16

I was so focused that my career was very, very important to me at a very young age because I I knew that I wanted to go to London College of Fashion. That was, that was my goal. That's where I was going to go. And then I went there and I absolutely hated it, hated every single minute of it. Why? Because they had I'd been warned when I was at college because I did a fashion like BTEC and my lecturer was like that's it, london College Fashion? And she was like Bex, I don't know if it's the right fit for you, like I get that. You want to go there because of what it is, but I don't know how well you're going to get on there, because they very much like to mold their designers in a certain way and I don't know how well you're like that. What about Central Saint Martins?

Bex Hyde: 6:13

or like Bristol there and I was like no LCF and I was horrible. It was like that really old school fashion vibe as well, where they'd like you'd present and they'd rip up people's coursework in front of everyone. It was really quite brutal.

John Hawker: 6:35

Brutal is the word that's coming to mind.

Bex Hyde: 6:37

And they very much prioritised the international students. That was made exceptionally clear, like in in my class, um, 80 percent were international students, right um, and they had very much when I was there. There was a real aesthetic. They were going for a real like comme de garçon, ray Kawakubo, like sculptural aesthetic, and that just wasn't me as a diviner. I didn't want to play the game and you sort of had to, so I left after a year.

John Hawker: 7:18

So that warning that someone had given you was kind of on the nose, wasn't it? They saw something in you that knew in a way wasn't going to connect but you'd in the best possible way.

Bex Hyde: 7:27

They also knew that, that you were very headstrong and wanted to go and do that, yeah, was it the gravitas around yeah, the the place, it was pure ego I think I just wanted to be like that's the place that is the most well regarded as a that's where I want to go. It's going to make me the most well-regarded as a.

John Hawker: 7:43

That's where I want to go. That's going to make me the most credible when I go out into the world and start looking for actual jobs in that field.

Bex Hyde: 7:49

And then I just sort of ran away. I came home and I went back to Essex University where I went to college and I did a fashion, communication and marketing degree and I absolutely loved it Right, because I could touch all the other things. And then while I was there I set up my first brand, designing. So it was a weird concoction of things yeah it's a running theme.

John Hawker: 8:19

I speak to a lot of people that have a very clear idea what they want to do with their career and then they do it. And then, because you to scratch that itch, don't you? Unfortunately?

John Hawker: 8:26

you have to go a little way down that path to realise ah shit, this is not actually a thing I want to be doing, whilst there's still very strong ties to that original dream of I want to be a fashion designer and what you're doing now and the things that you've done over the course of your career. You have to do it over the course of your career. You have to do it. Unfortunately, you've got to go through it, you know. So get your war wounds and then come out the other side, hopefully a little closer and a bit more informed about where you want to go, definitely, and I've definitely had a few of those.

John Hawker: 8:54

We'll talk about that in a bit more detail. I'm going to take it back a couple of steps because I'm always interested about what people were like at school, because I think that shapes and informs maybe what you do go on to do or what you're told you can go on to do yeah, because.

John Hawker: 9:08

I'm a big focus on the career guidance because I always think about my career guidance. I had, I had a lot of inspiration around me in my mum working for herself and people in my life, but career guidance was just absolutely shocking. So I'll start with Amy. What I? We went to school together. You were a year, a school year below me but we weren't. I didn't particularly know you well. You were the sister of one of my best friends yeah, yeah um. What was school like for you? What was your experience?

Aimée Johnson: 9:33

I enjoyed school yeah um I the from an education point of view, I found it fairly straightforward. I think I'm someone that learns. I think that I lend myself to the system. That doesn't suit everyone, but it works fine for me. I don't know why. I guess maybe am I quite an academic person or something. I just found everything quite straightforward so I didn't struggle too much to just like tick the boxes and get the answers. I'm not saying I'm a huge whiz at everything.

John Hawker: 10:03

But you could take that information in and answer a question based on what you've learned.

Aimée Johnson: 10:06

Yeah, and I could also have a little chat with my friends and have fun and still kind of get to where I needed to be. And yeah, it was quite a relaxed sort of way of learning and school was just something you did.

John Hawker: 10:20

So what was the transition like? Did you go to college?

Aimée Johnson: 10:23

I did, yeah, and what was the transition?

John Hawker: 10:24

like Did you go to college? I did yeah, and what was the transition into college? Like yeah.

Aimée Johnson: 10:26

I enjoyed college. I enjoyed uni. I think I do enjoy learning stuff. I'm not so good at the social side of stuff. I'm not great at selling myself in a room full of people. So going from education and just having to write down the answers and get them right, and that was fine Into, you know, a work environment, into an office, where that's fine if you know what you're doing. But you need to let everyone else know that you know what you're doing.

John Hawker: 10:55

Yeah, was where I struggled, yeah, so I described that as advocating for yourself.

Bex Hyde: 10:59

Yeah, like banging the drum to say here I am Well, I'm terrible at that. I need to be valued, yeah Right.

Aimée Johnson: 11:05

I'm like come on, Amy, yeah, You've got this. Yeah, I'm really really bad at it. Which again?

John Hawker: 11:10

outside looking in. We'll go on. There'll be people that know just from your name what it is you do.

Aimée Johnson: 11:15

Yeah.

John Hawker: 11:16

Outside, looking in. No one would claim that you have that mindset or have, or have that view of yourself yeah, in my, in my personal opinion.

Bex Hyde: 11:23

It's a beauty of social media.

Aimée Johnson: 11:25

It's a bit of a contradiction isn't it? Yeah, it is yeah, and people would think why do you put pictures of yourself on the internet now if you don't think? Yeah, it's a weird combination, but I guess I'm in control of what I share, so that's fine, and I am obsessed with fashion. That's why I'm doing it, and it's a creative outlet.

Bex Hyde: 11:41

Yeah, it's, not's not. You're not a model. No, we have this conversation quite often because people are like oh, but you're models, we're like no, no, no we're not at all. The content that we share separately, although very different to each other, is about the overall aesthetic. It's about the product. It's not about us as no people if that makes sense, I do know what you mean.

John Hawker: 12:09

Yeah, because, because, maybe a model. If they're listening to this I don't know how many models we have listening to this podcast, but a model might counter that with. Well I'm, I may be doing the same thing, but in promoting themselves like posting pictures themselves, without necessarily thinking about a brand they're trying to promote or something. I I get that difference, but I'm just wondering what they might think of of hearing that, because, yeah, the dictionary definition you could argue is you're wearing something and you're and you're being photoed and you are the yeah for want of a better expression like the clothes horse if you're doing that you are the canvas yeah so, but I understand where you're coming from but it is interesting.

Bex Hyde: 12:46

But people do say that, don't they? They're like oh well, do you want a model for it? And I'm like, I'm not a model yeah like, but isn't that what you?

John Hawker: 12:54

do. Yeah, I'm like no, it's not what I do. Yeah, I put clothes on.

Bex Hyde: 12:58

Yeah, I make things out of metal and wear them. What do you?

John Hawker: 13:01

mean so golly becks, what was so, amy, just just to sort of, I guess, summarize your experience at school.

John Hawker: 13:08

School, let's say I, I spoke to andy, who we all know, and the last one and I use the, the term academic to describe, or not describe, him in a way and I thought I thought he found that quite jarring because I think it is a bit of an older, old school, maybe outdated term now academic or being book smart, yes, and I don't think it's as pl of an old school, maybe outdated term there, academic or being book smart? Yes, and I don't think it's as plaudit as it used to be, no, but it sounds, if we can use it, that you were quite academic at school college into university doing English and now doing what you're doing. There are obviously benefits from doing English but, it's not a direct.

John Hawker: 13:40

You've not directly benefited from that.

Aimée Johnson: 13:50

And I you've not directly benefited from that, and I think maybe that's part of the reason why it's taken a little while to find where I think I fit or where I feel comfortable, because you're like, these creative skills aren't sort of encouraged at school really, unless you're putting pen to paper.

Aimée Johnson: 13:58

You, you're an artist, you're drawing, you know in very like this if you've got loads of creative stuff going on in your mind about whatever it may be fashion, interiors, you know any of those things. You don't really get a chance to exercise that through education.

Aimée Johnson: 14:14

So that's that was my like yearning, that's what why I was like obsessed with fashion I was. I must work in it in some way. But you know that none of that's ever discussed at school, in school years. It's just, you know, if you put pen to paper, then you're arty or you're creative, but you can't, you don't discover that you're creative in any other way really, and I also think it was quite unattainable, like I had that a lot people like you need to have realistic expectations you're not going to be a fashion designer yeah, which seems crazy now, because I'm like well, of course you can, because they need designers all over the world

Bex Hyde: 14:47

yeah, but I not from my immediate family. But I remember my auntie once being that I'd done all these drawings and these designs. Mum was like show, show auntie and I showed her and she was like I mean, they're lovely, but you're never going to make it as a designer. People just don't do that. Why don't you try and do accounts or something? And I was like sorry, barely add up.

John Hawker: 15:11

Well, I think this is going back to the career guidance and the expectations that were around us because we're all similar ages. So going into that at that time yeah, college for me, coming out of doing A-levels, it was're gonna like you've got a couple of options you can go into the city and work in an office or you can go and learn a trade that was really it, like no one was opening your eyes to.

John Hawker: 15:31

I look at what some people do for a living now and I'm like why did no one tell me that was a route I could have gone? Down and there is there is no age that you. You can't follow that, but it's a hell of a lot easier if I'm doing it at 19 20, then 37 and yeah, and not having two kids yeah, exactly so gonna bex. What was your experience at school? Like um.

Bex Hyde: 15:52

I struggled at school um in what way?

Bex Hyde: 15:55

so I was quite a sickly, sickly kid. I had quite a autoimmune, really bad asthma and when I was at primary school I really, really struggled because I you wouldn't realise it now because I'm a loud mouth but I was very shy and I was quite ill. So at primary school I'd just be like, oh, I don't feel well, and they'd be like, okay, just go and sit in the corner. And I'd sit in the corner, in the book corner, and I'd just be like, oh, I don't feel well, and they would be like, okay, just go and sit in the corner.

John Hawker: 16:28

And I'd sit in the corner in the book corner and I'd suck my thumb.

Bex Hyde: 16:29

Yeah, and I couldn't get like too cold because it would play my asthma up so that so I wouldn't go out and play with the other kids, and so it was getting quite bad and my mum was getting really, really cross with the school and they were like you have to make her do it. She's like seven, eight and she can't read.

John Hawker: 16:46

Yeah, like and she can't write like you've got to.

Bex Hyde: 16:50

You need to stop doing it. You have to make her they were sort of appeasing, appeasing you.

John Hawker: 16:56

They were like oh, bex is saying this, rather than trying to coerce you into actually getting me involved like 35 kids I guess, and it was easier to just I wasn't trouble.

Bex Hyde: 17:07

I'd sit in the corner quietly and they'd probably forget I was there, um.

Bex Hyde: 17:12

So I started having a private tutor because my mum was like this just isn't, we need to do something about this um, and I got on really, really well with her on a sort of a one-to-one basis. So on the back of that, my parents definitely weren't affluent by any stretch then, but they they sent me to a private school where my um tutor worked, because my mum and dad thought I'd be better in a much smaller group where I had I couldn't be invisible really, and that was the making of me, because it really I couldn't hide, I couldn't get away with not doing it and I was really overwhelmed, I think, by I was not an academic at all and the class size and the personalities and all that sort of thing and I very much retreated in myself and going to my school really brought it out of me. But I definitely wouldn't say that I did okay. I did better in things like art and textiles, obviously, but it was quite hard for me and I'm not good in an exam situation.

Bex Hyde: 18:32

I found that very, very hard. But then I think I loved college when I was actually doing what I wanted to do, but I'd sit in maths or science. Actually, I liked science because I had a really good teacher, but my maths teacher was awful. And she had the most monotone voice and I just used to fall asleep, so you get to the end of your time at private school.

John Hawker: 19:05

So you've gone from eight. Nine years old were you at that time?

Bex Hyde: 19:07

yeah, transition to that, and then you did that all the way through secondary school yeah, so I actually this is very me, but everyone was sitting there 11 plus and I was like, absolutely not, I don't want to do it right and my parents are very like that. They're like it's on your terms, like my older sister did, my brother and my younger sister did and went on to grammar schools. I just was not. I did not want to put myself in that position, so I just didn't do it.

Bex Hyde: 19:33

I just wanted to stay there yeah um, which was which was good for me. I think it really built my confidence and my personality to actually be a bit braver. And mum and dad sent me to like drama school, like at the weekends, and like summer camps, which, like was so out of my comfort zone. But I think I hold that very much now. I think that has really, really helped me and there were some elocution lessons which haven't quite saved with me.

Bex Hyde: 20:08

The Essex accent is very there's nothing wrong with that it's very there um, but I I think that really helped me to like be able to present in like meetings and like hold my own ground where if you saw me at seven or eight, you wouldn't believe this.

John Hawker: 20:32

This is, I guess this is the the concern listening to that seven and eight and I've got a six-year-old or soon to be six-year-old. So I think I mean he sounds, from your description of yourself, like the opposite, like he's. If anything, he needs to tone it down. But, um, you know, if that hadn't been identified by your mum, you could have very easily yeah been lost in the system and and yeah who, who knows what that could have led to yeah, and my mum's yeah was definitely my advocate.

Bex Hyde: 21:01

Where she was, she was up the school all the time like this just isn't this just isn't right and I'm incredibly lucky that I had someone like that fighting for me?

John Hawker: 21:10

yeah, where are you in? So you've got siblings, so you're one of four yeah where, where are you?

Bex Hyde: 21:15

third I'm third.

John Hawker: 21:16

Yeah, okay, so yeah I guess your mum had a bit of practice maybe see seeing a couple of older siblings go through processes and was able to do that. I'm trying to think of the cliche that people use. I think it's like your first child or your first couple of children grow up with you and then you actually raise your second and third child, oh okay.

John Hawker: 21:38

Yeah, because you as a parent and I can attest to this like my youngest is going to grow up a much more rounded individual than my oldest, because he's going to have all the issues that I had and my mum's very vocal about that actually because, she was like god.

Bex Hyde: 21:52

When we had your sister, who was my the eldest, she was like we were, like we tried so hard to have her, she took so long and then she came and she screamed for five years and we were like what is going?

Bex Hyde: 22:07

on like trying to figure it out, and whereas I think and she says that she was so over precious of her, right yeah, she's like I think I was just like we tried so hard for you and then you were here and I I was so worried about her like falling over or like anything, and by the time we've had four, she's like you'll be all right, my mom's so like that.

John Hawker: 22:32

Now she's like you'll be, have a bath yeah, it's the romanticized view of what parenthood is going to be like. And then the first one comes and you're like, oh shit, this reality is is different. Yeah, that's a nice way of describing it. Okay, interesting, right? So I'm gonna start with you and me from the moment you leave uni yeah your first job.

John Hawker: 22:51

Yeah, give me like a whistle stop tour that takes us to the point of where you meet becks and don't talk about what you've found in your next venture, but get me there, okay, yeah, okay so I, I left uni and got I.

Aimée Johnson: 23:06

Well, I interned at M&S, which was through my brother and someone he knew, and I kind of fell into the world of buying in women's wear, which. I loved and I was like, oh wow, I can work in fashion. But there's so much going on in this business, like you know, in in this sort of skill set and I kind of found somewhere where I thought, yeah, I could really stick with this. Annoyingly, I couldn't get a job there, I didn't have a vacancy, so I fell into homeware, in M&S still.

Aimée Johnson: 23:33

So they took me on. So, straight out of uni, I'm now a buying assistant right at the bottom, where you start, and in homeware, which was fine. I was still interested in it. I was still interested in it, I was still working with textiles.

John Hawker: 23:45

I was still learning all the skills.

Aimée Johnson: 23:46

There's synergy, isn't there, between fashion and homeware, I was still developing product and learning all the skills that you need as a buyer and M&S. You know, in the head office it was a great place to start and to learn. You know, you're really nurtured there and I got to travel loads and I kind of just worked my way up um and never left home where, which I was fine with because I was getting a pay rise.

Aimée Johnson: 24:09

and then you know, going somewhere else, climbing the ladder making good friends and enjoying it, um, and obviously, living my life at the weekends how you want to, because you're starting to earn a bit of money still were you living at home at this time as well?

Aimée Johnson: 24:20

yeah, and then I would say after about five, six years, I thought you know what I'm, the fashion thing's never going to leave me like how I just I need to get back over into that and I just struggled, I couldn't. I don't know why it just you know, you had your experience now and it was in homeware and I don't. It was made to be.

Aimée Johnson: 24:38

You get pigeonholed in that industry very easily, but there's so many transferable skirts, it's really not you know and depending on what company you work for, you're not necessarily buying what you love or what you know. You have to apply the buying mindset and look at commerciality of everything. If I'm doing that for cushions and rugs and curtains, I can do it for handbags and do it for something you actually feel inspired.

Aimée Johnson: 25:01

By and I mean I was commuting every day into London and sitting on my phone and Instagram was becoming a thing and I was watching all these girls in these clothes and outfits and like, oh, that's what I want to do. And then I'd get to the office and look at cushions and stuff.

John Hawker: 25:18

It was fine but I was like I don't know, Not knocking cushions. Yeah, we love a cushion.

Aimée Johnson: 25:25

We knocking cushions. Yeah, we love a cushion. But yeah, I was talking about cushions a lot and I was like, oh, I just want to talk about, you know, dresses instead, um, but anyway, it kind of was, the crossover wasn't happening and it would sort of go to the back of my mind. I left M&S and went to a few smaller companies. Um, because you do kind of get stuck a little bit when you're of a certain age, I'd got, I'd moved up quite quickly, but I was never going to be a buyer at m&s at the age of 27, 28, and is that because the hierarchy or the structure I think so yeah, okay people.

John Hawker: 25:51

It's time served. Almost you've got people above you.

Aimée Johnson: 25:54

Unless they leave or die, yeah, you're not going to put the time in and they're, you know, 40 and you're gonna have to stay where you are for another 10 years all the while you're covering for that buyer a lot, because they may have had children by now or you know, and they're sick and so you're getting to do all these great things. And I traveled when sometimes I was an assistant buyer, so I shouldn't have, but you're almost you're. You have to be grateful for that, because yeah, we give, we're giving you some opportunities and it is great.

Aimée Johnson: 26:20

But then you think, well, I'm not being paid, you know, and I'm never going to get that promotion for like a decade interesting um. So I went to a few smaller companies. Um, still, furniture, home accessories, lighting, all that kind of stuff. Um, and with the industry? Well, with the internet landing and everyone's saying, you know everyone's gonna be shopping online, no one's gonna go into a store anymore. Well, that was fine for clothes and you know, women were starting to shop online all the time, but that will never happen when it comes to homewear.

John Hawker: 26:48

And furniture was the mindset like that is the industry mantra, almost yeah, and that's where it was going, don't worry about it.

Aimée Johnson: 26:55

No, we need this massive showroom on tottenham court road. That's where all the budget needs to go don't worry about the internet, um, but of course we buy everything online a mattress, a sofa, even if it's bespoke you, you're happy to buy it off, you're not.

John Hawker: 27:08

Everyone is but it is oh, for the most part. Were you? Were you toeing the line, though, or did you know? Did you have a feeling that this evolution was coming? It's hard to, because you're in an echo chamber. Yeah, I'm not sure.

Aimée Johnson: 27:20

Going back, and and also because my mind was so still in the fashion world and that's where I wanted to get to, I'd be like, yeah, cool if you say that about a sofa or a wardrobe, fine and then off. I go to order what I'm wearing that weekend, because that's, that's what we were all doing then. Um, but because of that and the smaller companies that I was in, neglecting that side, you know, a lot of them went under and I was made redundant twice in three years. Right.

Aimée Johnson: 27:45

With long periods in between then struggling to get back into a buying job. Okay, and that's where things kind of went south for me in terms of confidence.

John Hawker: 27:57

How old were you then, amy? If you don't know what I'm, saying 29, 30.

Aimée Johnson: 28:01

Okay, yeah.

John Hawker: 28:02

I guess and that's an age age I think it's important to say for the most part, most people, when they're approaching 30, feel like I should have my shit together by now. Is it when you start to feel that? Societal pressure of oh, I should be part way up that career that I thought I would be going down 100%.

Bex Hyde: 28:18

Yeah, mine's changed in like around the end as well. Yeah, I should have this figured out? Yeah, I haven't.

Aimée Johnson: 28:26

Yeah, and I was going through horrible processes of like trying to get back into buying, putting together these amazing presentations for their collection and going to three or four interviews you know, till they decided at the end they were going to go with someone else. And they make you put so much work in it would break my heart and I'd be in tears and I probably reacted. You know, maybe that's dramatic to other people, but that rejection I really, really struggled with that.

John Hawker: 28:51

I can empathise with that definitely.

Aimée Johnson: 28:53

And every time it was just such a massive knock. So in between I was doing other jobs, you know locally, and just minimum wage stuff.

John Hawker: 29:02

Getting the money in?

Aimée Johnson: 29:03

Yeah, and then, start to feel even lousier about yourself because you're like why am I doing this? Like you know, three years ago I was flying around india and having all these amazing meetings and presenting to people you know and feeling important yes, um validation yeah but that's I.

Aimée Johnson: 29:19

I that's how I'd got to that point and how I felt, you know I should. That's where I should be. What am I doing now? Um, and then I fell into an awful, awful job, um, which was in buying interiors homewares again, but not, it wasn't sort of like a high street brand, um, and it was. It was horrendous. I hated it and it was yeah it it. That was kind of like the last straw. It was quite a salesy environment.

Aimée Johnson: 29:47

Um, I developed a lot of anxiety because I was like this is the only job that I've been offered in the last few years in in the buying world, in the world that I want to be in. But it turns out I didn't really. Yeah, um, and so I just had this. I just had anxiety every morning that I was going to lose this job and I can't afford to lose this job. It's the only one I've been offered. I'm not good enough to do anything else. No one else wanted me type mentality. And, lo and behold, they didn't want to pass my probation period because they thought you lack confidence, you don't speak up in meetings, and I'm like, yeah, no shit.

John Hawker: 30:16

I'm terrified.

Aimée Johnson: 30:17

I don't know what's happened to me yeah, I don't know what's happened to me, but I'm on edge'm not eating, I want to cry every morning when I get on the train. So, yeah, after a few chats with my other half and my parents and everything, they were like I was like but I have to do it. And they were like you don't have to do it, Just walk in tomorrow and quit. And I was like, okay, yeah, I guess I could do that. So I quit, and this was like January 2020. And I was like I'm just going to take a few months, see what comes to me. And then the pandemic hit. Yeah, it was enough for me.

Aimée Johnson: 30:53

Yeah, that takes me to a few more jobs like low-key stuff locally, and then starting my Instagram doing something that I love, just for fun to see what happened, and then fast forward a couple of years of still doing that and then Bex being like sorry. What are you doing? Because we need to do something together. There you go, I'm finished.

John Hawker: 31:10

Do you know what that's perfect timing? Don't be silly, it's fine and it's a really difficult task to try and do a whistle-stop tour of it but thank you for that and thank you for sharing in a very concise time scale. Bex no, yeah, beck's no pressure. Um, no, look, you take your time and uh, don't tell me that. But yeah, talk to me then. So, um, you decided, so you touched upon part of what you did, but take me back, yeah, um.

Bex Hyde: 31:34

so while I was um at uni, I'd I'd worked as soon as I could. So from the age of 13, 14, I had a weekend job. So when I was at uni I was working in retail, I was working in Miss Selfridge, and then I just wanted to do something cooler.

John Hawker: 31:57

I wasn't really a Miss Selfridge girl. A bit edgier. Is edgier the right word for?

Bex Hyde: 32:00

you. She's so edgy.

Bex Hyde: 32:11

But I did love the salesy part of of it but it just wasn't for me. And I heard of I've always been obsessed with vintage and old things and rummaging and I heard of someone that I loosely knew had a vintage company and he sold on um ebay. And I just reached out to him and said you know if you need any help and he was like, yeah, great, we just need someone to do the listings, like you can do it from home. We pay you per piece, um, but it'd be great to have someone with a fashion so that we're like using the right keywords and whatever because, ebay was huge then for vintage.

Bex Hyde: 32:43

You could make really, really good money um, so I started doing that and it it was great I was earning more money um, because I could speed through these listings and I loved it.

John Hawker: 32:55

Pay per item, you can just exactly turn it out.

Bex Hyde: 32:58

With all due respect, but you can, yeah, yeah, and I've always been, quite always been a grafter. I've always wanted to just like work and get shit done.

Aimée Johnson: 33:08

She's a get shit done girl.

John Hawker: 33:09

Yeah, nice.

Aimée Johnson: 33:11

I'm a think about it for too long girl, but I probably do shit quick.

Bex Hyde: 33:16

I'm like go go go, let's go, and then we're like it's too much, it's too much.

John Hawker: 33:22

It's a good balance, then, from the sound of it.

Bex Hyde: 33:28

So there was. I asserted myself a little bit more and I started helping out with like um taking shots of the products and we'd get models in and I'd style them. And then I started um helping him to source good. So I'd go to the rag yards and we'd select things and be like, oh, this is a trend that's coming through, let's try and find this or find that. Um and he was obsessed with getting into top shop at the time right and to sell vintage in oxford circus.

Bex Hyde: 33:57

But they were tied into a a long-standing contract with peekaboo vintage so it just wasn't going to be an option. So I said, well, I can sew, I might as well use this. Why don't we just make a really small collection where we just, you know, switch some back pockets and do?

Bex Hyde: 34:17

and it's a bit of a loophole in um, vintage, but not exactly so, and that wasn't really a thing then. Um, so I made a little collection on my little domestic sewing machine and he was like, yeah, great, let's. I learned so much from him, james, because he was a real. He came from a buying background, but he was a real marketer, so everything was always like what's the story? Why are we doing?

John Hawker: 34:49

it? How are we?

Bex Hyde: 34:49

gonna? How are we gonna make these top shop buyers who have absolutely no idea who we are? How are we gonna make them notice? This yeah, understood so we came up with this idea to do like a missing carton, you know, like in america, where you get like the missing children so we sent them this like handmade milk carton with, like there's a missing parcel, and they had to fight.

Bex Hyde: 35:13

I mean, it's hilarious now that you think they, these buyers actually went to do this, but they did that's brilliant and they went to find the box and the box had all the samples in and we made these like handmade brownies that had like icing, that had the branding all over them, that's so cool.

John Hawker: 35:30

Yeah, people are going to be listening to that and stealing that idea again. That's going to come back in.

Bex Hyde: 35:35

That was all james it was. It was brilliant. And then my little handmade things and they were like yep, great, you've, you've got oxford circus and let's just see how it goes what a win wow but then we were like, fuck, I've just got a domestic sewing machine. It's just me, wow, I'm at uni, and so it was just me, like this is all still while you're at uni.

John Hawker: 35:58

At this point too, I'm still at uni, yeah, nice.

Aimée Johnson: 36:00

Bex and this is the ragged priest.

Bex Hyde: 36:03

The ragged priest yeah, and that and that's how it was brought. It was always the ragged priest, but it was the new evolution of that yeah yeah, um, and it just got busier.

Bex Hyde: 36:13

So we had to get other seamstresses involved and I was still at uni. So I had certain days and it was really intense. Um, and then the timing was quite good because I just finished uni and I was full-time at ragged, it had grown, we had we were in a few different top shops. And then the timing was quite good because I'd just finished uni and I was full-time at Ragged, it had grown, we were in a few different top shops, much bigger space, and then Rihanna bought a pair of the shorts in Topshop and wore them to Coachella. Oh, my God, and it was mental.

Bex Hyde: 36:44

It was a mental time In my life.

John Hawker: 36:46

I'm going to interject Just quickly.

Bex Hyde: 36:47

Yeah.

John Hawker: 36:47

So what year is this? Because Rihanna, so a celebrity Buying a pair of shorts Before the advent of Social Wouldn't have meant so much, unless they've been Papped in them, maybe, and then they're in the Newspaper.

Bex Hyde: 36:58

I don't know how it's got to have been.

John Hawker: 37:00

I've been 12, 13 years old, because I'm just trying to think, yeah, because that's a hell of a lot of focus on that, without necessarily, I guess, instagram wasn't at its height.

Bex Hyde: 37:09

No, but it was very much like Daily Mail.

John Hawker: 37:12

Okay, yeah, that's what I've got in my head.

Bex Hyde: 37:14

Yeah, it was very much that, and they're like Rhianna's wearing these really affordable shorts, which you can get.

John Hawker: 37:21

And I say she bought them, you can get, and I say, she bought them?

Bex Hyde: 37:23

She probably didn't.

John Hawker: 37:24

But she's wearing them.

Bex Hyde: 37:25

Yeah.

Aimée Johnson: 37:26

Yeah, same. Someone put her in them, or someone.

Bex Hyde: 37:30

They took them from the floor and whatever. And then, yeah, she wore them on the stage with Coachella and she was shot so many times with, like Snoop Dogg and a massive joint in them, oh wow, and like, like all these, like with Katy Perry and all in these shorts In terms of product placement.

John Hawker: 37:48

that is the dream, isn't it? And she?

Bex Hyde: 37:51

continued to wear them.

John Hawker: 37:52

Wow.

Bex Hyde: 37:53

So a few other like moments when she was like packed wearing them. And well, the collection sold out overnight in store and we were hand studying these shorts. So, like everyone I knew was studying shorts because we just couldn't cope with demand, um, and it was amazing but crazy. And then we did our first trade show in Berlin where we made this insane stand and we had a queue. At bread and butter trade show we had a queue going to the back of the room for this tiny little like we couldn't like. There were queues to take orders but the problem was we were making them from vintage Levi's.

John Hawker: 38:35

So trying to find enough of it trying to get them made.

Bex Hyde: 38:40

It was. It was crazy. And and then we got sued by Levi's, did you, yeah? Or attempted to get sued by Levi's for using their products, and we were given an ultimatum you send us every item of Levi's stock that you have. You cease using them, and I think we had to pay a bit of a penalty. Always hate you to court, wow.

John Hawker: 39:08

Wow, that's really turned, hasn't it? Yeah, really, what a story.

Bex Hyde: 39:11

Oh it was. I think it was horrendous, like it was really scary.

John Hawker: 39:18

I'm going to interject because now I'm fascinated by this. You are someone that has known you wanted to work in fashion from eight, nine years old. Do you feel, when you've got this, when you know that rihanna's worn a pair of the shorts that you've made and then gone on to like this spiraling kind of height? Is that the point where you feel like is there an element of you that thinks I made it?

Bex Hyde: 39:37

no there wasn't any part of that I'd, I was proud of myself and I was. This is really cool what we've done. But I'm not really like that person. I don't think that's like oh, this is good and that's proven itself, like over and over again for me, because I'm like keep chasing what's next or what's maybe I speak to a lot of people like that.

John Hawker: 40:04

I think I'm probably like that. I think I'm probably like that as well. I just feel, maybe, if you, maybe, if, if you, as an adult, were telling the eight-year-old you do, you know, one day rihanna's gonna, or like some you know international superstars gonna be wearing your clothes. They probably would have thought yeah, that sounds good.

John Hawker: 40:18

That's like top of the mountain for me that sounds pretty cool.

Bex Hyde: 40:21

I don't know that I was particularly celebrity driven okay, don't get me wrong. Incredibly grateful pretty fucking cool. Great, it was a great accomplishment rihanna, if you're listening, I love you.

John Hawker: 40:33

You're right, we'll help with your branding but I I wouldn't say that like.

Bex Hyde: 40:40

My focus to be a designer was for celebrities to wear it.

John Hawker: 40:43

Understood.

Bex Hyde: 40:44

Yeah, it was like creating beautiful and cool products, so it was a big win, okay, and I loved it. But yeah.

John Hawker: 40:55

So top of the mountain, let's say yeah. Ish.

Bex Hyde: 41:02

By others. You know, externally it could have been viewed like that.

John Hawker: 41:04

I'm not Chanel sadly, but to then come crashing down from this lawsuit. How do you recover from that? What's next for you? It was really tough.

Bex Hyde: 41:12

One thing I will say about me, which is why I think I always love vintage and the reworked thing, is I love solving a problem. I'm actually better when I'm under a lot of pressure and I need to think myself out of a situation brutal. It sounds like I'm not saying it's good for my health or my mental well-being, but I do like that, which is why I always like to rework vintage because, you've got this garment and you're like, right, there's this trend or there's this something else.

Bex Hyde: 41:43

How do I turn this crusty old, skanky shirt into whatever this is? Yeah, and I've always loved that. Right, I'm less like I'm going to draw this lovely drawing source, this beautiful fabric, although I do like that too.

Bex Hyde: 41:57

I like the problem solving element of that so when things got very dark and it was really really hard um, I sort of thrive in that situation and then I was young and the stress didn't have quite as big, oh, I didn't realize it was having as big a impact as it maybe was and and the the two owners were just destroyed, like they just didn't know what to do. It was obviously huge, like they'd had a lot of personal investment. There was a lot of like house guarantee, you know, like to underpin how fast the company had grown so quickly, and then to potentially lose it all. And I was there like right hand.

Bex Hyde: 42:49

So we were all in these meetings together like what do we do? Um, and I was like we just recreate the levi's, but we create, let's make. We know when we get thousands and thousands and thousands of pairs of these jeans that a big chunk of them don't fit right and we have to throw them away. Let's just produce our own jeans that we can order in big quantities and we can turn them into 30 different styles, because we can cut them ourselves, we can sell them as jeans, we can dye them pink, we can stud them. We only have to buy one lot and we make the fit, the dream fit of the 100 pairs that we find that are perfect right, yeah so that's what we set about doing.

Bex Hyde: 43:34

We started actually, but no one had done it before. I didn't done it before either so we were like right, we've got to find factories, we've got to source the right denim. We've got to find factories, we've got to source the right denim. We've got to like do CAD packs? We need to do fit testing, we need to like, because they needed a fashion buyer.

John Hawker: 43:51

Yeah, that's what they needed. They needed to meet earlier, but it didn't happen. Then we weren't.

Aimée Johnson: 43:57

Yeah, the farms weren't intertwining.

Bex Hyde: 43:59

So that's what we did, and it came around. So that's what we did and it came around. And then we started producing more in factories and doing less vintage, and then Ragged became not vintage at all and then I set up another brand for them to sell to ASOS and Urban Outfitters.

John Hawker: 44:18

What brand is it? Can you mention the brands? Yeah?

Bex Hyde: 44:21

So Milk, it was the brand that we created for ASOS. So we had a really close relationship with the asos team and I loved them then and they were like bex, we, we just we love ragged now and we think it's really cool, but we feel like we're missing that thing and I was like, be fine, I'll make it for you I'll go, just I'll go um.

John Hawker: 44:40

You said then you love the asos team.

Bex Hyde: 44:42

Then oh, only because I'm sure they're all lovely now, but I don't know them.

John Hawker: 44:47

Fine, okay, okay, I didn't know if there was another story that you wanted to tell. No, no, no.

Bex Hyde: 44:51

There was a really strong buying team that we worked with then and I had a really good relationship with them. So, they trusted us a lot to be like we've got this gap. Can you do it for us? Because we'd rather work with you and we're. And that's what we did. And then we did the same for urban outfitters. And, yeah, not many people could cope with that volume of vintage but, we could, but it was.

Bex Hyde: 45:19

It was tough because you're like, you know, urban are like we won 800 vintage orange sweatshirts. We're like cool, they're gonna be like 60 different shades of orange and they're like no, they need to be the same. You're like it doesn't work like that so there was a lot to like navigate. Now the retailers are much more set up to do that, but then they weren't really.

Bex Hyde: 45:44

And we'd, you know, we had all sorts like leather jackets that we find found hypodermic needles sewn into the, you know like mad stuff because you're you're buying vintage or like we'd sell some shorts and leather shorts that someone hadn't checked the crutch properly and they'd be, you know, because it's yeah, like they were someone else's yeah, and we're like but this is a dream for someone like james who wants to tell a story I'll let him uh I'll let him. Come on and he can tell something we might need to do a calling bit on the edit.

John Hawker: 46:19

I think you can just have a little james, I love you.

Aimée Johnson: 46:21

I'm sorry, here's your shorts and here's the story.

Bex Hyde: 46:25

Um, yeah, and then things were getting a bit. I'd been there for a long time, me and James.

Bex Hyde: 46:33

I love, love, love, love him, but we clashed heads a lot um, and I was the sort of in-between of the finance and it was tough at times and the stress was really taking its toll on me. And then I got headhunted by someone else to come and have a chat, which I did, and they offered me to come and work for them. They'd fund the team and I could create whatever brand I wanted to. And I did Right. And that was really, really hard because I had to hand in my notice and it was very emotional because we were a family and everyone cried. I had these two grown men who I loved and respected and cared a lot about, like in tears. I was in tears, like all my best friends worked there, but I felt like it was time, so I did. And then I created a brand, built a team and sold it to asos. Then they were like well, what about what you did for us there? Could we create some different brands with you guys?

Bex Hyde: 47:58

because I'd basically gone to work for a jewelry supplier right who supplied everyone, from marx and spencers to misguided to all of arcadia, mother care. They did everyone, but they wanted to get into clothing, which is why they brought me on right um and asos were like there's a really big opportunity here to cross over into like jewelry and accessories and clothing and you've got the infrastructure to be able to support it. Because that was a massive problem, for they wanted to bring in these indie brands but the indie brands couldn't cope with it's, the supply of it isn't it.

John Hawker: 48:36

Yeah, yeah, you can have the brand, but you need to deliver as well exactly, um.

Bex Hyde: 48:41

So I went there. I created about six or seven within a very short space of time. Yep. I then got promoted to be associate wholesale director with my merch head. We were running a London office.

Bex Hyde: 49:10

We were covering all of the wholesale um and I'm quite good in the sales meeting, so it worked quite well for me, um, and I worked my way up very, very quick and then I was like right, I'm on this, now I want to, I want to be on the board, I want to get to director. And I did within three years of being there it was the youngest they'd ever had um, no one knew had come into the business and done anything like that really. And I got to creative director and I sat on the board and I was like god, this is shit. Um, why?

John Hawker: 49:54

why was it shit? Just not just didn't match the expectations of what you had, I think what it would look like problem for me was I.

Bex Hyde: 50:02

I am financially driven to a certain aspect and I also want to really enjoy what I do. The further I got up, yes, the money got better, the perks got better, but I got further and further away from the job yeah, the engagement in actually what you're doing day-to-day in the process my job was having a meeting every 45 minutes, from the minute I got into the office to the minute I left, signing off other people's ranges and not building them and not building them and it's just tearing other people and feel like I was nicer than that sorry um, but, but having to be critical of other people's?

Bex Hyde: 50:42

yeah, and it was a lot of HR and budgets and I went through three sets of redundancies, like making people redundant, and it killed me, absolutely killed me, especially towards the end, at the. At the beginning, the redundancy that was happening made business sense and I could, morally and ethically. There were some things that happened later which I felt like weren't fair, yeah they went against your moral compass, maybe a little bit, or like not, because they actually did anything wrong, but I felt like these people were maybe paying the price for having a clear strategy from things being from them trying to do crazy business things or create these brands with like massive store rollouts.

Bex Hyde: 51:40

I had huge imposter syndrome being on that board because I'm like I don't these pnls, I just don't understand half the time like I'm sitting in these. I'm like I just want to make things that cool, I just want to like market. I don't really like and I was privy to stuff that maybe I wasn't. It just it just wasn't great for me. I started to. I was traveling a lot. I was traveling about 10 times a year. I was going to China four or five times a year. I'd be away for two or three weeks at a time. Um spend a lot of time in Asia, india. It was taking its toll on me personally, traveling that much, and also my home life my family life.

Bex Hyde: 52:27

Um, and I was, you know, like you were saying. I wasn't eating, I was like losing weight left, right and centre. I was emotional all the time and I started to really, really struggle and they started to put the pressure on more and more and then I had a bit of a breakdown, I think, and they knew, I think, that they'd pushed me too hard and I negotiated my way out and they were amazing, and they let me, and they let me take my brand with me. Wow.

Bex Hyde: 53:08

Which is amazing. But part of that process, you know know, I had to make two of my best friends redundant, one of them who was pregnant. It was like it was a really, really dark, dark time for me and I left and I just was like this is all I've wanted to do and I just didn't know what to do with myself because I was like I was so focused on being design, I was so focused on this, I wanted to get to director and I've just fucked it up. I like didn't have the staying power, I wasn't tough enough, which I've done a lot of work on, and I realize now that it's not that I wasn't tough enough, it's that I wasn't invested in what they were trying to do and it I was struggling with my own moral, which was why I was finding it so hard.

Bex Hyde: 53:55

My body was saying this isn't, yeah, this is not you, but but it took me quite a long time. I just felt like a total fuck up for a long time after that and I'd also I'd have you know, people would see me flying all over the world and doing and they're like oh, my god, you've got this, this massive career. And I was working in a coffee shop. Andy's coffee shop is the best thing ever um he said.

Aimée Johnson: 54:23

He said the same himself we're so different, bex and I, but there are so many similarities. You can tell from the things.

John Hawker: 54:33

Yeah, there's a lot of synergy between your stories and from and again, I I empathize with that situation and again, this view from the outside, looking in that you've got it, you've, you're achieving what most people would really aspire to do yeah, and it's kind of like well, no, but it, but it is, it's like, um, and it feels like, no, but it.

John Hawker: 54:51

But it is, it's like, and it feels like a privilege, doesn't it? And then to turn it back on that you do have the element of that, that I don't know the conversation with yourself, which is why are you doing this? Why can't you handle?

Bex Hyde: 55:05

that shit I know. And that Also. Like we said, I've always been a grafter. I've always had like eight things on at once and I was suddenly at home like what the fuck, do I do now.

Bex Hyde: 55:19

I'm like I just need to do something. I couldn't just sit at home. I was like Andy, do you need some help? And he was like, yeah, all right, you're my mate, we could just hang out all day. And I was like this would be great. And it got me out the house, it got me grafted and that's what I wanted to do. I just wanted to work. I like couldn't be in my own heads that much um, and then I was. I was trying to do freelance.

Bex Hyde: 55:44

That had sort of built up a little bit and then COVID hit and it all went to shit um, I hadn't been self-employed long, long enough to get any support at all, so things were sketchy for us at home as well, because we were both self-employed. Um, so I was like, well, I've got this brand. That's got a bit of a following. I'm just gonna try and hustle. So I started buying vintage and selling it on instagram stories during covid and it went insane. I would do like four or five grand at the weekend wow on a sunday, sitting in bed selling vintage.

John Hawker: 56:23

It was just the dream it was insane.

Bex Hyde: 56:26

Yeah, it was like mental ed would be like can you just put your phone down, go to bed. I'm like it's another order, um, and so, yeah, then I think that gave me a bit more confidence. And then I started making things and selling them on there and then started shooting more on myself, which I'd never been like front of camera, but I had to do it. It was COVID, you couldn't shoot it on anyone else, so it forced me to do that and at first it would just be my head would be cut out, and then like, gradually, more and more, um, yeah, and then I started doing more freelance styling and I started doing more of the like the brand strategy things. And then last year was my experimental year where I was just like I'm just gonna get myself out of my comfort zone and do some other things trying to get myself out of this sort of funk and lack

Bex Hyde: 57:20

of self-confidence, which I definitely still had. And then, like tail end of last year, maybe sort of September, October, I got headhunted to go back to do a creative director role for a large alternative fashion company and I was like, wow, I'm still like relevant, this is insane and it. It was lovely because they were like there's only about three people in the UK that can do what you do, um, and we're talking to two of them and it was amazing. I loved it.

Bex Hyde: 57:56

It gave me a bit of confidence that I still felt like actually they want I can't do this but I was like, do I want to go back to be doing? There's a lot. I was scared of the all the other side of I'd always said I wouldn't go back, but having this lovely salary put in front of you and this, but you're mindful of those battle scars.

John Hawker: 58:17

you picked up mental health-wise how that affected you. Yeah, so I was really like I don't know what to do.

Bex Hyde: 58:24

I don't know what to do Like this. I mean, it'd be lovely for our family to have this support, but I'm also going to be traveling all the time again. Yeah, I'm going to be like not around, like how do we manage this? And then I didn't get it. They, um, were lovely about it, but we're like we've gone with the. You're a bit of a wild card for us from a handwriting perspective. This person's just got it and it's an easier transition and I was relieved, which I didn't think shows you you need to know, doesn't it?

John Hawker: 58:52

Yeah?

Bex Hyde: 58:53

But it did. It gave me some real thinking time where I was like there's parts of that job that I really, really love and I don't touch now. I love the brand strategy. I love the getting to know the customer, how we talk to them, like. I loved the marketing. I love doing the creative direction on like the shoots and the campaigns and the socials, and I was like why don't I just do that? Um, so I started building something around that and then I started having some chats with some other people and there was a lot of thinking time and I realized that I just don't like doing things on my own. I need someone to bounce off and I have a lot of flaws. I'm very creative and I'm, but I can be chaos, um me yeah, any views on that?

Bex Hyde: 59:50

I see nothing yeah, um and then me and amy started having some chats and I was like I think this is the perfect mix and I think we'd gone through similar experiences. I felt like amy was maybe in the space that I've been in six months earlier, so I felt like I could be the encouragement for her to do it and I felt in a much better space.

Aimée Johnson: 1:00:16

And here we are, yeah just quickly to rewind from that. We went for a coffee and like a dog walk, probably about. Do you reckon that was about three, four years ago.

Aimée Johnson: 1:00:26

It might have been in lockdown, so sure you were like allowed to go for a walk or something, and I can't. I'm not really sure why, but I probably messaged bex or something. I just we've always been aware of each other's like industries, like skills, and obviously we live in a small town, so know who each other is and stuff like that. And it's really odd now how we're like a partnership and people might say like, oh, and where did you meet bex?

Aimée Johnson: 1:00:50

and I'm like I don't really know, because I probably think yeah we definitely knew each other as teenagers, like in that sort of yeah actually ragged, used to be around here when it was on.

Aimée Johnson: 1:01:01

I bought a vintage skirt and I can remember it now like high-waisted yellow pleated, like bright yellow pleated skirt from ragged. Um yeah, so there's loads of like interwoven bits, like we've kind of like touched, had a chat, been like, oh yeah, that's helpful for me to know. Or you know, oh, I have a good vibe after speaking to that person and then we've gone off in our separate ways and carried on with something else and carried on with this, and then and now we're like you know, timing is everything and now we're just like, oh, we could do this.

Aimée Johnson: 1:01:29

And then, as you know, it's not been a thing for that long, but already we're like every day like seeing each other, like there's a meeting, there's this, we've got to prep this and it's just like, all right, okay, that's what was happening.

John Hawker: 1:01:42

All those times we met up or had a chat.

Lisa Hawker: 1:01:44

All the seeds were being sown to then grow up into what has now become the connection.

Aimée Johnson: 1:01:53

It feels quite organic, doesn't it? It felt like a very natural thing, yeah, and to the point where I was still, I was working for another friend's business, just like receptionist work, where I was trying to do my Instagram and trying to make that, you know, an actual income, rather than just like something really fun that earned me a bit of money. And, you know, training with Ed at the gym and then being like, oh, I could just like work here. It seems like a much better vibe, it's going to be good for just my mood and everything. And that only was last September, yeah, and then that's the reason why my face was probably in Bex's, like you know, every day.

Aimée Johnson: 1:02:24

She'd pop in, and then we'd talk about, and we'd chat about work Socials.

Bex Hyde: 1:02:27

How's it going for you? Yeah, work Socials are going for you. Yeah, we're like oh, it's so annoying that that place is really good but their socials are so shit.

Aimée Johnson: 1:02:33

Yeah, oh. Where did you eat this weekend? Oh, this place. Let me show you their Instagram, and it was just like this things we're obsessed with and things we want to talk about, things we want to do.

John Hawker: 1:02:47

It's really interesting, you'll know, to anyone listening to this, you'll know just listen to the whole season, some weird ginger guy but Ed like with ROM

John Hawker: 1:02:56

which is in Leon C. It's a gym. Ed is the owner of that gym. I'm saying this to the listener, bex, I know you know Ed runs that gym, familiar with him, and for me it's like a real community hub in me that's my feeling of it. I've worked in and trained in loads of gyms over I don't know however many years 18, 19 years and what I love about ROM is that there is that real sense of community yeah, definitely, and.

John Hawker: 1:03:23

I feel like a load of connections have probably been made in there. Yeah, not all that lead to someone going off and doing their own venture, but friendships, whatever that is, and you know, I think that's an amazing thing, so it's great that that was the final straw, almost to make you think yeah, why not?

Aimée Johnson: 1:03:39

And also, when you think of a gym, I mean I certainly do. That's why I started training with Ed and relying on a PT, I become overwhelmed, intimidated, like walking into a gym.

John Hawker: 1:03:48

And it's not like that with Rom, I mean mean, you wouldn't go into another gym probably and just start chatting to people making friends.

Aimée Johnson: 1:03:57

I don't know, they feel a little bit yeah and that is yeah. I think it's really unique for that because and actually like ed as well has probably had a huge impact on me personally and my confidence and stuff, so then naturally that he's picked this person to spend his life with. Of course, I get on with that person as well, do you know what I mean.

John Hawker: 1:04:13

It's like the bridge. Yeah, it's really odd.

Aimée Johnson: 1:04:16

But like between the two of them, they probably don't realise the impact they've had.

John Hawker: 1:04:20

That's really lovely. Stop it. You're making me cry that is a really lovely thing to hear. We're not going to carry on selling Ed and Ron but no, that is really. It's a really nice thing We've got space for our members. I'm going to just ask you a quick question, Amy, about your, what you were doing and what you started to do with posting on social and this presence that you started to build on Instagram and I just want to talk to you about, maybe, some of the stigma and also some of the labels that you can be given, so influencer being one of them.

Bex Hyde: 1:04:56

Yeah, so icky aren't?

John Hawker: 1:04:57

they? Yeah, and I just wanted to. I wanted to know because it is a recognized label yeah, there is a company we've discussed them called influencer now that goes out and picks up all these people with online followings and uses them to yeah to promote brands. So what is your view of the label influencer? And I, I would assume you are, but are you aware of that stigma around? The stereotype when we say the word influencer. Would you and would you classify yourself as an influencer?

Aimée Johnson: 1:05:24

all the faces there's listener there's a face being pulled to the corporate. I I wouldn't classify myself as an influencer, but then I don't know, maybe I am. I I suppose the whole idea for you sharing things, sharing ideas, styling tips, you know, restaurant recommendations, whatever it is you're influencing someone's decision on something that day. So, yeah, I mean it's. It's a shame that it's become such a negative thing I do.

John Hawker: 1:05:51

I do think societally, there is just a stigma surrounding it and that's not always a really positive one. Yeah, unfortunately.

Aimée Johnson: 1:05:58

But I would probably say a content creator is more of a and it seems more fitting in that that's the thing that I love to do. I didn't pick up the phone and think I'm going to give this a go so that other people buy what I say they should buy. Yeah yeah.

Aimée Johnson: 1:06:12

I and think I'm going to give this a go so that other people buy what I say they should buy. Yeah, yeah, I did it because I loved the images that I was seeing and I was inspired by other girls' outfits, street style pics or you know anything that they were sharing and I wanted to have a go at that myself. I was obsessed with fashion. I loved choosing an outfit for a special occasion, or you know. That that sort of stuff was just like would actually get me going. Oh, yes, someone's doing this. What am I going to wear? How am I going to build this outfit? What's my look? So then, just sharing that with other people just seemed like a really fun thing to do.

Aimée Johnson: 1:06:43

And it was just like flicking through a magazine.

John Hawker: 1:06:46

I think the content creation label is definitely one that better embodies what you do as a profession label is definitely one that better embodies what you do as a as a profession?

Bex Hyde: 1:06:55

yeah, definitely as a skill set, because it's not just about you is it, it's, it feels a bit broader, which feels less scary. Yeah, and you can have an agenda between behind the content you're creating, which lends itself perfectly now to this collaboration as well but you can have an agenda which is I want to promote something.

John Hawker: 1:07:08

Whether you know, for some people that's an idea, for some people that's items or products or whatever that is but, yeah, I just want to get your view because I think some people, just being completely honest, would yeah, would look at a feed like yours and say influencer yeah others that maybe have a deeper understanding of what it is you're doing would say content creator yeah, but it's a shame that the word influencer has become so negative, because there there is a hell of a lot of work behind it.

Aimée Johnson: 1:07:34

And I do think a lot of people think that you know girls kind of like float around taking the odd picture of what they're wearing and they just get loads of free stuff and free holidays and stuff like that.

John Hawker: 1:07:45

That's going to be the very superficial opinion that a lot of people would have.

Aimée Johnson: 1:07:48

Yeah, but I've met some amazing girls through doing it, or? Through having a go at doing it and you know they've done it full time. It is their income, you know, for years now and they work nonstop.

Bex Hyde: 1:08:01

They're business women aren't they?

Aimée Johnson: 1:08:02

Yeah, they're never not working and people might think, oh, look at you on holiday. Yeah, but they are working all the time, even if it's a holiday that they paid for, that they, you know, with their partner or whatever. It's a great opportunity for content and that never leaves you. You're doing it all the time and oh no, so you take your phone out and take a few pictures, but it's. There's so much more that goes into it if you give a shit.

John Hawker: 1:08:26

Yeah, and you care, you care so much because, it's you, so that stresses you out.

Aimée Johnson: 1:08:30

You want to get the shot. You want to make this look great and that one picture is like 8 000 oh yeah, it's 8 000 pictures, yeah, yeah, and there's so much that goes into it.

Bex Hyde: 1:08:40

A moment for the spouses that are on the other side wow, yeah, and there's a lot of arguments behind it like yeah, and you never, ever switch off.

John Hawker: 1:08:52

So, yeah, it might look like a lovely job and it definitely is for a lot of the time, but it is a 24 7 job I think that's why it's really interesting to ask, because a lot of people just see pictures on a grid and they just have this perception, but maybe just knowing what goes into it yeah it opens people's eyes, doesn't it?

Aimée Johnson: 1:09:09

yeah?

John Hawker: 1:09:11

okay, I think I feel like we've covered the next question. I was going to ask which, what? What was the moment you realized you could do something together? But that feels like it was. It's been ebbing and flowing. These two sort of like separate streams have gone into each other over over a course of meant to be.

Bex Hyde: 1:09:23

Yeah, it does feel a bit fated.

John Hawker: 1:09:25

I hate that makes me feel a little bit uncomfortable saying that because it does feel fated doesn't it?

Aimée Johnson: 1:09:30

and I am someone that kind of believes in the timing of everything and whatever's meant for you won't pass you and like that, you know I mean me just working at the gym, which seemed like really not a huge decision in life kind of has led to this, which is, I think, pretty pivotal, isn't it something quick, yeah, quite big and it just might not have happened that way, had I not decided. You know, I'd actually rather work on gym reception than than here so yeah and that was.

John Hawker: 1:09:56

And you could argue like that's taking you working on gym reception is taking you. No one's doing that strategically to think it's going to get me closer to this goal of working in fashion or whatever.

Aimée Johnson: 1:10:05

That is no, but it just shows you sometimes you, you know, go with the flow. Yeah, and sometimes you have to make. I've started to make decisions over what was better for my mind and my wellbeing. And that has led me to. Well, I'm pretty sure it's leading me to the sort of career that I really want.

John Hawker: 1:10:27

Yeah, that's really good to hear Nice.

Aimée Johnson: 1:10:28

Yeah, and the life that I want as well, because all that time that I was in buying, yeah, it was great, but it is hardcore and I don't know if that's what I'd want to do now. I kind of always thought that I'd love to work for myself, and I'm not very good at being told what to do. Even though I struggle with confidence and think deep down, I know what I want and.

Aimée Johnson: 1:10:52

I think I know a great way to do it and I do struggle when someone's sort of like yeah, it should probably be done like that, and I'm just like I don't think so. So you know working with just one other person, us being very different. Like Bex brings the things that I'm not so sure on, and hopefully vice versa. No one's telling someone else what to do, it just kind of clicks.

John Hawker: 1:11:17

I'm waiting for the moment where we can say the really cliche thing that drops the company name in as well, like, oh, it looks like you've formed.

Aimée Johnson: 1:11:22

We have formed a connection. I'm so glad you said it.

John Hawker: 1:11:25

Connection connection connection. I'll give you an opportunity now to talk about this venture. So you've now launched the Connection Limited, which is this joint venture, which is amazing, what is? Is there a specific gap that you are looking to fill? Is there something you've acknowledged or identified in the way things are being done by businesses now that you think?

Bex Hyde: 1:11:50

Yeah, it's shit. No, I'm joking.

John Hawker: 1:11:53

Generally speaking.

Bex Hyde: 1:11:56

I'm exclamatory. I feel like there's a lot of garbage out there with people. There are some great, great social media marketers out there and marketers out there and there's a lot of crap. Because I feel like social media management is one of those things that people will be like oh, this is great, I can do this, I can work from anywhere and I can just post people's content and I think similar to being an influencer.

Aimée Johnson: 1:12:29

It's also something that people scroll on. They're like I could do that. I could do that. There are actual skills involved and not everyone can do it.

Bex Hyde: 1:12:39

And there needs to be some strategy behind it. And it drives me to insanity because I'm like what is the fucking point? And there's a lot. I promise I wouldn't swear that much and I said five times and I've definitely gone over five.

Bex Hyde: 1:12:53

I feel like you're right no, you're skirting around that number that's okay, you do you um, and I get frustrated that people are just blindly putting stuff out there with no real strategy as to what they're trying to do, or they don't have a clear brand and they're just putting garbage out there. So I felt like there was a real opportunity to help businesses and personal brands to actually develop something cool whilst also having a bloody point to it. Um, and yeah, we felt like there was a real gap to do things quite differently. That isn't like a cookie cutter social media management approach where basically, you do 10 different versions of the same post for 10 different companies that all look the same, that we we charge a single flat rate and everyone gets the same post.

Bex Hyde: 1:13:51

For 10 different companies that all look the same, that we, we charge a single flat rate and everyone gets the same. And it is what it. We believe in a very bespoke, tailored approach to meet your business needs. Whether that is a tiny small business that can't afford to have a social media management but they just want some cool content, then cool, we'll do that for you. Or a much bigger business that is like we want to have nothing to do with it, but this is the objective. We want to feel like you're part of the team and you run with it yeah, nice and I think that's what we do differently.

Bex Hyde: 1:14:24

We care a lot about the strategy and what the point is to the content because, it's not just like cute pretty boxes. If it's not gonna, you're not gonna get the roi on it. I was just about to say roi, yeah, okay, like and there's lots of people that do it that have no like business sense, because they've never been in a position like that to worry about all the other things they're just posting really nice swishy videos and pretty pictures sometimes not so nice, no, I mean going back, going back to your point about this perception that the barrier to entry is really low, that everyone can go.

John Hawker: 1:15:03

I can have a crack at that and just using the tools that are maybe available natively on the apps and all this stuff, and they're just thinking, yeah, I'd have a run at it. But I think definitely some commercial awareness is key.

John Hawker: 1:15:13

Yeah, to get the return on investment yeah and when you're thinking about budgets that are usually the first things to be slashed during more difficult economic climates, marketing, branding, all of these things are the first thing to go, because how do you qualify and how do you quantify the investment you're putting in there? So to have that driving the content you're creating. I think is really important, and you've already described that.

Bex Hyde: 1:15:39

Both of you have got that commercial mindset too definitely, and I think we're we're quite data driven as well, which maybe surprises people sometimes but, when we're talking to companies, especially like we're. We're talking to some restaurants at the moment, which is an avenue, a field that we think we can really make a difference to, but 44 percent of instagram users use it to post about food and to find restaurants 44 percent. So why the fuck would you cut a marketing budget?

Bex Hyde: 1:16:08

when that makes the difference for your business like I think I can't remember the statistics, but it's like 90 of gen z's will only go to a restaurant if they can take a picture. Yeah, and it's an inscrammable venue yeah it's insane.

Aimée Johnson: 1:16:25

Yeah, and a lot of these, actual these businesses are run by people who aren't in a social media yeah era they're the food or the service or the environment, and that's amazing, but the best way to communicate that you've got great food and great service unfortunately now is through the little apps that we open on our phones every day. Yeah, and they need a jazzy toilet.

John Hawker: 1:16:51

Yeah, yeah, and there's so many simple things you can do that make that mean that your customers are going to be marketing for you yeah, I'm gonna ask a question at this point because I I feel specific and I know your partner, gabs, and I know, obviously, ed really well, I feel like maybe the with the branding stuff. So we're talking about this scenario where people go to restaurants, take pictures of their food and upload it to social media.

John Hawker: 1:17:17

Now I'm speaking specifically about ed, very, very keen on being mindful and present and in the moment, yeah how does it ever come at odds to you that sometimes you're promoting things to be seen and snapped and done on social, but then that's taking people away from that. More engaged engagement with the experience that's what comes to my mind sometimes yeah, but you don't.

Bex Hyde: 1:17:40

I mean Amy's queen of food pics, but I do like to take her food pics.

Lisa Hawker: 1:17:44

They are good. Yeah, they're very good. She's very good at the connection.

Aimée Johnson: 1:17:48

I'm like damn it.

Bex Hyde: 1:17:49

Amy's picture's better than mine, but Ed gets fucked off because he just wants to eat his food and I make him stop so I can take a picture. So I think that's why mine aren't as good. I'm going to blame him because I feel under pressure.

John Hawker: 1:18:03

I think that's maybe more where I'm getting with it. It's the relationship dynamic between like you're doing what you're doing for a living with people that maybe not always there in that same mindset and just want.

Aimée Johnson: 1:18:12

I just want to be present.

Bex Hyde: 1:18:14

Oh yeah, but you're also not doing it the whole time like I don't sit on like can I film you putting it in your mouth, you're not like doing it the whole time are you? I'm like wait, no one touches it while it looks pretty okay, and we're off.

Aimée Johnson: 1:18:29

The camera eats first yeah, that's amazing, okay, right yeah, and trust me, there have been arguments at the dinner table in a restaurant of like this is ridiculous yeah, like just stop you know, but it's a commitment to the craft.

Aimée Johnson: 1:18:44

That's the way I'm going to describe it, and through my instagram, I have had some lovely invites to restaurants for complimentary dinners so you know gabriel has to suck it up you're not paying for that steak, so I'll be taking a picture of it first, um, but I think, yeah, he's got used to it now and actually quite happy to be in the pictures. Well, his hands are in the pictures, yeah. And then afterwards it's like could you send me that so I can of course it is.

Bex Hyde: 1:19:10

Oh okay, yeah, ed does that too. He's like oh, it's so annoying, stop taking pictures of me. And he's like that one's quite nice.

John Hawker: 1:19:18

Oh, that's a cool picture. I'll put that on my good at this.

Bex Hyde: 1:19:20

Actually, people pay me to do it. Yeah, yeah, I'll send you my invoice, but there are definitely moments I spend a lot of time on my phone, so there are definitely moments, especially in the evening. It's quite often my like catch-up time, to like engage on people's accounts where we're so busy like actually posting our own content.

John Hawker: 1:19:40

Yeah, replying to messages, and that can be hard yeah because, like ed's, like just put your phone away and I'm like I can't finish working yet so sometimes it's it's like I'm literally on my phone from the minute I wake up at like 5 am till the minute I go to bed, because I, because I think societally now there's so much more focus on getting this balance right and minimizing phone usage and stuff, and for you guys that's just not. You know, if you tried to do the job you did without having social media.

Bex Hyde: 1:20:10

Yeah, I've never been good at balance balance like it's not my vocab yeah but we do have like we have chats about it and we'll be going somewhere and ed's like let's just have some time off the phone and I'm like, ok, and sometimes I just give it to him. I'm like you just take it because it's also, it's a habit.

John Hawker: 1:20:32

Oh God, yeah, it's a habit, it's quite hard.

Bex Hyde: 1:20:36

It's addictive.

Aimée Johnson: 1:20:37

Yeah, it is addictive.

Bex Hyde: 1:20:39

So sometimes I'll be like right, take my phone. If we're at home in the evening, I'm like just take it away from me. Because, if it's there, I'll just do it without thinking sometimes I don't even realise I've done it. It just shows you that yeah.

John Hawker: 1:20:53

Well it's, even if it's not there. It's like the weight of your phone in your pocket. So hyper conscious of it now I've actually got like repetitive strain. But that's a. That's a real thing.

John Hawker: 1:21:06

Yeah, it's strange like I don't do what you guys do for a living, but I go to my app.

John Hawker: 1:21:08

So yeah, linkedin is I literally live on linkedin my phone will go to where that icon is on on my phone yeah and it's terrifying, but yeah and I just do it mindlessly.

Bex Hyde: 1:21:17

I've moved my um. I've moved some of my apps I have to be a bit more conscious about finding exactly being conscious, isn't it?

John Hawker: 1:21:29

so you? So, going back to the point, you, you've, you, you, I mean you. You had very strong views on what some companies and businesses. No, I I love that because you've got very clear ideas of of maybe some of the way the wrong things people are doing when they're promoting brands, telling stories, doing marketing without any sense of what's your return, what's your?

Aimée Johnson: 1:21:51

goal here, okay. And that commercial mindset, that commercial background, I think would be an asset to anyone that's looking for that help and I think over time I mean we're not that far in but as things develop, it's not even limited to social media what we want to do.

Bex Hyde: 1:22:09

Yeah, we've been working like creative events and we're about to take on an interiors project, and so we're so invested in the brand when we work with people that we end up feeding into different areas, because social media it's just the start of it, yeah, and it impacts so much stuff yeah, yeah, I think we're we're sitting in quite a creative direction realm as well, that will.

Bex Hyde: 1:22:37

We end up styling some of our clients and we end up we do these big shoot days and then we get invited to actually work and do the events and get involved in more of that stuff like the set and the styling. So it's almost broader than social.

Aimée Johnson: 1:22:54

But yeah, yeah, that's it. That was the initial idea and sort of how we've started.

John Hawker: 1:22:57

But yeah, so do you see growth beyond where you are now? So you, you two, being a partnership now, do you see that growing to bring more people under the the? Connection we'd love to have, like not putting the cart before the horse, but it sounds like with those plans, yeah, yeah, I mean it would be great to have, like our own agency, you know, working with.

Bex Hyde: 1:23:19

There are so many amazing talented creatives that we get to work with. We work with an amazing creative production team. You know we've got a roster of amazing photographers and people that we work with and we'd love to build more of that you know, that's so cool yeah, so that people come to us and they can trust us to handle it all. Yeah, because we've got the people and we've got the contacts and we've done so much of this before.

Bex Hyde: 1:23:52

We've built websites for different people. We've styled people for different things. We've made the costumes, we've done the event space, we've done the set styling and the BTS. So we've got so much experience and we've learned the hard lessons of working with the people that you don't want to work with. So we've also had that. You know.

Bex Hyde: 1:24:13

I've done shoots where the photographer's lost all of the film footage you know like I've, you know, worked on some shoots where the paid a fortune for the set and the set's falling apart. Like we've learnt the lessons to protect other businesses from going through what we've had to go through.

John Hawker: 1:24:33

You've gone through the shit, yeah. I mean you've literally seen what works, seen what doesn't, and hopefully that experience helps you filter it all out, so you're not passing that on to exactly so.

Bex Hyde: 1:24:42

It's more than us taking cute pictures for your instagram.

John Hawker: 1:24:46

It's definitely more weird trying to say yeah, and if that has come across, as I think that it's definitely not what I think, but you're completely right.

John Hawker: 1:24:54

You're bringing some real depth to depth to that. It's all evolving really fast, like all the changes and how all the technology behind it is working. So how do you? I guess I already know the answer to this, but how are you keeping up with all the trends and that evolution and the way the tech changes or the way people are even engaging with that form of marketing? Is it by doing the job? You're doing it, you're immersing it, aren't you?

Aimée Johnson: 1:25:17

so I guess you, you just see it yeah, you live and breathe it I guess, yeah, it's all there for you to yeah, we're quite geeky so we like getting into the marketing and data yeah, because it's really interesting and we have that business acumen side of it.

Bex Hyde: 1:25:34

So I I want to understand what those are, I want to understand what the return is, but I also think it's really, really important to know your brand and know you don't have to jump on every trend that comes. I think that's a really, really important thing, and you need to have a really really clear brand strategy and mission and values so that you don't jump on some of these trends which aren't right for you.

John Hawker: 1:26:03

And.

Bex Hyde: 1:26:03

I think that can very easily happen when you're like, oh, there's this viral sound going on or there's this viral. If I take a video, I can just film myself tapping my keypad and on this viral, and it's going to go viral. Cool, what's the point of it?

John Hawker: 1:26:21

So I think it's a vanity thing, isn't it for a lot of people? Totally, we've had this discussion in the gym. I get so frustrated with this. Um, I don't know these tribes of people that are all churning out the same viral like structure or format. Yeah, the same post on tiktok or instagram it's just insert.

Bex Hyde: 1:26:40

Try this, your face here. Try this tiktok hack yeah and it's like, yeah, but there's no point to it if you don't know why you're doing. It isn't no and it all looks the same and then you just get like lost in it. So it's important to know when to jump on a trend and when to just do your thing know, your brand. You don't have to go viral for it to make a difference to your business.

John Hawker: 1:27:08

Yeah, true.

Bex Hyde: 1:27:09

And sometimes that's not always the best thing you know. But knowing your customer, knowing who you're trying to sell to, knowing your brand messaging, knowing who you are, the DNA, the mission of your brand, is more important to me, so that's what I'm going to say do you so before?

John Hawker: 1:27:29

as advice to anyone that is at the very early start of this journey or maybe they want to develop or evolve what they're doing. It's the sitting down part of it and actually getting that shit in order. First, the strategy before you start.

Bex Hyde: 1:27:41

You know scattergun posting on every single form of social media that you can, or start an advertising thing. We're like what's your, why yeah?

John Hawker: 1:27:50

Yeah, yeah, okay.

Bex Hyde: 1:27:51

Why are you trying to do it? Why do you want to go viral on TikTok. What's the point? What are you trying to do? It's a good sense check, isn't it for people?

John Hawker: 1:27:58

A lot of people ask me that when I started using TikTok for the first time I'm talking about recruitment tips Like it's not it's not sexy stuff but someone asked me why it's educational and that works on TikTok, apparently so.

John Hawker: 1:28:09

Like I feel like I've got a decent following on that platform. But someone asked me why? And I was like that's a good, that's a good point, cause I started getting sucked into some of those very like you know, those trends and I'm just like I'm doing it for vanity, I'm doing it so I can start to see bits and pieces.

Bex Hyde: 1:28:31

Yeah, tick over, it was for the wrong reason. So sometimes that sense check is what's your why, what direction, what's the goal exactly? And then it's easy to make yourself accountable or your business accountable, to be like oh we, we don't know if this is right for us or not. Okay, let's go back through what's the mission, what's the values? What? We're trying to do yeah who's our customer, who we're trying to talk to? Oh, we're talking to like this demographic. Okay, this isn't right.

Aimée Johnson: 1:28:51

Then, yeah, or actually it would be interesting to like test it and let's, let's try it so yeah, I think knowing your, why knowing your, knowing the brand, mission, values, is so important, before you just start blindly posting on social media and that works if you're a brand business, restaurant or if you're doing it yourself, because through where I've been doing it personally as well, I signed to an agency about a year or so ago and after a few months of some lovely paid jobs then there wasn't really a lot going on and they kind of said to me oh, you should try doing this, you should try doing this talking video. Where you do this, you should and send me references of other creators, do something like that and for a second you have to think but but that's not me, that's not what I want to do. That's not why, you know, I kind of had to rethink then whether that was right for me. So I parted ways with them and, yeah, you just have. You have to know who you are and just and just be confident in that.

Aimée Johnson: 1:29:56

See that through.

Bex Hyde: 1:29:58

You don't have to, you know and the problem is, if you're trying to just go viral and you're trying to appeal to everyone, you'll appeal to no one.

John Hawker: 1:30:07

Yeah.

Bex Hyde: 1:30:07

Because you don't know who you're talking to. And that is often the biggest problem, I think, with people, with social media, is that you do need to have a niche, you need to know who you're trying to talk to so you can create the right content which is like educational for them. That's engaging yeah disruptive for them, like you're speaking to a need or a want that they have yeah and if you're not, you're just pissing in the wind because there's so much there yeah, by trying to please everyone, you're pleasing no one exactly.

Aimée Johnson: 1:30:41

Make sure you please yourself, first of all, do it for yeah, yeah have some like integrity in what?

Bex Hyde: 1:30:48

you're doing yeah, you you know proud of it, yeah yeah it's.

John Hawker: 1:30:53

It's a really like I don't know. It feels like a real timely reminder for me too, because I feel like I've gone through a process in the last few months of trying to diversify and in a sense, that has broadened me slightly and then it was literally over the last couple of weeks.

John Hawker: 1:31:07

I've gone fuck that. That's not who I am, that's not aligning with the way I want to do things or the brand that I've built. I've gone back to what I was doing, which I'm not saying is perfect, but it's more in line with who I am. It doesn't need to be perfect and that's part of it too yeah, yeah, like just needs to be authentic, doesn't it? Yeah?

Bex Hyde: 1:31:26

actually sometimes, like on social, they'll do these really swishy campaigns. These like high spec, high res models, cameras, and it doesn't resonate with the customer like you doing a selfie video talking through the collection does because people can. It feels more personal it feels like they're part of it. It's got more integrity to it. It feels more honest and valuable, so there's room for both yes there needs to be that mix, and I think sometimes people get so caught up with everything being perfect that then they don't post at all.

John Hawker: 1:32:06

Yeah, it's like paralysis, isn't it Exactly? You get stuck there and you're just thinking, oh, I'm not going to start.

Aimée Johnson: 1:32:11

Yeah, yeah, which also happened to me for a while. I was doing it on my own and being stuck in my own head. I was just overthinking everything. Oh, that's not good enough. So I just you know, which is another good reason why Bex is.

John Hawker: 1:32:24

It definitely feels like a really good combo. I feel like I'm the opposite. She's like come on let's get on with this. I'm like ah.

Aimée Johnson: 1:32:30

Okay, but let me just tick the spelling, that's basically how we work.

Bex Hyde: 1:32:34

Yeah, I mean caption, queen over here I'm like black heart and Amy's like well they're, and I'm like yeah they're really good words to be fair the English degree isn't completely going to waste.

John Hawker: 1:32:46

Oh yeah, there you go Okay, so some of the copywriting stuff is coming in handy.

Bex Hyde: 1:32:49

Oh she's an absolute wizard with that and I'm useless. Well, there you go that's it.

John Hawker: 1:32:54

It's complementing all these things, isn't it? Do you think that AI is going to have an impact in what you're doing and the reason I ask that? I've been exposed to loads of tools that are promoted on LinkedIn all the time about how you know photography. So brand images, video production, all this stuff. It sounds silly. It will have an impact on the industry Of course. I guess it's more of a statement. How do you feel about that? I guess you've got to embrace it, learn elements of it. Is that your view?

Bex Hyde: 1:33:25

there are, like anything. There are some wonderful parts of ai, like as a creative tool. It can be used in a really exciting, innovative way, or it could be another thing that processes beige info beige content. So I think like I've tested some of the you know the chat gpt stuff to do captions or write things and I'm just like ew most of the time I just don't feel it.

Bex Hyde: 1:33:56

It doesn't feel human. Yeah, so I'm sure it will get there. I'm sure there'll be jobs lost. I'm sure it will affect people. I'm sure there'll be jobs lost. I'm sure it will affect people in ways, but not if you're shit hot at your game. Yeah. Not if you understand people and you really know how to emotionally communicate with them and connect, connect yeah.

Aimée Johnson: 1:34:23

That is where the name came from, and the explanation behind it was about yeah, and I don't know if you're going to be able to create that connection with the people you're trying to engage by using it.

Bex Hyde: 1:34:37

No I agree.

Aimée Johnson: 1:34:39

We're into feeling and emotion and connection. That's what we're into.

John Hawker: 1:34:43

Yeah, you can't roll your eyes when you're saying connection amy sorry, it's the name yeah but no, I like. So I'm saying this from a position of being, like a big ai cynic. Like I'm not a fan boy of ai, I have got real concerns about how it's going to be. When I say weaponized, I don't mean firing weapons but like how people can use it for nefarious means I think a lot of people have described it as a force multiplier for people that are really good at what they do, and that might be right.

John Hawker: 1:35:15

I'm very reticent of going and moving forward with it and embracing it too much for a range of reasons, yeah I'm also from a family of creatives. My mum, my brother artists, and I have people posting ai generated art yeah, yeah and this is a personal opinion I can't stand that people are calling it art yeah, because in the purest sense. I don't, I don't agree with that, that's going to be.

Bex Hyde: 1:35:40

Uh, you know but I guess, like anything, it's a tool, like a pen is, like paint, is it is, it can be a tool to create, so I don't know if I entirely agree with you there. I think you can create. There are some artists that I follow that do create some AI stuff so this is where the counter argument usually comes from, maybe I'm just not digesting enough of it because I am so don't go on.

John Hawker: 1:36:09

There's a lot of tripe out there as well.

Bex Hyde: 1:36:11

There's like um, there's, there's a lot of crap, but I do think there are some people doing some special things. But I also agree that I think we do have trouble on our hands as this. I think there will be some huge complications with it and I think, at what point can't we control this? But I yeah, I don't know, I'm not totally anti it, but we don't use it.

John Hawker: 1:36:39

And that's intentional? That to me, is like music to my ears. That that's not a thing. And who's to say you may adopt certain technologies? If it's intentional, that to me, is like music to my ears. That that's not a thing. And who's to say you may adopt certain technologies if it's? You know, if something comes up in the future that aligns with what you want to do? For me and I guess the reason I bring it up, I think the way that you're going to be able to differentiate yourself as a brand movement is not using it.

John Hawker: 1:37:00

Yeah, totally it's keeping it real, real doing the behind the scenes stuff to show the humans behind the process rather than super polished.

Bex Hyde: 1:37:08

I've just got so many concerns with it, but it's um there's an interesting linkedin thing which I should send you, actually from um in the producer circuit and it's an agency, an event agency that I've worked with before, and he was reviewing an event that had gone live that was entirely AI, so like the production of it had been done by like it's been organised, it had been like everything had been done by AI and it was a shit show. Yeah.

Bex Hyde: 1:37:37

Because, Good. You need it felt beige, it felt bland. It felt like the messaging was off. It felt like they weren't really resonating with anyone, because you need humans to talk to humans to a certain extent.

John Hawker: 1:37:54

So yeah, yeah and I think you've answered the question to this can either of you go out and enjoy yourselves and be completely present in the moment without thinking of a way of framing something, promoting something, or being cynical or, let's say, critical, critical? Yeah of of where you are can. Do you find that hard or do you just embrace the fact that actually that's a quality and a skill that yeah, pays you, I do yeah I kind of just embrace it and see it as yeah, see it as a positive.

Aimée Johnson: 1:38:25

I don't mind it, it's just like eyeing up opportunity, inspiration. Yeah. It just comes from all those places, Like if we are going out for a meal on a holiday, whatever, everywhere is.

John Hawker: 1:38:36

oh, I'll just take a picture. It's a canvas of some description.

Bex Hyde: 1:38:38

We could do that. We could do that, yeah, and I feel like, even from a strategy perspective or anything like that, I'm like like someone will be like, oh, this thing's happened, I'm not sure what to do, and I'm like you should do this with your business.

John Hawker: 1:38:49

Have you seen it.

Bex Hyde: 1:38:50

Yeah, I think you don't switch that off.

Aimée Johnson: 1:38:53

Yeah, I don't think it, and it might sound a bit cheesy, but I think the way that we are those sorts of things that you find inspiring actually makes you feel good, which I think is why it feels like such a natural thing to try and you know, carve out our yeah, and you go to those spaces driven by maybe a certain thing and you meet people who are also like and you get other creatives yeah, you meet like-minded people through.

John Hawker: 1:39:26

Yeah, yeah exactly so um well, as long as you're as long as you are energized by it, I guess, then there's no harm in it. Is there when it and when it becomes laborious yeah that's when you might realize I need to change my relationship yeah, yeah if that doesn't happen, then fucking brilliant yeah, yeah, that kind of stuff, yeah, energizes me, I think stuff that like tires me.

Aimée Johnson: 1:39:51

It's like social interaction.

Bex Hyde: 1:39:52

Yes, no, no, no, not this at all. I like going to a party.

Aimée Johnson: 1:39:58

I'm like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And engaging with people you don't really know, or you know, that's to me, I'm like I'm exhausted.

John Hawker: 1:40:04

The networking stuff, I'm completely the same.

Bex Hyde: 1:40:07

Yeah, I mean you're better because you go to like social events and stuff yeah, but sometimes it takes it out of you like yeah. I like I don't care.

John Hawker: 1:40:17

Yeah, I know it's you should know that about yourself. I'll work the event.

Bex Hyde: 1:40:22

I'll be behind the scenes, I'll do the thing, but do I want to be in a room for like? No, not really. I know I can do it but, I just would rather be at home with the dogs.

Aimée Johnson: 1:40:33

I definitely recharge like alone at home.

Bex Hyde: 1:40:36

Yeah, but I also love a good walk without my phone.

John Hawker: 1:40:41

I think that's important too disconnecting yeah one of the the running themes in this podcast throughout season two have been the it's like. My observation is that we've got a really high concentration of creatives, entrepreneurs, business owners around leon c and south end, so everyone in season two falls into that bracket in some way, shape or form. So I have been asking what do you think? First off, do you think there's any sense in that? And then, do you feel there's a particular reason as to why that's the case in our little pocket of the world? Do you think there's sense in it? First off, you can say no.

Bex Hyde: 1:41:22

You can say you don't agree, think there is and I think there isn't. I feel like when I was younger, growing up around here it was, it was really cool.

Bex Hyde: 1:41:34

There were lots of like little micro indie things going on and there were like bands or club nights or little tiny things, yeah and I feel like there are lots and lots of people who are creating businesses and self-employed and that sort of thing maybe more so than there were then, but I feel like there's a lot of people who are doing the same thing recruitment agents yeah things are like oh, that coffee shop's working, let's open a coffee shop. You don't know anything about coffee, you haven't got a brand, but you just piggybacking something that's already done, well like our pizza restaurants about.

Bex Hyde: 1:42:16

Let's open eight pizza restaurants, and I'm just like can someone have a new idea please? Yeah like can you actually see an opportunity and come up with your own version of what that is?

John Hawker: 1:42:29

I guess that's why I get frustrated, yeah so there's definitely examples of what you've just described. So give, give me some examples in, let's say, lee specifically, where maybe there is some. I can think of a couple where they're bucking that trend. So june's store for me is one of them.

Bex Hyde: 1:42:42

That is really incredible. Knows who he's talking to, knows his customer and is testament to something like that where people are like skate shop's never going to work in loo.

John Hawker: 1:42:53

Yeah, and it's like it's such a staple. So yeah, so bex has just said, for anyone that's listening, june store is a skate shop. So like I feel like back when I was a kid, back in sort of like mid 90s, skate shops were more of a thing. There used to be some down South End High Street, but that whole culture has kind of gone through a bit of a resurgence.

Bex Hyde: 1:43:11

Dave is incredible right and it's like it's a donut shop, it's a coffee shop, it's a skate store. He creates ice creams out the back yeah he like, does all the artwork and designs the t-shirts. He's just knows who he's selling to and he's selling to that person everything he can. And that is fucking great business. Yeah, you know like he knows his customer so well that while he's got them they might walk in.

Bex Hyde: 1:43:42

They can't afford to buy skate shoes all the time they can't afford to buy a new deck all the time but, they can afford to go and get a flat wire and they can afford a vanilla donut, and he also keeps them in there for longer.

John Hawker: 1:43:54

It's great so what about you, amy? Maybe if I focus more on food?

Aimée Johnson: 1:43:59

well, do you know? I was just going to mention George and Roll Boys.

John Hawker: 1:44:03

Okay, you must be aware of, I've still not had oh.

Aimée Johnson: 1:44:07

George, oh my God, and I think if you're going to talk social media, he's a great reference in our local town. Because he's created one product which tastes delicious, but he's created a whole brand behind it, a whole identity behind a, a whole identity and an incredible story.

Bex Hyde: 1:44:27

He is a great storyteller yes exactly.

Aimée Johnson: 1:44:31

Yeah, he's just perfect example of of like reeling people in someone that's doing it right yeah, with an instagram platform initially and then a great product to back it up and he's doing something different.

Bex Hyde: 1:44:42

Yeah, like he's tackled it in a completely different way. He's done it in a very George way. Yes, it's incredible and he is going viral and getting mad engagement, but it's driven for the right reasons.

John Hawker: 1:44:57

Yeah, I remember, I think when it was on the lead up to Christmas when all the shops opened late in Lee and his post. He did a reel on Instagram that was him just trying to announce the time.

John Hawker: 1:45:09

Even that Roll Boys and where it was going to be and it was just fucking up every time.

John Hawker: 1:45:13

So it was him doing it, doing it, doing it yeah and then just giving up walking away and. I remember.

Bex Hyde: 1:45:17

Oh my god, I watched every bit of that yeah, because you also resonate, because you're like, because I've done it yeah, of course you have it was so clever yeah and I spoke to Andy about it at the time.

John Hawker: 1:45:29

I think I remember going into Cult the next day and saying that was conscious, wasn't it? Like he actually I don't know if he's a very good actor or whatever it was, but he turned the fuck up into something really engaging and relatable yeah. And I thought that was brilliant and that's where the sort of authenticity comes from, isn't it Exactly?

Aimée Johnson: 1:45:45

I think he's at peace with being a little bit vulnerable on there, very honest, and that's all helping people engage as well with the whole, with his whole story and brand development, and he won't mind me saying this either, but he's come from a background of failed business. Right. Which.

Bex Hyde: 1:46:00

I think is really important. And I think is really important and I think a lot of people that they've learned hard lessons like it's the same with Ed, with Rom, you know, like he won't. He's had a couple of you know failed businesses and they take their toll. But you learn the lessons, and anyone that goes straight in and creates a successful business straight away don't always learn those lessons. And.

Bex Hyde: 1:46:22

I think that's really, really important so you can be more vulnerable straight away. Don't always learn those lessons then and I think that's really, really important so you can be more vulnerable. And I think it's refreshing to see that on social media as long as it's not false bullshit which there is a lot of that as well.

John Hawker: 1:46:36

Right, we are done. But there is a closing tradition on the podcast.

Bex Hyde: 1:46:39

Oh, okay, oh, it's your mum isn't it. Amy doesn't know this it's fine.

John Hawker: 1:46:45

It usually outs the people that haven't listened all the way through a podcast before.

John Hawker: 1:46:50

I'm a good girl, so basically, the tradition on the podcast is that the closing question comes from my mum, which Bex has just said. So my mum has played quite a big part in my marketing. This is the budget that I've got to work with, just because I think she's hilarious, whether she knows it or not. Oh mum, oh mum, we love you, mum. It's kind of a twisted thing from Stephen Bartlett's podcast, which I don't know if you've heard of it.

Bex Hyde: 1:47:16

Yeah, it's doing all right. Oh, that little thing, yeah, yeah, yeah, I can't want to do that, obviously mum's way better, yeah, so let me just find her, she also poses really good questions we'll see, don't stitch us up mum oh god does she?

Aimée Johnson: 1:47:33

remember me from school? She does, yeah, aww, yeah.

John Hawker: 1:47:37

I mean, who knows, she might have referenced that. It's only 13 seconds long, so we'll see. So I want to listen to the question oh, okay, love that.

Lisa Hawker: 1:47:43

So this is the thing, right, see if we can get it now, hi, amy and Bex as an artist.

Aimée Johnson: 1:47:48

What do you think are the three main considerations when? Building or developing your brand.

John Hawker: 1:47:56

Thank you very much so mum's asking for free consulting, yeah.

Bex Hyde: 1:48:01

I like your style clever she's asking for some free advice, basically.

John Hawker: 1:48:07

We've got you mum, so my mum is Lisa. If you wanted to direct an answer, you don't have to give three reasons, but what do you think Maybe are the core things then that you need?

Aimée Johnson: 1:48:16

to To consider.

John Hawker: 1:48:18

Cheeky mum Thanks.

Aimée Johnson: 1:48:19

Oh, lisa.

John Hawker: 1:48:23

And I think mum's coming from A position of being a creative person too, so if that can have a slant or if that even makes a difference, I don't know if it does.

Aimée Johnson: 1:48:30

I think we've probably discussed and covered.

Bex Hyde: 1:48:33

Yeah, I think, knowing who you're trying to communicate to or connect to Knowing your audience. Yeah, it's incredibly important, in whatever realm that is, whether it's from a business perspective, whether as a creator, whether as an artist, whether you need to know who you're trying to connect with and why, which we bang on about all the time.

Aimée Johnson: 1:48:59

Why are you doing this? Why are you creating whatever it is that you want someone to? Buy you to drink or wear or whatever, yeah, yeah what does it mean to you um?

John Hawker: 1:49:09

it's gone in pressure time.

Bex Hyde: 1:49:10

Last one, you've done two yeah I think, knowing your truth, I think that needs to play. You need to know who you're trying to communicate to, who you're trying to talk to. I think you need to understand the story behind it and you need to feel at peace with it, I think it needs to feel you can tell when someone's trying to be someone else yeah and I think that comes through in art, in anything else yeah, you need to develop your own style, that is, and you need to be at peace, yeah, at peace with it and with who you are yeah, I mean we have very different styles, yeah, but our objective is the same

Bex Hyde: 1:49:53

yeah so but if I tried to be amy I'd look ridiculous, because I'm not the polished version that she is. I'm a bit of a scruff bag and covered in sketchy tattoos and yeah, but at the same time, bex is pulling off some looks that I wow.

Aimée Johnson: 1:50:10

You would just laugh me out of do you know what I mean and that. But that's fine, because that's what, that's who we are and we're comfortable with that, and I think that's probably another reason why just to harp on about timing again is I probably haven't been comfortable with who I am, what I want to be, what I want to do, and, well, not as comfortable as I am right now yeah today.

Aimée Johnson: 1:50:33

So it's, it's all good timing that Bex has said do you know what? I think I don't want you to just like help me out with this idea. I want us to be a partnership. Um, you know 50, 50, let's, let's bring what we've got to the table. And I was like, yeah, do you know what I can do that? I believe I can do that. I believe I can bring 50 of this to the table, um, without like doubting my ability, which is what I've probably done for years.

Bex Hyde: 1:50:59

But it takes an evolution to get there, and I think that's really important yeah you have to experiment with different things to actually find no, this is it, and you have to fail yeah, which is the bit that I struggled with.

Bex Hyde: 1:51:11

Yeah, whether you're an artist or not, and you try a different style, or you try ai, or you try this and you're like hated it, it doesn't. I don't feel at peace with what this is, and I think that comes from a style, perspective or anything. I've definitely, like, looked at other people and I'm like, oh, they look so polished and they look so nice and like clean and tidy. All the time I'm gonna try and pull that off and I look fucking ridiculous, like it's just, it's not something that I can do, and I know that now. Yeah, so I'm never gonna have that slick, clean girl aesthetic, because it does not work for me yeah but mob wife got you.

Aimée Johnson: 1:51:49

Yeah, she's now, I've got you but then also referring back to like social media, playing into all these things, because obviously, if you're creating something now art or whatever it is you are probably sharing it on a platform. Um, you might get 10 000 likes or you might get four. You need to know that.

Bex Hyde: 1:52:07

You like that, yeah, and you're happy and you're proud of it, yeah all of that shit can really get into your head as well, and if you know yourself and you know it, you've got a barrier.

John Hawker: 1:52:19

Yeah awesome yeah there you go, mum. I don't know what they're going to charge you for that, but I think I think that was a pretty good response.

Aimée Johnson: 1:52:26

So thank you very much, thank you.

John Hawker: 1:52:27

Ladies, that was an absolute pleasure. I really enjoyed that conversation. I don't want it to end. I'm conscious of timing and everything, but I think we've covered all the bases, but thank you so much, that was amazing Thank you so good. Thanks for listening to Jobsworth. If you enjoyed this episode, please feel free to like and subscribe. You can stay connected by following me on LinkedIn for more insights on the world of work behind the scenes, content and updates on upcoming episodes.