Taking Centre Stage

This week I sit down with Lucy Bardrick who shares her inspiring journey from a small town in Cornwall to becoming a professional dancer and now an exec at Arbonne International. She discusses her early passion for dance, the unwavering support from her family, and the challenges of pursuing a career in the arts. Lucy also emphasises the importance of mindset and resilience. We discuss Lucy introducing her initiative, Quadruple Threat, aimed at helping performers develop a strong mental framework. As she prepares to return to Cornwall, Lucy expresses a desire to give back to the performing arts community that shaped her career.

Takeaways

• The reality of auditions involves facing many rejections.
• The journey of pursuing a passion can lead to unexpected opportunities.
• Mindset and resilience are crucial for success in both performing arts and business.
• The importance of networking and connections in advancing one's career.
• Tenacity often outweighs talent in achieving long-term success.
• The performing arts industry can benefit from a focus on mental health and mindset training.
• Having a supportive community is vital for personal and professional growth.
• It's possible to balance motherhood with career ambitions.

Lucy Bardrick
Website - https://www.lucybardrick.com/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/lucybardrickofficial/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/lucyalexa

Keywords
Lucy Bardrick, dance career, Arbonne International, parenting, personal growth, auditions, musical theatre, supportive family, education, leadership, performing arts, cruise ships, auditions, London, business, mindset, Arbonne, Quadruple Threat, personal development, career transitions

The JobsWorth website is here www.jobs-worth.com

Follow me on LinkedIn; https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnhawker/

Follow me on Instagram; https://www.instagram.com/jobsworthpodcast/

Follow me on TikTok; https://www.tiktok.com/@globaltechcollective

Subscribe to my newsletter 'The Job Journal from GTC'; https://tinyurl.com/TheJobJournalFromGTC

Learn more about my proper job; https://www.globaltechcollective.com/

Contact me using hello@jobs-worth.com

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Lucy Bardrick's Journey
• 1:39 The Early Passion for Dance
• 6:15 Supportive Family and Pursuing Dreams
• 10:03 The Importance of Enjoying Learning
• 12:45 Navigating Education and Social Skills
• 16:08 Growing Up in Cornwall and Finding Community
• 21:13 Leaving Home for London
• 27:14 First Steps into the Professional World
• 33:16 The Reality of Auditions and Making Ends Meet
• 36:45 The Breakthrough Opportunity in Australia
• 46:47 Life on a Cruise Ship and Leadership Lessons
• 53:37 The Allure of Cruise Ship Performances
• 57:09 Navigating the Audition Landscape
• 1:02:07 Transitioning to London and New Opportunities
• 1:06:34 The Birth of a Business Venture
• 1:22:55 The Quadruple Threat: Mindset Matters
• 1:40:40 Returning Home: A New Chapter in Cornwall

Transcript

0:01

Yeah, come in. It's bit of a purpose for what I need it for. know, so... I think it's the nice little part of Southend, isn't it? Like the conservation area is like... my goodness. It's nice. It's a nice little... It is literally a nice little pocket of it. But yeah, we're lucky. Put anything anywhere you want. Get comfortable and then... we'll get started. Welcome to episode 2 of Jobsworth season 3. This week's guest is Lucy Bardrick, former professional dancer, choreographer and now executive regional VP at skincare and wellness brand Arbonne International. Lucy is one of a small number of people I've spoken to that knew exactly what they wanted to be when they grew up. Penpons, the small Cornish town where she was born, wasn't the epicentre of opportunities for people looking to embark upon a career in musical theatre. But Lucy benefited from having an incredibly supportive family and a number of of inspiring figures that spotted she had a very real chance of doing something with her talents. We discuss what it was like attempting to turn a lifelong passion into a career and leaving home at 17 to do it. The highs and lows of auditions, the reality of landing a job in the industry, the power of networking and what it was like working on blockbuster movies with A-list actors. We also talk about her experience of becoming a mum and the subsequent realisation that progressing in an industry she loved was at odds with the type of parent she wanted to be. Lucy found a way she could be fulfilled at work and be completely present for her two boys, three if you count her husband Dean and we talk about that too. So without further ado let me introduce you to someone who has quite literally danced through life's challenges and has redefined success on her own terms. Lucy Bardrick. Okay, you've heard the podcast. I have heard two or three. Yeah. Okay, that's good. So you know, like the general feel and yes, the sequence of events that happen. So you're probably ready for this opening question. I am. I'm really excited for the opening bit because... But after that, after that, I'm like, yeah. Well, I'm going to ask you. So when you were younger, what did you want to be when you grew up? dancer. That was it. So from what age, what's the youngest memory or the earliest memory you have of having that in your science? So I don't have the earliest memory, but my mum and dad told me that when they used to take me to dancing on a Saturday and I used to say to them, mummy and daddy, I'm already doing what I want to do for my work. And I was referring to dancing. And apparently when I was four, I said to mum, mum, I want to go dancing. And I think mum just thought, Okay love, like it's another one of those things that we all say, know, kids say they want to do and I want to do this and I want to do that. And then I said it again and again and mum was like, right, okay, we've got to scratch this itch because it's there. Somehow she's got it. There's nothing in my family. You know, they didn't know where it came from. And then I started ballet on a Saturday morning. My mum asked around, where do I take Lucy to dancing? And everyone said, Miss Annette's School of Dancing. I love that, missin' it. I missin' it. So off I go. I never ever ever looked back. Really? I never wanted to do anything else. But as you said, no one around you was doing it. So you've got no other inspiration, you've got no other role models that are doing dance or theatre or anything like that. It's just intrinsically that's what you wanted to do. I must have seen something or maybe seen something on TV. I don't remember that. I don't remember where the first bit of inspiration came from. I just, mum just told me that when you were four, you said you wanted to do it and it had come from somewhere and it wouldn't go away. Wow. So I can imagine a lot of people, kids especially, I have a lot of friends that... did dance when they were younger. Yes. Or they've gone to ballet lessons. Yes. Or they've done this. And they might have said at that point, I'd like to be a dancer. There's a very few, there's very small percentage of people that actually go on to do something with that. So what did your, mentioned your mum there who was supportive of what you wanted to do, supportive of those endeavors. What were your, was that, could the same be said for all of your family? Were they all there? Cause I imagine if it's only you as a four year old going, I want to be a dance and everyone's looking at you going. Of course you do. Rolling your eyes and that's it. Not everyone's going to have that support that then leads them down that path. But obviously you did. Yeah. And I, I almost feel bad that I didn't give them the credit at the time that they deserve because now in hindsight and as a parent, I can see that they, they never let me think it was worth looking in any other area. So I, so my mum and dad were teachers and they were both English teachers. So they, I can, understand and appreciate how they could have quite easily wanted me to go down a more academic race. Yeah. And I did well at school. I got good grades and I can, and I had friends actually, but also loved dance, loved to perform and had parents that actually weren't encouraging of them to go down that route. So I had friends that were like that, but not not one moment in time. Did my mum or dad ever make me think it was worth looking down another avenue? Ever. That's so good, but it's so rare. It's very I would say from my experience and speaking to people, maybe I've not spoken to enough, but I would say the more common route is to have parents that go, yeah, okay. like roll your eyes a little bit, maybe in the evening you go, they keep talking about dance, we need to get them down something else. And also, and I say this with respect and understanding because I am a parent, but also parents that think they probably do know better. Yeah. And I understand why they would think that because we've lived more, we've had more experience, you know how tough it is. However, was obviously some knowing in me that but there's nothing else I want to do with my life. So they really did just encourage that. It's so amazing to hear that. And I think a lot of people, I asked that question, as I say, most of the episodes that I record to see what the link is between what you wanted to be when you grew up and then what you ended up being. And it's, don't think I've spoken to anyone where the link is so direct, where you actually went on to turn what you loved doing into a way of making money and into a career, which is really great. And I think I thought that's what people did in life, that's what they had. They kind of had an idea, they knew what they wanted to be and they pursued it. Because that was my experience, so I remember thinking that's normal. And then when you speak to other people and along the way, and it's not, you even my own husband, Dean, Dean Bardrick, Dean Bardrick, you know, he, I think potentially wanted to go down other routes, but then looked for a more, what seemed sensible option at the time. and then didn't really end up enjoying what he was doing and then did look elsewhere to do other things afterwards. So I remember being quite surprised when I learnt that not everyone knows what they want to do at four years old. Yeah, I'd say that's the majority of people out there. Yeah. I mean, I, I cite my brother as someone that knew what he wanted to do from a very young age. It was in him. Funny enough, creative, hyper creative person. He is an artist. If anyone's listened to his episode, they'll that already. But he just knew from a very young age and he's one of the only people in my life that I can, and now you, but I can think he knew from a, maybe not four, but definitely that primary school age that he wanted to do something with art. And he's done it and then some. So it's great. And I am admiring of that. I'm also slightly envious because I still feel like what am I going to do when I'm a grown up? I run a business, I'm still like, what am I really going to do though? What's my proper... Passion gonna be that I can turn into a career, but I think most people strive for that but never find it So it's lovely to hear when people do that's it and I think I really hope that I will just be that person that whatever Bowen and Ruben my two boys whatever they love I just hope that I Act in the same way as my dad just encourage them to pursue it because ultimately We spend so much of our life at work. I just think it's really important that you have a love and an enjoyment of what you do and that you feel like you're fulfilling some purpose. I agree. It's taken me a little while to feel like I've come back round to that. Having meaningful work, having something that not only makes me money and that gives me some sort of objective, but that I get something from intrinsically. rather than just the material stuff as well. The podcast helps. That's why I tagged it onto what I do for a living. There's a very tenuous link because I work in recruitment and I speak about careers on the podcast. yeah, that's kind of brought it back around again for me, which is nice. absolutely. We'll touch upon that quickly because you say you've got two boys. I've got two boys. So we know they're similar ages. So I've got Finlay and Bodie and you've got Ruben and Bowen. I think we're in I've had it described to me a couple of times, we're in a social experiment of parenting now. We are the first generation that are expected to parent in the way that we are, I think, in a range of ways. And I have really started to wonder, how do we best support our children to find out what they want to do? So they do get a sense of purpose and dare I say, passion about what it is they move into, but God knows what the world of work is going to look like by the time they get to that point. It scares me. Yeah, slightly. Yeah. I don't know what your thoughts are on it, but it does. It does me too. And I, and I think thinking about that and thinking about the boys, I feel like one of the things that I've always been quite passionate about with Dean is that, and also because mum and dad being teachers is that of course I want them to do well at school and I want them to thrive. But for me, the most important thing about school is that they learn how to enjoy learning. Yes. The emphasis isn't on a grade for me, for me, for them. The emphasis is on what do you love the most? Because I actually don't think you have to be the most talented at something to succeed at it. You just have to, you know, if you've got a passion for it, if you love for it, then you're going to probably be the person that sticks at it the longest. Yeah. And that counts for something, doesn't it? Yeah. That longevity. my gosh. It definitely did for me. I, talking about my dance career, I... would say I didn't get my break in the industry until eight years into the industry after I graduated. So I started dancing since I was four. I went away to train professionally at age 17. I trained for three years, then moved into London. Then eight years after that, I got my break. So stick ability, sticking it out. But because I loved it so much, I wasn't doing it just for the money. I needed to make money. I needed to make it work, but I wasn't doing it just for the money. I did it because I loved it and I couldn't imagine doing anything else. I think that's a really good point to make. enjoying, it's not the destination, it's the journey. Like not doing it for the end product, not doing it the byproduct of study, but actually enjoying the study itself. Yes. you know, adhering to something on a daily basis that you love. And then, yeah, at the end of that, you might end up with something that is really powerful. And my mum, she... She loved English, she loved teaching English, she loved Shakespeare, she loved taking the school kids to the theatre, she loved it. But I think actually mum fell out of love with the education system a little bit towards the end because it became more and more about the marks, the grades, and I almost feel like each child having like a letter on their head. Whereas she was all about, I just want to give every kid the opportunity to come and enjoy English and experience it and find the love of theatre. And I just think if I encourage that in the boys, like just learn to love learning. I also think that I never ever, ever want to stop learning. I hope they know that too. I'm probably learning more now at this point in my life than ever. And just always being that student, but enjoying learning. And I think, I'm hoping that that will put them on a track of, let's embrace all of it, but really focus on what I love the most. think that's really healthy. And I think that will really help the boys, give them that platform to go on. Who knows? It's all an experiment, isn't it? We're all trying our best. If we give a shit, we're trying the best for our children. yeah, no, thank you for going into that. think it's... It's something I think about a lot, keeps me up. I know. Wondering what the best thing to do is. And because there is social pressure. Yeah. There's a lot of social pressure on, I mean, and actually I was very sort of like naive to this when it came to the time of like getting them into school and everything. know, gosh, this school and that school and the right school and that goes on to this. I was like, God, I hadn't even thought about that. It's like a game of chess. The strategy starts very early, doesn't it? If you buy into that. Yes. And that was a bit of a shock to me. I hadn't thought in that way. So the other thing that is like the most important thing for me with them and school is that I feel like the most important thing I got out of my education was the social education part. Yeah. Yeah. Mum and dad, I keep talking about mum and dad the whole time. It's like what they instilled in me was the most important thing is actually to learn how to get on with people from all walks of life. Yeah. And, and I feel like school, you know, did that for me because I was in a school. I was in normal primary school, normal public, not public school, I don't mean that, state school. State school, yeah. And, you know, there are people from all backgrounds there, and I think it was, that was one of the most important parts of my education, was that it... is good in life like we're all the same ultimately we're all the same we're all connected learn to get on from with people from all walks of life you know what that's never come up until yesterday when i did the first episode of this season where was talking to someone that went to school in islington and we were talking about being engaged in an environment where you had people from different cultures different ethnicities different classes and how important that is and i was very transparent around my experience of school which was But basically I was in a school with a load of other middle class white people and I didn't have exposure to necessarily people at the extreme ends of that earning scale. And definitely not from a sort of different cultures, that multi or diversity, the pool there was not diverse. And I think that might have impacted the way that maybe I came out into the working world. And there were some boundaries that I'd, that would just. Therefore me yeah, but if you are exposed to more as a kid You just have a way of working through that a lot more naturally So you made a really good point, but weirdly had this a similar conversation yesterday, too Yeah, yeah, I definitely think it stood me in good stead so in terms of my career as a performer but also and actually in the world of business as well because Actually a perform being a performer. It's very much a people business. You're in a cast like I wasn't a one-woman show I had to get on with people and I had to learn how to work with people all you know different kinds of backgrounds same in business and actually I wouldn't be successful in business if I didn't have that ability to Connect with people and get on with them rather than just only surrounding myself with you know, so a certain few that I choose Well, it's so important in both parts of your career, which we'll go into. I know they're in tandem, what it is that you do, but I guess we can separate the, yeah, they are very different, definitely a skill that is so transferable between both. I'm going take you back to school very quickly because I just want to bridge that gap. You grew up in Cornwall. Where in Cornwall did you grow up? A tiny little place called Pempons. It's a really small village. just past Camborne on the way down to Hale, if anyone knows Cornwall. Yeah, but tiny, tiny little place. And there was probably about, I think between 60 and 70 kids at the school, the primary school aged four to 11. So I'm trying to think, our kids go to the same school. How many kids, do you even know how many kids are in our, in the school? Well, there's 120 in reception. So there are 120 in each year. Yeah. So we're getting an idea then of the sort of size and scale of the school you at. So two points to make. I can't imagine, My perception of Cornwall, especially around that time, that it's not the central hub to support people like yourself that have those dreams of going into what it is that you ended up doing. Yes. Yeah. Is that fair to say? It's absolutely fair to say. you had Miss Annette's. my God. It just makes me happy. I can see it. I can see it in my head, but you Miss Annette's. Yeah. And actually this might tie in a bit with your question about the boys as well, but Miss Annette's was, you know, when I started going there at age four, it very quickly became... It's like my second home and the most amazing community to be a part of. you know, mum and dad didn't express it at the time, but I think they were very probably relieved over overjoyed that, you know, come a weekend. And as I grew older, I didn't want to, I didn't want to go out and meet the friends in town. I wanted to be dancing. That was your tribe that you found there. They were my people and actually they are still my closest friends in life. So. So it was, yeah, it was just this wonderful, really close community. We all had this common interest and joy of dancing. But we also, alongside that, grew up together. They heard about every boyfriend, every heartbreak, know, the things that you go through as you're growing up. That support network, it became that support network outside of the family. Absolutely, it was. And what I would just say now as well is that, you know, there are many dance schools, but my, had... two wonderful teachers, Miss Annette and her daughter, Miss Harvey. And they did everything they could to give us those extra opportunities. When you grow up in Cornwall, and especially back then, I think it's still similar now, although I'm sure it's much better, you very quickly become aware of the fact that if you want to go anywhere and you want to do anything and you want to have any extra opportunity, you have to travel. You can't stay there, you have to go somewhere. So any of the summer schools where I did a week intensive in the summer, I'd be going at least to Exeter, like two hours away from home for the week. We had these like scholar classes, which are extra classes that happened on the weekend, but they're not local. Again, they were normally two, two and a half hours away, sometimes Bristol, three or four hours away. And they did seek out every extra opportunity they could to help me pursue what they could see was something that I just wanted to do. Yeah, that's, that's amazing. And I think for anyone that goes on to Excel, in their chosen field. There are some major players or key players outside the family that identify something in you that is special, whatever that word is, and they want to try and help you and feed it. That's it. And that sounds like they were those people. I owe my career to them without a shadow of a doubt. Are you still in touch with them? You still see them? so Mr. Nett. Miss Annette passed away a few years ago now. Okay. She was like everyone's like second grandma. Okay. Amazing. Yeah. She was just this just imagine this cuddly warm woman with this amazing like bun on top of her head. It never changed. It was always immaculate. That is so what I was picturing when you said Miss Annette. I was like, I've got this person in my head. Yeah. Okay. A different shade of like ballet shoes. Actually the gold ballet shoes were always my favorite. Always a scarf around her neck. But she was so, she said, all right, my darling. think she was just this cornish, wonderful woman. You always felt like you could talk to her outside of class as well. And then Miss Harvey, her daughter, was actually the one that was more, I would say more strict, I need, especially for what I wanted to do, I needed that to push me to be better and understand the discipline that was needed. So those two women, 100%, gave me my career. That's so amazing. So you've said from an early age, It was kind of drilled into you that you weren't, if you wanted to pursue this, it wasn't going to be in Cornwall. You needed to up sticks and travel. What age, I'm assuming at some point then you did up sticks and travel. So when did that happen? Usually I go into school a little bit more, but I feel like you've covered that. feel like you've said that your experience at school was overall positive. You did well at school. You could have. Academic route you could have added other avenues available to you. Yes, but you didn't you followed this and progressed it. So what happened? So I Was I did become aware in my teen years that I I couldn't stay in Cornwall if I really wanted to do this for a living for the rest of my life and I was a bit heartbroken by that because I love Cornwall is honestly I think is the best place on earth. We're gonna go for a circle at some point aren't we? absolutely. But I did appreciate that and mum and dad did make sure I understood the only way to do this really is London. If you want to go into musical theatre you've got to be in or near London so I was aware of that. I was a young birthday in the year so I'm a June birthday so ballet schools if people if People want to take it seriously. Often they go away to train full time from age 11. Right. There is no way that I was going to do that. And mum and dad actually wouldn't have allowed that either. They know. So they wanted me at home so they could, you know, look after me. You've got brother and a sister. One older sister. One older sister. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Who went into law. Completely opposite. Okay. How interesting is it? Very interesting. So I didn't go when I turned 16 and just left school. So I only just turned 16 when I left school. I didn't go that year. I then did one year at college doing my AS levels and that was the year that I auditioned to go away. Right. So interestingly, when I just turned 16, I did probably feel like that was too soon. I would have been fearful about going away. But within that year of auditioning, I was then itching to go. Like I knew at that point, I was going to say there's nothing left for me here in Cornwall. don't, know, family, yes, but nothing career wise. I was just ready to go. and just be challenged, be out of my comfort zone. And I suppose this was one of the first things I learned. I actually, am that home bird. When I first went away and did a summer school, just a week away from mum and dad to dance every day, which I loved, I really struggled, really struggled. So again, I wasn't probably your... most obvious candidate to go away and have a career in London. No one was looking at you at that stage to say, Lucy's just gonna go away and do it. No, exactly. I really struggled. I was desperate for them to come and pick me up. And you know, a parent, I know what I was like at the end of the phone. I was breaking my heart to them on the end of the phone every can imagine my boys doing it now. be like, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna come and get you. And this is another thing that mum and dad did that was amazing. And I owe so much to this moment. But they I was like, you said if I needed you, you'd come and pick me up. And they said, Lucy, you're safe. You're well. You are okay. You are okay. And we know you can do this. So we're going to see you at the end of the week. And they didn't come and get me. They made me ride it out. Well, I mean, I was furious the day they picked me up. I wouldn't even look them in the eye. I wouldn't look them in the eye. But how long did it take you to come to terms with that being a positive thing now? Today I'm talking about it. But I remember the following year, so the following, it probably took me a year, the following year and I was thinking, God, I can't go through that again. Like I, I felt physically sick with homesickness every day. I was like, can't go through that again. I was really nervous. But again, mum and dad, the lesson was if you want to do this, you've got to push through the hard, you've got to show yourself what you're actually capable of doing. So I went, so this is one year later. loved every day and then earned a scholarship to go the following year. So I was like, okay, I get it. I get it. Like I get that this is not going to be easy. I get that it's going to be uncomfortable. I get that I'm going to be out of my comfort zone a lot, but that's the only place that this is going to happen. It's not going to happen within this comfortable place. Yeah. God. And that, that leads us to the cliche, doesn't it? Like nothing grows in the comfort zone. Like you have to step outside that you have to do something uncomfortable to really give yourself those opportunities. Again, I haven't used this in a podcast before, but yesterday's conversation, I'm going to copy a point that I made, which is like your sliding doors moments. Yeah. So if your parents on that day had either picked you up or the next time around, you'd said, I'm really worried about this. And they said, yeah, do know what? You don't have to go. You don't have to do it. This, you've got this convergent timeline that runs off that may have, what would have changed your life completely. Yeah. Yeah. And that's I think so incredible that your parents did do that. Yeah. And there's a line isn't there between pushy parents, I'm not saying that's an example of pushy parenting, but that's again as a parent myself, I wonder how much. I know. Do you know what? That is such a good point. And I think I can pinpoint it to the fact that I know obviously in hindsight, you don't know as a kid, but they were not doing that for them. They were doing it for me. It wasn't they wanted you out of the house for a week. We need a break from Lucy. This is actually the thing. like, cause of mum and dad being teachers, they, you know, they didn't have to worry about childcare in the holidays. They had all the holidays with us. So, you know, so that it wasn't like a, if they, if Lucy goes, then at least, you know, that's sorted. I know that they only did that. Mum and dad, you know, didn't want me to dance. They wanted me to do what I wanted to do. And that could have been. anything. If you were saying you wanted to do anything they would have supported you in that endeavor to do that. That's lovely. That's really nice to know that and to have been made to feel like that as well is amazing. So you've got your scholarship to go back the next year and then that's when you got the bug and realized I need to get out. That's it. I need to go to London. Not get out. I need to go to London. Let's turn it like that. At 17? So I was 16 and it was the year between turning from 16 to 17 that I started auditioning for three of like the top musical theatre colleges in and around London. Okay. I auditioned for these three places and you know I was terrified about going away I knew I had to do it but I was terrified about going away and I was just hoping that I'd get some sort some sort of sense of where would be the right place for me. Also knowing that I actually couldn't have gone away had I not got a scholarship because the money was ridiculous. Yeah. And I think again, mom and dad would have like remortgaged the house for me, but I wouldn't have wanted them to do that. I knew I needed the scholarship. So I auditioned for the three, one of them, I'm not mentioning any names, which is going to tell you the experience. I walked through the door and they said, hi, you know, welcome. If you just come through this way, we're going to weigh you and then we're going to get started. I'm not going to mention any names. so before I did the audition, I know you're not for me. Right. Like that place is not for me. That's not why I'm here. Yeah. So there was one experience and then I ended up going to performers college, which is near Basildon. Right. OK. Yeah. And they were just they were friendly. was high energy. Brian Rogers, who was the director, was a bit like a miss Annette. OK. my gosh, he did so many things back in the day in the industry and he was just the most kind-hearted wonderful man. And just, you know, a big smile, warm and I just, did have a good feeling about Performance College and fortunately I got the scholarship to go there. then that was it. It was set in stone, just turned 17 and off I went. What an age though. I'm not going to ask you to name names because I don't think it's necessary, but I think it's, it's kind of. Do you think it's representative of the industry to go into a school like that and be said, we're going to buy you and then get through? Is that something that happened was fairly commonplace or you heard? I think it was evidence of that. think it was. I think things have changed. They have to have changed. I did do contracts after that. When I graduated, I did do some contracts and where I, we were weighed weekly. So that, you know, so that did exist. I don't know if that still exists now. I doubt it does from the college and training perspective. I think they are, I just think they've come a long way. There's definitely, it's definitely still present, but I think they've come a long way. Yeah. I mean, at 17 years old though, you're like, you're still so impressionable and immature. And I mean that in the most respectful way you like, you, you, take your 17 year old self and judge yourself against now going into a room and being told we're going to weigh you and that being the first interaction you have and how you potentially react or feel or what your actions would be after that. The very superficial knowledge I have of that industry is just interesting to hear that as something that you experienced. And again, you know, I actually knew previous to that, that I had actually wanted to, I really loved ballet. I wasn't really made for ballet, I loved it. It was like the hardest discipline. There's something weird with me that I just like the hardest challenge. I'm just attracted to it. So I really enjoyed ballet for being a very challenging discipline. And I was aware before going that actually, if I wanted to become a ballerina, if I wanted to go into that world, then I definitely needed to be... Smaller in inverted commas than I was so I was already aware of aware of that but again very fortunate that Mom and dad definitely kept me grounded. I that must have been a worrying time for them because you know a girl or a boy or anyone in that their teen years, it's a It's a so complex challenging time. Yeah, that's it. So So fortunately where I did go to performance college they were they I didn't I didn't get that sense that that was not the focus. The focus was I'm here to dance every day. I'm here to sing. I'm here to act. I'm here to learn how to be in this musical theater industry. And actually how much I weigh, what that number is on the scales is not part of what's going to make me succeed or not. That's really good. So if you've got that as your fundamental driver, like your core value is based on that rather than the more superficial stuff. I can understand why considerations like a certain aesthetic for certain jobs, certain roles, certain movies, films, adverts, whatever have to be taken into consideration. But yeah, I'm just thinking about, yeah, that age specifically. I being told at that age as a teenager, yeah, come and jump on the scales and then we'll get started. But it sounds like you landed on the best out of the bunch. I'm a firm, firm, firm believer that... the universe has my back. I couldn't have expressed it in that way back then, but I definitely felt like, I've always felt like I'm supported in what I do. What will be, will be the right thing because that's what's happening and that's what's panning out and I will surrender and trust that process and then be in it wholeheartedly. So, you know, there was so many, a number of other options of where I could have gone, but I know that performers was the right place for me and I had a great three years and then... Gosh, and then off I go out into the real world and then that's the next scary moment. So you're 20 at this point. So you're 20 years old. You've now relocated to London. So were you living in London and then going out to Essex or closer to Essex when you were at performers? Yeah, so I lived in Diggs. I lived in a small place near the college, near Basildon. So was there for three years and then graduated, moved into London into a house share with three other performers as well. Okay, and at this point you are looking for work? Yeah. So you graduate with no... have you got prospects at that point? How does that work? Yeah, so the college had got some agents to come in. So I had an agent which I was like over the moon about, like this is brilliant, like at least I've got something, but... that's not the thing. Like you still have to make your own luck in that industry. And it's not a case of let's wait for them to call me and something they will have got me something in. You have to go out and you have to make it happen. And you have to be on the phone to them and you have to go to every open audition. So open auditions would be the auditions where they weren't just the agencies that got people in. An open audition was in the stage newspaper at the time and anyone could go. You'd be queuing around the corner, hundreds of people ready to go. what's the competition look like for an open audition? my gosh, hundreds for this audition, whether it be a musical, whether it be a cruise, whatever it was. And yeah, and you've got to just show up to audition after audition after audition. hear no after no after no after no after no and find something within you that'll get you back to the next audition. And then in the meantime, I felt like I would work wherever job I could find to pay the rent, to try and make it all work whilst pursuing. So at the end of 20, were you have I would imagine you're having to do that before you're getting a paid work in doing what it is you want to do. What other things were you doing to make ends meet and keep the money coming in? A bit of everything. I worked in a bar, I worked behind the bar, I worked as a waitress. I was terrible at both. Right. Why? I remember. I so I'm good with I'm good with people. I'm good having a chat I love having a chat but I remember waitressing in this really beautiful restaurant and they actually there was a wedding reception in there one day and I had the tray of champagne that ended up going down I'm shaking my head. I know I just know where it's going the tray of champagne that ended up as I'm trying to squeeze between the chairs down the bride's dress. Don't. I know. I know. So that's an example. Terrible. Yeah. So you weren't great. No. I can imagine it really knocks you confidence as well. just horrendous. One of them, so I worked for another agency for promo work. So a lot of performers, most performers will know the joys of promo work. This particular agency, it's another one of those scenarios of looking you up and down a bit and going, yes, you'd be good for The right look, or yeah, the aesthetic. So I ended up in Harrods. standing for eight hours squirting perfume, the latest perfume, to everyone that would go by and it was just mind-numbingly boring and we weren't allowed to talk we just had to stand up tall and straight and for eight hours with this perfume and my gosh mind-numbingly boring work. Yeah can I have to ask is that commission based at all? Do you get, so if any, if a spritz converts into a sale, you don't get, you're getting over it. Because if it was, I would have worked harder. Yeah. You would have been a little bit more driven to do it. I would have been more motivated, but no, was just your bog standard hourly rate. So that was, that was a way of, so bar work, waitressing, promo work. Yeah. When then does your first break come and you actually start getting some paid stuff. So. I remember being in Harrods and I had auditioned for the musical Wicked, which a lot of people will know. One of my faves. Honestly, it is absolutely incredible. It gives me It doesn't matter how many times I listen to it, it gives me tingles like the music. my gosh, it's incredible. So I had auditioned for Wicked and I'd been through several rounds of auditions. and I had got right down and they had put me on hold. So you're very excited if you hear that from your agent in the industry. this the most progressed at this stage that you've got down an audition? Yes. This was within my first year of graduating. So I'm on hold. I then get a call from the agent saying, Lucy, you're on stronghold. I didn't even know stronghold was a thing. I was like, I just a hairspray thing. Exactly. this is is fabulous. I you know, I've got this I've got this and I remember being in Harrods leaving work one day and I've been checking my phone a million times to see when the good news would come in. Yeah. Left Harrods on a shift one day, walked out through the doors, got the call from my agent and she said, Lucy, I'm so sorry, but the person you were going to take over from has renewed their contract. You didn't get it. So what did that feel like Lucy if you can take yourself back, do you The worst feeling my only solution was I need to go and get drunk Yeah, I mean that's what a lot of us did I feel like people are less bothered about that now but back then honestly You know, were just I was like right let's go out drown your sorrows. That's it. That's drown myself This is what I could think about doing really that was the only solution I had in my head Because I I don't know it's hilarious now and I look back but I thought I had made it that was the dream I know musical in the West End. start planning out your future, don't you? Based on that. Yeah, of course you do. get that job and then someone else is going to say, I'm going to earn this and then move on to this. Right. And you map it all That will come in, the rent will be easily covered. I'll have this much money left over. Yeah, course. So then after this, I remember obviously being very, feeling very sorry. I had a pity party that lasted about a month. Okay. I can, I can. they do. I can definitely empathise with that for sure. And then I remember going to another audition, yet another audition with friends and I didn't even look at what this audition was for. I didn't even care. An audition is a free class. So when you're in that performing industry and classes cost a lot of money, but you've got to keep that training up somehow. So you've just got to go to every audition that you possibly can because it's a free class. And I didn't even look at what this thing was for. I didn't care. I was still in a mood. So but I knew that a lot of my friends from college that I trained with were going so the rhymes gonna go and We then all went out that night. I didn't drink a lot, but we did I mean you're not making yourself sound like an alcoholic Don't worry. Don't justify it. It's So we went out that night and I remember getting back in and checking my emails ridiculously late at night And I had an email from this company that I auditioned for that day saying, Lucy, thank you so much for coming in today. We'd actually like to fly you to Australia next week. I remember thinking, what the hell did I audition for? Like I literally, I don't know what's happening. What's happening? And fortunately, one of the guys that I trained with in my year, Chris, a really good friend, he had got the same email and it was, the company was Greyboy and they provide the entertainment, the performers, the singers, the dancers. for Piano Australia. So the contract was to fly out to Melbourne the following week, month's rehearsal in Melbourne, and then join the ship in Sydney and then cruise the South Pacific before me. So from the little girl from Cornwall that could not even go away for a few nights without feeling horrendously homesick. I then in that moment thought, I think I knew, I think my gut knew I needed to do it. It wasn't part of the plan. Well, I was going to ask, cause it's not to detract from an opportunity like that, but it doesn't sound like they're the things that you're aiming to do. No, it wasn't part of the plan at all. And that's why I definitely questioned it. But. I went back into Harrods on another shift. Spraying the perfume. Spraying the perfume. And I had a really good friend in there called Scott who'd been in the industry longer than me and he sort of took me under his wing a bit. was so flamboyant and funny and hilarious and you know we'd always try and talk whenever none of the management were looking so we could you know try and get away with it. Yeah. And I said to him, I said Scott I said I've been offered I've been offered this contract. In Australia what should I do? And he said, Trej. He always called me Trej. Trej, you've got to get out of here, Trej. And in that moment I thought, he's bloody right. Like, what am I doing? I'm in London spraying perfume. That wasn't the plan. The plan was to be on stage. Yeah. And it gets you on stage. And it gets me on stage. I'm going to see a part of the world that I've never seen. What an incredibly amazing opportunity is that? So I just need to grab this opportunity with both hands, get out of my comfort zone again, get out of London and get that experience of performing. Yeah. So off I popped. Brilliant. How did your parents react to that? Because London is one thing. Australia on a ship for months is a different prospect. So how did they react to that? Do you know what? Supportive? They sound lovely. Well, they are, but I know because of the conversation since that it's not how they felt together and it's not the conversations that happened together. know, mum and dad were both terrified when I went to London. Mum and dad were then absolutely... and heartbroken as well, heartbroken and terrified again when I say I'm off to Australia. But they never showed that to me. I, yeah, in hindsight, it's the thing I just appreciate the most. You're kind of protecting, they're protecting you, aren't they, in a way, from that sense of doubt that comes from their sense of doubt or fear or whatever that is. Exactly. I only had my own fears, my own doubts. They never put any of theirs onto me. And because of that, I had the courage to go. This isn't a parenting podcast. That's maybe something else down the pipeline. But I think, yeah, again, I can't help but hear that and think how I would be with my boys if they ever did that. And I would love to think, because we're again, we're at a time where we're told to share with our kids, we're told to like, I apologize to my kids a lot. So if I raise my voice, if I lose my temper, I'll sit down and explain why. And I'm not afraid of doing that. No. And then there's this kind of vulnerability in this sense of sharing. there is also a real benefit in sometimes, okay, I'm going to be this safe space. That's it. And getting that balance right is really, again, really difficult. But it's just when you're saying that, think there's so many positives that come from, we're going to protect you from all the emotions we're feeling. And you know what, we're here to support you. Here's your bedrock. You go off and do what you want to do. You're so right. And I feel like I have definitely, you know, been that way with Bowen and Rubin and had those vulnerable conversations and apologize for all those things that I've needed to apologize for. And I've been very aware of that. But you're right. There are so many times upon reflection and probably now it's becoming even more obvious now that we're talking about this, that some of the most poignant moments of my childhood that helped shape my future were the moments when mum and dad didn't show their weakness or their fear. They only projected. their belief in me. And that's all I got from them at that point. And I, you're right. I think it is the balance of sometimes that's the only thing that your children will need from you because then they've got the strength to make their own decision. But at the same time, I do think they appreciate that vulnerability sometimes when we do have those conversations and that closeness. that potentially I didn't necessarily have sometimes with mum and dad because they were always trying to be the strong parent. And I think even like my mum who's very open, like we're a single parent family, my mum raised me and my brother for years before my stepdad came into the picture. Yeah. And then I think even my mum had this such like, she's the most positive person to this day that I know. Like if I turn around, I think I've used this example before and said at the age of 37, mum, I want to be an astronaut. She'd go, John, you can do it. And she believed, I swear to God, would believe that I would go off and be an astronaut or whatever it is. I've seen through various therapy sessions I've had over the years since, it's like, that's a really positive thing. But at the same time, it can set you up for the sense of, I can do anything. Which is not always the most realistic approach to have in your mind. So it's it's balance is, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. We're often a tangent, but I just want it to just... Interesting. It is. And it's interesting now, like so far all of this reflection has been a lot about the impact of what mum and dad have said or how they've acted in certain scenarios. That's then I can then see how it's shaped something in the future. And then when you are that parent, you do then question yourself, am I doing that enough for them? Do I need to be different in some way? Or it's I've asked myself every day. Yeah, I know. Like I said, it's not a parenting podcast, but. That might be another conversation for another time. Okay, so we've got you now on a ship. Yeah. Or arriving in Sydney and then what, so seven months did you say at sea? Yeah. Not non-stop I would imagine. Well, no, in and out of Sydney and then in and out of Brisbane. Okay. So yeah, and that was an experience. And interestingly, I almost think this is the first part of my career that starts to link to the business I was gonna start in the future. And I didn't know there was a connection. I was 20, turning 21 on the ship. That's a funny story, I'll tell you, because it's just a hilarious image to have in your head. So we've rehearsed in Melbourne for a month. We get to Sydney and we're about to set sail from Sydney. And what happens is the original cast stay on there to do the shows while you are... getting into the show. It's like a knowledge transfer almost. is. And obviously all the costumes and you know getting that right and you have the ability to watch the shows and understand what your track is, where you are, what your quick changes are going to be and all of that learning. We sail out of Sydney and the weather is absolutely horrendous. None of us in the cast have done, have been on a cruise ship before. God, okay. All of us are horrendously seasick. I was going to say, yeah, okay. What I hadn't said is that not long before this, the assistant choreographer has come up to me and said, Lucy, we would like you to be the dance captain on this contract. Wow. Now I don't even know what a dance captain is, honestly. I wish I did. I wish I knew the level of responsibility. But I had no idea what that really meant. But also I was perplexed as to why they asked me. There were people more experienced in the cast. There were people that had worked for the choreographer and for some reason they asked me. And I naively said, yeah, come on then I'll do it. And what I didn't realise is that to be a dance captain, you do need to have a certain level of leadership skills. And I didn't. They must have seen something in me to think I could have, but at that point I just didn't. And again, when you're on a ship, it's not just about keeping a show looking good and keeping a cast together. There are so many other things you've got to think about because you have other responsibilities when you're working on a cruise ship. You know, you're working in the guest areas, you're working with passengers as well. You have other responsibilities. And if anyone messes up or is it so well behaved or whatever, it's on you. It's on the dance captain. So you're literally in the most respectful way. I'm thinking of like your child minding this whole dance, the whole crew, the cast to ensure they're not, I'd imagine. Yeah. Doing lots of nefarious things with guests and... I don't know, but I can just imagine. Yes, you're imagining right. And also, this is scary when I look back on it, when there is an emergency on board a cruise ship, as the dancers and as the cast, you have responsibilities. You have to get to your muster station. You have to lead a muster station. You have to be able to get people off that boat and get them safe and get them to designated blah, blah, blah. Wow. And I just... thinking, looking back on it and you're also aboard a cruise ship where in the crew bar you're not paying that much for alcohol. Right, okay, yeah, everything's subsidized. right, there's no restriction on it back then, there probably is now, but you know, so if that alarm were to go off... What an... Anyway, so... You're not necessarily the best person to be leading a master station or whatever that right, because my knowledge is limited. Exactly, right. So I'm 20 and this is the responsibility. So it was a bit of a shock. And now we're sailing out of Sydney, our first night. The whole cast is ridiculously seasick. They're all telling me they don't want to do this anymore and they want to get off. And I'm feeling the same. And you're 20. And I'm 20. Yeah, in the same boat. Literally in the same boat. I'm feeling the same, but I'm now in this position and I can't show that. I've got to be the one that's, know, promising it will all be fine and all rest of it. I just remember being like, what have I let myself in for? Anyway, we all got over that. And it was a great contract. But in terms of me experiencing a contract where I needed to be some sort of leader, what it taught me is that I absolutely was not one. I didn't know how to be. My idea of leadership at 20 years old was, right, okay, well, all I've really got experience with in that area is, you know, my parents and teachers. And obviously, so it's quite that sort of authoritative way of being. And that's not leadership. And it's definitely not effective leadership where a cast is then going to want to follow you and be happy to do as you say. And so it was the steepest learning curve. And then on top of that, obviously you're just, you're in such a close knit environment. There's no escape. Yeah. I can't, can't, I can't fully imagine it. I get your points and definitely it resonates with me in terms of my first role in leadership too, in that I took on this teacher role. There's a viral clip going around at the moment of someone. from the apprentice just swearing at everyone, like in this office going, F'ing and Jeffing all over the place. And I'm like, I think I might've been like that once. But that's all I knew. It was like, you do this, you weren't taking people on a journey with you. You were telling them what to do. When I say you, mean, like broadly, but that was my experience. But the whole being stuck in a space with people you can't get away from. is my idea of hell. Sounds awful. It's just not healthy. There were such highs, such wonderful moments, but then the lows were just so like magnified. It was quite, yeah. And you can't just, you can't just pull a rip cord and go home. You can't press the eject button. You are literally physically unable to do that. Also you're part of a contract. That's it. Yeah. I don't actually think it's in me to quit anything. So I I'm just like stubborn person. I will not quit. I'm not giving up on this. will, you know, I'm going to power on and try and try and learn as I go. But it was, it was a toughie, but it was probably one of the biggest learning experiences I've had. And actually it set, I didn't know it then, but that was the beginning of a path for me that probably is what was responsible for changing my career further down the line. Tell me in that seven, seven month period, Does it come into your mind that, okay, this is a job and this is the first stepping stone. It's the closest I've got to in terms of auditions and getting this work, but it's still not exactly what I want to be doing. Does that come into your head? Yes. A lot, a little, at all? Not, probably not a lot, but I always sort of quietly knew and remembered that this is brilliant. And actually, Yes, it is part of the plan because I'm on the stage and I'm performing it and I'm earning money for doing like that. That's incredible. But I never lost sight of, but I want to do London. I started to become aware because of sort of entering the cruise industry that, you know, it's actually, you know, quite an appealing prospect for a performer to then stay on the cruise ships. You've not got the bills to pay, you're not paying rent. You you can save and save and save during that contract. You're seeing amazing parts of the world. You're getting to dance and perform and sing while you do that. I mean, really, a big part of it is the dream. It's not a bad gig, is No, it's not. And it's very tempting. It would have been very tempting to stay and to do more contracts. a lifestyle, I can imagine you just fall into that and go, yeah, this isn't bad. Yeah, exactly. But there was always that voice in my back of the head, which was, this is great and it's good and I'm learning and I'm getting that experience, but it is not, it's not the end goal. Okay. Yeah. So you're seven months on the ship. Yeah. Tell me then as you start to, what opportunities, what doors did that open for you? Because I'm aware we're still at 21. I know, that mental? We've got a little bit of time to bridge and I want to give everything the right amount of respect it deserves too. So let's say your entry to getting paid work is on the cruise ship. what's the next step for you? What opportunities does that afford you to progress? Interestingly, I would say it probably didn't give me a lot of onward opportunities just naturally, no foot in the door anywhere apart from the fact that I get back to London, I'm back to the auditioning world and now I've got one thing on my CV. Okay, yeah. And literally that's the only extra thing it gave me. Of course, personally, it gave me lot of experience. It was a bonus, I would say that... the role of dance captain was on there because they will look at that and see that there was more responsibility in that role. So potentially you are someone that can take on more responsibility within a show or within a cast. But it's a cruise ship at the end of the day. Do you mind me asking what the perception was of the rest of the industry that maybe hadn't gone down that route? Was there a negative perception that that would happen or did everyone, was everyone accepting of the fact, well, that's a route and that is actually paid work doing this? Interestingly, I think now they have a better reputation. Okay. I think back then I think it was seen to be the How do I put it? Yeah, I just wonder if there was a bit of a stigma around it. That was on your CV. I'm not saying it drew completely or detracted from it, but it was just like, okay. Yeah, that's kind of that. But basically it's not West End. It's a cruise ship. Even though I would say there's probably no knowledge of the work that it entailed. Like those shows were some of the hardest I've ever done in my life physically. You know, you're not off the stage. The quick change is even harder than the physical energy you're on the stage. It's nonstop. So it's some of the hardest work still to this day I've ever done, not necessarily perceived or appreciated for that when you're then going for like a Western role or something. And I guess you'd benefit from someone maybe in part that auditioning process having lived that experience themselves because they're like, yeah, okay, look, whatever your perception is, this person has worked their ass off. They've gone through more shit than most when they've had to deal with this. Yeah, I just wonder if there's a stigma without knowing anything about the industry. think less so now. I felt like it was more so back then. Okay, cool. So you're back, start auditioning, you've got something on the resume. Yeah. And what happens next? So then, and I've made the decision, I'm doing the London thing. Okay. So you're holding out now. If another cruise ship opportunity comes out, you're like, no, I'm holding out for London. Well, that's what I thought. Yeah. That was the goal. Until the next audition comes along and you need another free class and I this time it was I went for the audition knowing that it was for Carnival, which is based out over in the us Yeah, and I did get offered a ship and that was in and out of Miami doing the eastern and western caribbean. We're talking big big Big firms, big routes as well, aren't we? Like, really well travelled, audiences, all of these things. Wow. Okay. And I think ultimately, I think after coming back from London and thinking I would be a bit more ahead and then not necessarily being more ahead and having to do some of the old part-time jobs again, I think I was just thinking, do you know what? I just want to dance again while I can, while I'm fit, while I'm healthy, while I'm here. I want to dance. So I said yes and I did that contract and also saw that part of the world, which you know, felt very fortunate. The funny thing was they also asked me if I would take on like a, I wasn't dance captain specifically, but they asked me if I would do like some management training or something. And I was like, no, just not. yes to every opportunity, but right now I think at that point in my life, I thought I was bad in inverted commas at being any sort of leader. And I didn't want any responsibility. I just wanted to enjoy the job and not have that extra stuff. So I said no to that. Had the time of my life on board doing some of like the dream performances that like flashdance like the same thing. You know, as a girl growing up, I watched that and I watched that and I watched that and visualized me doing it. And then you're on the stage doing it. You just think, I'm so glad I said yes. Yeah, great. got a funny story there, I tell you? Please. So when you look at performers on stage you often think it looks quite glamorous and but obviously you know it's not really. Yeah, I guess you know more than me. You've got a sense of it's not really I'm sure it's glamorous as I think it is. course. So we're about to start the performances on the Carnival ship and I've got this flash dance solo and I'm over the moon because I've watched it growing up and I can't wait. The set was these clear perspex steps going up to the back of the stage, but they went in a triangle shape. So I just had a small triangle platform at the back of the stage at the top. Got progressively smaller as it led up. And I'm in heels and I've got a chair. So living the dream, I finished the number. Now this was in our tech rehearsal, finished the number over the chair, feeling fabulous. Blackout. And I've got to get off this stage. and down these clear perspex steps in heels with this chair without anyone knowing because then the next people are coming on for the next number. So blackout, I cannot see a thing, but I know I've got to be quick. I've to get off this stage. So my plan was to just step and pray. And I did, I managed one step, the second step, my heel went, donk, donk, donk, donk, donk, donk. all the way to the bottom, the chair behind me, dunk, dunk, dunk, dunk, dunk, dunk on me. am flat on the floor as the lights come on. rehearsal, there's me in my costume, I'd looked ever so glamorous 30 seconds before crawling off the stage. was a highlight. Bruised, battered. Ready for a quick change to get back on the other side. bless you, wow. Yeah. But yeah, no, can imagine that's a good, like more the gritty side of it. mean, it's yeah, humbling, can imagine. Yeah. And great that it happened in a rehearsal. Yeah. Okay. From a practicality standpoint, then how do you make sure that doesn't happen? What steps can you take to do that? not have to black out? Do you know what? In every show you've got to think of everything else that's going on backstage, all the work that they do. Ever after that, I remember a guy called Gilbert, he was amazing. Literally, black out, the torch went on to show and I could then see a clear path. Torch went on, literally he reached his hand out as far as he could. That being obvious that I was like being helped every time and he literally grabbed me every time and got me off safely. Nice. Never happened again. Thank God. So, so yeah. You might have had a shorter career if it had happened every night. Exactly. Yeah. And thank God, no injury, nothing, just a lot of bruises. Okay. So I could carry on after that. Brilliant. That's good to hear. So fast forward again. Now we're doing London. Okay. That's the decision. Yeah. And I stick to it this time. Okay. Great. be pleased to know. A third time, third time lucky in whatever way we're going to describe it. Yeah. So I get back and I suppose I'd always thought that I would just do musical theatre type work but actually I got back and I was just open to auditioning for different things and I ended up doing some commercial work, some music videos, things I didn't really expect. I did the opening ceremony of the Olympics. nice, okay. And that was actually for a choreographer that I know, a hip-hop choreographer who is incredible and that's not me. Okay. Remember I said like I loved ballet that makes you sort of very upright a bit more stiff Whereas you know hip hop and that commercial world. You've just got to be so much more fluid and relaxed in your body So it's not what would come naturally to me, but I will work until I've got something so I remember auditioning for a choreographer for the opening ceremony of the Olympics and you know Olympics is huge Everyone wants to be a part of it and I want to be on that stage on on the opening ceremony. I auditioned for the choreographer that I think their style most suits what I can do and I don't get it. And my agent called and I just, and I said, what else can you do? Who can you get me in to see to potentially get, I just want to audition for anyone. And she said this particular choreographer who is amazing. And I thought, my God, this will be the hardest one I've ever done. And I went into that audition room and musically he hears things that you just. you can't imagine and then interprets it into his body and it is so intricate and so clever and so hard. I have never ever ever thought about walking out of an audition. I'll stay till the end but that one I'm telling you now I was about to go. I was so ready to go because it felt impossible to me and at that moment he recognised me. and he had actually been a choreographer for one of the step-up films. I know if you remember those. I remember them well, So again, I had auditioned for that a few years before, got right down to the workshop stage, then didn't get the film. he remembered me. And I remember thinking, well, that's so amazing that you've remembered me, but I hope I haven't. I really want to leave. No, exactly, but I just want to walk out the door. The one time I don't want to be noticed. I just want to get out. Exactly. And then after that, I got the job with him. Wow. So certain jobs I never expected that I would do. So things like that happened. And then now I'm fast forwarding to really where I would say Korea took a turn. Go for it, yeah. So I get offered Ant & Dex Saturday Night Takeaway Arena Tour. Okay, yep. Seven years after P &O Australia, I get the contract through. On the day that I get engaged to Dean Bardrick, I'm quite tipsy. this is becoming a thing. I am quite tipsy at this point. Because he's just proposed, Dee Lardric, he's proposed, we're in Cornwall, we're by the beach, this is amazing. And mum and dad have got this contract that's come through for me, so I have a look, and as I open this contract, it says to Lucy Gilbert, I was then, dancer and dance captain. Again? Right. So at this, and I have not said yes to any dance captain opportunity, any sort of, you know, position of responsibility since the dreaded Piano Australia. Yes. And I hadn't been asked if I wanted to, it just came through on the contract. And this is a story, so I think this I'll tell you because I think it highlights that who you know does matter and how you show up really matters. So when I had gone into that audition room, one of the guys, one of the choreographers that was taking that audition started teaching at performers after I had left. So he didn't know me well, but he would have known that I was at performers. Then he had gone back to performers and said, these are the people I'm considering. Who would you say would be a good dance captain for this? I had worked with two of the teachers at Performers College on UK tours. One was a tap show, one was a Michael Jackson show. And both of them said, choose Lucy, she'll be able to do it. And so therefore I got offered dance captain. And it's so funny that these people thought I could do it and I was the one thinking I can't do this. But again, I'm seven years on. I had started my business since then, so I'd actually started to learn. I had a bit about personal development, a bit about leadership, and I just thought, do you know what? I'm going to say yes to the opportunity. So I did. And then it was actually that that unlocked the next part of my career, which again took another turn. You mentioned starting a business as well. Yes. I'm trying to think how to best separate this because they are this synergy because they overlap and they are intertwined, but they are different aspects of what it is you do. I think, I think we'll go into it now because there's something to be said for running them concurrently. So trying, you know, keeping this career going in something that you are truly passionate about, not to say you're not with what else you do, which we'll cover in a second and starting something to build something for yourself too. So when did this venture start? How were you introduced to it? What is it first off? How are you introduced and then what led to that building too? So I was 25 years old. So I'd done the cruise ships. was back in London pursuing the career, various different shows. We're two years off Ant and Deck-ish. So 25, Ant and Deck happened when I was, was that 26 or 27? 27 I think. Okay. Yeah. So we're a couple of years off Ant and Deck, the contract coming through. So 25. I'm 25. I've done some shows, some tours in London since being back from the cruise ships. nothing that paid like awfully well but I had been working and again loving tour life as well really enjoyed it but financially it was still a struggle it was still tight rent was so much in London yeah it still felt hard even though I was working yeah now I had worked for a friend of mine called Melanie Dean she had her own production company within the industry I had worked on shows for her before And I remember coming back from one of the tours and had a phone call from her and she said, Lucy, I really want to speak to you about an opportunity. I think you'd be amazing at this. And I remember thinking, finally, like, you know, she, I'm probably going to be a lead role in some new show. So absolutely. I'll go, I'll go and meet you. And I met her in London one day after taking class at pineapple and I walked in and I remember seeing products on a table. I remember thinking, this is strange. Why are there? why are there personal care products on a table? I don't really understand what this is. And then went and sat down with her and then heard this information about this opportunity, this brand that was a health and wellness brand and that gave people the opportunity to use those products, share the brand, share the opportunity and build a business alongside whatever you do. I didn't have to give up anything I did. And I remember at the end of it thinking, this is absolute genius. And I remember thinking, I never knew that an opportunity like this existed for someone like me. Because I had no business background knowledge. I used products, I had to wear makeup for stage and I used products, but honestly, they were the cheapest thing I could find. I didn't really care if they were good for me or not. I was, you know, if there was buy one, get 10 free. I was all over it. So that's where I was. So I thought, you know, am I going to be good at this? Because this is a product based business in the health and wellbeing industry. Something I don't know anything about but what I did understand was that up until that point the only ways that I had knew how to work and earn money were to either be Employed and have to trade my time to earn money. And if I stopped earning up, sorry stopped working. I stopped earning. Yeah, end of it or Being self-employed. So effectively I then had lots of different jobs. And again, if I didn't show up to work there was no money. The money stopped. was still trading my time to earn money. Whereas what this business was, was an opportunity that I could put the work in, build a client base, also build a team if I wanted to. And then I could be on tour, potentially I could, or I could be on holiday in Cornwall with family and my clients would be ordering their products online. you've still got that revenue and that income coming in. would be out there sharing these amazing products and this brand with their network and my business would be growing but I wouldn't be there. It's the dream. my gosh, my gosh it's a dream. but this concept was so new to me I did not understand it before I walked in that room but when I walked in that room I trusted her and I knew she was a smart intelligent woman who already had her own business and if she was doing this it was something worth looking into. And of course, the biggest thing for me at that point was I don't want to start a business to stop doing what I'm doing because I love my career. Yes, it can be a nightmare and it doesn't pay me what I feel like I'm worth, but I love it. you maybe were motivated at that point by having a bit more consistency of income, a bit more security coming through too. So another stream is not going to be something you're going to say no to, especially if it's a friend and somebody you trust and admire. And also this idea, and I really got this, that when you build a business, it is up to you. You're gonna get out what you put in and it is gonna take hard work and it isn't gonna be easy and it's not gonna be convenient. And I remember thinking, well, I know how to work like that. Like that's basically the industry that I'm in already. And I am willing to work hard and I am willing to do what's not convenient to make sure that it does work and I make it work. And... I remember thinking I was going to get paid based on my effort. And that was so appealing because I could be in a show and I could be stood next to a person one night that you know in that show and I could be giving it a hundred and ninety nine percent, which I would do every night when I was on stage. You just have all of me out there. Never hold back. That's it. I'm all in. But I could be performing next to someone that might be a bit hungover, might be giving it twenty nine percent that night, but we get paid the same. And I remember thinking That's not right. I should get paid or I want to get paid what I feel like I'm worth and I know I'm worth more. So if this is an opportunity that allows me to build something that has the potential to do that, that doesn't take away from performing, I'm in. I think, again, there's a lot that I can understand and kind of identify myself of how I'm driven and motivated to. First off your point about being the driver to make money, but only if you show up. So you having to be behind something all the time. that's, if you can find a way of making money or bringing in income where you don't have to be front and center the face of something constantly. God, it frees up so much. There's stresses that come with it, don't get me wrong, as you well know, but that appeals to me. It is something that I'm still striving for to this day. Which is part of the reason I hired. Your husband, Baldrick. That leverage, that leverage. That's the thing, like, and I remember sort suddenly understanding the concept of the business was I would rather earn 1 % of 100 people's efforts than just 100 % of just my own. Yeah. Because the second you take me out of the equation, there's nothing. It all collapses, doesn't it? Yeah. Whereas if I have a system and a structure and a way by I can help others also succeed and effectively duplicate myself. Yeah. I've suddenly got leverage. I've never... Billed almost in your image. Right. Not clones, but you know what I mean. Maybe the way you work or the way you present something or whatever it is. Teach them the same simple system. They will do it their way. And like you say, we're all different. So they will be a different leader. They will build their business differently to me. No one's business looks the same. But there is a simple system that you can follow that will build a business. Yeah. And if I can teach them how to do that and encourage them to then, you know, fly with it. effectively I've then duplicated myself and that person has a whole network of people that I don't know. That's, that's the dream because of that. I now have like a business in Canada, but I never knew people in Canada, but I knew someone that did. And now there's business there and not because I built it. I just told the person and helped the person that then went over there and built it. just shows that importance of connection, doesn't it? And the. power of your networks, I think. And you've experienced that through your career in performing arts too, which is go full circle, two people that performers have said, you need to work with Lucy on this, which then was the foundation for the next part of your career, which we'll go back to in a second, to then starting with this. And that same mentality, I can imagine is a huge benefit. Can we say who it is you're working for? tell us who it is you're working So the brand is Arbonne. Right. And they've been around since 1980, so 44 years now, in that health and wellbeing space. And they basically started out actually in skincare originally. So the founder of Arbonne was a Norwegian botanist. And he had worked for some very prestigious brands. But back then in 1980, what he realized was that there were a lot of brands that were using a lot of ingredients that maybe gave people results, but weren't necessarily good for us. Yeah. So that was kind of a new way of thinking. Actually. Yeah. It, it makes me very proud to work along a side of the brand that was that way of thinking from the beginning. The original clean brand. And of course now everyone is looking for clean. Everyone is looking for green, sustainable, non-toxic. But back in 1980, he had this vision of Well, why don't I start my own brand? Why don't I create my own skincare range? That's where it started. And actually, rather than putting it to market via retail, which would bulk up that price point even more, I could give people, the people using the products, the opportunity to earn from using this brand and sharing the brand. Which again, that's so forward thinking as well. so forward thinking. So. That was the original vision. And then of course, from there it expanded. It's gone from skincare to body care, now in vegan nutrition. But it was, they were vegan from day one. And no synthetic nasties, completely botanically based, but the best of science. So you get the clinical results, you get the results that you're paying your money for, but without the nasties in there to make that happen. And then now this is something I'm super proud of, because I think this is a big thing. So they're now a certified B corporation. I'm so passionate about this. So a certified B Corp, I didn't know what it was when they said, we now are one, but basically they, through a very lengthy process have proven that they consider people and the planet in every decision that they make. They're not just profit, a profit focused company. And only I've remembered this because it just blew my mind. 0.002 % of companies globally meet the standards required to be a certified B Corp and Arbonne is one of them. And I remember thinking like, just imagine living in a world where every company was held to those high standards. You'd be in a more sustainable planet, a greener place, a cleaner place. It's such an undertaking to become certified. Yes, yes. A couple of the clients that I work with funnily enough are are certified or accredited. I think for a company of a certain size it has to be on their agenda. But for a lot of people the barrier to get there is really high and there's a lot of hurdles and then that starts to impact the motivation to actually go down that route. But it's incredible. So just tell us in terms of your performance with an Arbonne, you've done pretty well haven't you? from the sounds of it. Like it's, guess you get in what you, you get out what you put into it and it feels like you've really committed to that journey and the mission they're on. So I, so basically I reached the top 1 % of the company after eight and a half years of building my business. And that's not typical. It's not, but so many people start a business like Arbonne, you know, and Arbonne isn't unique. There are other, you know, people will know of other brands that you can become an ambassador for a brand. And I remember, hearing the potential with the opportunity when I first heard it. And so many people will hear it and think, okay, this could be a few, an extra few hundred pounds per month, pay the mortgage or whatever it is for that person. But I think this is just my personality. I heard what was possible and my thought was why not me? I can do that. I can do that. If I don't give up, I can do that. So eight and a half years to the top 1%. And interestingly, just to sort of coincide with the performing career as well, it was actually eight years till the Ant & Dec contract that was my big break. So both in performing arts and in my business, I needed, this is just me, I needed eight years of being all in and doing it before I actually sort of reached that tipping point. But again, going back to the point that your parents instilled in you, having a love for it day to day without this constant focus on the end result. or the byproduct of it, it probably allowed you to stay consistent, have that adherence which you need to get to that point in the first place. So it's a quality that you've obviously been taught and then rolled with throughout your life. And that just reminded me of something as well, which I think the reason why the business grew is because so many of the qualities I think you need to succeed in the performing arts industry are also needed in business. I didn't know that. Transferable. Yeah. But resilience is so, so, important. And you have to be able, I believe, to learn how to fail and fail forward, not see failure as like an end point or something that's telling you that you're not good at something. So going back to being a kid before I even left for performing arts college and wanting to take ballet more seriously, I did the major examination. So it's just much harder to pass these examinations. And so far in my little dance school, I've been the one that's got top marks and, you know, brilliant in my exams. I take this major ballet exam and I failed. And I remember being absolutely just devastated. What would I be? Maybe 13 or something. And then, and mum and dad, you know, were there and, know. taught me and I although I knew it I was like the only option is to go again the only option is to go again so I took this exam again and I ended up then getting the the top mark and I remember like crying with happiness but learning in that moment that you have to learn how to fail forward success is not going to be a straight line anything but it's going to be a lot of ups and downs but if anything that success felt so much better and greater because I'd failed the first time round. Yeah. And in business and in my experience in Arbonne, it's very easy for people to quit after the first or second or third or fourth or fifth, you know, failure in their minds if it's not working. And in business, my gosh, you have to be so stubborn, so resilient. be so determined to learn from those failures to get better the next time and keep going. And of course, when I started my business, I didn't know it, but I already had that quality because I'd already learned in performing arts. If I want to make this work, I've got to go to 99 auditions and hear 99 no's and then go to my, be determined to go to my 100th one in case it's my yes. So it transferred. They're just such amazing qualities. And I think what a nice kind of... Yeah, learning curve for you to go on and to have that support from your parents to have gone through that process and had that quality instilled in you throughout. think is great. And you've obviously benefited from that. You talk a lot about mindset. Yeah. So let's talk about another venture that you're also working on, which is quadruple threat. Quadruple threat. So talk to me about that. Cause that's, that's mindset is at the heart of that, isn't it? So talk to me about that. And this is almost really the baby. It's something that's growing and something that I'm finding, but During the pandemic, Performance College, where I trained at, asked me if I would do a Zoom and talk to the students. It must've been so, so hard for them during that time because there's no studio for them to mean, what an industry to be in at that point, especially new in that industry, not even having found your feet yet. That's it. And they're, you know, trying to do their ballet classes at home in the living room. They're trying to make it work in whatever way they could to carry on training. So Performance College got some ex-students in to speak to them about their journeys, et cetera. So I did that and then performers said, would you come back and help out on our degree course? so I went back and did some mentoring on the degree course. And while I was there, I realized that what hadn't changed at college since I had been there 20 years previous was in my opinion, and I don't think this is exclusive to performing arts, but tenacity trumps talent every time. And the thing that would either make my career or break my career. was what lay upstairs in my mind, how strong that was. It wasn't actually down to how talented I was. That played a part. But if I wanted a long career, if I wanted to be in it, you know, for as long as I possibly could, then I needed to sort this out upstairs. I needed to sort out my mindset. And when I started Arbonne, age 25, I had never picked up a personal development book before then. I didn't know they existed. The amazing thing about Arbonne was that I didn't know I was going to get this free education alongside building a business and they recommended some of the most amazing book I'd recommend to anyone and everyone because it applied to everything and started to learn the power of my mindset and that life isn't happening to me there's no point blaming this that and everything else on how well I am doing or not it's up to me and actually it is in my control and the moment I take responsibility for how I show up, how I think, then things change. Like things change. But what I realized was is that at Performing Arts College, what hadn't changed was that they're still training their bodies, their voices, their acting skills, day in, day out for hours upon hours upon hours. And the one thing that could take them out of their game, their mindset, they spend no time training whatsoever. And I personally think it's a necessity. So. in the industry, you want to be a triple threat. You want to be an amazing dancer, amazing at singing, amazing at acting if you're going to succeed in musical theatre. But I think they're missing the crucial factor of your mindset. So I created Quadruple Threat and I started to go into performers and create courses for them to help them build a resilient mindset for the world in which they're going to be. Yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing as a concept. think it's crazy in a way that it hasn't been focused on to date and maybe you could argue that it has been your experience of something that isn't necessarily related to that world and the crossover of it in seeing the synergy if you can blend those two aspects then you've got, yeah, it's like really strong and formidable there. But if you think about it in sport, if I wasn't a dancer I would have been a sportswoman. love sport as well. I'm very inspired by sports people and also have read a few books on mindset where, you know, the sporting world has taken on board people that do train them, their mindset as well as their physical bodies. And it makes the world of difference to their results. Yeah, you're right. So sports psychology is such a huge area now. And I'd argue they are spending as much time working on Mindset and their approach mentally than they are the physical side of it. Yeah, because I think it's the difference I do I think you're right. Yeah Wow, okay, so we've got more on that to come I guess so watch this space for how that grows and everything like that now I'm conscious of time. I just want you to give me some of the credits that you've worked on So after the Ant and Dec opened up the next chapter of your career in that space, give us some of the credits of things that you've worked on. Yeah, so after Ant and Dec, the creative director on that show was then asked to choreograph Walt Disney's remake of Beauty and the Beast with Emma Watson. I've heard of it. Yeah. So he was asked to choreograph the film. And because I had just worked with him and Ant and Dec went really well, he asked if I would be one of his assistant choreographers on the film. So all of a sudden I've gone from, you know, theatre into musical films and we're so lucky here. We've just had these resurgence of musical films that are filming in the UK. So I was very, very fortunate that that was happening at that time. So Beauty and the Beast happened first. Then after Beauty and the Beast, Anthony, the choreographer, was then asked to choreograph Mamma Mia, Here We Go Again, the second film. So she had choreographed the original musical in town. And then he had choreographed the first film 10 years previous. And then he was asked to choreograph the second film. And again, it coincided with this period of time when I was working with him. So he asked if I would be the assistant choreographer on that contract. Amazing. I was pregnant on that contract. I was going to ask when the kids arrived as well. Yeah, so this was Bowen? Yeah, okay. This was Bowen, number one. And I actually, he asked me about Mamma Mia and I said, yes, of course I'd love to do this. We had two weeks off. I went to call him with Dean and then just felt a bit funny. Just felt a bit funny. I said, Dean, just, Dean Bardrick, I think I need to take a test. I don't know if this has really happened, but I think it might've happened. And I was pregnant. And I said, have to tell Anthony straight away. And Dean, Dean Bardrick, he's got a corporate background. So he said, you know, you don't have to tell them until, you know, 12 weeks. I said, no, no, no, no, I do. This is different. I can't live with this. can't live with this. I'm going to be rehearsing. I'm going to be doing lifts and like, you know, all of it. I was like, I've got to, I've got to say. So I was very honest with them and I said it and Anthony said to me, he said, well, that's amazing. He said, do you think you can do it? And I was like, yeah. Yeah, of course. I had never been pregnant before. I did not have a clue what was about to follow. Yeah. Morning sickness in the car on the M25 on the way to the studios. God, wow. Glamorous. Glamorous, the glamorous life. So I started the Mamma Mia Here We Go Again film just having found out I was pregnant. We finished filming in the December. I was out here and then gave birth on the 1st of February. Wow. It's amazing. mean, what I would tend to do, you go on to talk about how having kids changed your approach. I feel like we've touched upon that, like just your approach to parenting in general. We've had that conversation towards like earlier on in the podcast. But did it force you to reevaluate when you had Bowen and then subsequently Ruben as well? Did it force you to reevaluate what was important, reprioritize? Definitely it has to in some way shape or form doesn't it changed me it absolutely changed me After I had Bowen I did one more film I worked on Maleficent 2 doing some choreographic work on Maleficent 2 that was a short stint which I could do because I was feeding Bowen I was feeding Bowen and I needed to You know when Dean was there with me and I was go I'd go out and feed and then come back and back in the rehearsal room and off we go but that was a short stint and what I realized was, and then actually I fell pregnant with Ruben soon after that. So then all of a sudden there's two under two. And it was a different world. And like I said, I was a different person. And what I realized in that moment was, if I went back into theater, I could do these things if I chose to, but if I went back into theater, I'd be out every evening, I'd be back very, very late, needing to sleep in in the mornings, I wouldn't see them. as much as I wanted to. If I went back into film, unless I was lucky with a very, short contract again, you know, it's very long days. It's sometimes six or seven day weeks. Again, I just wouldn't see them. And what I realized when I became a mum is that I felt like the luckiest woman on the planet to have had the career in the performing arts that I had had up until that point. And I just, I knew at that point that being a mummy was my priority then. It was my number one, it was everything. And interestingly at that point, when I started Arbonne, all those years previous, age 25, I had no idea that it would be the vehicle for me to have time with my family. But also as an ambitious woman, still have something that was mine that I could build that I could grow and work on but from home when they were asleep when I was feeding them if I needed to it would give me the flexibility to do that so I didn't know Arbonne was going to be that for me when I originally said yes to it and building a business but at that moment it was my business that gave me the freedom and the flexibility to be an all-in mum whereas performing arts would have been much more restrictive. There's a sacrifice either way, isn't there? You're either sacrificing saying no to opportunities that really you know if you want to progress in that field you have to say yes to. Yes, yes. In that case you're sacrificing time with your kids. Yes. And that's, yeah, I mean that's very hard to weigh up, isn't it? It is. But I would probably say for a lot of people then kids become the priority and you make changes. Yeah. as you say it sounds like Arbonne and that opportunity really gave you, as you... describe it that vehicle, that chance to channel your energies into something. So you are not, and I mean this respectfully, but just, and I'm using air quotes, just a mum, just a parent. And you still have these aspirations and goals and ambitions. Yeah. And I personally think being a mum is the best, most rewarding thing I have ever done in my life. I think it's the best, most rewarding thing in the world. And that was from... coming from someone that was so in love with what I did. You know, I didn't know how I was going to feel actually when I became a mum, but it became my everything. But, and there is a but, I still wanted to build something that was mine and that I could work on and have a sense of purpose with alongside the insane purpose that I had of being a mum. And I think that was the magical thing about the business for me is that I never thought I would love anything as much as I loved performing. But the only aspect I've spoken about about Arbonne and the business side of things so far really is that it's a product business in the health and wellbeing industry. But the most rewarding thing about my business for me is that the only way I could succeed was by helping other people succeed. That is the aspect of the business that I love more than anything else. keeps you going back to it and keeps you invested. And that's given me such purpose. But fortunately, it doesn't overtake or override my time with my family as a mum. If anything, it's given me time with them. Can ask you a question? Yeah. When you teed up the butt thing, I don't if you were looking at how to frame that in the best way, but how do you feel when you admit out loud? Yeah. that as well as being a mum and that being the best job, that you've still got this part of you that wanted to build something yourself. I just picked up on something when you said that. There's not discomfort around there, but how do you feel when you're describing that, the sort of split between being a mum and then wanting to channel your ambitions into something else as well? I suppose it is just that acknowledgement that I think for very long time, a lot of women... have felt like it's meant to be enough that you are a mum and you shouldn't want to do anything else necessarily. But I feel like I am just this very driven person, a very ambitious person. And I think it's important to know that if you can still be the most amazing mother, but still have a drive to do something else if you want to. And actually, is that not an incredible thing for your children to witness? and to see. But I also fully appreciate that that is, that's my personal thing. That's how I feel. And I can completely understand how some parents also want to be all in parents and that is everything and that is also okay. Yeah. I had to ask because I saw you frame it and I was thinking there's something going on there because I think what you're fundamentally the message that you're delivering there is you can be both. Yeah. And for a long time, think the stigma around what you're you're not just going to be fully committed to your kids and only focus on that. That whole perception around it is that if you do one or the other, you're not fully committed to both, but you can be. I think that you're a great example of that. And I'm sat across here and I can see people can't see this, but you can see the passion there and on the very obvious drive that you have to be. Invested in both and you can be and I for a long time women specifically The narrative around is that you can't yeah, so we're kind of breaking that that's not this podcast, but just like society now We're starting to break that down. That's it And I think it's it's really important that there that if that's how you feel if that's what you want to do Then you just do it regardless of how you think other people may perceive it Yeah, if it's what you want to do, you've got to do it. Hmm. You've got to do it and I I feel passionate about the fact that you can have it all. really do feel that. I get that there are sacrifices along the way, but I think I can't do this because I'm doing that is actually an excuse. I don't think that's true. No, I agree. I've spoken to so many inspiring mums. and inspiring dads as well, but inspiring moms on this podcast that have definitely are all hyper aware and hyper conscious of this narrative around, you do both? spoke to a lady called Charlotte Sayer, Charlotte de Bon Sayer, to give her a full name, who owns and operates a wedding venue called The Boundary. And I speaking to her about this kind of, it's almost like the shame that some people feel when they have to admit that they've got aspirations beyond just being a parent. And it's almost like, I've got I want to do this, but I've got to say in hushed tones because for fear of judgment from other parties. And we're just breaking that down. think it's okay to do both. That's fine. Definitely. And I listened to an amazing podcast, Debbie Neal. She's an incredible leader actually within the network marketing industry. And actually when she shares her story and she shares that very real, very honest moment of when she was a stay at home mum of four children, but then suddenly had this realization that I want more. Yeah. Yeah. I found that so empowering to listen to. Her honesty and that vulnerability in that moment of being so honest and I feel like the more people that are brave enough to be that honest is the best thing. Because even the word more, I want more. I want more. That's hard. That's hard to say out loud. I can see even there, I want more. I've got everything. Like actually, societally, I've got everything. I've got kids. I'm not saying that's right, but that's been the message, that's been the story for so long. So to say you want more, well what is it, having a family not enough for you? So there's that stigma still isn't there? is, and I actually, I can't remember where I last said this, but I feel like I said this somewhere recently on a training that I realised it when I started my business, I realised actually the bottom line was that I wanted more. I wanted more money, I wanted more time, I wanted more flexibility, yes I want more, and I'm willing to work for it. I'm not just expecting it to land on my lap. I'm willing to work for it and it is absolutely okay to want more. It doesn't take it away from anyone else. If anything, I feel like when you live your biggest life, all it does is give people evidence that it's possible. It also gives people, I think, to go do it too, if you want. It's a really good point. It's those behaviors that you're role modeling and it's the real life evidence that people need to see to go, I can do that. Yes. Yes. And actually it was a big thing for me. It has been a big thing for me in 13 years of business. is seeing other people go before me and going and having that thought of if they can, I can. And it's one of the most empowering thoughts you can ever have. It's like when you're inspired by like watching the Olympics or seeing people achieve great things. Do you know what? If they can, I can. Yeah. Yeah. You need to see it, don't you? You need to see it then have someone do it. Everyone's going to be a first at something or whatever it is. And then it sort of paves the way. Right. We're approaching the end. So I've got one game that I've introduced. I know I'm mixing it up a little bit and then we've got the the closing tradition on the podcast. What I will make reference to is the fact that you are we mentioned it grew up in Cornwall. You're right now on the precipice of going back to Cornwall. Yes, which I'm sure brings up and we've mentioned your parents Lucy and I don't I don't want to spend too much on this because I appreciate it's still gonna be a very raw subject for you. But recently you lost your lost your mum. you're returning home to Cornwall and you're setting up life there and I'm losing my number one employee from the office and he's going back to Cornwall, or going to Cornwall too. But I guess now is the time for you to carry on growing the business you built with Arbonne. And also quadruple threat, we're going to start seeing more time channeled into that too. Is this the plan for you? Yeah, I really hope so. That is definitely something that I need to invest more time in because I really believe in it and I'm passionate about it. And then I suppose the other thing is I'm very passionate about giving back to the performing arts in Cornwall, like making sure there is more there. I'd love it if people were like, rather than thinking, we've got to leave Cornwall to go and get this or this masterclass or whatever. I love the idea of bringing it to Cornwall. So people from around the country go like, right, we're going down to Cornwall for that. Yeah. Cause how much has changed? Cause we're talking about Miss Anette and I'm saying that, okay, but I don't think from what I know, I would still say however many years on you're still in the same position where you have to go to London to make it work for you. So I think it's a really, really great idea and great. Thing to be able to channel some energy into as well giving back to that community. That's it And it's the giving back thing that really excites me now because people have said to me before Wouldn't you want to like open a dance school or do something here where we are now in Essex? I've said honestly for some reason it doesn't inspire me I don't feel inspired to do that and I think it's honestly because there is so much here. I was gonna say another one There's so much here there's so much opportunity for young people to get involved and Whereas I feel massively inspired to do more with that and give back more in Cornwall where I'm from, the place that gave me so much, but to give back there. Yeah. It's amazing. Honestly, sat opposite you as well, you just feel like enthused. Like I've been like the last couple of weeks of work has been really hard and it's been a real challenge, but there is some, you emanate something and I'm like, I'm gonna do some stuff after this. This has been really like it's just motivating speaking to you So I've got no doubt you'll do all of the things that you want to want to end up doing. thank you Okay, let's play this game. So I'll just introduce the game of this or that so I'm ask you ten questions You've got two options. You have to pick them quickly. That's the caveat. You have to choose fast. decision maker. This is the issue. This is gonna test that then. So I've tried to relate them to the vaguely, tenuously to what it is that you've done throughout your career. Are you ready? I think so. Question number one. Choreographing a dance or performing it yourself? Performing it myself. Big film production or intimate theatre performance? Big film. Mindset coaching or physical training? Physical training. Leading a dance class or leading a business seminar? Business seminar. Morning, personal or night out? Night Owl Standing Ovation or Rave Reviews? Standing Ovation Meryl Streep in Devil Wears Prada or Mamma Mia 2? Mamma Mia 2 Film Premio or Theatre Opening Night? Theatre Opening Night that was close Coaching Students or Choreographing Professionals? Choreographing Professionals Who's a better dancer, Luke Evans or Emma Watson? Luke Evans? I had to throw that in at the end, sorry. Can I just add a caveat to that? Luke Evans, theatre background, he's, you know... I mean, that's his world, isn't it? I think, yeah. I mean, it's a mean question, but I think that's definitely his world. Okay, right. Thank you for getting involved in that. That is the curve ball this season. I'm hoping no one really sees that coming. So that was nice. What you may... be expecting is the closing tradition which is mum's question. So let me find that. Hi Lucy, when you were involved in choreography, did you have it all in your head as a design before you started or was it something that developed as the work progressed? Thank you, I'd love to know. Wow, I wasn't expecting that. I was thinking more like maybe a Luke Evans or Emma Watson question but it's not. So, can you answer that? question. I can. So, on the two big films, I wasn't the choreographer. It was Anthony and I assisted him. And I know he has a vision before he starts. He's definitely a big thinker, big vision kind of person. Rather than like all the nitty gritty details, he's got a big vision. And then, as a team, you then... work together to create his vision. But he's the one with the vision. And then through what he's describing to me, I sort of find this vision and then try and help produce it in way, I can. In Maleficent 2, where I was doing some more choreography, same thing, I definitely had a vision. Listening to the music, knowing the characters, had a vision, but then it definitely developed. on the people, on those actors. I was going to say, because you can have all the vision in the world, you've got to work with the ability of actors. Let's say Emma Watson, for an example. I know we're talking about Beauty and the Beast, but not from a dancing background. So you're working with someone's ability to do it. If you've got Luke Evans, who's done it for most of his life, he's got a bit more in his arsenal as opposed to someone that hasn't come from that background. And there's so many different scenarios. Just cause it's funny, I'll tell you. Like I remember we started off with Be Our Guest for Beauty and the Beast. Now in that scenario, for the first time in my life, I'm thinking if I was a fork, how would I dance? How would I move? Where are my limbs? So it's very different process, but I would say normally there is a vision. Sometimes it wouldn't end up like that. And also it was, it was definitely us. trying to work to create that vision for that choreographer as well. Okay, I hope that answers your question mum. It was a good one, it was relevant to what you It was very relevant. She's getting better, that's good. Lucy, thank you so much. We've well over the time but every minute of that I really appreciate and it's been so good speaking to you, thank you. so funny, I'll go home tonight and I'll be like... story I didn't say that story that was a good one how could I have missed that out we can do that on the second episode yeah do that yeah another time thank you so much you're so welcome Thanks for listening to Jobsworth. If you enjoyed this episode, please feel free to give us a follow wherever you listen to your podcasts and while you're there. If you could take two seconds to rate the show, that would be awesome. You can follow Jobsworth on Instagram where you'll get teasers for upcoming episodes, some behind the scenes videos and the occasional bit of career inspiration. And if you'd like to learn more about my day job, then feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn.