Roll Boys Rising

In this episode, I sit down with George Artemi, founder of Roll Boys, who shares his journey from aspiring professional footballer to successful entrepreneur. George discusses the challenges he faced after being released from football, his experiences in the hospitality industry, and the personal struggles that led him to a turning point in his life. George also discusses the importance of self-discovery, the challenges of entrepreneurship and building a brand with heart and authenticity.

Takeaways

• Experiencing rock bottom can lead to profound personal growth.
• Self-discovery is a continuous process that requires introspection.
• Mental health awareness is essential in navigating life's ups and downs.
• Authentic relationships are vital for personal fulfilment.
• Embracing change can lead to unexpected opportunities.
• It's important to enjoy the journey, not just the destination.

Roll Boys

Website - https://rollboys.co.uk/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/rollboysldn/
TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@rollboysldn
YouTube- https://www.youtube.com/@ROLLBOYSTV

Keywords

George Artemi, football career, hospitality industry, mental health, personal growth, entrepreneurship, overcoming adversity, self-discovery, life lessons, resilience, plant medicines, psychedelics, Ayahuasca, personal journey, Roll boys, entrepreneurship, brand building, self-discovery, faith, belief

The JobsWorth website is here www.jobs-worth.com

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 2:03 The Rise and Fall of a Football Dream
• 10:00 Transitioning from Football to Hospitality
• 20:09 The Vine: Building a Nightlife Empire
• 27:52 Hitting Rock Bottom: The Turning Point
• 39:50 Rebirth and Self-Discovery
• 44:15 Exploring Plant Medicines and Psychedelics
• 50:10 The Journey to Ayahuasca Retreats
• 52:31 Listening to Yourself: A Turning Point
• 54:50 The Birth of Roll Boys: From Idea to Reality
• 1:00:25 The First Batch: Overcoming Doubts
• 1:11:19 Building a Brand with Heart
• 1:20:43 Advice for the Lost: Faith and Belief

Transcript

0:00

What do you do? Recruitment. So technology recruitment, I've been doing it for about 13 years. I talk about careers on the podcast and the whole premise is getting people to change their relationship with work. Which is something I think you're a perfect example of as well, so it'd good to have a chat with you. Brilliant. Get yourself comfortable in everything. Welcome to episode 3 of Jobsworth, season 3. This week I catch up with Rollboys founder George Artemi. Not heard of Rollboys yet? Trust me, if George has anything to say about it, you soon will. After following his childhood dreams of becoming a pro footballer, George was let go by Torquay United at the age of 20 and had to come to terms with the fact that the beautiful game just wasn't for him. So what happens when someone in their early 20s, someone who has forgone so many of the rites of passage we all go through as teenagers to focus on a single goal, has that taken away from them? Well, we talk about that. We also talk about George's experience running one of the premier night spots in Essex, the events that brought that chapter of his life to a close, a life-changing call in 2019, and his journey of rebirth shortly after. George is almost contagiously optimistic. It's hard not to listen to his story and feel inspired to do, well, something. That being said, we do discuss how someone with absolutely no baking skills whatsoever decides it's a good idea to build a business selling cinnamon rolls. Stay tuned for the answer. Prepare yourself for a very honest, very emotional, very human conversation with one of the most authentic people I've had on the podcast. And if you aren't on the Roll Boys bandwagon just yet, prepare to jump on that too. So without further ado, let me introduce you to the only guy who could walk through the center of Leon's Sea dressed as a banana and get away with it. George Artemi. When you were younger, what did you want to be when you grew up? So we'll start there. Okay, let's see, yeah, footballer man. Yeah, that was my dream. And then it became my identity. And then as I grew up through, I mean, I started playing at five. Wow. So... I was playing just Sunday league and just playing then just not really. I wasn't I wasn't getting anywhere really at a young age, but from 14 I signed for late in Orient and then that was my entry into like professional clubs. Yeah. And I was kind of like, I opened my eyes to like, all right, OK, this is possible now. Right. You know, being 14, you're starting to find like you start to become more of a teenager and heading into the adults. And yeah, it was just so. Something, yeah, 14 years old, signed for Latin Orient, and then that's where the kind of journey to actually trying to make that happen began. Did you have inspiration around you when you were younger? Was there anyone that played football, or did you just have parents or people around you that were like, yeah, go down that route? Obviously, drive, I would imagine. Taxiing you to where you need to go for it as well. Yeah, honestly, that was a big my dad was a massive Motivator for that right? He was the guy that took me everywhere. everywhere around the country that he supported me and through everything, you Like, I got released and I got in and it was like, come on, let's go again. And then he was driving me around to different trials at different clubs and then had a trial in Torquay and he's driving me all the way down there and eventually signed there. But when I was younger, he was very hard. Yeah, so very hard on me. I look at it now and... in two ways. Obviously it taught me a strong work ethic. But then at the other way it was like I ended up not having the childhood like the teenagers like a normal teenager would have. Yeah I'm already seeing, I'm already thinking about the differences that I would have experienced not having trials and training sessions and all those things with a view of maybe going pro at a sport in comparison to you. Yeah, at like 15, 16 I was hanging about in the street corners drinking Bacardi Breezers. Really? It wasn't a problem, but you know, that would probably be a different way of spending a Friday night for you that's doing your training sessions on Saturdays, Sundays and weekends taken up. But there was that little something inside of me, you know, when you go to the park and everyone's kind of like... drinking their Bacardi Brizio or Lambrini. Whatever we could get out. Yeah, Lambrini as Whatever was flying about. cheap bottles and stuff. I was there but I wasn't drinking. So I was always this footballer, know. That's what I mean about the identity. I was created at such a young age. was like, okay, that is me. Didn't drink, didn't touch anything. No girls. I was not... I was told, no, focus, focus, focus, focus, focus, focus. And that's what I mean. It kind of drove me into this position where I just, I didn't want to do anymore. So you got that as your North star then. So football is your identity, football is your goal. Signed for the O's, I've got a couple of friends that will be very happy about hearing that. And then how far down that road did you go then before you realised that wasn't? going to end up being your career because we're speaking to you now and you're not professional footballer and you haven't up to that certain level. So what happened? So I was 16 and I signed, I was 14 sorry and I signed for the under 16s. I signed until up to under 16s. So that's when you get your scholarship and I was doing amazing. I was playing really well. I was the captain of the under 14s and then the under 16s as well when I was there. And then, you know, football is very much a politics and a very much opinionated game, know, a judgment is always on you to perform. And I just couldn't please the one man in charge. I couldn't please the man who made the decision, the final decision. And with all the backing of the coaches that I had, the man that was a yes or a no to take me to the next level was a straight up no. Yeah, he didn't fancy me. yeah, that was my first real major setback in my life because I was looking on the up. So yeah, that was the end of that chapter. And that was the beginning of like going on trial with different clubs. Ultimately ending up in a place called Rushden and Diamonds, which is a football team, spent two years there, made my first team debut and then ultimately ended up being in very difficult position with that in terms of I didn't get along with the coaches and I didn't enjoy it and yeah I ended up getting released from there again. So that's second time, signed for Southend, spent a year there. released third time then went to talkie for another year yeah just under a year actually short-term contract how old are you at this stage I am now okay the talkie was 19 to 20 okay yeah so it was like that moment where I was at this club I knew the manager he liked me I just didn't quite cut it. There was players that were more experienced ahead of me. It was all that cliché and then people would talk about, I wouldn't have it if I got injured. Because of my injuries. I was more in the case of like, yeah, I did get injured a lot, up. But my head got swayed and I started to be in and around the wrong circles and the focus was lost. So yeah, that kind of was drawn back from it. then, yeah, it ended up. getting released from there as well and then dropped into the big world of non league football and go and figure it out for yourself. How was it coming to terms with that? I think like I said I go back to like the identity thing you know you create this identity as a footballer you live the life of a footballer and the only thing in your life is football. Every day you're training, you're training, you're playing and you're you've got the easy life of training half day, going home and then doing whatever you want to do in the afternoon. You walk around in your tracksuit, your club tracksuit and you think you're something. You feel like you're part of the football culture. And I look at youngsters now and I see that and like... Majority of people don't make it to be a professional footballer and then you're just dropped into this world of like alright So that is now just all of a sudden cutthroat Lee been taken away from me or terrible injuries Yeah, there's been taken away from me and now I'm left to go and figure out for myself and then you start dropping down the league and start playing in non-league and then That's a whole whole different category of Kelleher fish. So Yeah for me it was The moment when I really had to find out who I was as a person And that was a real challenge. Yeah, that's hard for anyone. Yeah Especially when you've been so Committed to doing one thing and then you realize that maybe that one thing isn't the thing you're gonna end up doing You start asking questions around who am I? How do I even recalibrate to find out the thing that I now want to do? That's really hard. was your dad at that stage as well? obviously if you've been a driving force towards that, it's becoming more more apparent that this isn't going to work out as a long-term career prospect for you. How was he supportive? mad, crazy supportive. Through the whole journey he was there. He was supportive and we got to that stage of where we realised that maybe the professional route isn't the way it's going to go for me, it wasn't my path. He still came to my non-league teams, drove me, took me, watched, waited, sat, stood and he was there. What wind and rain, for everything, you And forever grateful for that and to be honest I don't give him enough credit for actually the effort that he put in to supporting me through that journey. But ultimately it just wasn't meant to be. Yeah, think people that have had that experience of one or both of their parents being that supportive. that was my mum in my life. Like it was only my mum that raised me and my brother. And whilst we weren't doing it at a professional level, she got a special mention in my school yearbook for never missing a rugby game. She was like to the point like die hard fan and just this real supportive energy of both me and my brother. I feel for people that haven't had that experience, but what a lovely thing for you to have had at that stage in your life as well, someone driving you. But you dropped into the big wild world at 19... 20. So what happens then? I know this is a big gulf to try and fill, but guess you've gone, like I said, all this motivation going in one direction. So what happens next for you? So I talk about this through my social stories that I tell. I was very entitled. I felt very entitled that the world owed me something. I felt like something was going to be handed to me on a plate. Is that linked to feeling like you were going to be a certain thing? Exactly. And then it didn't come about? okay. And that's the transition period of like, okay, so nobody's going to come save me in this world. I've got to go and figure it out for myself. So yeah, there was that, but it took a long time. I was lazy, you know. I kind of started working for my dad behind the bar in his place. And I didn't have no ambition, drive. It was just, was picking up some money on the weekends, playing a bit of part-time football. And just ultimately got into this, didn't have nothing to give me like that fight. I didn't, yeah, like again, there was no drive. So, yeah, that was pretty much how my life went for a few years until I probably decided to do the best thing I ever did at a young age and decided to travel. So, always been obsessed with the US. And I decided to take a three month trip around the US at that time. on my own and yeah, just opened up my world to what was out there. How old were you then, George? I was then 22. So yeah, I was legal to like, it was pretty much a three month. It's a very different experience if you go to the US before you turn 21. I've been out to the US a fair few times, did it at 19 and then went out at 25. It's a very different world when you get into bars and start drinking. So it was three months at 22. What was your experience like? You know, like because I've been so, like I said, I didn't have like the quote unquote normal child's lifestyle. You know, was in football, football, football, football, no, no girls, no drinking, no partying, no this. and then when this opportunity kind of came around, it was like, all right, let's go crazy. Yeah. Making up for lost time. And that's what I feel like I was doing, you know, at such a young age, looking back, I literally, I just had a moment of where, I just kind of grabbed the experience by the horns and just went for it. Where abouts did you go? I started on the West Coast and eventually kind of made my way through the West Coast across into Chicago and then down the East Coast. wow. Nice. so yeah. That was an amazing trip. And was it only three months that you weren't saying it was a long time to go at 22 years actually visa-wise for the US that was kind of like the maximum that you could do, 90 days. I thought why not do the whole 90 and just kind of yeah done the three months there and then kind of came back again just didn't have a clue what I going to do like again just still there was no drive there but did it do anything because I went travelling for six months when I was 24. And I had a view at the time, I'd been a personal trainer straight out of college for about six years, running my own thing, doing that, falling out love with it. And for me, I'd gone with the hope of travelling completely like changing my life, changing my experience. Now I went to English speaking countries predominantly. Like the culture wasn't that different. Where'd you go? Australia? So I went to Australia, Australia, New Zealand and the States was where I spent the bulk of my time and did four weeks in Thailand. doing all the stuff that 24, 25 year olds in Thailand do, which is everyone there is British, Australian, American, you're not really getting exposed to the culture. I got back six months later in debt, sitting there thinking, okay, nothing's really changed, I'm back in the same kind of position. Was that your experience? I'm not saying it was, but that was mine, what was yours when you got back? At that age, fortune hour wasn't in debt. Okay, so you know what I did find out about myself though is that when I had something to work towards for I would do it. I as soon as I decided like, okay, I'm going to the US now for to travel for three months. I worked every hour under the sun in the bar. I even got a job. My first my only ever real quote, real job was for three months at the Royal Bankers got like a bank on the phone like a robot and I was there for three months and earned some money and just saved up to go and to do this. So when I came back that was like in the back of my mind thinking I said you can you have got work ethics inside. you've got a goal there. Yeah there's something to go for but that was that still I didn't know what to put that energy towards until I 23 and my dad gave me and my sister the opportunity because obviously he's in the hospitality industry. Yeah, you might have to fill me in a little bit. Sure. Again, I know of you, George, but I don't know your whole backstory or anything like that. So you can fill me in and I know there's links to the Vine. Yes. So you can just treat me like I know very little. Yeah. So obviously my dad's kind of been in the hospitality kind of industry for. loads of years and I grew up through it so I don't know whether it was kind of a natural thing for me to go into or be good at but it was just maybe something I was born into you know and and yeah so as I got older I started working behind the bar in there and then when I didn't play I wasn't playing football I started more full-time there just like I never worked fully I was just like there. You're present. Present. was practicing card tricks at the end of the bar doing that kind of thing. and then this is just to be clear for anyone that would know it this is in the vine in Lee. Right okay wow. Yeah so this was that was the first one. Got you yeah so I didn't know that I thought the vine in Brentwood was the first one. okay. was the mothership. Yes okay. Yeah so I kind of ended up being in this position where that was like I was kind of fell into that, as you could say, then using it as just like, okay, what am gonna do with my life? Kind of that time to figure that out. And then, yeah, he basically, when I came back from traveling, when I was 23, he said to me and my sister, like, look. How do you feel about like opening your own? I'll give you an opportunity to open your own place. And my first instinct was yeah, absolutely. With the thought in mind that my sister at the time was going to take the leading role. Right. Like because she was, I was always the lazy one and not doing anything. I was the one that sat back, whatever, on the entitlement. Yeah. Right. But when it actually happened and we said, yes, we found a place in Brentwood, we went through the buying process. He obviously bought it for us with the aim to pay him back. was like, here's your opportunity, go and make it your own. And that's when like the... switch inside of me flicked and there was like this ignition inside that I was just like obsessed with this thing now and just became completely invested in what it was I was creating and yeah, it's where my whole life changed dramatically just So this is at 23? This is at 23, so very young It's a lot of responsibility Crazy responsibility, How old is your sister? She's a year but older than me So you're pretty much the same kind of age at that point going into this business with all the backing of someone that has done it for years, which is great But you're being given this kind of proof this sandbox this proving ground to go away You can fuck it up or you can do really well with it. Very risky from my dad's side. mean the show is a level of belief that he's brilliant but also wanting to give you that opportunity. I've never really actually looked at like that, the level of belief, because he didn't have to do that. I'm a dad, I've got two boys. Who says I'd love to be in a... in a position when they're in their early 20s, if they come to me with an idea, for the life of me, if they get into recruitment, I've done something wrong. But in their early 20s, if they come to me and say, I've got this idea, I'd love to be in a position to invest, fund it, whatever. But even as a parent, you're still not throwing your money into something you believe is going to go tits up. So he must have had belief in you and your sister that you could do that, which is great. But yeah, sometimes it's only in hindsight you think. Yeah, shit. Yeah, it's true. Yeah, it was at that moment when you said that I was like, alright, maybe you're right. Yeah. There's something there. So what was the experience like? 23 doing this. I mean, I, so it just shows you, doesn't it? I knew of the vine in Brentwood before I knew of the vine in Lee. Like that was, I remember at the time, I mean, I might be talking out of turn because I know you're to go into this a bit, but like when Sugar Hut, in my, in my experience of going out was blowing up, the vine was a place, like all of this stuff. the vine is in Brentwood, which is your guys' So talk to me about that experience, that's crazy. Sure there are stories and we might not have enough time to go into them all. Give me the brief version. Basically, I had no idea what I was doing. Why would you though? 23 as well. a young age. But what I did have was passion. this newfound drive and ambition and like, it wasn't for money. It wasn't, and it's always, never been for that. was, what it was for me was I just had this passion to create a place where people wanted to come and wanted to be a part of. And really it was about making their experience the best that it could ever be. know? And for it's... for its pros and cons, because you know, when a young kid like taking things personally when things don't go right and being in this position where it's not always going to be amazing. That was a challenge, but ultimately I had a concept in mind for the place. I had a vision. I didn't know at the time it was all just happening in front of me. And it become really, really successful. And yeah, over a period of three amazing years, at such a young age, know, as the popularity increased and more and more people wanted to come and more and more people wanted to be a part of it. I was young, I was naive and I mentally wasn't in the position to be able to deal with the pressure. Right. You know, I didn't know what was. I was just kind of taking it as it came and it got to the point of where some amazing experiences, some of the ones that I'll hold with me for the rest of my life. But you know, you add success to a young star, you add money, you add popularity. and then all the things that come with that on the flip side of it was where I began to really suffer and yeah, towards the end of it. I didn't really know where to turn. was the feelings inside me. I just couldn't be in this place. I couldn't do this anymore. I felt really suffocated. So, mean, you can go into as much or as little detail as you want, George, but we're talking lifestyle that you're living in around that world, aren't you, as well, being one where you realise that longer term, that is not a way. to survive. ultimately I became so like football. I just shifted my identity from being football to now this guy that owns this nightclub bar. It started as we call it bar nightclub. Yeah. And I created this identity, but I knew that it was never really truly me, but I just got lost in it. I got lost in this lifestyle. I got lost in the environment and I started to do things to try and compensate and cover all of what was actually going up inside of me. yeah, so I ended up like on the dark path. You you have your drink and your drugs, et cetera, and all of that involved. And, yeah, it was just this voice inside of me saying, this isn't you. I kept trying to ignore it and trying to be that person that I thought I had to be. That's a really good point to make, because I would imagine you're also Surrounding yourself with people that are almost applauding that aren't You're almost kind of supporting that and then you start to link that identity with I'm successful because of this So I'm taking that that costume putting it on and my success is directly linked to this But you also at least you had that voice because a lot of people don't is extra is extremely lonely. Yeah extremely lonely time man, because ultimately I just really felt like people wanted to know me. for what I had and for what I could do for them, you know, because they wanted something from me. And that's what I felt like there was no authenticity and no genuineness in the connections. Not to say they're bad people, because the people that had were great. And I created some really cool friendships, but like they're not around anymore. Yeah, it's very transactional, isn't it? Very transactional. know, none of them, nobody's around. I still see them and they're cool, but like, there's that transaction is now... Yeah. think for a lot of people, I swore that in season three I wouldn't mention the pandemic, but I got here because it's still like within recent living memory, it's not ancient history yet, but I think for a lot of people the pandemic sort of whittled away... Everyone came out of the last four years with much closer, in my opinion, most close, much closer knit friendship groups or circles of influence that they had pre pandemic because it whittled it out. And actually it sounds like your experience, I'm not saying it was a pandemic, but you understand what I mean. It was the filter that you needed to come out of that and realise actually if that was the strength of what those relationships were based on, then yeah, it's another positive of removing yourself from that world. Yeah, you know, it was like a case of Like nobody wanted to know me during the week. I had obviously my close friends around there and like I said, they're still great people. But come the weekend, all of a sudden around Saturday afternoon, was like, now they want to know. It's all ramping up. And that was a struggle. yeah, to your point though on like finding your, like there's been close and near friendship groups through the pandemic. Not to jump ahead, but I like, really found it like the opposite for me. You know, yeah, because I went so inwards and that kind of ties in nicely to where the end of my time at the Bion. kind of really comes to a close was through that COVID period. It's when I really found out that's not, that's like, I made a decision like that is no longer for me. So it was like, I really shut off from everyone, the whole world. And I decided to turn all my attention inwards. And that was the moment again, when my life then shifted and changed once more. yeah, I came out of that. Even more lonely because like I didn't have anyone around me. It was just me. But it sounded like you really needed to do that. The process of scaling all of that back and having that introspection. Yeah. I mean, yeah, probably completely turn the ship in the right direction. I'm assuming. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, there was a breaking point for me. It all kind of tied in nicely because there was a breaking point for me in October 2019. OK. And that was the moment, you know, that that rock bottom moment. It was then. And then from that point on, was like, okay, so let's start seeing a therapist. At least, you know, let's do that. And it was kind of the road to the journey back, we say. And then, yeah, continued through that period of time. And then obviously COVID happened. then, yeah, there's no choice, like no business, no... No distraction. It was like, you have a decision here Me, myself and I, we've got to work on it. You still have that decision in that period, that moment when it's, which direction am going to go now? Am I going to use this time to like... just sit back and watch Netflix and play Call of Duty or and do those drinking games on the apps and whatever it was at the time, I can't remember what it was called. Or do I really... use this time and be like, right, this is the shift that I need. And fortunately, I don't know what it was inside of me that drove me to that decision, but it wasn't even a question. It was like, all right, this is your time now. And thankful, man. Like truly, truly grateful, because I don't know where the other path would have led me. Yeah, I you can imagine. There's multiple routes that could have gone down. But I do want to ask if you don't mind me. And you share again, George, however much you're comfortable sharing. October 2019. Can I ask more about that? Yeah, absolutely. So when you describe it as rock bottom, I think it might be helpful just to acknowledge what rock bottom is. It's completely subjective and people's lived experiences are very different. But can you tell us a bit more about that? For sure, man. So I'll take it back and this is actually something that I haven't actually spoke about publicly on any platform before but it now is I feel like is a fitting time. was actually thinking about this earlier thinking if it comes up, if it felt right I'll talk about it. And I won't touch on it in too much detail. Whatever you're comfortable with. Obviously everything that I went through with Divine in Brentwood and my own personal struggles with that. 2018, at the end of it, we just had our most amazing year. obviously financially and everything was incredible. guess you're established then aren't you as well, you're in a good position, you've got your client base, customer base, you're known. Every week was guaranteed sellouts and it was, we had a good thing going. And then one thing happens that shifts your whole world upside down, know, just like that. And that's what happened on Christmas Eve 2018. We had an incident where one of my, the doorman at the time, which was hired from an outside agency, but still that's a relevant point. He, and I'll tell this story very quickly, but he basically hit somebody outside of the premises. And yeah, the guy ended up going into hospital and then he ended up dying. unfortunately. Right. Yeah. And then there was a whole part that obviously I'm not going to talk about in depth, but it was, yeah, I have respect for the people's family, et cetera. And it kind of got to the point where they took our license away from us. There's a whole backstory to that that we don't need to go into, but that was a moment in my life where it was, like I said, turned upside down. They took, they revoked our license and now we couldn't trade anymore. So ultimately my business, the business was taken away. And then 2019 was the year that I like to describe about, was my self-destruct button. I brushed it all under the carpet and I ended up moving on to something which was just down the road here. It was the Vine South End. Right, okay. I had the opportunity to put the vine in there. Yeah. I remember that now George. It's all coming back to me. I do remember when that was the vine. Yeah. Okay. So, instead of dealing with my problems, I... buried them deeper and I tried to run away from them further. So more drinking, more drugs, more partying, more after partying, more holidays where I was spending stupid money on stupid things. Chasing materialism, know, and I was just trying to escape. doing my best at it. And I tell this story because it's a lighthearted story, but it is true the truth. right. Go on. As much as I was in pain, I decided to go to LA for the second time that year because my friend had moved out there and I went to go and see him and ultimately let my hair down again. And long story short, it was the last night and I was feeling terrible. It was my birthday. And I was flying home the next day and I was feeling terrible about myself anyway in my whole entire life. I just felt worthless. Last night we arranged to take these two girls out for an evening meal and we went to really nice restaurant and ended up picking up the bill at the end of the night and we thought, okay, this is going good. We're to go on to the next place and then who knows where it could go, right? Hahaha! There was a situation now where we got up to leave the mill. We got into the toilets and there was our meeting out here. Me and him, we got into the toilets and we were all happy about this situation that we're feeling good about ourselves. Lo and behold, we've come out of the toilets. We've waited and waited a little bit longer and we just kind of looked at each other and we're like, no, this ain't happening. No, this is not happening. no. You know where it's going. They darted. They saw us going to the toilet, shifted and then they went. I swear to you John. It's a humbling experience. humbling experience. But it's deeper than that for me. Right. Because I went back to his apartment and he's gone to sleep and I just sat on the sofa and I was just literally running through my... situation just feeling so utterly useless. it's not just that moment it's accumulation of everything that I just experienced through my whole that whole year and beyond that had just kind of built up to that moment and I was like what is this man like I'm done with this shit chasing this life and this lifestyle that just ending up being in every time being faced with this dark depressing place. So the next day on a come down of alcohol and whatnot, I'm on the flight back home and I go back to my dingy flat that I've just let messy, no sheets on my bed, like walked in and it was dark and it was dingy and gray. And I just sat there man. And I was just like, this is it. Like this is the real bottom for me. I, Yeah, I am. Yeah, suicidal ideations that began to occur for me. This is something that I kind of had experienced, but it was like so prominent, man. And I'd never felt so low in my life about the whole situation in my life. And yeah, went to went to bed, woke up the next day with no no sheets. Just didn't get up. I was just laying in bed like this was. This was as bad as it could get. Didn't know where to turn. know, didn't have, didn't felt like I didn't have anyone around me. And I had to just peel myself up off the floor. And yeah, the first port call was my mum. I said, look, I am in a terrible place. Terrible, terrible place. Like, what do I do? and she basically spoke to my dad and then they organized the therapist for me and then that was the kind of first time I thought, all right, let's try and do something about this. And yeah, like I said, that was the moment when like now I'd lost my business, buried everything under the carpet, like financially that had all been taken away through this process. so was, everything had just kind of gone. And yeah, was left to, it was all caught up. It all caught up very fast and there was no running away anymore. It was there for me to face in front of me. Like that moment of like, this is it. And yeah. Thank you for going into that. Cause that's raw. That's raw stuff and you can see that and sense it. And I can imagine, I wanted to circle back round. I didn't know any of that. And I think. when someone mentions they've gone to therapy, there has to be a catalyst for that. So, and I am very open about my struggles with mental health and depression and I've been seeing a therapist. Weirdly, I probably, if you started seeing a therapist around October 2019, around about the same time I did. When's your birthday? 24th of October. Yeah, so on the 17th of October. I don't know what starts like that. But I definitely, my birthday each year for some reason is a real time of reflection for me anyway. And I started therapy around then and it did change my life. Like just changed my outlook. But you need to hit, whether people describe it as rock bottom or a low or a point, an inciting event, an inciting incident, some people call it where you think. Fuck, I something needs to change in my life. So thank you for that. I think that might resonate in a lot of different ways with people understanding that. And God bless your mum and your dad. Again, I feel for the families that don't aren't as open and don't see therapy as a route. It might, you could have gone down any number of roads from that point when you asked for help and if therapy wasn't one, where do you go from there? So that's great. in a way, in a number of ways, that's a really good thing to have happened in October, 2019. So you now start this process of a rebuild, whether you want to brand it. So talk to us then you've had this rock bottom 2019 and then, I mean, we're five years, we're literally nearly five years down the line now. So what was the rebirth like? Yeah, so like I said, like the COVID period, happened and it was the moment to... turn all my attention and focus on to figuring out who I was now as a person. Because ultimately I had no idea. I had no idea who I was. I had no idea what I wanted in life. I had no idea what I liked. yeah, I started to just do some self-inquiry. So throughout my days, would... start doing all the healthy things, know, changing the habits, going for walks, eating better, reading and moving my body, training and just feeding myself with positivity. And started to find out more about life, I suppose. Yeah. And what was really about. Because at the time to now and I had what made the time to you know, hey priority privacy. Yeah and You start to progression, start to see changes, start to, for me anyway, I start to become more aware, more self-aware of my own thoughts and my own, and how they linked to actions, how they linked to how I felt and, Yeah, started to start things, do things that I never would have even dreamed or imagined to do. For example, like yoga and meditation. So these wouldn't have been things that if we'd said about George at 23, yoga, meditation, mindfulness, whatever that looked like, everyone would have gone, what? You couldn't link the two? Never, never, ever. Never would I even dream of even entertaining the idea of it. And yeah, it was just an introduction where it happened slowly. And then just kind of as time goes on, you start to find your things that you like. I went through the period of like the whole 5 a.m. all of the free hour morning routine. I went through all of that. it all. Read all the books. I mean, there's lots of books I haven't read, I've read. I never read books before in my life. OK. And then this was a shift and a change. So, it kind of just happened like that. and progressed and yeah, started to see change in myself and how I felt. And yeah, that was like the beginning part of it. And then, yeah, I'll fast forward because that's kind of how my life kind of went for. Yeah, if that describes the kind of route now, the path, let's say, that you're on. That And I mean, that can, God. the kind of work that you're doing, that introspective work and that change of habit that you're doing can take a long time to bed in as well. So I know five years is a long time to bridge, but yeah, go for it. Fast forward. It was a fast forward to just 2021 really, towards the end of that. I started to listen and started to watch a lot of podcasts and listen to a lot of like... Yeah, a lot people like Joe Rogan and I started to see that guy called Peter Crone. I don't know you know him. Another one called Aubrey Marcus. These amazing people that I started to really resonate with. then, like this isn't really a topic like this isn't really relative for the whole for this podcast. Go for it. Yeah, what a tangent. It was a... I started to become really curious and listening to Joe Rogan podcast and talking about like plant medicines and psychedelics and mushrooms and things like that. And I openly talk about it. I'm not an advocate for it. I'm not an ambassador for it. But I talk about my experience and my connection to plant medicines and et cetera. And it all stemmed from hearing this and it being something that kept being in my... Yeah. I want to say planting a seed and it's just an awful cliche. what we're talking about. Yeah, it literally is. is, but it is the only way, it's planting a seed. And I started to become more intrigued, you know, was drawn to like hearing about healing and trauma through these plants and mushrooms and etc. Can I ask George, because you're saying it, I don't know if you're aware when you say it, are you, is there any... sense of like how that might be perceived when you when you say about that yeah because it's only because your your manner changes slightly when you say about doing that which i for me personally and everyone is conscious of who's going to hear this and and what their perception might be but i i sense when you say it that there is at least you are conscious of people's perceptions about it yeah for sure yeah and This in this place you don't need to be at all just so you know if I do I do acknowledge that yeah, there's a no I'll touch on that just purely because I think that It's something that can be looked at you two ways, you know many ways everyone's got a different perspective on it but I just wanted to be clear like If everyone's on their own journey in their own path and they make their own decisions based on the information that they they have. Yeah, so Reason why I said like I'm not an ambassador for an advocate for it is because I feel like if you genuinely feel called towards it Something of that source. It's not for everyone. Yeah, but if you genuinely feel called to experience that world then Go for it. Yeah, I would support that but also support the people that aren't interested in and Again for me, it's not a party I know what mean. because that is the perception of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, is a there's a strong perception of it. So, yeah, always just suggest like, when talking about it's like, okay, if it's something that resonates with you, then go and do your research, go and have a look a little bit in deeper into it. And don't just like jump into because it sounds cool, because someone's telling you to, because that's probably not the right idea. But I've listened to Joe Rogan and he would be less on the fence. He would be like, right, this is what everyone should be doing. He's a little more like that. And I'm not suggesting that's what we need to be at all. But I think as someone that hasn't done that, but is also of the mindset where I can see the benefits doing the research, doing the reading, having that seed planted in your mind, which then makes you think. actually this whole perception of it is one opinion. But actually all the benefits that you could get from doing that is another thing. But I go back to your key point, which is you start to digest information that you wouldn't have listened to, read, taken in previously and your mindset changes, doesn't it? And that seems to have been what happened over a period of time. It's a feeling, isn't it? It's a resonant, you resonate with something or you don't. And it was just something that I felt like I resonated with. And I had to really be honest with myself and treat it seriously rather than a case of like how come I using this stuff to try and run away? Yeah, because that's an easy option as well to be clear on the goal of it and your intention You know because it is something that you can get lost in as well again, you know, it's like anything It's a scape as well if you do enough of it, do it for long enough, whatever it is Yeah, so there's that to be aware of and conscious about as well So it is a touchy kind of field that can be disgust I just wanted to kind of paint the picture on just from my perspective and where I stand on it but yeah it was again I just it was something that resonated so I started to hear about like retreats and things in in the Amazon and and in Peru and I was after listening to that stuff and over a time period I kind of got drawn into having a look and yeah again long story short, decided to eventually book a retreat. But I couldn't get to it because of COVID and it was, Peru was still closed. So they offered like, you can change it to go to Mexico. And didn't feel right at the time. was like, want to go to Peru. So I was waiting it out, waiting it out. And it was my birthday 2021. So around that time again, there was this moment of where I was like really felt drawn to getting away and to experiencing this in a retreat setting. And to just to tell you what it was, it was a retreat for, I don't know if you've ever heard of Ayahuasca. Yes, yeah. That's what immediately came to my when you were speaking about hearing on podcasts and stuff. Yeah, so it was a retreat for that and another plant medicine etc. But that was the thing that I felt called towards. So I booked my flight and I thought, you know what, I'm going to Mexico. And three weeks later I was on the plane. 11th of November actually, just over two weeks later, I was on the plane. And that was the next chapter that began there for me. Because I went to the retreat centre, I an amazing experience, came out and thought, you know what, I'm going to spend five days in Tulum. It was my last day. just to tell the story so you understand is I was still somewhat involved in the Vine. I didn't have an active role. I was helping my sister out where she needed. I would DJ on a Saturday if she needed. But I made the decision that I wanted to leave fully at the end of that year. Right. So now I'm end of November and it's my last day in Tulum. and I'm sat at a table in a hotel in the jungle, beautiful setting, and I'm like, this is nice. And like sent from somewhere, a lady appeared next to me and I had a hat on the table. I was just eating lunch and she voiced over and she said, I like your hat. Obviously as you do you start to talk. I told her my experience. I've just been here for a week. I'm flying home tomorrow. said I'd love to be here. I'm leaving my business and I've got like to figure out what I'm doing with my life, what my next chapter is, what I want to do. And I said like I'd be amazing to stay here. I've always wanted to travel, blah, blah, blah. And she just turned around to me and she said, when was the last time you actually listened to yourself? And I was like, yeah, it hit me. It hit me. And I was like, you know what? You're right. Because I spent so much of my life doing things to please other people. with their, them before me, putting them ahead of me. And actually, this was the moment where I could make a decision for myself and actually do what I wanted to do now. And I wanted to leave the vine and I wanted to stay there and I wanted to go and experience what that side of the world had to offer and just being a moment of like going and doing it for me. So ended up coming up with this strategy with her, like to call my sister and be like, look, this is. This is all over lunch. All over lunch. Right. You met a stranger. Met a stranger. And now this is... Pose that question This plan is coming into force. So she told me to call. So she was like, look, how do you feel about that? Obviously I needed to honour my sister, like my business partner and be like, look, this is where I'm at. If you need me to come back, I will. But this is where I feel like I need to be right now. So I respect you enough to say that. And yeah, my sister being my sister, she was like, you can't do what you got to do. And that was the beginning of like this whole journey of two years traveling, which ended up at the end of the two years, pretty much here and there, flying around back here and around, but to different places. It ultimately led to the moment where Rob Boys was the idea for that was born. Wow. So yeah, was a whole, that was a whole journey itself. But God, mean, yeah, yeah, can imagine. Yeah. Two years, two years of stories and lessons. I can imagine highs and lows. You know, we want to believe that everything's just this upward trajectory when we start to rebuild or rebirth, but there's going to be pitfalls along the way to knock you back down. we are, we are here as well to talk about this journey, but also what I say the end product is it's still a work in progress, but we're to talk about Rollboys too. So you come back, talk to me about this. Let's bring it to the point where what's the catalyst for Rollboys? Where are you when you think, okay, this is going to be a thing that I want to try and put some energy into? Honestly, just before that, I was lost, completely lost of what I wanted to do. I had no idea. I was now in the US. the money that I'd taken from the business, half of it which funded me to travel for that time is now... You're gone. And I'm in LA, tried to... tried to work with a guy on his food truck business, which is a whole different story. It didn't end up working out. So I left LA. I spent six weeks there. This was June. This was May, end of April, May last year. So 2023. And I was, this didn't work out. And I was like, what am gonna do? Like literally money was at the end. So I found this, I don't know if anyone's ever heard of trusted, have you heard of trusted house sitters? No. So it's this website where basically you go and house sit for somebody and you look after their pets. Right. When they go away. Yeah. Got you. So I was like, all right, I was having to look on this website because I had no money to pay for rent. I had no money to pay for nothing. And the goal was to stay out in. At the time I didn't know. Right. I had no idea. So I was just trying to extend this thing and like in faith that something would come alive and something to figure something out. So yeah, one come up for this guy's house looked like a really nice house in Houston in Texas. So I messaged him, he messaged back, agreed. Two days later, I'm like... If I'm doing this, I'm coming. I'm going. So he's like, yeah, we're doing it. Let's go. Jumped on a plane, left LA, flew to Houston. I got an Uber all the way up to his. in the woodlands, beautiful area, like a really wealthy area, like had a beautiful house. His name was Ernie. He was a retired airline pilot of 40 years, Mexican guy. Two dogs, big house, swimming pool. Walked into his house, he's welcomed me, showed me the room, gone up to the room, he's left me alone for a bit and he's come back about five minutes later and he stood in the room and he goes, look, so my plans have changed. my god. Yeah. Okay. So my mind starts thinking, no. He goes, what is going on? And he goes, I'm not going anywhere. My plans have changed. He goes, he's going through a divorce and the whole story goes, basically I can't leave the country. Mexican residency. He hasn't got his green card after all this time. Long story. He goes to me, well, you could still stay here. He goes, if you just don't mind me being around, you can look after the dogs, et cetera. I was like, yeah, cool. I said, I really don't have anywhere else to go right now. Like I said, my situation, I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing. I'd be really grateful if I could actually just hang around until I know what I'm doing. Like two weeks, the whole trip was planned, meant to be for the actual agreement. This is against... the trusted house hit a policy. I can't imagine anything he's planned for at this stage. So I ended up being like, you know what, I'm going to just see this out. got no other choice really. So stayed there. And we ended up being getting on really well. Yeah. Like he was like such a cool guy. 40 year pilot now turned entrepreneur. He owns two or three gyms, number of different properties, he's very much driven. And we had some amazing conversations. He showed me around the area, took me to this bar that he liked to go to, went for late night tacos, introduced me to some mezcal, like some really nice mezcal, sat up with him drinking, talking, watching baseball. So it was... Amazing for me. It sounds like a go either way in the States. It's even a start of a horror movie. Yeah Where you're trained to something kept there for weeks on end. Yeah, but it's gone the nice way Don't get me wrong that did that did cross my mind. It's to not admit I would have been sat there going shit Yeah, I've seen too many horror films originally when he first told me my mind went fuck What am I gonna do now? Like where am I gonna go? Like if he tells me like you have to leave. Yeah. Yeah Because I'm in a mindset now where I've not been in that similar situation where I've got nowhere else to go either. So you're in that kind of dual route, that either path you're like, wait, I've got way up the risk. I've got nowhere else I just went with it at the time because I was like, all right. So it was that time when I started to really... have some really interesting conversations with him about myself and business and what I wanted to do. And I said the problems with my dad and like, leaving that business and then figuring out what's next, blah, blah, And yeah, he just offered me some real wisdom, like just gave me like this belief to just go for what I wanted. And at the time I didn't know it was Cinnamon Rolls. It's quite a leap isn't it to get to that point. No, but the whole backstory of that is not for now because I was obviously conscious of time. it was that again, was the short story of how it came about was years before I tried Cinnabon and I saw the brand. And I was amazed by this product. I tried it in an airport in the US. It was just something that warmed the soul. And that was where it was planted. But I looked at Cinnabon and I was like, over the years I looked at it and I was like... Such a dated brand and like there's no innovation with their products. You've just like they've done that that product really well. They introduced a few other flavors, but the limit, possibilities are endless with what with the product. And I just looked at it and I was like, as the time went on and my love for one concept ideas, like doing something and doing it really fucking well. It kind of drawn to me like over the time. that there was the possibility to create a really cool brand that done cinnamon rolls, sweet rolls and savory rolls and just really be creative with the flavors that you can do. And I was in Mexico, I was in, I was in Mexico. I was in his house at the time in Houston. And I called my dad. And I literally like was on the phone to him and I said to him about this other idea that I had which wasn't cinnamon rolls. I won't go into that. I'll that one just in case. Yeah, not to confuse the story. But the original idea was not for cinnamon rolls but it still food based and I wanted to use his kitchen. So I called him and I was like, look, I've got this idea. How do you feel about me using your space? He was like, you can use the space. I just don't have the equipment. And then it came to my awareness that he had this massive stand mixer, like commercial stand mixer that I thought I didn't know if he still had. So there I was on the phone again to him, was like, Dad, have you still got that stand mixer in your kitchen? He was like, yeah. I was like, can I use it? He was like, what for? I said, want to, I've changed from, it was Smashburgers the idea. I've changed from Smashburgers. I said, I'm going to do cinnamon rolls. He was like, what do mean? I was like, yeah, just different kinds of cinnamon rolls. He's like, just cinnamon rolls. And I was like, yep, that's exactly what I'm going to do. Cause it was something that I can go and start straight away. I can work on it and there's no real overheads, no real costs. I'm going to chime in. Yeah. You've got no history of baking, no history in food production, but you decide that you want to start a business doing cinnamon rolls. Yes. I love it. Completely bonkers. Part of the appeal to the brand in the first place is that you have not done this before and I love that. It was absolutely, it was naivety at its finest. I just felt I was back against the wall moment. I felt like I needed to do something. I wanted to do something. I was ready to do something. just... was waiting for the right opportunity. And I was not willing to compromise on my life. I knew that had it in me to create something from nothing. And I could have turned around, I'll fly back home, get job, figure it out. But I just wasn't willing to do that. So at the right time, the universe had put this opportunity in front of me. mixer. Yeah, the stand mixer. No baking experience whatsoever, ever. and he agreed to it. The name came to me like that, whereas any other crazy idea that I've had in the past was such a struggle to get the name. But this came to me and I was like, yeah, that's it. Found the guy on Fiverr to create the logo for I was going to ask what the inception of the logo was as well. That was Fiverr. Yeah, was Fiverr, Yeah, I tell you. The actual text was a friend of mine called Max. OK. He'd done that. Great graphic designer. really good kid, he done that. But yeah, all everything aligned. And I'm still in Houston, I'm booking the flight home for three days later. And that was when I got into the kitchen and made the first ever batch. And I guess the rest is history. So, yeah. There's another question as well. And I'm saying this with a smile on my face because I'm just, thinking about how far I go down this route of thinking of an idea never having done it before. So the belief that you must have failed. And if anyone listening to this knows George and knows Rollboys, which I think a lot of people that listen to this episode will, and then if you don't, you will go on to know George and Rollboys anyway. But yeah, the brand's amazing, but to go from that idea... Did you get the logo, the name all done before you'd made your first batch of rolls? Yeah. It's fucking mental. I love it. But again, that belief in yourself to come back and do it. And I'm sure, you know, I'm sure again, there's that little self doubt that little thing creeps into your mind. What did the first batch turn out like George? terrible. Looking terrible. Tasted alright. Tasted alright. looked. Because the look and appeal of what you create has been something that like I love food and when you mentioned Cinnabon, I love the States, Cinnabon was just this, mate, there's something about it. It just tastes incredible. The visual appeal of your product now, you only have to go on your grid on Instagram and it's just like, your mouth starts watering. That's a huge part of it because not everyone's gonna eat what they see if it's not appealing. So you've got to get there. From day one, I've been extremely... You know when you have a vision and you have you know how you want it to be and I knew I was like I knew I wanted the product to appeal, like to look great. I wasn't settling for anything less. And it was a development process. There was a long, nothing natural to me. had to learn on the way. I had no idea about dough. I no idea about nothing. What I was, I was a creative and I knew how to create. I am a creative, so. And I knew how to create something. And I even started, like a lot of time people would wait and wait and wait. and then be like, I'll wait until I've got the perfect product before they do it. I made the video and announced like I was doing something before I'd even got the final product. I was like still at the early stages. I just knew that this was it. There's an adage that I use a lot of the time, done is better than perfect. Exactly. Like getting something out there and then iterating or innovating it as you go. Don't get me wrong, you've got to not be like, especially with food production, don't kill anyone because that'll write you off very quickly. yeah, be happy with what you have. Stop trying to chase the perfection of it because there's always room for improvement and development. So yeah, that's what kind of my attitude that I took towards it with like, all right, I'm not I'm not an experienced baker. I don't know anything, but I know that this tastes good to me. And my friends liked it and my family liked it. So I kind of got it to the where I know how I wanted it to look and I just went alright let's go. Started how I started like with the marketing at the beginning and this is the side of things that I love is like creating side of it. I announced like I didn't tell anyone what it was just call it just now say it was Rollboys and then I just done a number of like teased dropped videos of things that anything to do with rolling, bowling alley or women on skates or just like videos of like this kind of thing until it got to the point of where I was ready to be like, okay, so now we're starting. And I'd done that for about three weeks and then released the roll was the cinnamon rolls and done the launch day. And then, yeah, I opened the doors and the feedback from then was like, I didn't know how it was gonna go. People tried it and straight away their response and the feedback was this is amazing, this is incredible and I was like, all right, maybe I've actually got something here. So I just doubled down and just carried on the train. That's crazy. From outside looking in, I've got to admit to you now, George, I've not tried your product yet, which I will change at some point in the future. But I'm not offended. It's the cues. like the pop-ups you've done. So I remember coming back from, I think I've been out somewhere going past June store and seeing your pop-up then and it was just mental, like so, so busy. And I feel like for anyone listening to this, we've skirted over a few of the more, we could have gone into a lot more detail on some of the things that have happened over that course of Rollboys specifically, but I almost don't want to detract from some of the content that George has put out there. go onto George's reels, you can piece together some of the stuff that you've been through already. But I've seen the documentation, or the documentary style stuff you do of the pop-ups and it's sleep deprivation. It is being completely overwhelmed by the demand for your product, which is a much better scenario to be in than no one turning up, but it's shit scary and it teaches you things along the way. But I saw the June store pop up, I was like, no way I'm getting in there. I saw the queues that each time you did and I committed on the last date of the pop-up I'd do it and then I was with the kids and I'm can't queue with them either. But just amazing. And I've heard amazing feedback that Amy, who's very, so Amy who was on the previous season, like is very discerning with her food and she said they are just. Yeah, mind blowing. They've been a real big supporter and a partner. are just crazy mate. Gabs will eat anything. yeah. Gabs Both of them have got some amazing places they've eaten and things they've eaten. So to get either of them saying good things about it is good. But it's certainly more than that. You've got an army of followers. Yeah, do you know what? Because going from the past and creating something I just didn't, like I was lost in, I needed to create something that was more fulfilling. more meaningful and had a purpose to it, you And that was what my every intention was to do this. wasn't just about baking cinnamon rolls. You know, was telling the story and creating a human connection, you know. That's what's missing from so many brands out there. And I just wanted to give you that feedback from my perspective. It's the brand and the community you've built. As someone that has never eaten a Roll Boys product, I'm bought into it and I'm a fan of what you're doing. I've never eaten it. I mean, I could eat it and be like, this isn't great. I don't think I would. that you've built around cinnamon rolls. It's just mental. It is mental. But an absolute byproduct of the passion you're putting into it. So I just wanted to say from my side, yeah, I hope it continues. Your content you put out, I'll mention something that I did raise. I think I mentioned it on the podcast. I was talking to Bex and Amy. And I remember you did- The Thursday thing. Was it? Was it Thursday? The late night shopping thing? Yeah. Yeah. And you just, you just did this version of this video and I'm thinking, why, just get to the fucking point. You didn't say what you wanted to say, but it kept me hooked. I watched that video three or four times and I liked it. And I was like, I want to know what he's talking about. And then I think you ended it without ever talking about what it was. One of the best bits of branding I've ever seen. I want to emulate that. It was so, so good. yeah, just props to you. Cause I think you've obviously got. Like whatever your baking skills are, you've got very clear talent for building brands, which it's been amazing to see. No, I appreciate that. You know, it's something that I feel very passionately about. know, I think like, like I said before, like a creative, I really am a creative and, and I've only just really recognized that within myself through this process, to be honest with you, you know, I knew that I knew how to well, I guess I've actually figured out that I can storytell and just be in this position where I'm not afraid to like, I don't, I'm not afraid to like just put myself out there a little bit, you know? I'm naturally pretty much an introvert. I am an introvert, very much so, but when it comes to like something like this. I do it for the cause of the brand, know, and almost like it's... Yeah, it's just such a passion to be able to put a creative spark on something without any limitations or restrictions. you haven't got anyone direct to me telling me, well, you can't walk down the street in a banana outfit. Which, looking back on it, I actually think, what the fuck? Where's going? By the time. people speaking about it. Yeah, yeah. And I think that's where, like, that's what I like is to create something like, like, it's creating a demand, you know, but it's doing it in a way that's not... I'm not trying to con anyone. I'm not trying to rip anyone off. I'm not trying to take anyone's money, but I'm genuinely interested in creating something that people genuinely want to be a part of and feel a part of. And they want the product and they want to wear the merch. And that's what drives me. The baking side of it, I create the product, great. As it grows, I'm stepping away from that. I'm focusing solely on brand building, creating, and just building community. It's a word that's thrown around lightly, heavily, so it's thrown around a lot, but it is something that is so at the forefront of my mind, is like people first, you know? Because I think it's as much a conversation about marketing and building a brand as it is about the specifics of what you built with Rollboys. And I think in the age of AI, which was a common conversation I was having in season two, we're going to see brands with less heart behind it, in my personal opinion. I'm from a family of creatives. My brother's an artist by trade. My mum's an artist by trade. I've ended up in recruitment, but I've got elements of me that I acknowledge are creative. And I just see AI and this leaning of this automated creation of creative content is taking the heart away from it. So to see the man behind the process is why people can buy into what you do. Yeah. people don't buy what you do, they buy why you do it. And that's a common statement, but it's true, you know, and there's a connection to the person and they become invested in that. And I recognise that, you know. And yeah, there's obviously strategies and methods around like the way that start, the way that I storytell a lot of it. to be honest with is actually just very impulsive. I haven't now down strategy yet, but it's something to learn by. But that whole people feeling connected to the brand, want to see, they don't just want to see the finished product now. You know, they want to see, okay, what happens to actually get to that point. people are more interested in that process, in that journey rather than here's the actual finished. Yeah, here's the shiny thing at the end of it. Yeah, I thought it was great when you got the old... the head strap for the GoPro as well. That's all trial and error as well. You don't know if anyone's going to buy into seeing head cam footage. It's a good approach. People just want that level of insight that I don't think a lot of brands are willing to give, especially startups, because you want to put across this. veneer of being successful before you are. No one buys into that. I'm honest about the fact that the business is five years old as of Sunday and I'm still learning as I go. I'm still right on the edge of sometimes some months, some Saturdays going, is this going to last another month? And I'm honest about that. I'm not pretending to be something I'm not. And that again, for what I do, I think people have bought into that from a brand perspective. I mean, long may it continue for you, mate. First of all, congratulations on five years. Thank you very much. And thank you for being honest and open as well. Yeah. I think it's all about that. And again, the aim of this podcast is to have honest conversations. There's no point glossing over like the harder aspects because these are things that a lot of people have to face. throughout their career and work you do for the majority of your life. So facing up sometimes those difficult decisions to change something to make it more bearable or even something that gives you something from it rather than it just draining you to the point you. retire or die. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. If this can inspire people to do something to change, then that's what the whole podcast is about. It's brilliant. What's next for the brand, George? I'm sure you've had opportunities or could buy opportunities to rock up at festivals or any events like your Sunday craft thing, whatever you wanted to do. All of that. But I can see again from what you film and what you share, that's not what you want to do for the brand. there's a vision, there's a concept. There's a business model. There's all of that tied in. And yeah, I could have gone to markets and done events. Doesn't align. My product is to be served fresh and warm, always. It's not to be sat there at a market table all day. So I've said no to markets. Boxpark and other places like that, big brands. wanting to put Rollboys into their place. I said no, because it's not, I don't want to be in a place where there's so many other brands around and you can get lost and stuck in there. Big thing to turn down, big things to say no to. So I have that and I'm committed to it. and I'm sticking by it. And that's why it's been so difficult this journey, because I've been stuck true to my vision. Yeah. Do you know what? You remind me of my brother a lot. Like he's approached his art and the way he wants to sell it, the way he wants to create. He's been so zoned in to how he wants to do that. he's like, I admire anyone that can not selling out such a broad term. And I think it might be inaccurate in this one. But you get what I mean, like not to just say yes for the sake of money, because you know it doesn't align with your vision and your values. you remind me a lot of my brother. sit here and I can hear Luke saying exactly the same thing. He got a very big Instagram following very quickly, say very quickly, took him years to build up to what he did. But when he got to a certain level, started getting sponsorship deals from people that weren't related in any way, shape or form to what he was doing. And it would have bought him in a lot of money and probably would have paid off for a lot of the stuff that he's having to sort out now. But he just said no to it because it diluted the brand. So... it's from the heart. There you go, mate. Yeah. And you can see that. Honestly, you can see that. You can just get that sense. I need to introduce you to my brother. Yeah, for sure. I'd love to meet him. Yeah, cool. Yeah. OK. I'm going to ask you a bit of a cliche question. Yeah. And it is for your advice, which I think you've given a lot of advice along the way. through the story you're sharing. But what advice would you give to someone who's feeling a little lost when it comes to what they want to do for work? Maybe based on your own journey of looking into yourself, but what would one bit of advice be? Faith. Honestly, man. I think in my perspective like everything that kind of is happened for me along this way has happened for a reason you know everything that I've gone through in the past has built me up to this moment and continue and will continue to do so you know but one thing that I had was I always believed in I've had my own doubts it was like don't get me wrong I'm not saying I'm sat here I'm perfect I don't have fear or doubts or anxiety because I suffer from all of that but what I is this deep underlying knowing that there is that I have the capability and the belief to do the thing that I put my mind to you know and I think is again faith is a word that can be thrown around yeah the connotations again will be different things perception but if you believe in something and you can truly feel it within your heart that is is calling you and it won't go away and it's just whispering to you wherever it be leaving your job, or whether it be starting a business, whether it be you're too scared to go for a promotion or anything like that, or you feel like there's a calling towards that, then just take the necessary steps one at a time. Don't rush and overthink and be in this position. Don't overthink is a difficult because a lot of people do. We pressure ourselves to actually to be successful fast or to want everything now. But if you take one step at a time and it truly feels right for you, then it is a matter of just keep pressing on, just keep going. Just even take the first step. towards that. might be a Google search, you know, about a product that you want to sell or a business that you want to start. Or it might be a question to a friend that leads to something else, then that leads to another conversation. And all of a sudden things look right, that they can actually happen for you. But if you're in that moment, if you're in that process of actually really feeling like you have nothing and you are, and there is nothing going for you and that you are, that you're have nowhere to turn, just keep going. Just make, just every day, just keep pressing, just keep going. yeah, just believe. think faith and belief, I think is the biggest two factors that I can say. I get it. Like you say, faith has different connotations. I think that that belief in yourself that you are worthy of something happening for you as well. Cause we all are like, we're all sat here and we all have the ability to do something. just taking little bites at that and making that infinitesimal progress all the time. It's something that I've had to get more comfortable with too. I think when I started off my business, I wanted to achieve all these things very quickly. And then you realise actually just by turning up every day, you're one step closer to achieving those things too. It doesn't always have to happen straight away. And I think it's because we become so... Focused on the end product. Yeah, and I'm the journey So the cliche I use a lot and I used to use this in a lot of my copy Is it being about the journey not the destination like you have to in show have to get something from every day? Otherwise, what are you what you're doing it for? It's a big old mission to go on if you can't enjoy the smaller steps. It's like a let go of the attachment to the outcome. Exactly. always want to put ourselves way ahead of where we actually are. It's not going to be easy. It's not going to be... all ups, there's going to be moments where it feels incredibly challenging. There's going to probably be moments when you want to quit or stop, because I've definitely been through that as well. And it's going to be scary, know, there's you're to face all of this. But it's like coming back to that. coming back to what you're feeling inside, that there's a deeper drive in. There's something deeper that's driving you forward. I don't quite know what it is, but I just know that I've got it inside and now I'm just going with it and just seeing where it takes me. George, keep going, mate. Thank you, Like I said, I'm loving being on the journey from afar with you and what you're sharing and the bits and pieces. You're giving this level of insight that I think is really rare, will inspire people, whether you know it or not. You don't need to do a podcast. But yeah, everything you're putting out there is inspiring. Thank you John Cheers man. We've got two more things to do. for it. So I've introduced a quick game of this or that. love it. On this season. we've done this and then we've got the closing question from my mum. Which is sticking around for season three as well. So this or that, it's just ten questions. You need to give me an answer as quickly as you can. So try not to give it too much thought. Number one, sweet or savoury? Sweet. Number two, go out alone or collaborate with others. Collaborate. Three, nutty toppings or fruity toppings. fuck. Nutty. Four, baking for breakfast or late night cravings. Breakfast. Five, seasonal flavors or year-round classics. Year-round classics. Six, embrace change or stick to tradition. Embrace change. Seven, spicy kick or sweet finish. Sweet finish. Eight, rolling dough or spinning records. purely because my passion isn't the baking, is spinning records. Wait, I'm glad you're being honest. This is another one, nine, DJing in a club or baking in a kitchen. that's hard, man. Like what the baking brings, yes. I'm going for the bacon this time. I'm going sorry. Just level it out. Number 10, long customer queues or a packed dance floor. Long customer queues. There you go. Thank you for getting on with that. I tried on that one. I wanted to give you a few. Yeah, loved might be slightly harder. Right, closing tradition, which my mum is still being put on the spot every day, usually the night before. I send her... A quick voice note, they Mum, I need a question for this guest. She's like, who the fuck are they? What's going on? So anyway, we're going to play it down the phone. Hi, George. I really love the concept of Roll Boys. Have you ever thought about bringing out a vegan range? Thank you. Well, you go. There you go. I mean, my mum isn't vegan, just so you know, but she's asking the question. That is a very, that is a question that is a hot topic. OK. Yes. Right. And it's quite prominent these days. is that I get a lot. Right. You know, are you gonna do vegan? Are you gonna do gluten-free? The answer is absolutely yes. Okay. And the reason being is for the demand that people are actually really, really... It's something they want to see. Yeah, yeah. The reason why I haven't done it is because of my lack of baking expertise. Yeah. You know, I don't have the knowledge to work with gluten-free doughs and... vegan recipes. And I guess make the product still taste the way you want it to taste. So the idea was to grow, expand and as we grew people that come on board that can, that have got more knowledgeable about the baking side of things and that's their passion and that's what they love to do. They can develop something that is of the standards of the brand that I hold myself to. Yeah. So the answer is yes. The answer is yes. Yeah. Yeah. Eventually it will be coming soon. Yeah. Thanks for getting involved for that Yeah, for sure. George, it's been an absolute pleasure. And I know we had a little bit of a bumpy road from my side getting this booked in as well. thanks for your patience as well. But you've been a legend, Thank you, mate. really wish you the best of luck. man. I really enjoyed it as well. Cheers, Thank you, mate. Cheers. Thanks for listening to Jobsworth. If you enjoyed this episode, please feel free to give us a follow wherever you listen to your podcasts and while you're there, if you could take two seconds to rate the show, that would be awesome. You can follow Jobsworth on Instagram where you'll get teasers for upcoming episodes, some behind the scenes videos and the occasional bit of career inspiration. And if you'd like to learn more about my day job, then feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn.