Reading Between The Lines

This week I had the pleasure of sitting down with professional actor Ricky Champ. Ricky shares his journey into the world of acting, discussing his early inspirations, the importance of resilience in the industry, and the impact of rejection on his career. He reflects on his time in EastEnders, delves into the emotional weight of portraying heavy themes in his work and how he navigates the balance between his professional and personal life. In this conversation, Ricky also shares his insights on the acting profession, emphasising the importance of letting go of performances, the power of passion, and the realities of balancing family life with a fluctuating career. He discusses the unpredictability of the industry, the impact of fame, and the significance of teaching the next generation of actors.

Takeaways

• Resilience is crucial in the acting industry.
• Rejection is a common experience for actors.
• Finding a balance between personal life and acting is essential.
• The memory is a muscle that needs to be exercised regularly.
• The importance of human connection in performance
• It's important to find joy in what you do.
• Exposure doesn't pay the bills.
• Protecting your integrity is vital in the industry.
• Teaching can be a rewarding way to share knowledge.
• The journey of an actor is often unpredictable.
• Fame comes with its own set of challenges.

Ricky Champ

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/rickychamp2
Agency - https://innovate-talent.co.uk/


Keywords

Ricky Champ, acting, resilience, EastEnders, auditions, career, rejection, mental health, theater, acting, performance, passion, family, career, industry, fame, teaching, experiences, opportunities, Him and Her

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 1:25 The Journey to Acting
• 5:54 Resilience in the Acting World
• 12:28 The Impact of Rejection
• 18:40 Transitioning from EastEnders
• 22:58 Navigating Career Changes
• 29:30 The Evolution of Auditions
• 35:10 The Role of AI in Acting
• 37:30 Handling Heavy Themes in Acting
• 40:21 Letting Go of Performance
• 43:32 The Power of Passion
• 44:57 The Reality of an Actor's Life
• 47:49 Balancing Family and Career
• 51:36 Navigating the Industry
• 54:59 The Importance of Diverse Experiences
• 56:27 The Burden of Fame
• 1:00:14 Impact on Fans
• 1:03:05 Teaching the Next Generation
• 1:06:20 The Unpredictable Journey of Acting
• 1:10:07 Future Projects and Opportunities
• 1:16:18 This or That
• 1:17:47 Lisa's Question

Transcript

0:00

I like your Star Wars, your X-Wing. Cheers man. This is realistically the place where all of the shit that I can't get away with keeping in the house goes. I'm in one of those places. Yeah, have you not got one yet? Yeah, the loft. Welcome to episode six of Jobsworth season three. This week's guest is professional actor, Ricky Champ. You might know Ricky from his roles as Paul in Him and Her, Stuart Highway in EastEnders, Hector in Plebs, Daz in ITV's Piglets, or even characters from the works of Shakespeare. But he's also a dad, a husband, a part-time painter decorator, an avid botcher of movies, and as you'll soon hear, a dab hand with a sledgehammer. We discuss Ricky's introduction to the arts, his education at Guildhall School of Music and Drama, how it felt landing his first big role and how being passed over for his dream job nearly led to him turning his back on acting before landing one of the biggest roles of his career to date. We also talk about the reality of making a living as an actor, the dangers of comparison, the importance of resilience, how it's built and how it can often be tested, and whether fatherhood has had an impact on the type of work he takes on. This episode is a lesson in humility, hard work and the importance of never, ever taking anything for granted. So without further ado, let me introduce you to the absolute legend that is Stuart Hyre. shit. The absolute legend that is Ricky Champ. When you were younger, what did you want to be when you grew up? Immediately, footballer comes to mind. I was raised in a footballing household. My dad was a footballer. and it was, yeah, just overwhelming. When are we going to play football? When do I play? all men, all my brothers. I've my older brother, Dan, two younger brothers, Tom and Oliver, half brothers, Scott and Dean George. It was loads of boys growing up, loads of boys. And, yeah. And we all played football. You know, I think, must've been maybe 13. 13, 14 and I started to go to Ridley's. Okay. This is a Ridley's drama school, which by Chalkwell Park. It's gone now. It was like, now it's a six bedroom, two million pound house or whatever. But when I was a kid, it was this amazing place for amateur dramatics. And you went there on a Friday and rehearsed plays and Saturdays were the classes. And I went there and I told everyone, all my friends that I had trials for late in Orient, but I was going there instead. Really? What was that like? we had this conversation the way up the stairs, but you grew up in in Shrewbury, you were born in Shrewbury, so you're always in this part of Essex. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I guess you kind of answered the question that I was going to ask you, which is you've gone from footballer, ran a load of guys, all to be footballers, and then... What was the catalyst though to start going to Ridley's? When did that come into I think it was always in me. I was always like... big personality. It was a strange thing for me. I did have a weird shyness, I think, when I was younger, that I never let anybody see because I hid it with being this mentor extrovert. Right, okay. I know that's kind of an oxymoron, that is. It doesn't really make sense, but it was a character. Okay. that I assumed in everyday life and one that worked. In Shubri as well, I had different, very different groups of friends, know, yeah, had groups I went out with, groups I, you know, played games with, football, you know, and then I had my drama group of friends and I kind of always wore a different hat with every single one. I didn't know it then, but it was kind of, it was acting then, you know. And my mom suggested it actually, think at first, you know, why don't you, why don't you try this? You'd be really suited for it. And I went and I loved it. And, then it slowly became more serious. I mean, it was always fun. I can do this. This is fun. This is great. And, and, you know, right through my education, it grew in seriousness until it, I Guildhall and I went to Guildhall and it was a really prestigious drama school in London. Nothing. I'd never lived away from home before. How old were you then? 20. Okay. You know, all of a sudden a 20 year old kid from Shubury, the end of the line gets his own little gaffe, that absolute dive. Where was that? It was right in the centre of London. It was Moorgate. Yeah. Yeah. In student digs. And yeah, I just was not ready for it. was not ready for it and the seriousness dawned on me even then it was like I can do this I can do this for a living you know this is a really feasible way to live my life and it's always been playing it's always been you know having fun yeah what a dream a lot of people will hear that just as that sound bite there having fun and getting paid for it yeah yeah yeah Obviously, there's so many layers to it, aren't there? And it's not all having fun. But at that age especially, especially when you've gone through the education system around that and doing your drama school and getting to that point to say, I can make a living from this. And the reality of actually living as an actor is, even the jobs, it's not always fun. It's a lot of the time very, very difficult, very challenging. You need different types of resilience. throughout your career, while I have needed, and try and find ways to overcome them. And every now and again, I get a job where I kind of replenish, replenishes my artistic temperament. feel like an artist and every now and age mostly happens during the theater. Theater jobs. Whenever I do a play, I come out and I think this is why I do it. I remember. I'm going to just to caveat this conversation, I know nothing about the world that you operate in. So I'm going to ask some questions that you might be like, who are you asking me that for? the reason is because I'm completely ignorant to it. So if I ask you a question, it's a stupid question. There are no stupid questions, John. I hope so, but I'm coming at this from the perspective of not being your side of the fence at all. I also just want to take it back just a couple of steps to when you were younger too. So 13 years old, you start. going to Ridley's? Yes, think so, Around that sort time. And it's your mum that suggests that? I think, yeah, was definitely my mum that said, there's this place, you could go here, get some of that energy out. Because I was going to ask, is there any other inspiration? You've got no other actors in your family, there's no one else that's in that kind of world at that point? No, no, no, no. I mean, it must have been kind of obvious to my parents, to my brothers and everyone around and uncles who should get him on the stage you know I think there was a lot of that you know we said that about my son I've got a six-year-old and I there's something that me and my partner look at each other when he's doing things he loves acting he loves voices and just running around the room we like this kid there's something in him that yeah that needs to kind of be molded and I think we all to a certain extent when we're younger I mean my daughter's the same she's seven and she's already had a couple of gigs. I saw the clip from Piglets as well, I was howling because it was just so good. I had an argument with a producer the other day about that because it got cut out of actual final. I thought that clip just made me laugh so much. It was a really good scene. Knowing that's your daughter as well, just thought it was so But yeah, think as kids we all... learn to a certain extent how to live through playing and just like a lion pretends to kill its brother. You know what mean? that's a good analogy. That's right. I've watched enough documentaries now for that to make sense. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, and it's whether you have someone around you that will harness that for you. push you in the right direction. I think a lot of successful people through sports, through entertainment, all have parents or people around them to an extent that have pushed them into that route. It's a really good point and one that I've discussed with guests previously. You mentioned George before we started recording. He got into football, he got signed by the O's at 14 years old. his dad was the driving force. And I think you can always take it back if you're fortunate enough to have a parent. And again, I have this conversation with nearly every parent that comes on, it's finding the balance as parents now between pushing your kids and knowing when to take your foot off the gas and not push too much. And that's constant battle. almost like showing them the door for things. There's the door. Do you want to walk through it? And sometimes I might need a gentle nudge. And then you, cause you know, as a parent, once they get there, they're going to enjoy it. They're going to love it. They're going to flourish. My daughter goes to a dance school on the London road. Expressions. Fantastic run by Bex and them. And, and, they've got a great team there and there's a really good camaraderie there, really good community of girls and boys that, you know, dancing and performing. And it's a really, it reminded me a lot of Wrigley's like that. And yeah, I think it'd be a really cool place for her to go and learn beside school. Cause that was interesting. You know, you grow up and you associate or learning you so associate. What do you want to do then when you grow up, you know, for in school, career advisors who are ticking boxes and A few times I said, you know, I've said, I wanted to be an actor. And I knew that when I was 16, 15, 16, I knew already, I'm going to be an actor. And a few times people said, yeah, but you know, realistically, realistically though, what do you want to do? And that kind of resonated with me a bit. I think I kept that for ages and used that as a kind of springboard to tell them, you know, well, watch me. So that's a trait that you've obviously got. intrinsically somewhere, that driver in you to say, did you have to fight for that? Because there are two ways you go from that, they? Yeah. If you're asked that question enough, you start to think, that's not realistic. Yeah. You start to doubt yourself. mean, the whole, my whole game is littered with what they call knockbacks. Do you know what I mean? When I graduated from Guildhall, I came out into the acting world. I was very lucky. I got signed in my third year there. So I was auditioning for things straight away, almost immediately. And I do know why it was, it's great. I think I got my first three jobs that I went up for. Wow. Which is mad. Mad. I don't think I've ever got three in a row since then. But, but yeah, so I was like, this is easy. You know, and this is what it is. And, but it obviously isn't, but you quickly realize that, you know, being an actor is getting jobs and not getting jobs. And to be successful, you have to be good at getting jobs and good at not getting jobs. That's where resilience comes into it. Yeah. And that's what I was saying, like about knockbacks. They say, no, you're going to get knockbacks. But actually they're not. I don't think of it as that anymore. It took me a little while, but I got past it because it's like, well, no, it's part of the job. you know, if you have an audition and I haven't worked as well as I could have done, or I felt I have much time or I'm a tired or whatever, know, any reasons for it not being as good as I could make it, then I can beat myself up a bit about it. But if I do the work and I present to them what I, you know, a good audition in what I think is, and it doesn't happen for me, it doesn't go my way, then I'm okay. You can be at peace with that. Well, yeah, because I just think, well, actually, that was really good. they must have been looking for something different. And I actually kind of haven't maybe how I justify it, do you know what I mean? But it's worked for me. Saying that though, more about resilience, it's a great word, resilience in my game, because yeah, it has meant different things. And you know, I've not succeeded all the time in remaining positive and keeping my drive. I failed, yeah. Cup spectacularly actually a couple of well what six six years ago I was coming off for back of a really great year really great and this major bit television whole series then I done a movie with Woody Harrelson couldn't believe it like I'm a hero and I had a duologue with him and then and then straight after that I was at the Globe Theatre Romeo and Juliet at the Globe in the summer playing Tibble and you know I was on an absolute role John, absolute role. Sounds it yeah. And I was like what's next? Right what's next now because I'm ready now to be challenged and the Duchess of Malfi was casting at the Royal Shakespeare Company. Now I don't play the blue bloods, the kings, the dukes, the princes, I play the clowns and the villains. Right okay. That's my classical cast in John. And Ferdinand, I got seen for Ferdinand who, if you don't know the Duchess of Malfi, he plays the Duke, the Duchess's twin brother, who goes mad and thinks he's a wolf. It's an extraordinary part. one of the great classic roles. And I was like, man, I can't believe she's seeing me for it. She being Maria Eiburg, who I worked with twice before. See, this is already... building in my head that I've got this role before I've done it. There's confidence there based on prior experience. I'm on a role. I've worked with Maria Eiburg before. Singular, gifted director. Brilliant. Yeah, we've done two plays before. Wildfire and Days of Significance. Both produced by the RSC. So it's ticking every box. I go into the audition, I absolutely nail it. absolutely nail it. She's smiling and nodding. I'm like, it's in the bag. Get a phone call and they'd like to see you again for a recall. And I was like, really? A recall? Like, you know what mean? I've absolutely nailed this. Why do you want to see me again? they must want to see who's going to play my Duchess, you know, read with me. I went in there and there was like seven potential Ferdinands, 10 potential Duchesses. I kind of folded in there a bit. I was halfway through learning it. I wanted to do you know what I mean? I was in between the freshness of like, you know, doing it of like getting it and like being completely off book and knowing it. And I was going through the fire with the text really complex Jacobean text. And I just absolutely balled it up. completely and I came out of there and I didn't get the part. It went to a really young 16 year old kid or something from Eaton and I was just gutted. Even after that amazing run, I let that one get to me. I'd cleared it with Sammy, my wife. I was like, right, we just had our daughter. was like, Beatrix is gonna learn to walk in Stratfield upon Avon. Are we going to live here? The play was in the Swan Theatre, the most beautiful theatre space in England, in my opinion. All the boxes got ticked and of course I didn't get it. Never before, I've been doing it for 20 years, never before had it hit me as hard as that, not getting a role. What did that look like, Ricky? What did hit being hit hard? Mmm, wanted to give up what it looked like was turning down the next two auditions picking up a map and Starting to learn the knowledge to be a cab driver. Really even after that run of success is that one role? Just something about it something about it. I was depth I found it devastating. Hmm, and you know, we talk we talk about resilience and I forgot about it and I was ready. thought, yeah, well, you know, I've had a good run. I've had a good run. look at a lot of actors, my agent, you know, who have been in the game the same time as me and they haven't, you know, I've done much more, you know, I've done this, I've done that. I feel like I've been successful. I've been challenged, but thank you very much. That's it for me. Yeah, yeah. And I don't know, I can't really tell you why it hit me so hard. Maybe I just really wanted it. Maybe I loved the whole, wasn't just the play, it was where it was, it was who it was with. It was what it was gonna represent. But a funny thing happened right at the cusp. I looked at that map of the 2,100 roads you've gotta learn in Essex to be a cab driver. for two months, for two months, through the December, and miserable Christmas, and then, yeah, January came. And the end of January, I took that test and I passed. And I passed. You went that far down the line. Yeah, I passed it. I passed it. All that was left to do to be the cab driver of my dreams was to take the driving test. And I booked it in. And a few days before that, happened, my phone rang, it was my agent, and they wanted to see me for EastEnders. And I said, and I said, Matt, Matt's my agent. I said, Matt, really? What? mean, what if they say yes, though? What if they, you know what mean? What? I just, I'm not sure. And I don't know, I was feeling really, really tender. And this part came, I've been on EastEnders a few years previous, like just as a bit po- had a scene with Barbara Windsor. And I kind of back in and there was this part, Stuart Highway, and everything fell into place, really. Everything went beautifully, they loved it. I got to read with people that were on there and closely linked to Danny Dyer's story, Mick Carter, he was playing and I was coming in as his old friend. So immediately on Danny Dyer's schedule, which was incredible actually. So fast, so much stuff they got done. And I went from zero to a hundred and got the part, signed on for four months, stayed there for four years. Yeah, wow. Yeah, yeah. And it changed the whole game really. Yeah. And I felt like I got... I felt like I got my mojo back. mean, you're in the deep end in a soap. know, two hours of finished footage a week they shoot. That's a feature film a week. So, you know, getting to any sort of quality is nigh on impossible and sustaining it is impossible. Yet, you know, you can't have high drama for four episodes every week, every... you know, they the masters at the slow game, the slow burn and but yeah, yeah, with a mountain of lines to learn. you I think if you can learn Milton, learn Shakespeare and be on EastEnders for a year, I think you can learn anything. Yeah, I think you can learn anything that's put in front of you. Do you think just going back this comment about the like doing the knowledge and looking at a map and learning all the roads and that's got to be a talent that you've got in your brain to retain that information that's the parallel between, thank God you didn't do it. Thank God you didn't hang your head up and then go down what? It was close and part of me, wishes I'd continued. So I still had it, you know, because I mean, you know, the story continues after EastEnders, the struggle and you know, And I've been out of EastEnders two and a half years now. And I had another crisis right at the end, actually, of Enders. Well, I was going to talk to you about that because a lot of conversations I have on the podcast are always trying to ask people how they identify what enough looks like too. Because so many people get their head down and work without defining the end point or the point where you say, am putting my blood, sweat and tears, all this energy is invested into this. Yes. When does it stop? that we all give ourselves enough time. So for you, when you mapped out your career, I don't want to take it too far back because I feel like it's really nicely flowed to EastEnders now. But I first saw you, Ricky, before I knew that you had been married to Sammy and all this stuff and then all these kind of six degrees of separation. But I saw you in him and her, which I loved. And that, for me, was like amazing. Loved Russell Tovey in that. It was awesome. And then I started seeing you around this neck of the woods. was like, I know, I know. Before EastEnders all this happened. But I just wonder, know, was EastEnders the route you saw your career going down and then did it feel like you'd, does it ever feel like you made it or did it at that point feel like you'd made it? That is the phrase as well. That is the phrase. Have you made it? And it's a really interesting one because I thought I'd made it when I've got that fourth letter to get into Guildhall. I thought I'd made it again when I'd done my first play in the West End. just keep getting home. Yeah, I phoned my mum and I remember going, this is it now, I'm on the road now. I've made it. I am a professional actor. I can call myself that. Yeah, different levels of making it, I suppose. First big TV job, first film. Yeah, yes, it's like when people trust you with more and more but then I suppose your reputation kind of takes over at the end and said well, you know, actually I've got a pretty good body of work behind me, but I you know, I don't have 55 odd professional credits before I went into EastEnders, which is really good You know for life after a lot a lot of guys there, you know hadn't done anything else Well, that's another question I was going to ask, like, and maybe we'll go into that about, you know, the end, the ending of EastEnders, but then you've got like Ian Bills, you've got your career, your career men that have been there. You know, is, there, was that a path to stay on and become one of those characters or how much is that you making that conscious decision to step away or think I could, I could stay here for a few more years? Well, I mean, you know, first of all, it wasn't. It wasn't my decision to step away. Like, you know, new producers come in. Happens all the time. Yeah, yeah. New producers come in, put their stamp on it, you know, and I've had a real run, been very busy as a character. And it was agreed upon actually that that character did need to be rested. But they, yeah, the new guy brought it up, Chris Clenshaw, and he took it over. two and a years ago. And actually he's just stepping away soon. He's stepping away after the 40th anniversary. And then another guy will come in and take the reins and put his stamp on it, you know? And I don't know about exec producers, whether, you know, maybe it's a little bit of a stepping stone job for them maybe, or, you know, they pay their dues there a little bit. I don't know. But it's a very difficult job. It's a very difficult job to get right and keep everyone happy and keep it good, keep it fresh because how can you do that on a show that's been going for 40 years? know, variations of the show, like storylines over and over again, you know, they've got a really amazing tool at their disposal there, which is to have their finger on the... the pulse of society, something happens in the world, they can put a spin on that or talk about it. yeah, yeah, straight away, stick seeing it. But you know, this is, I think that's really, really great. But yeah, yeah, a lot of pros and cons there for me, but I never wanted to spend my whole career in EastEnders, never did, even when I was there. But I'm so glad that I did it. I'm so glad it happened. you know, for me. And in a way that job saved my acting career, I think, because not because of, yeah, anything else, because it made me want to do it. Yeah, actually. Yeah. And then it didn't. And then it did again. Then it didn't. It's for you. know, like, imagine there are cycles in your, in your line of work. There have to be, don't they? And I guess one of the pros of being in something like EastEnders is the consistency of work. It's the paycheck. I've got block of time here. And I it started as four months, but then to go to four years knowing you've got money coming in, this allows me to settle down whatever that looks like. What that looked like was buy a house and have two children. know what I Sammy were able to do that and buy a house. I can't believe that I was able to buy a house from acting. Really? Yeah. That's really interesting. And I did it, you know, yeah, absolutely chuffed. But there was another kind of crisis, but it wasn't the same as the Duchess of Malfi one. Right. The Duchess of Malfi one was, I don't know, was very strange. That was like a collective amount of rejection kind of happening all at once for me. everything, every time I'd been like I said no to or rejected, it kind of all came out in that one thing. No, that's not going to happen. It exposed That's not going to be happening. That's not going to happen anymore. After EastEnders, I mean, I knew six months before I left that I was leaving. What's that like? What's that like staying engaged and harder and harder and harder? Towards the end, it gets harder and harder. And I saw a lot of people leaving that had been there a long time. saying their names but I saw them struggle more and more and more as it came to crunch time. And I can remember being there going, you know guys, don't leave before you go. Yeah. Yeah. And it was so easy for me to say that. And then actually, when it happened to me, I found it very difficult. it came to a head actually. I got offered a part on Ted Lasso. Yeah, really great part of Ted Lasso and that was right at the end of my term in EastEnders. I just started to go up for other stuff. That was like realizing all of a sudden, shit, I haven't had an audition in four years. The world's changed by the way. You don't go in rooms anymore with people. Right. And this is where thought, hang on a minute, this is where I get my work. I'm in a room and I speak about a production and I get him excited and get myself excited. Then I show them what I can do and then I get employed and that's what happens. And now after, after Eastenders, are on zoom, if you're lucky. it's, you self tapes are a thing. now you have to do your own audition. You just get pages with some third hand direction on it from a Carson director. with a small breakdown and you have to create it and decide without any direction and send a tape off into the ether and hope a phone call comes back. How did you find that? Well, I felt a bit like a dinosaur. I felt a bit like a dinosaur. There were some younger actors who had been doing it who were like, that's what acting is now. And it's like, okay, okay. So I had to kind of learn that and think you. Well, you know, that audition now means you've got to do it at home. My home is noisy and my home's got two children in it and, you've got to have someone to read with you and Sammy, my wife, hates it. She hates doing it. her. But she, I, yeah, she does it. I love her even more for it. but yeah, she, she, she does it with me and sometimes we're under pressure, you know, last, last weekend I got, I got, Got self-tape through audition for a film in South Korea shooting next year massive sci-fi epic called Europa Okay, I won't go too much into it, but it's it sounds so cool Anyway, my evil character that I went up for Yeah, Jake Anyway, I was Yeah, yeah harvesting some fungus on the plat on the moon Europa And a couple of detectives from Earth come over to investigate a human body piece that's been found. Awesome. It was really awesome, really rich. Anyway, they dash me out on Friday night at like seven o'clock or something and say, that's for Monday morning first thing. And you're like, right, okay. Well, you know, I'm teaching some kids actually on Sunday and then I've got to do some stuff for my family on Saturdays. When am I going to do this? When am I going to do this? And you know, it's like, an 80 grand job, you know, that could, that could sort me out for the entirety of next year. And then you start thinking, and then there's pressure to that. Do know what I mean? And you think, you know, been out of EastEnders, it's harder and harder to learn lines now and get them down, especially when you're under pressure. thing about Enders was you, you learned so much and the memory is a muscle. Yes. And the more you do that, the better you get at it. And yeah, a little bit of time out and the more time you have away from acting, the harder, I think the harder it is to get back to it. It's always good to keep something being learned in your mind and keep. Yeah. It's the use it or lose it cliche, isn't it? Really? You've got to keep flexing it. Otherwise it's know so many atrophy. Brilliant. perfect word for it. And there so many actors who like, you know, just sit and get stale. And it's really sad. It's really sad. And you can feel it. I felt it happened to me. Now, you know, now, right now, after this year started amazing, you know, started brilliantly. done a big TV series. done, I know I've done The Witcher. A few episodes of The Witcher for Netflix, then a film called Leaven's Trade with Jason Statham blown up by hand grenade. And so cool. And it's all really ticking over and really, going all right. And then the phone just dies. know, the world stopped. Hollywood is empty. And there was a writer's strike and there was this and there was that and And that translated into just Ricky Champ's quiet phone. My dad works at Shepperton Pinewood as a lighting rigger. So he does a lot of the big movies and stuff and they were impacted in exactly the same way. So that was really interesting. Like everything was on hold for months and now it's really still only just starting to get back up to speed again too. So I kind of had an insight into that seeing him sit on his ass for Three months where he'd been busy for a long, long time back to about... Yeah, yeah, it's what happens, what happens. Very, very... A lot of turmoil in the industry at the moment. A lot of arguments about pay and about what's fair and about what gets divvied up, you know. I guess AI seems to be a big part of it, like with the writers strike to agree and yeah. I mean, I think we've got the whole AI thing under control now at the moment. I mean, as far as performers go. the Americans, the Actors Guild, came out with, you know, after the Actors and Writers Strike came up with kind of ironclad things to protect performers. I think it's really important. It's absolute Wild West out there if you don't put those policies in place. yeah, yeah, yeah. And I do know that they will come. They will happen. mean, technology is marching on with or without us. But, you know, protecting... performers from that is, yeah, is vital. We need a human element to perform humans. It's connection, isn't it? For me, I'm from a family of creatives. My brother's an artist, my mum's an artist. They've been artists for decades between them. Yeah. And to see the advent of something that I personally, some people argue that AI allows you to be creative in different ways. Yeah, I'm kind of on board with that. But if you are someone that works, they both work in a very tactile way with their hands. So my brother draws and my mum does clay. Yeah, amazing. But they are doing something that now could be replicated visually, like a 2D image. You can go on a social media page and just see it being replicated by AI. And that's not, in my opinion, is not art, or at least not what I define as art. Subjective. No, no, no. It's through a medium. Art is through a medium, isn't it? It's through a human. you know, if it goes through us, like, you know, music goes through a dancer. You know what mean? The script goes through an actor and the paint, you know, yeah, all artistry comes through humans. And yeah, it's vital that we keep that. And I've got no doubt that there will remain. I think we have to. I think we have to. Looking back on Extenders, you took on some big, your storylines were up there. So I complete transparency. was at EastEnders household growing up. I think we all kind of, we all just shifted away. didn't, we weren't the family, were sitting down watching Soaps a few times a week. It was EastEnders, like I had a few friends that were Corrie, but EastEnders was the one. I am not a massive EastEnders fan. So I think, which I think is quite nice because I'm not getting drawn into asking you about all these actors, all these characters, all these things, but your storylines that you took on. You had some meaty stuff going on. Heavy, heavy subjects that you were dealing with. So cancer being one of them, mental health being like, obviously hand in hand with that. Yeah. How much of that do you kind of how do you draw the line between what you're doing on a set? Are you good at doing that? Drawing the line between okay, here's what I'm doing as Stuart. Yeah, here's what I'm taking home with me. Yeah. Can you leave your bags at the door? Yeah, leaving muddy boots at the door is something that took me years to do. Actually, the other way, you know, going through stuff in your everyday life and taking that into a rehearsal room with you, you know, I... It's a good point. didn't flip reverse it. Yeah, that is how I learnt it first, leaving your muddy boots at the door. And that for me is a definition of being professional. Wearing a hat that allows you to... not bring your shit into the room for want of a better word. And coming out of it is different. The other way, if you're in a car accident, you walk over scrapes and cuts and bruises and, and it's, it's not a bad analogy, because sometimes it did feel like a car accident. And that's why I said, this volume of lines you have to learn are not just words on paper, they're, you know, they're thoughts that you create as well when you go through them. and you, in order to perform them as real as you can. And when that subject matter is mental health, cancer, disease, very big, you know, stuff, it's hard not to take a piece of it home with you. You kind of have to, because you're learning it at home. know, I know it sounds funny, but my commute helped. I had a commute. I drove and I drove in every day. around the M25. I know what that's like from previous life. yeah, Not a joy at all. Up to Borewood. It's like, you know, on a clear run, hour and 10. Yeah. Sometimes I have three and a half, you know, and it, and yeah, it was, it was brutal, but I used it. I learned how to use that coming in, getting into it, and then coming home, leaving it there. When, when I first started EastEnders, I remember driving home. going over the lines in my head that I'd done that day. Really? And I was like, right, no, you've got to stop that. That's a theatre way of thinking, the repetition of the rehearsal. Because the expectation is you're going to do it again the next day and the next day the next Yeah, of course. You have to keep it in, harness it, evolve it, keep it in your head. And that's kind of, with a theatre background, that's kind of what I'm hardwired to do. It took me a long time to let it go, like delete it. know, read it, learn it, make choices, perform it, delete it. And- once done is done. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is what it is. That's another lesson to be learned as an actor. You have to let it go. You can't, I mean, because a whole nother artistic through thing happens in the edit. you know, you do your bit, hand it over to a director who has 25 versions of the same moment, you know, and four of them might be on you. So don't worry if it's do you know what I mean? And it's their eye that's gonna take it through and how the editor puts it together. There's this whole nother, you know, artistic thing that has to happen that's completely out of your hand. So you have to trust. There's a lot of trust involved in just going, that's my performance. Use it how you will. It's interesting you say it's a lesson as an actor. It's a lesson that relates and translates to anything really. That you're doing your best and sometimes you have to accept that the fate of how that ends up is completely out of your control. But you're part in that. You know you've done everything you needed to do. some point you have to let go. Yeah. And you're not accountable for that anymore. No, that's right. That's right. It's a really good lesson. He who binds to himself a joy does the winged life destroy. But he who kisses the joy as it flies lives in eternity's sunrise. what a... Where is that from, I'd love to be the guy that sat here going, and that's from... Do you have a source? I think it's William Blake. That's amazing. Yeah, wow. Yeah, I think it's just a lot of what you're talking about. We're talking about the world that you operate in. it's so... The reason I had you on the podcast is because so much of the skill set you've learned and the experiences you've gone through, there are all these translatable things that can go into... anyone's relationship with what they do for a living and what they're doing for work. I think it, you know, is there has to be a through line of passion, doesn't there? There has to be, because you can want to give up your job, whatever you do in life, you know, 50 times. But if all of a sudden you find yourself still there after all of those doubts, all of those knockbacks and all of those things, you know. then you realise the strength of your own passion. And you think, actually, you know what? I've been tested. I've been tested and I'm still here. And that counts for something. It does. I'll be honest with you. If you'd listened, if you ever listened back to the first couple of episodes, I'd banned the word passion. was at the first episode with my mum, so I could ban the word passion because we're having a very honest conversation. But I had a real issue with the word passion for a long time because I wasn't doing something in my day to day that I felt quote, passionate about. I think I have learned over the years and definitely now doing it myself to draw elements of the things that I really enjoy about it. Cause it has to be something you might not holistically enjoy or be passionate about the whole piece. You have to be veins of it that you can draw out and think, I love that. I'm very fortunate now cause I had the scope, the flexibility, I guess. the stupidity at some point to say, I'm gonna do this on my own. I'm gonna do it the way I wanna do it. That's bravery too. I think there's an element of bravery. Sometimes that borderlines with stupidity. those lines across the Venn diagram is like this. yeah, they do. But I hope that people listening to this are either in a position where they can draw those little veins out or know that there is a world where you are able to find something like that. Because we work too much of our lives to be sat there miserable every day. Man, I... And I feel for people that are. Yeah, me too. yeah, I mean, don't get me wrong, know, an actor works a while and then doesn't work. We're nomadic as a species. We go round and about and do this and go over there and do that. And a lot of times I do stuff in between or when I'm on the way to that place to do that. And I've got lots of friends and acquaintances who I work for and with. I painted a house in Shubury a couple of weeks ago. I worked for a demolition team in a brain tree a couple of days ago. Knocked down a wall with a sledgehammer, John. There you go. Amazing. It felt amazing. right? it's like therapy. and as well, you know, I came away and I just knocked the shit out of that wall and I earned enough money to feed my family for a week. Yeah. Win, win. Thank you for being honest about that. Because I don't think a lot of people listening to this or outside looking in would look at your career and think, that doesn't have to do that. Well, I think it's important to be honest. Yeah. the reality is I do, you know, and I never felt kind of ashamed by it. In fact, I think it's helped me as an actor. A few weeks ago, I was painting this house. for this guy in Shubury, funny enough, down Tudor Gardens in Shubury, where I used to live. So I was back in my ends, mate. I was back in my ends and it was my old stomping ground and he wanted this archway painted. And I spent two days stripping this like crap, thick red nonsense that was on it and just got it all off back to the brick, filled it all nice. sanded it down like this brick arch and I painted it again, this stone color. And I just, I kind of looked at it when I was done. It took me a couple of days and I just thought that is amazing. I'm so, I was so proud of that. And yeah, and it made me think, when was the last time I felt that way about acting? And it was like, it's interesting, you know, cause I couldn't remember. But it's... It's these moments for me that replenish me, rejuvenate me to keep going. I think there is something inherently important in acting. And I it sounds funny and like, you know, but to me there is. And something in me tells me that it's important that I keep doing it. You know, and they're sacrificing it. There is sacrifice in it. It's our lifestyle, a time. and being able to plan stuff with me and my wife, you know? And it's difficult for us to, because don't get me wrong, me and Sammy both have the life of an actor. You know what I mean? And she has to deal with it and she's heroic for it, you know? And- How do you having kids change? God, what a question. I'm going leave it there. How do you kids change everything? How do you having kids change- your approach to A, the jobs you took on and again, work-life balance too. Yeah, so obviously after children, young children come in, all of a sudden, you know, long theatre contracts are kind of not doable, you know? Luckily, like I said to you before, we're nomadic, we go here and there, actors... go to where the work is, it never comes to us. You're not working remote are you? No, I've got to be there. You've kind of got to be there for this. And you have to be there to rehearse and you have to be there for press and you have to be there for in person a lot of different places. don't get me wrong, amazing places and I've been to some cracking places through my work. But yeah, having children. asks the question of like, you know, well, how long? Yeah, that fit that film that I told you about in Korea, it's gonna be like, you know, half of February, you know, so we've got to take that into consideration. Do you know what it means? Why? Let's weigh up the pros and cons. Is it you know, is this worth it? You know, it's, it's got to be worth it. Yeah. And sometimes I don't, you know, I, don't know, I won't tell you what job but I've done this job. to work with the people and I got absolutely screwed with the money. And it was going on and on and then I kind of just thought, is this job worth the sacrifice? And it probably wasn't. It probably wasn't. You learn from that, don't you, guess. It's as great in hindsight to say it, but sometimes you have to say yes, commit to it and it's only on other side. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you do. And you know, that was a film and it was, you know, number one and two on the cast list, getting paid literally millions. Number 10 on the cast list is getting paid, you know, half a million. And I'm number 18 on the cast list and I'm coming away with five grand. And it was like, you know, it was harder to get around and it's weird thing happened on that job. You know, the job got bigger and bigger. I was while I was on it. So, you know, I'd go in and they'll be like, Ricky, another scene for you. And you're speaking now and this is happening now and there's a stunt now. And it was like, everyone's like, Rick, this is cool, right? This is great. Your characters growing, your parts getting bigger. And it was kind of this thing of like, well, yeah, my paycheck isn't actually getting bigger, but I'm doing more. Would anyone else in any other line of work do more for less? And, but what they're selling to me is the amazing exposure. The amazing opportunity. And, and you know, that worked on me 20 years ago, but it doesn't anymore. I can't eat exposure. It's a, it's a great point. The things that we do earlier on in our career to get the opportunities to get the next step on the ladder. I'd say to anyone. And we'll go on to talk about what you're doing now. And you mentioned as well that a big passion for you is trying to get younger people into acting, into this industry. I think we'd all advise our younger selves to have said yes, to say you've got to sometimes do that, tempered with a bit of experience now. Which is don't let someone tread all over you. Don't get walked over. Protect your integrity. Yeah, that's a great word. Do what you do, yeah, with, you know. your heart on your sleeve, but you've got to protect yourself. Yeah. And my game is rife with people who will take advantage because that's the world. Every single production is a business. Every single production is a way first and foremost to make money for people, you know, and the art is secondary, which is a shame. So you were saying then that the art is secondary. So the jobs that you do, they're there's a money making machine, isn't it? You're there to facilitate this thing that is then going to go out and make money. But do you do anything to let off steam that is just for... Of right's sake. Do you do any of that? Do you have the time to do it with two kids in a family? You know, not really. And I mean, that... we can lose ourselves in films a lot. and Sammy are great. I see Sammy's recommendations for TV and films a lot. We devour films. We watched an amazing film last night, Caddo Lake. That's the one that you shared today. saw this and now it's on my watch list. I get it. really, really enjoyed it. Really enjoyed it. But yeah, we devour stuff and books and And that's our escapism. That's our, I suppose, art for art's sake. When I'm not acting, actually, most of the time, I, do you know what mean? I think about knocking walls down or painting archways. I know it sounds funny. I know it does, but yeah, something about it. All throughout drama school, you know, I, you know, I didn't have no money, but I worked for a security company in Kensington Olympia, Earl's Court. the HIC Centre, Wembley, you know, I was doing event security. My first one was a Phil Collins concert. wow. Yeah, pucker, right? Yeah. I got told off for, not doing anything, just standing, listening to Phil You looking in the wrong direction. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Shit going on behind you. Someone was asking me, what was it, where do I sit, or whatever. I like, I don't know, Couldn't care less, I'm watching this. Phil, mate, you know what I mean? Yeah, so, yeah, and that, you know, that paid the way, but I've always... I've always kind of enjoyed doing other things. And I think if you're an actor, especially me, I think if you see that as a failure of being an actor, then I think that way lies damnation. Because chances are you're gonna have to do it. need to keep it coming in. I need to pay the bills, keep everyone fed. And I enjoy doing that. I enjoy doing that any way I can. It's the financial aspect of it, isn't it? You're paying bills. And I guess there's also, in my opinion, again, this side of the fence, you're picking things up, you're learning, you're having experiences, you're learning by osmosis from different people, diverse people that you're working with, the different cultures, classes, all this stuff, all goes into a bank somewhere in your brain that you can then draw upon later down the line, surely. If you're siloed, that's what I always think about, you know, if we talk about like the Brad Pitt to the world, that for me, don't live a normal existence. Where are they drawing upon to get these ideas for... If you haven't got those touch points with everyday life, quote unquote normal life. It's like the politicians, isn't it? It's like how can a politician make a decision that affects all of these working people, you know, when they have no idea what that is. But I will say this for... Brad Pitt. I didn't think Brad Pitt was going to come up to me. I'm not going to go straight onto politicians. I'm going to talk about Brad Pitt. He's one of my heroes, mate. And you know, I'm just looking at him now with that picture on your wall here. you know, first and foremost, what an incredible actor. First, like a character, they said, Anthony Hopkins said this about him when he, when he won his award or was that he was up for a He was up for an Oscar for Benjamin Button. Because they didn't meet Joe Black together, didn't they? And Legends of the Four. Of course, yeah. And yeah, they were great friends. And Anthony Hopkins said about him, he said, you've got this man who is a character actor of the highest regard trapped in a leading man's body. And yeah, no, you know, must have had as many human experiences as he's needed. to do this. mean, I'd done a film, it was a bit of flop actually, it was called Mortecai with Johnny Depp and I had a few days on it and we had this sequence in the V &A museum in London where they like cornered off the whole of Leicester Square and I was like what? You know, to shoot here and we'd done some scenes and then came outside and and I was talking to Johnny Depp and we had like one of his licquish roll-ups together. It was a cool moment. we were talking, he's talking about where I live and you know having a chat and I kind of looked over his shoulder like behind us and there was a row of people, I mean like 50 people who'd seen him and just like kind of started like buzzing, like buzzing with like excitement and... couple of squeals and stuff and there was security there and we kind of like ushered off to this actor's bit which was a little tent and had us snout in it. I just remember thinking after that, know, this man can't go down the shop. You can't, you can't, you know, run out of Rizla, can't go down the shop, you know. You can't, yeah. Can't come back. I'm gonna go for a walk, you know. that has to be thought about, that has to be protected. do you know what I mean? He's a level of such incredible fame that it was scary. And I remember finding that unbelievably frightening. know, I mean, he's obviously he's at a level where he can pay for privacy, pay for protection, pay for all this. know, nowadays, fame and fortune used to go hand in hand, but they're not synonymous anymore. So this is the point I was going to make because that in that case is like the trappings of success to the levels that he's now operating at. They do come hand in hand. Once you get to that point where you cannot walk down the street, that's part of your life that you've almost got to say that comes with a territory and signing up to that. Yeah. I'm including that in my price tag if you want to employ me. Yeah. You're building that into the figures. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you go into something like EastEnders, like the notoriety and there has to have been an uptick in the amount of people that you were seeing recognize you. Yeah, of course. And how do you deal with that? Especially with a young fan. Well, that was amazing, like how that happened. Yeah, I wouldn't say it was actually amazing all the time. It's nice. It's nice. People are generally lovely. They want to say, well done or I saw you. I thought you was good. You know, don't get really many negative ones. but yeah, I think I dealt with it. Okay. For a while. The novelty does wear off quickly. And, especially if you're with your children. Yeah. That's what, that's the angle I'm coming at it from. Especially imagine our kids are sitting. similar, very similar ages. Yeah. And I dealing with that while keeping a keeping them protected and feeling safe and secure. Yeah. Not wanting to combat, like have a combative experience with someone that may be coming up with I don't know, whatever. With anything. Can I have a picture? I do you know, or even and I'm happy to say yes and do it and like you know, I am but you know, you know that feeling if you're walking in a kind of a crowded place or a peopled area. where you will see someone out of the corner of your eye and you think, do I know that? Do I know that? Yeah. I know that face. Yeah. It's like having everyone do that to you. Yeah. Like, where do I know you? And I got that at the beginning of it. Who is that? You know, have I been in your living room? You know? Yeah, I have. Did you paint my eyes? Yeah, Yeah, that's it. You knocked my wall down, didn't you? Yeah. But no, it's like that. know, it sometimes can, you know, if you're not feeling too hot or, you know, you might have a hangover or just be tired and sometimes it can look like quite threatening. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. Interpretation of that. Yeah. I think the reality is that because without making it sound weird, I can't say it without sounding weird. I've seen you around. Yeah. I'll see you while I'm walking my dog in Chalkle Park. I know you've married to an old school friend of mine. I've always thought I could go up and say hello. Yeah. I don't want to intrude on your dog walk where I no idea what has gone on in your life that day. What's going through your head. And I'm sure, because I've been out with mates and we've seen actors or whatever and they have no regard for personal space. I've had other people jump on me before. don't even know. Hello mate, you're brilliant in that. know, swearing or something. And yes, not me. Yeah. you know, I was going through a big like, you know, cancer storyline. And then I had someone, I had a lady come up and give me a cuddle and like, like nearly crying. God. I was like, wow, you know, this is, it affects people. Yeah. It does affect people, you know? And that goes back to what I said about it being important for me somewhere. It affects people. I, want to affect people for the better, people to think, you know, and if you're privileged enough to be in a production and you manage to do that, have that effect on someone, it's quite an amazing thing. Yeah, I completely agree. And you are having an impact on people's lives. yeah, like I was again, not being a EastEnders fan or an avid watcher for the last however many decades. I was looking through those storylines as we said, and that's some heavy shit in the four year period. That's some heavy stuff to try and bear. It full on. It was full on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, that's it. Talk to me a little bit about what you're doing now because the next generation of actors coming through the ranks, you said about you're doing some teaching now, you're doing some coaching, some teaching, some education. Yeah, my wife was on it. Me about it. I'm gonna say was on at me. She, she was on at me about it. She suggested it and then she pushed for it. And I was, I think I was reluctant as well at first. didn't, you know, if I'm wanting to work outside or I want to do stuff on a building site or something, something with my hands or, know, I've never used my knowledge, for acting for teaching. Never really. And, And I don't know, it seemed strange to me. I was reluctant, but then I sat down and I wrote out a six week course for six to eight year olds, class one, class two, nine to 12 year olds, class three, 13 plus. Not that it's fresh in your mind. Yeah. And I started to enjoy it and I started to get the, okay, this is the basics. This is going to be fun. How is this going to help them? What, you know, and I've, I've taught these, this brilliant little group of kids now for two weeks. And yeah, they're great. I was in the library, I was printing them out sonnets to learn and, and monologues and poems. Yeah. And I, and I mean, I'm enjoying teaching them and I think I hope they're, they're enjoying it too. Yeah. Do you see this as a bigger commitment of time for you moving forward? Can you see yourself kind of really building this into how you spend your time now? Maybe, I think it's always going to be another feather in the cap, another string to the bow, another iron in the fire. Do you know what mean though? I'm a big one for irons in the fire. The more you've got, the better it is because my work is completely unreal. It is completely unreliable. It's, it's fickle and they don't take into consideration that you've got a family people, people you might earn well for a job and everyone will go, Blimey, that's, that's amazing. And then you'll be like, well, yeah, but that's not on top of, you know, a wage. It's not commission. It's the whole, the whole shebang. Yeah, that's like, you know, The whole shabazz and there's a lot of tax and a lot of agent takes some and then, know, you've got this. Yeah. Yeah. But it's, it's, it's about keeping it going. Trajectory is a, is a strange word for an actor as well, because in every other walk of life, your, trajectory you want is to go more and more higher, higher, like promoted. Yeah. And it doesn't work like that for an actor. You know, I graduated, I'd done bit parts in theater, supporting roles in theater, some leading parts in theater, then bit parts in TV, supporting parts in, and then some, you know, and you build up and that takes years and years, you know, to be trusted. Some people jump that and they get straight to those leads and supportings and that's what we call breaks. Yeah. You know? And you might get a couple of good breaks in your career, but my trajectory has not been linear up. It goes up then down, then, you do this little bit here, now do a lead on the West End stage, and now hold a spear. it's... And I suppose part of me loves that. You don't know what you're gonna do, but you have to get over that as well. It's not gonna be... just because I've got a great role in a good production now, doesn't, it not at all. No, very much on the next song. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. About what's going to happen next. If your kids, and we talked about your daughter being in a, episode of Piglets, which is the ITV show you've done, but if your kids come up to you from whatever age, you know, if your mum had identified in you from a young age, that acting could be like this, this thing that she wanted to kind of draw out of you. If your kids come to you and say, at whatever age, dad, this is what I want to do. I want to, not following your footsteps, but I want to go down this career of acting. What do you say to them? I look at my daughter, Beatrix, and I just don't think I have a choice. Really? It's written? Mac Tub, it is written. Honestly, honestly, I don't. She's, it's in her heart. And she's been on, yeah, we have like shown her the door. She's walked through it gladly. She loves being on stage. She's, you know, she's seven years old and she's been on the Cliffs Pavilion, the town gate, the palace. She's been on TV. The credits are racking up already. Yeah, the credits are racking up. She wants to do it, but you know, she's very young. Tomorrow she might want to be a marine biologist. But at the moment, you know what they're like, they're all or nothing. My son is two and he wants to be a monster truck. know, swings and roundabouts. How you termed it, you just mentioned it again earlier though, keeping doors open or opening doors for our kids to explore those opportunities from whatever age. As long as they're showing, like there's nothing more than I love. Like seeing my son get excited and passionate about something. Lego. is his thing. I mean, if you said there's a job and you could earn money building Lego for the rest of your life, sign him up now. He's locked in and that's it. I think there is a job. believe there is Lego. I believe hire people to like build stuff. Right. So these are the doors. These are the doors that you open for your kids. But yeah, think going back to, I think being a parent, having that responsibility to showcase to our kids what is available and the routes you can go down, nurture them, support them. Yeah. how much of that and getting that balance right is something that we all have to keep working at, isn't it? Yeah, and you know, yeah, you can't bind to yourself for joy. Be there for them when they need their handheld. Yeah. And if they need their handheld on the way out of that door because they hated it or they think they failed, then show them another door or help them dust themselves off again and try again. It's a constant... kind of learning process growing up. And it's a constant learning process being a parent. I can, yeah, you've reached into the choir there. Yeah, yeah, do you know what mean? And yeah, we're learning together. You know, no one knows your kids better than you. So yeah, you've got to make those calls, haven't you? Definitely. What have you got coming up, Ricky? What's in the pipeline or is there something specific in your mind that you would love, love to be part of now? Well, say it, well you're speaking about Piglets, I found out a little while ago. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to say this. We can always cut it out, Yeah, but it'd be good if we could keep it actually. bollocks, yeah. Piglets has been commissioned for series two. mate, I'm so pleased about that. I've loved it. I've absolutely loved it. So it's great. We got absolutely slammed, you know that? The first series came out and it was met with absolute... Venom. I've not seen any of that. Venom, Venom. yeah, from all these critics, but have you ever seen a statue of a critic? No, but it was met with Venom and we live in a very critical, very negative world at the moment, especially for comedy. Everyone is like, got their weapons drawn against new comedy. And, yeah, I don't know why. But anyway, that happened and it came back very negative and immediately I thought that, that's that done. You know, you've to stick your head out the sand and if it don't work, then, you know, onto the next or whatever. But then I saw this thing, I saw like, yeah, this is rubbish. Don't watch this. Episode two is even worse, guys. Honestly, episode two. And you should see episode three, episode four, five and six. Don't get much better. But episode seven, and it's like, hang on a minute, why are you watching? And even if that happened seven million times, seven million people watched it. And they were the figures, seven million people watched it. These are good numbers. And ITV obviously noticed that, or a little computer in the headquarters of ITV went green, green, green. There's a business case. yeah. Recommission. So that happened. yeah, yeah, I I got the call from Victoria. that's incredible. Congratulations. no, thank you. Well, do you know what? That's a big chunk of next year. Yeah. That'll be a big chunk of next year. It takes the pressure off. know? That's brilliant. I think, going back to your point, I don't want to dive into it too much because I've got some thoughts on why. comedy, I've got friends that are comedy, some friends that are comedy writers. Yeah. And they've said there's a resurgence in what I would say is like the, the, like not the golden age of comedy, but there's definitely, I would put Piglets into like, I mean this respectfully because I bloody loved it. Like a British empire type thing. Which you, haven't seen anything like that for a long, long time. Yeah. But I watched it and I thought it's such a good ensemble cast. Yeah. Such a, comedy in it. is something I hope I see more of again now. it resonated in me. was like, that's nostalgic. A nostalgic comedy. know, the people who made it have got their lives in comedy. Sam Leifer, directed it with Victoria, Sam wrote and directed every single episode of Plebs that I was in as well. And that's where I knew Sam from. And Victoria wrote and directed, I think, pretty much every episode of The Green Wing. Okay, yeah, yeah, got you. So you've got two like shows here and the whole team from like the the best of the best from each team have been squished together and made piglets and and they're they're just real telly people. Really lovely, incredibly difficult sometimes to work with. we have like six writers on piglets. Right. And any one time they could chuck pages, new pages out, you know, like could be day of filming, you know, and I found that, I found that I was quite under pressure for that, but I loved it. I loved it churning out, you know, just everyone was on the same page about the style of it and silly comedy that the, the commissioner of British police, I think came out and said, and said about piglets that it was like dangerous calling it piglets and like, you know, and then I think it snowballed from there, but you look at the show and it's not a reflection of our British, fantastic British police. It's not a reflection on human beings really, is it? It's silly, big character comedy designed to make people laugh. And you know. Yeah, that's important. Well, I can completely see why they've greenlit that. So congratulations, mate. And I'm glad as we've been talking about the consistency and having a period of time where you know, bills are getting paid, I've got to sink my teeth into Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it looks like 2025 is off to a good start. Yeah, yeah, I think so. I'm not sure when it'll be. I think it might be May time, March, April, May sometime. yeah, it takes the pressure off knowing something is around the corner. And you never know, you know, I've got four auditions in the ether at the moment that are all not a no. Right. It's not a no. So, yeah, you never know. You never know. It's potentially Korea in February and America in March. I don't know. You never know. Well, I look forward to seeing it all. next time I see you walking around Chalkwell Park with your Please leave me alone. Please come and say hello. And my dog's called Moose. Moose. Okay. And you can say he's friendly. Yeah. Nice. We've got two more things to do before I let you go, Ricky. And thank you for sacrificing so much of time as well doing this. I've really enjoyed it. There's a game. that we play and then there's a closing tradition on the podcast. So the game isn't too strenuous. It's this or that game. So I'll give you 10 questions, two options. You have to pick just one quick fire. me. Okay. This or that? Question number one, soap or Shakespeare? Shakespeare. Question number two, film or TV? TV. Question number three, drama or comedy? Comedy. Question number four, EastEnders or Him and Her? Him and Her. Question number five, Villain or hero? Villain. number six, stage or screen? Stage. Seven, costume, drama or modern setting? Modern setting. Question number eight, scripted or improv? Scripted. Question number nine, early morning call time or late night shoot? okay, hang on. Late night shoot. I didn't imagine that was going to be the one that stumped you. Question number 10, Stuart or Paul? God. God. I chose him and her over Enders. But I think I'm going to choose, I think I'm going to choose Stuart Highway. I think I've got to choose Stuart Highway. you. Thank you for getting involved in that. I appreciate it. Just to keep the equilibrium. I like that. And the closing tradition on the podcast, if you've ever got through a full episode. So my mum... has been a big part of this podcast. She does the closing question. So there's a question, my mum leaves me a voice note, voice memo. I don't listen to it. She knows who I'm talking to. This is something we've kept in for three seasons now, so it's stuck. And this is your mum's question? This is my mum's question. So I always apologise in advance because I don't listen to it. What's your mum's name? Lisa. So I think this is the one. Hi, Ricky. In your career as an actor, who are your role models? Thanks very much. Wow. She's played it safe there. I didn't know which way she was going to go. it safe. She has played it that is a great question because a few of them were teachers early life. Yeah, quite a load actually. A load of teachers. Are we talking general school or are talking specifically something like Ridley's or Guildhall? Yeah, I think Ridley's was the first. Ridley's was the first. teachers there that did it and then a couple of college and then all of them at Guildhall, incredible people. And then as far as performers go, I think, I mean, I always looked at people like Gary Oldman, I looked at people like Daniel Day Lewis, you know, and just, yeah, Anthony Hopkins, I've always thought is probably one of the greatest actors on the planet. everything that Anthony Hopkins done I admired and looked up to and yeah that's the kind of actor that I'd like to be one day. Amazing. Yeah I just need to get this kind of youth and middle-age out of the way and then I can play those parts. Just skip that bit and then yeah move to that. Alas, too old for Hamlet, too young for Lea. How's your fucking luck? And that, think we're going to end on. Ricky, it has been an absolute pleasure, mate. Thank you. And I know we've tried to attack this a third time lucky. So we've done it in the end, but it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you, sir. Thank you for having me, John. Thank you. Thanks for listening to Jobsworth. If you enjoyed this episode, please feel free to give us a follow wherever you listen to your podcasts and while you're there, if you could take two seconds to rate the show, that would be awesome. You can follow Jobsworth on Instagram where you'll get teasers for upcoming episodes, some behind the scenes videos and the occasional bit of career inspiration. And if you'd like to learn more about my day job, then feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn.