Gloves Off

In todays episode I sit down with boxing and conditioning coach Vic O'Dame. Vic shares his inspiring journey from growing up in South London to becoming a beloved figure in the local gym community. He discusses the lessons learned from boxing, the importance of discipline, and how exercise can positively impact mental health. Vic also reflects on the transition to full-time coaching, parenting and the values he aims to instill in his children. Vic shares his insights on the evolution of boxing styles and the significance of interpersonal skills in today's digital age provide a thought-provoking perspective on personal growth and community engagement.

Takeaways

• Boxing provided Vic with discipline and a sense of community.
• Vic emphasizes the importance of interpersonal skills in a digital age.
• Exercise can have a profound impact on mental health.
• Vic believes in the importance of hard work, dedication and discipline.
• Building relationships in the gym fosters a supportive community.
• The mental health benefits of boxing are significant.
• Coaching is rewarding when you see someone succeed.

Vic O'Dame

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/southendboxingcoachvic/
Rom Gym - https://romgym.squarespace.com/personal-training

Keywords

boxing, coaching, mental health, discipline, parenting, life lessons, fitness, community, old school values, personal growth, boxing, coaching, mental health, online training, celebrity boxing, cultural differences, confidence building, fitness, community, personal growth

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 1:10 Growing Up in South London
• 6:11 The Journey into Boxing
• 12:45 Old School vs New School Boxing Styles
• 18:33 The Impact of Boxing on Life Skills
• 24:09 Transitioning to Full-Time Coaching
• 30:58 Parenting and Life Lessons
• 34:09 Reflections on Work Ethic and Mindset
• 35:35 Building Confidence and Understanding Cultural Differences
• 39:06 The Universal Language of Boxing
• 43:19 Adapting to Online Coaching During Lockdown
• 49:09 The Mental Health Benefits of Boxing
• 56:08 The Impact of Celebrity Boxing on the Sport
• 1:01:14 The Rewards of Coaching and Personal Growth
• 1:05:07 This or That Game
• 1:07:17 Lisa's Question

Transcript

0:00

And if you get to a point where you need a break, you just say you need a break, or you need the toilet, say you need the toilet, is that the end of school? that's it. to school at slightly different times. I missed the cake. Welcome to episode 11 of Jobsworth season three. This week's guest is Essex-based boxing and conditioning coach, Vic Odami. Vic is something of an enigma. He's been a mainstay at my local gym every day for as long as I've trained there, always smiling, remembers everyone's name and makes the effort to say hello to them and never far from his vast collection of torture devices or boxing pads as he calls them. But as for Vic's story, well, I knew absolutely nothing about it. So obviously I had to change that. In this episode, we discuss what it was like growing up in South London, learn why he first stepped into a boxing gym at the age of 14 and explore the that boxing has taught him over the years. We also talk about the impact exercise can have on your mental health, the importance of discipline when it comes to achieving your goals, fitness related or otherwise, and Vic's stance and old school values and why he's passing them down to his kids. Parenting comes up as does the importance of accepting help and support from the people around you and making big decisions. And I asked Vic all about his other passion, DJing. And I couldn't let him leave without getting his take on the rise of celebrity boxing bouts. Now, If you know a Vic, you're about to get to know him a lot better and if you don't, prepare to be inspired by the story of a true gent whose work ethic, drive and sheer force of will has got him to where he is today. So without further ado, let me introduce you to the local legend that is Vic Odami. So when you were younger, what did you want to be when you grew up? I thought was going to be in the army. Okay. Yeah, I was going to do the army thing, but I didn't have the, at the time I didn't have the education for it. So I sort of like got into work basically. Yeah. What was the inspiration? Why, why was the army a sort of thing that you had in your, in your I always liked to be active. I always wanted to be active. And I just thought that was a good way to go is a good career and all my friends were doing it. So I just thought I'd go that way. Yeah. Yeah. How old were you? Do you remember the earliest memory you had? Yeah, when I was about 12, 13, everyone was getting involved in what we was doing and then our brothers and our sisters, they're the older ones, we're doing stuff. So you see what they do and you just sort of want a copy, don't you, when you're young. Right, okay, yeah. So you had that kind of inspiration or you had a couple of people around you that you'd seen go down that we all lived in an estate, man, where I come from, it was like called Pollards Hill. Okay. And a lot of the kids... They sort of like, everyone sort of moved out eventually. It was like a cancel state. And then you just done the best you could for yourself. know what mean? So whereabouts did you grow up then Vic? I grew up in South London basically. Sort of like towards the edges. So was between Streatham and Tooting. All around that area. I went to school in Mitcham. So between Mitcham and Tooting. It's called Eastfield then, but I think it's called something else now. A few years back now. It's totally different around that way now. When you go back there, my mum still lives around there. she? Yeah, she's still over that way, but it's totally different area now. So when was this? Because I'm always interested in how old you are, Vic. I've never quite worked out. I'm 59 now. You're 59? Yeah. So I'm just going to talk to anyone listening to this now. That will be news to a lot of people in the gym that we'll go on to discuss in a second. you look bloody amazing, mate, for 59. Not just that. You didn't sleep in the morning. Once the makeup's on, you look all good. This, like Vic seeing opposite me now is just that you are a powerhouse, mate. Like the work you do in the is just incredible. So I was always, I was hoping we'd get to the bottom of how old you were. I don't think you were hiding it before, but yeah. So we're talking, what sort of time are we talking then? Like the seventies? Yeah, late seventies. so yeah, seventies. My parents are from Ghana, originally. So that's like West Africa. And your surname is Ghanaian, isn't it? Yeah. Right. name's O'Dar, my father's yeah. My dad's passed away a couple of years back now, but he comes from one side of the world and my mum comes from another side of the world over that way. Right, okay. It's quite interesting. It's two different mixes again. So were they kind of first generation or coming to Coming to the country, yeah. Big silver, aluminium box. She's still got it in the loft. Really? Wow. proper heavy as well when you see it, it's unreal. So were you born here? Yeah, I was born here. I was born in Croydon. And what was that like kind of growing up at that time in London? It was good. was good. I mean, there's a few difficulties as you get older, as you get older, you start realising things a little bit different, but then you sort of just have to get on with it. Yeah. Nice. So you had these kind of aspirations to be in the army. Why didn't that come off? didn't you explore I didn't have the education at the time. You did so. Okay. Yeah. I sort of built myself up. Lucky enough, I had good people around me which had helped me. So it was quite good. Yeah. So obviously we're talking to you now because when you put on your form, you've been doing it for 40 years. How old were you when you started? But it kind of makes sense now that you're 59. Yeah, I was such young. I had a little spell when I was away from all of the boxing thing and the martial arts thing. I had a little spell away from it and then I come back into it. Okay. So talk to me then. So you've got these aspirations of going into the army and the first memory you've got of that is around 12 years old. You realise maybe the education isn't there to back up that route and that path into it. So when did, I know you from... So I 14, I had a few friends who were boxing at the time and there was an old fella called Bill, he was actually an Army man himself. We used to go down to this place in Figs Marsh, sort of between Toot and Mitcham and used to have a little gym there. and that's where I probably got my press ups from because he used to do a lot of press ups. really? he was a sort of barrel bellied fella, but he was super strong, do know what mean? And he's one of those school, they'd have a cigarette and all that and they'd be training and all this nonsense. You'd be looking mad now. wouldn't get allowed in let alone Even then when I was boxing as a kid, He was a schoolboy, in box of schoolboys and stuff and they had smoke. Nowadays, they'd be up raw. Yeah, yeah. And he took us on and he took a few of my other friends, all from Collierswood around that way. And we used to go and train with him and we stayed with him for a few years and then we left. And then I went to, I left him and I went to a club called Rose Hill and that's further up the road going outwards again. And I stayed with them for about six years. And there was a blood called Don Taffarelli and a few others there and his brother Victor. And they took me on for a little while. I stayed with them for a few years, about 30 fights with them lot. And then I went to Kingston and had 12 fights with them lot. And that was their Freddie bar. And that was good. I'd done the Nationals over there. And then I got to the semis in the London's, which was quite tough. There's a lot of guys who went on. The guy who beat me went on to the final, he actually got to the final. So I was pleased with that. So it was good. So, and he was, we was both novices at the time. We was both good novices at the time and he was a good novice too. So he done really well. old were you from, from that point? So the first time you stepped foot in the boxing gym? Yeah, I was 14 when I first started. Okay. And I was probably about early twenties when I sort of like got to that stage. Yeah. So why boxing? When I was a kid, I was quite small. Okay. I just felt that I had to look after myself. Yeah. And if you've got people out there your size, you have to deal with them. It's hard, you know what mean? So you just do your best. Right. Okay. So you just feel confident, you know, in anything, if anything, you wouldn't get into trouble because you could look after yourself. Yeah. And then in the day, it sort of taught me discipline. You need that. When you're young, you're sort of pretty wild and then you just do what you're up to, what you're up to about you. you learn to conform and get on with what you need to as you get older. So that was the driving force behind stepping into the gym in the first place. Yeah, you've to look after yourself. Bit of a smaller stamp and you wanted not to be picked on. You've look after yourself, definitely. Did you have siblings, Yeah, I was the oldest though. I was the oldest, yeah. So how many brothers or sisters? I'm the oldest, I've got two sisters, one brother. and my brother's about 10 years younger than me, two sisters. My sister's a year younger. And the other one, Debbie, she's like six gap, the gap between six years and my sister. But yeah, back in those days, you had like a lot of things going on, John. was like, people didn't have money as well. And there used to be a thing called SBG, police, back in those days. And they weren't really nice people. You had to deal with that and you you didn't have nowhere to go. So you just had no choice to look after yourself the best you could. So I guess the community or the people, the tribe that you built at that time, 14, going into those gyms, making those friends and having, again, you've got the kind of role models around you too, that both show you from a boxing perspective, but they, I'd assume you'd have role models that were giving you the lessons in discipline too. Because once you learn to box, yeah, well that's it. It's discipline in being regimented enough. and on it enough to turn up to the sessions, but also discipline to use what you then learn in a responsible way as opposed to, the tough guy, I'm going to beat the shit out of But to the tough guys, normally a lot of them can't box. Right. And then you get guys who can't box, but they can fight. Right. It's really weird boxing. I've seen it so many times, really good boxers and then you put them in the other situation and they can't fight. And then you get really good fighters on outside the ring and they can't box. You have to sort of learn. It's a skill, it's craft. Yeah, of course it is. But you can take a good fighter and turn them into a good boxer and vice versa. You can do... Well, the way I look at it, I look at how you are. You look at someone and see what they do and then you sort of adapt them. It's not like we're trying to make a fighter into a boxer. you've got to make him a box fighter. So teaching the skills so that he can box with the fight and then getting out of trouble. That's the way I look at it. I think you said on your pre-interview questionnaire about sort of new styles and old styles of boxing and without getting too technical about it, because there's going to be some people that are into their boxing, listening to this and others that will be interested in you but don't care so much about the boxing. But what does that mean to me? You're someone that's ignorant to it. What are new and old styles of boxing? Well, more days, the New York styles are more switch hitter fighters where they change styles. If they're an orthodox fighter, they switch to southpaw or vice versa. And the movements are slightly better. I Muhammad Ali really broke it down and then he started doing different things and then it sort of upgraded. But if you look at the old school fighters, they're very flat footed, they don't move too much. hold their ground and work and when you look at them you can see what they've been doing in rounds. The new fighters, a lot of them, you don't see them, they look baby faced. you can see the cauliflower ears, crushed cheekbones. They hit a move and I mean there's so many ways of skinning a cat. Well I don't know if that's right but... that's the analogy, I get it. But you can, if someone's strong then you speed. If someone's not so strong then you put pressure on them. And you know, whatever they do, you do the opposite. so you're working, you're identifying someone's strength and then leaning into as opposed to, here's a model that we're trying to aim for and whoever's coming through the mix, you've got to lean into their strengths. You're trying to do the same things all the time, but there's like bases that you have to the base. I mean, my base is that you control the middle of the ring and you work from there. And if you're in the middle of the ring, it's like pantomime, when someone's in the middle, those look like in charge where they're not on. whether they are or not. So if they're in the middle, it looks like you're in charge. So when someone comes out, they come out to you, they meet you. They ain't got nowhere to go. But if you're in the ropes, it just looks like you're in trouble all the time. So you've got to the ropes like razor blades. You don't want to be there. So 14 going into this boxing gym, you start going through sort of seven, eight years into your early twenties and then you are fighting at a a decent level. What do you think it takes to stick with it? Because 14, let's say 14, 15, right teenage years, there's loads of stuff that can take you out of that route that you've gone on, you know. you're I just think it's different for young ones now because of the social media thing. You didn't have that so much when I was young. You didn't have people with phones. You sort of like, you knew your tribe, went to where you wanted to be. mean? Nowadays, everyone's like, you've got your phone, can within seconds, you know, about 20 things or 30 things, you know, so now it's a totally different game. is it a question of focus? you think how much our focus has now diluted and moved into different areas? have to have a little bit of natural ability, but I just feel like, I mean, in boxing, think every trainer looks for that person. And I think in your lifetime, you probably might get two or three. in your lifetime as a trainer who got that thing what you're looking for. What I've noticed so far, I'm not done yet, but that's what I've noticed. You've been doing it long enough to know. I think you've had like a lifetime's career. I train, deal with are people who have never boxed before. Most of them have never boxed and they've come from, they all want to box. Some have got it and others haven't. you just make the best of what they've got and see where they go with it. How do you, how do you nurture that? in people. if you see someone come into the ring, I'm not angling at you talking about me now Vic, but if you see someone coming to the ring that has got something that you think actually you've got a talent here, I can nurture this. then, know, at whatever stage of life and whatever ability they've got, that's a responsibility, isn't it? Or do you take that as a responsibility? have to, because you can get hurt. I mean, if you're doing it properly, I mean, like I say to people, even if they're good fighters, they've been to some other gym or whatever they've done and they want to be at a skill level with me, where they want. I say, if you're going to train with me, we're going to go out to show. You have to be with for one year. You can't say the boxers have been with me. You've got to be a year before we even go there. All this stuff about people going into gyms and they need 12 weeks, they go and have a fight. For me, that is just not right. That's irresponsible. Irresponsible and all that asks is your money. You know what mean? But for me, if you want to train properly, any good trainer will tell you, you've got to spend a year with me before we're going to get anywhere. And that's the game. You have to put time in for you, the person you're training. Yeah. And you've got that responsibility. You've also got a responsibility. Let's say someone gets in with you and says, I want to fight. I want to battle. And you are there thinking you are going to get absolutely... I guess you've got variables. You can control to a degree who they're going up against or whatever, but... Yeah, but even that, in the world I'm at the moment, it's difficult because people don't tell the truth. Right. So even if a trainer tells you, he's done this and done that, he might have done something else, he's come from somewhere else, you don't know where he's come from. you have to sort of weigh it up. But like when I say to people, you're going to get ready for a fight, but be prepared to fight anybody. So your mentality is you are ready to fight anybody. So if you want to be the best of the best, make sure you do the best you can. And that's it. And that's their lessons that you must have picked up. It's your own work ethic. You've picked them up in the gyms that you've both trained at and then you are training at over the years. What did your mom and dad think when you started getting into boxing gyms? My mom was a bit worried and my dad wasn't like, he wasn't that interested really. But as I got older, then he goes, he used to say to me, do you like it? And I looked at him and I said, yeah, I do really like it. It keeps me right. goes, yeah, I can see that now. But back in the day, It is more about education, this sort of thing, where I was more like out, being out there doing what I've got to do, keeping fit and all the rest of it, being a young man. What was your experience like at school? Because you said obviously the army didn't become a path you could go down due to education. Did you enjoy school? Was it a challenging time for you? I think it was challenging. I didn't really appreciate school as much or I felt they didn't appreciate me because I feel like I'm the right one. But anyway, as I got older, I sort of found my way. I was lucky to have really good people around me. I meet people all the time and they've always got good advice. the advice you don't like, you don't have to take it on board. But when someone's telling me it sounds right, I'll take it on board. You know, that is. Yeah. And if it wasn't for boxing at 14, what other routes were available to you, do you think? Because you've turned something that you went into a gym and loved doing. I don't know if it was a positive route because, I mean, a lot of people my age, a lot of the young ones, they're not around anymore. of them are dead now. So it's a funny one, know what I You don't know, you what I mean? My sisters and all that, they've all done all right for themselves, so. I just don't know really, but I really like boxing as a young man and I like to be out and about. Yeah. And I guess it got you socialising, got you in the community, got you doing something that was good for you physiologically and mentally. It was definitely good for me. I'd recommend it to any youngster. People think they're a bit of a thuggery thing. It's not about a thuggery thing at all. It's all about learning skills and adapting yourself. And then adapting skills you learn, you can take them to jobs and whatever you've got to do, you know, and it helps you. You meet good people and you understand people because you meet so many characters in boxing. And it's from one level to the other level. And when you understand the different levels, you know, you learn a lot and do things. It's nice. There's a lot of transferable stuff, isn't it? That you can take into any walk of life. I think for me, and what's been lovely about it, I was introduced to like martial arts and boxing at a younger age through my stepdad. And I think he would have loved for me to carry on down certain routes and keep boxing and then boxing. I did a little bit of training when I was in my twenties and got punched in the head, felt my brain shake and I was like, no way, no way am I getting in and doing that again. That's what happened to me as it goes because one time I had a little break from boxing and it was about eight years and I went to my friend's gym. and he had a gym in Roundshore, and it's called Roundshore Boys. And he'd come and train with me and get back on it. I like, I put a lot of weight on it, probably 10 kilos of weight. I was about 36 ways. I'm 32 now, but at that time it big. I always working on the builds, I was driving the forklifts at the time. And I went back to the gym with him and I thought I still had it. So I went in, these young guys, all 17, 15s. I'll go and have a little spa. And honestly, I've got such a hiding and I was like, I ain't doing that again. I'm to sort this out right now. And like after that, I never looked back. I just put back in all the effort into it. Then I've done my coaching badge with that lot. I training the youngsters there. And I haven't looked back. And that was early 2000s wasn't it? So 2004, 2005 it was. So this is one thing I wanted to touch upon because going into a gym at 14, having those years in gyms and coaching with people and having those role models is one thing, then deciding actually I could probably make a living from this. This is something I'm passionate about, I wanna do it, I you know, I get something from coaching people, but I also can make a career out of it. So when does it become a point of you saying, I wanna start making some money doing this? Yeah, well what happened was I moved to Southend. How old were you then, I was sort of like late 20s, like nearly, I was in my 30s, I'd say. Early 30s, I'd say. And then I moved down here and then I started working in a couple of gyms as training. And then I met a guy called Darren and then I used to train with that group of people and I used to do pound around for pad work. Okay. I think it was 50 pence. We do 50 pence around when I first started. I was working then, I still working, I working in London, but I said come down after work and then I train and I do like maybe 50 pence around I think it was then it went up to a pound and so on. Yeah. That's when people remembered me from was back in the day when I used to do rounds with people. Yeah. nice. Yeah. That's when I started doing it. So what were you doing in London though? was only working, I only on the, as a hog carrier, I was building, I was in the building sites working. Yeah. Yeah. And I had a forklift license and I used to do that. And then I moved down this one, I started working locally and then I started training again. And that's when I started meeting people that yourselves along the way. Yeah. Because I guess, My question was, yeah, it's one thing to go through that system and then be passionate about boxing, but it's another thing, especially back then, to make a living from it. Because the fitness industry has evolved a hell of a lot over three, four decades. I've got a really great partner, my wife. She's really helped me sort stuff out. So she helped me with all my paperwork side and stuff like that. And looked after me. And she's a great lady. She's done so much for me over the years. So you've been married nearly 20 years now. years. Yeah, so really down to her. helped me sort the style of stuff I needed to sort out. I love her for it. She's a good woman. And we brought up four kids together. So, you know, it was really hard. Yeah, I'll bet. And that's the other thing I wanted to touch upon. So you kind of make this, I guess the good thing about working on construction sites, and I've done it, my stepdad has spent his entire life as a scaffolder and is now still working at, God, I'm going to miss age him, 60. 465 still doing it and I think if he gave up he'd keel over. He's just got that work ethic from the age of 14. think that helps with my boxing as well because when you're young you couldn't mess around. If you didn't do your job on the building site you're down. I remember labouring. I never cut you nicely John. You're amazing. I all the good words when I was on a building site. All the fun words and all the ways to be spoken to. And yeah, that was an interesting time, but it did teach me a good work ethic. I've got to be honest. So I can imagine if you've been doing that for a chunk of time, that's great. making that transition from, let's call it a stable job. You know, know, you're to turn up however many days a week and get a paycheck at the end of it. to go and freelance as a coach or self-employed as a coach is a big step. It takes But it was the same with my work as well when I I was laboring and worked for myself. So, it's sort of like you're still in the same boat because you've been one job for a week and they say we don't need you anymore. So it wasn't like PAYE, you're not getting a salary all the time. never got a salary. You say you're always working for yourself. Yeah. You know what mean? So you get used to it. So like when people started crying over they losing their jobs, I'm like, well, go and get another one. Right, That's what I had to do. I no choice. I'd go from South London to North London with my tools and then do a day's work and then go to the gym. But that I think is the good thing about applying a trade or getting involved in such a hands-on physical job. Those skills are always going to be needed, aren't they too? And I think some people almost do themselves out of that by going so niche in what they want to do or maybe not being comfortable getting Get on the tools or get outside. I just feel like if you need to earn money, you've got to do what's necessary to go and get it. I'd like to feel that I've done my bit. I never wanted to be on the dole. I don't like it. Especially when we had to deal with all this lockdown stuff. Everyone was struggling in my things. Other people were doing alright, but for me, I just felt like... It's going back to back in them days, you know, which is a difficult time. want to talk about lockdown in a bit as well, because obviously that in the industry you were operating in was... It was tough, I had to go in the park and then you've got people looking at you like you're crazy. I think I talked the other day about when I used to do boot camps. yeah, just exercising outside, are looking at you you'd get a bigger audience than you would a bloody team of people doing the boot camp itself because they they weren't used to it. Lockdown was an incredibly interesting time for so many, but the fitness industry was hit incredibly hard. It was hard, was definitely hard. was hard. And you just find out how people really are. And I just found it difficult with people because I just try and be as straightforward as I can. But even when it comes down to your neighbours, I was doing a bit in my garden and people were phoning the police on me and stuff like that. It was awful. you know what I mean? I think in hindsight, so many people that were very... And it's a generalisation, I don't want to offend anyone, but so many people during that time, I think if they look back at some of the thoughts and feelings or actions they did, you know, if you really had a bit of introspection, you'd be like, I wouldn't do that again, or I make like, people should be genuine, not full of like sheep. You've got look at something and look at it twice, you know, before you even go and get involved in saying what you're going to say, you know, and understand things. I mean, that's what I do. I do. Exactly. I would like to think I'm someone that thinks critically about stuff and ask some questions. I don't get it right all the time, but I try and do my best, you know, on the information I've got. Talk to me about that transition then from you're doing your construction work and then you're doing full-time coaching. When did that change happen and what did that feel like at the time to make that decision? You're walking away from one thing and fully investing in another. What it was, I people coming up to me and say, can I train with you a bit more? Basically from when I was doing my pad work sessions. And then I had a couple of people that had been with me for about nearly 20 years as well. And they were doing well. And they said to me, look, I've got properties. Do want to come and do a gym? At the time I didn't have the confidence to do a gym for myself. And I mean, they said, you should be doing this yourself. Do know what mean? And I just didn't have the confidence at the time. But if I look back on it, I wish I did have a go at it, but like it's one of them things you learn in Kerr, but I'm happy. I've got some good people around me. They let me get on with what I do. They set me up a ring and it's been great. I've been at Romgym for nearly five years. They're good crowd. know? That's what I love about the community there. I've obviously had Ed Oden and spoken to so many people on the podcast that have been to ROM or know of it. And the biggest thing for me, I've trained there for about three years now, but the biggest thing is the community. And I've got to say, Vic, like when I told people in the gym that you were coming on, every single one of them, just a big smile on their face straight away. Like you are so loved down there. And I've got to say like you are. you are one of the things that keeps that community alive because I'm just going to speak at you now and you can take it and if I make you blush then you can't. But when I first came in, made the effort to you make eye contact with everyone and say hello and then within a session you know everyone's name. And in a gym that can sometimes maybe feel a little bit scary for people, like you know can walk into a gym environment and maybe feel insecure or self conscious and just someone making an effort to know your name and say hello to you just completely takes the edge off and I've seen you do that to me, my partner Sophie, it's like a tiny petite thing that doesn't train in gyms a lot. People much older, people much younger and you've got the same approach to everyone. make that. human beings, everyone's a human being. Yeah. The first thing you do is get to know someone's name. Yeah. Yeah. And then you go from there, you have a little conversation and that's it. But that's you. That's you. It's not a broad brush thing for everyone. And I think it's a bit of a lossy. I don't disagree. I'll talk to some of the youngsters I talk to and they find it difficult to have a conversation with you. Unless you approach them and say something to them, they can't actually communicate with you. It's not a good thing. They're good on their phones and stuff like that, but they can't actually speak to people. face to face and you got to be able to speak to everybody. You know, whatever, whatever they're doing, you better speak to anyone. I can't get on a bus and talk to someone or a chain. Yeah. It shouldn't make any difference. they're the sort of soft skills that you developed over years in the gym on building sites. Those interpersonal skills are so important. yeah, without making us both sound really old Vic, I do think the generation beneath me are now struggling with some of that because of of the engagement, most of it's digitally, like we're all on our phones or laptops. And yeah, I would say that a 20 year old is going to be much more technologically savvy than me. would they be able to do this? Would they be able to hold a conversation? a conversation can change your whole life. You just got to know what you know, you've got to talk to everybody. You know, I mean, my two youngest ones, I make sure they can talk to everybody. Yeah. This is John, this is whoever. Yeah. Say hello. Yeah. Take it from there, don't be shy. But as a parent, that's all I'm wanting for my kids to, I don't care what they go on to do academically. I just want them to be as happy as I can make them or given the tools to go off and be happy themselves, I guess is the best, better way to describe it. But also I never want them to sit in silence. If they want to say something, I want them to have confidence to say, I'm not happy I've got that going on, John, sometimes it's difficult, but I get what you're saying. It's like when you have a kid, When you have a kid, you're trying to teach them a skill or the right way to do something. But sometimes they see things differently, but you try and draw it back and just go with it. Especially as they get older, they've got their own mindsets, they've got their own way they interpret things. But yeah, think as a parent, all we want is for our kids to be, happy. Even that's being kind of looked upon as a bad thing sometimes. We can't guarantee happiness. No, but my dad used to say to me, if you're going to make yourself happy, that's the right way to be. You've got to make yourself happy. Someone else can't do it because you could be miserable. What's that? You wasted 10 years being miserable. I'm not having that. I'm only enjoying my life. Do different things. I do all sorts of things. I mean, I'm still like, feel like I'm 18. You bloody look it, Vic. That's a terrifying thing. But I think that's a great outlook. But again, we're living in a world where not everyone shares that. For some people, it's a mindset that's modified by what's going on around them. And they've taken a lot of that in. know, I've suffered with mental health and depression over the years. And in good spells, I can get completely on board with what you're saying. And in bad spells, I mean, wouldn't be in the first place. I'd be in bed with the doof over my head and wanting the world to swallow me up. I think your mindset is quite, in the best possible way, infectious. I just wanted to use this. I wanted to use it as an opportunity just It's nice to know that people are interested because like in my head I always feel that am I doing enough? I don't really, you what mean? I mean there's a question of what are you out there to do? And I feel like you've had a pretty good north star with that. You know the direction you've wanted to head in. All I do is just live, I'm just trying to live my life like most of us. We're all trying to get on with stuff and be the best we can be. And that's how I look at it. You just try and be the best you can be. and enjoy life as much as you can. know what mean? There's no point waiting. You know, think, I'll do that another year's time. I'll think about that. If I can do it now, I'll just get on with it. And that's it. Yeah. So you made that transition from like into full-time coaching and then, yeah, I guess no looking back after that. You've been going, do you get nervous sometimes? Lock down a side when everyone was in a weird position, but... Do the nerves take hold sometimes like, shit, have I got enough money coming in? Have I got enough clients there? Is the work there? Have you had those moments of doubt? Yeah, yeah. I mean, for me, you work because you work for yourself. You always got to think what's around the corner. you always try and do your best. And I've never lived any way different. So I just think that you just get on with it. Yeah. It's a good mindset to have, mate. think I do. Yeah, no, cool, share. Yeah, just as a self-employed coach, I used to be a PT for seven years and I know what it was like. I was living at home and I was fortunate enough that I wasn't paying rent and I was mollycoddled basically. So if I didn't make money for a week, I was all right, but I still used to shit myself that, you know, if can't do nothing about money though, John Kenyon. You have to go out and get it. Simple. No, that's really, I mean, it's a good lesson to take away, especially for people that maybe, like I said, a younger generation that might be sat there wondering what's the shortest route to get money? Sometimes you've got to take the long way around. You've to suits you and what you're capable of. You just make the most of it. You're really good at something, just do it. There's no point sitting in laurels because what are you wasting your time for? It's a shame, isn't it, if you're wasting it? Yeah. So the advice that you give, you've got four kids. The advice you give, I don't know what the age ranges are. I've got one at 25 coming up. one at 23, then I've got a 12 year old and I've got 11 year old. Wow, okay. Two boys and two girls. That's quite a range, isn't it? So let's say the ones in their 20s, what advice were you giving them earlier on when they were starting to think maybe about how they were going to shape work or their careers coming out of school? Just to say to them, just do your best. Are you happy? know, what are you doing? And find out what they're doing and stuff like that. If I can help them, I help them. Whatever they needed, just being a dad or, you know. You just go and help them whatever they need, you go and get it for them. And if they needed something, you sort it out for them. If they need to go away on a trip or whatever they needed to do, you should do your best for them. Just try and give them confidence. And that's the hard bit, you give them confidence. then so they understand who you are to make them understand who they are. mean? And that's how it works. When you say that, do you talk about your experience growing up? Yeah, it's totally different for them. It was totally different for their experience, but for them. And it's the same for me, look at how things were for my mum and dad, mean? The experience they went through was slightly different from me. So, they dealt with different things because they come from a different background. When you come to the UK or Britain, it's a different world altogether, isn't it? What they've known. Where's the cultural difference? You're learning and learning. I mean... Ghana was one of the colonies under Britain, so there's things in place already, do know what I mean? And then it's just like a step over and you just carry on with your lives. If you don't mind me asking, Vic, have you ever been to Ghana? Yeah, when I was a youngster. I haven't been there a lot, I went there as a young man. I don't really remember loads of it, bits and pieces. Yeah, it was nice. It's warm. Yeah, it was great like that. But I've got like people around me have all come from different parts of the world. mean, I train everybody from all around the world. So to me, I just look at you as a human being. So I don't really care what country you come from. You want to train, we're going to go to work. that's it. And that's where guess boxing or It's a universal language, isn't it? You don't have to speak English to be doing it. You don't have to come from a particular place. It's a universal language that you can learn. You can work with everybody and that's the beauty of it. Or any sport or, you know, it's how you are with people, really, the person. Take me back just quickly to that gap that you had. Why did you have an eight-year gap away from it? I think you fall out love with something. Because I started quite young and then when you get older, you sort of like these things missing, especially when you've been doing it consistently for a long time. And that's where people go wrong. Cause I say to people, you have to have other hobbies. If you're just done boxing, boxing, boxing, or whatever sport you do constantly, you don't have nothing else to go to. That's why I think it causes psychological damage to people. You have to have like three or four different things on the go in your head so that you're not sort of like. feeling a void. As soon as you stop your sport, you've got something else to go to. So when I'm training these youngsters or the older ones, I say to them, look, you've got to find something else to do. So that when you finish this, you're comfortable because it's a downward spiral for a lot of the people if they haven't got nothing else to do. So it's a bit of risk mitigation, isn't it? Because yeah, you could get an injury one week and they never- never box or box at least at the same level again. there's that to it. it's also, I mean, let's talk about your other love with DJing. When did that start to take shape? That started when I was like in my early twenties, basically. I've been collecting records and doing my music thing for over like 30 years, maybe 40, 35 years now. And it's got quite a lot of records. I'm like proper old school compared to the youngsters now with their little, whatever you call it. the sticks. Yeah, yeah. So it has to be vinyl, does For me it's got to be vinyl because I like to feel it and I used to think that when I listen to a sound system, I'm listening to the frequencies. My missus goes mad at me talking about frequencies. No one cares and all that. I'm like, yeah, yeah they do. care. Anyone who knows about music, they care about frequencies. But yeah, going back to my music and stuff, yeah, I've been collecting music a long time. It's one of them places where I can go and I'll just get lost in it. You know, I like a lot of music. I don't collect all the different types of music, but the music I collect makes me happy. you know. So that's bit of an escape, but a bit of mindfulness, a bit of like taking you to a different place. Yeah, totally. That's your off switch as well as something that... So when did collecting music then become DJing? How did that opportunity come about? When I was young, we used to go to a... There was a place called the Railway in Tuin and my friends started doing little club things there and they went on to do like other stuff. They wanted to do, I didn't get a road to garage cause I liked to deep house and techno and stuff like that back in them days. So, but there was all into the garage thing, but they started me off there doing some bits in there. So it was like a pub basically. I used to go there and you give me an hour, go and play and do stuff. And then I couldn't mix at all then. It was like clatter, blank, clap, bang, and then like. you go back to the drawing board and start learning how to mix properly. And then you start watching all these other guys doing the scratch mixing and stuff like that and you learn and you pick up little tips and then you just got to spend hours, John, in slight box and you've got to spend hours dealing with it and adjusting yourself and you learn how to mix properly. Now you couldn't tell if I put two records together, you wouldn't know if I mixed it or it's been sank in with a bit on the computer. I could mix smoothly. it's just one of those things. Getting that committed to it. You know where you can mix on the record when the vocals come in, you can't mix that bit, can't mix on that bit. You can mix out of it and all sorts of stuff, it's years and years of learning your music. is there a part of you that wanted to keep that for you or do you enjoy being like, cause you DJ at the sun rooms. So that's one of the places that I know that you do that, which again, I only found out about six months ago. Well, got a friend who actually trains us as well and he said, do you want to do a little bit? And I said, yeah. And he collects records, he does both sides. And he's a good DJ, he makes records himself. So he said, come aboard. And then we met up a few times and it was like, here we go. So yeah, it's really nice. And do you enjoy getting that audience reaction? Yeah, I do, really like it. It's all part of it, definitely. Especially when people understand what you're doing, because you've got to get them to feed into what you're trying to do. And then that's the art bit. Once they get it, then you think, okay, here we go, move on. It's not just the music they're reacting to, it's the artistry and the skill between... Yeah, the skill set to make the music work, you know mean? And you've got to play the right track to make them go, okay, I know this one. And then all of sudden, next minute, they're moving their head, okay, all right, let's try this one now. And all of a sudden they're dancing there. You've got them dancing, they're I've got it now. Where you go? Locked in. Can you... And this is purely out of my own curiosity. If you've got like a set list in your head and you know things are going wrong... or people aren't reacting in the way that you assume they would. You can change that on the day, can make It all comes into what you've got in your box, because I'm limited, but when you've got a stick, as they I was going to say, you've got actual physical vinyl. I'm training all the time, John. I'm carrying them boxes. I like that, though. In the most respectful way, that is old school, isn't it? That's the way to it. I've got my records ready. Press ups. Yeah, I bet there's sometimes the thought that you want to start shouting some boot camp stuff as well. But yeah, think that ability to be able to think on your feet and react to a room, I it's great that you kind of honed that talent as well. It brilliant. And it all comes down to what time you're playing this set and things like that. It's all technical stuff, but it's all fun. You've got to enjoy it. Yeah, definitely. Talk to me a little bit about lockdown, because... working in the fitness industry during that time, was one of, I'd say, the most hard hit or at least one right up there with one of the most hard hit industries. you mentioned on your pre-interview questionnaire that online coaching became a thing for you around that time. How was that? Because again, going virtual when you've been used to being physically in a space for your entire life, and you've been doing it for the decades that you've been doing it and then going into Zoom, Why were you driven to do that beyond making money? Because you mentioned mental health and that being a focus. because it was a case of where people couldn't go out and about. People used to text me and say, can you do a session with me on Zoom? So what I used to say to them, we all locked in at the same time and we used to do a class together. I'd be training with them. As you do, if anyone doesn't know. I can't not do it. I have to do the same because I don't ever want someone to say, well, you can't do that, but I can do this. I could never deal with that. I can't understand that person. I've got to do it. It's just like when I train at the gym and I see Andy for instance, he's lifting all these big massive weights. I'm like, wow, I'm going to have to go at that. I've got to train for that. But then we have a little banter together and it's like, I think just quickly, Andy will appreciate this. I did experience... one of those moments where Andy was doing a deadlift and I think you'd come over with no warmup whatsoever and trying to pick the bar up and I said, Vic, that's never gonna work well, but it's nice. I think you do, there's an element of you've got to practice what you preach every day and get involved with it. But how did you find the Zoom sessions? Was that a bit of an eye-opener for you getting online and doing that? because I'd never done it before, you know, so for me it's like... Are you doing the right thing? So I always ask them afterwards, did you get a good workout from it? I just think that when you're training someone, you have to be with them, John, to do it properly. You can do something on the screen and show them what to do, but unless you're actually there with them, are they balanced right? Are they put their foot right the way? Is it too far forward, too far back? You can't do that with them when they're not there. So they need to be with you to train properly, do you mean? And in a world now that is increasingly becoming like more virtual and connection is happening more and more online. Do you see yourself ever leaning back into that to offer something online coaching or something can't say never, I could never do it, but I wouldn't want to do it. I'd prefer to be with me. more like, if someone rings me up and they want to do a boxing session with me, I'd rather meet them first, a conversation and then they can say, they can gauge whether they're going to be able to work with me or not. And if you can work with me, then we can do something. But I like to meet people. so much better because if you don't know what you're working with, how are you going to make it work? I think there's a new wave, I say new wave, it's been going on for years now, but a new wave of coaches, let's say, not just boxing coaches, but the fitness profession generally, are trying to multiply their opportunities to make money by doing online sessions or pay-as-you-go, self-service courses, stuff like that. Someone could sit in a room and say, I've got an online session booked in. They do the session, they're just sitting in the corner like this John, just sitting there. 20 minutes, I've done my session now, take my packet of crisps now and go off. Do you what mean? So it's a question of accountability as well, isn't it? If you're seeing someone in the flesh. all accountability. Everything you do is accountability. Yeah, it's interesting because I'm just mindful as well that, I mean part of reason I got out of personal training, I was only in my mid-20s, but I just had, I don't know, I wasn't able to... kind of live that lifestyle, I think. I wasn't able to practise what I preached half the time, because I was going out and getting pissed, up to sessions hung over. Put a big You're a man, innit? So you're going to go through that stage. 19 to 25, I kind of had that almost right of passage. And I'm not saying I was turning up to every session I was doing drunk, but definitely wasn't committed to that lifestyle. Whereas now I see it, if I got back into it, It's one part of it is making money from it. It's a tough industry, it's competitive. But I think actually what stands you apart is the fact that it's in the same room, it's a visceral experience. Boxing is, you're not only getting the fitness benefits, the mental health, but it's therapy. Or whatever you're doing. Everyone goes in with goody dolphins when they finish because they feel calm. When I do my bag work, if I've got a pad man, because I haven't got a pad man to work me. But if I had a pad man, I'd love it. But I've got a bag, so I use a bag at the gym if I'm gonna use a bag. And then after I feel that I've done that, I go home and relax. I just feel like I'm floating on the bed, you know mean? yeah, yeah. I feel calm, feel everything's nice. And sometimes you just gotta get out of your system what's going on. So, you know, can't beat things like boxing or anything what you can get into, do know mean? And just release it. I think that's what I've found definitely doing it a little bit later in life now, like approaching 40 and having that experience. you don't think about anything else other than sometimes I hate Vic, why is he making me do this? But you know, in that 30 minutes, that's again, it's so rare to only be focused on one thing nowadays because I can say usually I've got a laptop, a phone, people calling me, a podcast on. Your brain is like time for that when you're training with me because as as you get in there, you're doing your work, you're doing your work for half an hour, you forget about your phone, you forget about all that stuff going around the outside. When you come in the gym, you work hard. and you go back to it when you finished. But when you're training, you've to get on with your training and enjoy your training. That's your time. When I'm training, it's my time. So when I'm doing my class on a Saturday, that's me. So if you're not training right on Saturday, you're going to know. And that's how it works. And that's how I do it. And then they love it because I'm telling the truth. You've got to get on with it. And again, that's a perfect example of practicing what you preach. I went to your Saturday morning class for the first time last weekend. And yeah, mate, To see the effort you are putting in whilst at the same time orchestrating everyone else and making sure that you're holding people accountable for doing it. I think it's fantastic. As long as you try your best, my form is as long as you try your best, that's enough. But don't be hiding because you're not in the back of the bus now. We're going to close, you know what That's it. No, it's great. So you've seen, I mean, you must have seen over the years like the positive impacts on people's mental health from doing boxing or exercise in general. And it must have been the same for you because we're all human, we all have ups and downs. For me, I felt like I had to train. I mean, lost loads of weight when I was in lockdown because I was eating really clean. I come back to gym fitter than what I left. So I probably lost about five kilos. I probably be back on now because I started doing more weight stuff, but I needed to do that side of it because I like to feel strong. I didn't need to. I you can, you can do a really great workout. We've been touching away. Yeah. But you know, he's getting ideas. I mean, I used to feed off everyone. I mean, I watch everybody in the gym. They all do different things like yourself and all the others there. They all do different things. think, I like that. I can nick that and I use that in a class next week. Yeah. It's lovely because everyone does different ways of training. So it's so nice. And there's always something to learn. I mean boxing is like something like because it changes it never stays the same. Yeah, you know, that's the beauty of it all and would you and would you argue that? Throughout the whole time you've been doing it you're still as passionate about it now as you were back in the day You still picking things up and learning as you go. I all the time. Yeah I mean I can sit down and have a conversation with you and we're talking and I'm learning something. you know what I mean? So it's nice. And what do you get the most out of because again you mentioned on on your form and I genuinely believe you get a lot out of training, you know, very good boxers at a certain level. And then people like me that have come into the ring and literally cut. My thing is that when you first come into the ring with me, four weeks later, you've changed. Yeah. So what I've seen you four weeks ago, when you first started, you're not the same person when you now four weeks later in. So for me, it's working. Yeah. So I like that. You know what mean? That's what I like watching. And I guess those changes happen a lot quicker, don't they? When you're, cause you got refining. good fighters and you've bringing someone like an average Joe coming in, getting on the pads for the first time. guess the nice thing is that you tend to see a bit of a difference quite quickly. but I like it because people actually see they can get on with it. And then when I see that getting on and up the game a little bit, which is nice, do you mean? Yeah, I've noticed that from experience. Well, that's what it's about, isn't it? You just keep adding and adding and all of sudden they're doing things they didn't think they could do. And then when you video what they've done when they first started and when they do it now, they think, Wow, that changed, which is lovely. you mean? it's one thing for you to see that. It's another thing to see the recognition of someone else realizing it too. Because that shows the contribution you've made when someone's mind and they can feel that as a positive thing. people say to me, I didn't feel I could do that. And I'm saying you can do it if you want to do it. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. nice. I've benefited from it. I know so many other people have and Yeah, the classes you put on the community, as I say, that you're such an integral part of is it's been an amazing thing, both physically for people and fitness, but it's it's such a mental thing, isn't it? It's mental health is so important and having a kind of hub with someone like you in it, I just think is really important and special because I don't think there's many places like that. Yeah, you can only be the way the trainer is and it means the trainers that way. I mean, I can't change myself, that's how I am. So I'm going to try and get the best out of you and the best out of me. And that's it. And just keep pushing. And what the other thing I just, I feel like Ed needs to start paying me some commission soon. Cause I do talk about wrong on this. That's a joke Ed by the way. But I do talk about wrong on this. But I've trained in a lot of gyms over the years. I used to work in them, then train in them. And I just think the community there and the acceptance there, like anyone can walk into that gym and feel welcome without. feeling like they're being looked at like, who's this coming in? The gym at Rom is not a, it's a sports gym, like for people who athletes who want to train. And if you're not athlete, you will be an athlete. And that's the mindset you should be, mean? We go there to train, not going there for any other reason than train. And it's nice, you know what I mean? That is good. It's a special place. I genuinely think it's a special place. I mean, I was at another gym before and I was there for evolution before. That's how I Ed again. But Ed met me when I was in my 40s, just before my 40s. He said he met me, I was running on a treadmill next to him and I'm like... I don't even remember. It's quite striking to look at as well, you'd expect to remember it. a brief conversation when he was young, he was just like young, didn't he? It's mental that people still remember him now. I meet people now and they talk to me about stuff 20 years ago and I'm like, what? Well, funny enough, I hadn't experienced it. My barber, was chatting to him the other day and he's always interested. So Chris, I'll give Chris a shout out who works at Mengo, but Chris Musket, I'm going to mention that name only because I said I've got Vic from ROM coming on. He said, yeah, I should do pad work with Vic. And he just had, even he, you probably don't remember the name, but he's got these lovely things and lovely experience and just so yeah, every time I saw him, just... an amazing guy to be around and that's lovely that you've left that kind of legacy of whether you remember him or not. that's right. With Chris, I'll probably see his face and yeah, hi there guy. Or if you hear a pad. They're older now, so they look different from when they were with me because they were all like, I was at a party and a load of kids were, well they're adults now, they were talking to me and they said, you showed me when I was like, you know, 12 and I'm like, what? Yeah, they're 24, 25 now and I'm like, right, okay. How do you feel about getting older Vic? What's your relationship with it? I'm alright with it. I'm happy because I'm happy with myself. I could do with bit more money but other than that I'm alright. We all could mate. I know what you mean. I only ask because some people's relationship with it they get to a point where maybe they're approaching 60 and start thinking okay well you know. they're not as focused or they're not as optimistic or their mindset, their outlook is different to yours. I think I know young ones, John, I'm not going to slow down yet. I'm going to make sure they're all right. Yeah, yeah, Doing my best for them and myself. But they keep me young, which is I need it. I need a name. you know mean? We all need names. Whatever it is, you need something to work for or do. Yeah, that's it. I've got a few more questions, Vic, and then we're done. But I just want to touch upon this because My producer Tom, who edits the podcast, had brought this question up. he, he, it's basically Tom's question that I'm stealing for the podcast, but he wanted to, he wanted me to ask your thoughts on, the kind of rise of celebrity boxing. Cause I noticed from the conversations I have, I don't see you get dragged into these conversations. What do you think of it? Do you think it's, I guess one argument could be that it's getting eyes on the sport. Another argument could be it's diluting the kind of impact and the respect for the sport. But what are views? My views are if you're a professional fighter, you're there to make money. If you're an amateur boxer, you're there to, if you're good enough, you'll turn pro. But like celebrity boxing is alright, is you keep it as a happy party thing and then keep the real boxing to boxers because the boxers work so hard, professionals and amateurs. it shouldn't be diluted so much in my eyes because when you see these guys, how much effort and time they put into the game and I feel like they don't get the recognition they should. So it's almost disrespecting the people that are really committed to it. A little bit, I think it is. But if someone wants to have a fight and is trivial things or happy and a joke, it's fine. keep the real boxing for the boxers because it's a lot of time and effort put into it and I don't feel like it should be diluted. Yeah, because let's use like Jake Paul and Tyson as an example. walked away with what? Is it 20 million each? But they're both there. I Tyson's a professional fighter, so for me, it's a good thing that he walked away with his money. Jake Paul is a... one of the, what do you call them on the YouTube, yeah, influencer. So he's an influencer, but like he's not a proper boxer because what he was doing, if in my eyes, I feel that Tyson, if Tyson wants to knock that boy out, he would have knocked him out. Really? Because if you watch him do that pad work, even in the preview to it, someone would be on the floor crumbled up. He didn't even do none of that. you know, it's... I'm not saying he was fixed, but I don't think he was a good example of Tyson. okay. That's it. because I was going to say like Tyson, I would imagine when you're watching boxing and the fighters that meant something to you growing up would have been up there. Yeah, like Marvin Hagler. You can see him taking in nonsense like that. He's great fighter. They're good to call him the Four Kings. Joran, Tyson, sorry, Joran, Marvin Hagler, then you had Sugar A. Leonard. and Tommy Hearns. were the main ones at that time when I was growing up. But there's a couple others. There was a Welsh guy I used to like, Jones, name was, Colin Jones. He was a good fighter. For me, I mean, other people might not like him, but I used to look at fighters and what they did. There was another local fighter, Mark Kalea, a great fighter. People didn't like him, but I liked him because of what he'd done. And it depends on what the fighter does, know mean? Tony Sims is another fighter. How would you describe your boxing style. My style was box fight. Yeah. Yeah. Talk to me about that. What is that? It's more like a, you box, find your moment, then you go in, you find your moment, you're moving and out, find your moment, control the middle of the ring, find your moment. I mean, I could box my back foot, but I'd rather control the middle because it's so much easier. It's less like you're not going to get trapped. Right. Okay. And I think it's the best, you know, if you can stay in the middle, control it, you don't get trapped. Yeah. You just got to use your feet a bit more. A lot of people don't understand that boxing is more about footwork than actually throwing punches. Everyone thinks it's because they are a big bomb, nasty, it doesn't work like that. You have to have your feet in the right place to be able to get your shots off. And in the short time that I've been working with you, I'm fully understanding that now. have these moments where it's nice to hear a big bang on a pad or strike it well. How you going to get it there? So you've got to your feet? Yeah, it's very embarrassing when you're reaching and not hitting the pad. You're taking a step back. Yeah, okay, cool. Yeah, it's always interesting. And like I think Tom's view on it was that we can all watch something like that Jake Paul Tyson fight as a spectacle, but does it really classify boxing? Is it purely just entertainment? it dilute it? It's an entertainment thing. For me, it's the entertainment and they got paid. If I want to watch boxing, like watching amateurs. When I watch amateurs, they go at it, they do their work. and someone gets a decision and hopefully the right person gets the decision and that's it. Okay. Cool. Right, mate. I want to ask two more questions and then we've got the closing traditions on the podcast and then you're finished. Okay. What's been the most rewarding part of coaching for you? When someone boxes and they get the win. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. And then the other thing is when I get someone fit and I don't realise they're fit. Right, okay. That's another thing I like because they always come back and tell me I've got unfit now. I didn't realise how fit I was and I'm like, yeah, well, you just got to keep ticking over. And that's the key to me. You just have to keep going. Yeah. You don't have to be at that high level, wherever you come from, you just keep yourself ticking over. Then you can go back and spike it back up again. And that's what people got to understand. So you take it down and you go back up because you can never be at the top all the time. You've got to understand, you've got to wind yourself back down, bring it back up. Yeah. So getting the win is still, you're still getting it from that. I mean, you've to chase it every day. You've got to want that for the people you're Yeah, because you never go out to lose. You go out to win and do the best you can. I never say to them, do your best. I say, go and win. And that's what I say. I'm going to ask then, how do you help people deal, because you're not going to win all the time. How do you help people deal with a disappointment when they don't? Well, I'll just tell them the truth. We've got to go back and adjust things. That's constructive. Yeah. So we need to go back and adjust things and see. what we're looking at, we didn't get right. You know what mean? Because there's guys out there you can fight and you could never beat them. Right. It's happened to me. I remember when I was a younger school boy and I boxed a guy called Baker and I boxed him and every time I met him, I always found out whatever I did, I couldn't get around him. Right. And he used to really annoy me. Right. But you know, it's just one of them bogeymen you get. Yeah, yeah. One of them fighters, you know. And he wasn't bigger than me. was just stork stocky little fella. But he just said my number. And that was it. That's interesting as a coach though, if you've got a student that you're seeing and there is that sort of bogeyman that they're coming up against all the time, I guess sometimes it's easier to kind of be a bit more impartial and maybe try and come up with a game plan for them to get around it. You do try and get a game plan, but like Tyson said, as soon as you get hit, you don't know what you're going to do. But if you can stick to your game plan, it works. But then you've got some fighters like, you've got fighters who can adjust in the time. So that's what a good call them and does. You get in a call down and he says, right, he's got a minute to say what he needs to say. So you've got a minute to say to your fighter, right, you've got to change this now. You can't do that. Do this instead. Throw this combination, whatever you got to say. Don't fall in. Don't do this, do that. And then you've got one minute. to correct what they're doing to make them a better fighter. And that's it. And you your best. mean? It's kind of a nice crossover there and a nice message to take whether it's boxing or not, but it's being able to adapt. It's having people in your corner that are willing to give you advice that helps you adapt as well. Maybe read a situation a little bit differently. got 30 seconds, John, when you go out in a fight, you've got 30 seconds to work out what you've got to do. the last fight they'd done that, but this fight they're going to do this. And if they know you, they're going to work to what they can do against you and things like that. I asked this question of most people that come in for the podcast too. And I want to take you back to that moment where you gave up the construction stuff and you committed a hundred percent. And it sounds obviously your wife has played an integral part in supporting you to do this. But if you were giving advice to yourself back then, and let's say you were saying to yourself, no, do you know what, I'm not, I'm This is solid work, I know what I'm doing. There's too risky to go and start coaching full time. What advice would you have given yourself then? Go for it quicker, go for a bigger, go for a bigger. Really? Yeah, just go for it. Yeah. Because you haven't got nothing to lose. But I that time I didn't realise that. Yeah. You haven't got nothing to lose. Because you can go back to that if you need to. Yeah. Yeah, so just go for it. Do know what? That is, think, for the most part, when I ask that question, that's the advice that everyone gives. Jump in both feet, don't... don't look back, go try it. Much better to do it and then regret trying it than not. it just feels like it's sometimes the hardest advice to take, but it is the advice. right way to go. Just go for it. You don't have to lose. Nice. Okay. Cool. Right. We've got a game. then we've got the closing tradition. Now you've not listened to any of these podcasts, which I don't take personally, Vic, but it means you're not prepared for these. So this is fun. It's going to be like, I'm holding the pads now. I'm to watch you struggle. So the game is nice and simple. So it's this or that. You've got 10 questions, two choices. You've got to pick one of the choices, no context. So you can't tell me why and you've got to try and pick it quickly. Okay, this or that. Power punches or speed and agility? Speed and agility. Okay. Ali versus Frazier or Tyson versus Holyfield? Ali versus Frazier. Okay. Jake Paul or KSI? Can I say none of them? None of them, yeah you can. I'll let you off. let you off. Considering I've got a box with you on Monday, let you off. Training a beginner or refining a seasoned fighter? Training a beginner. Okay. Old school hip hop or house music? I like both. I've pick one. I've to get you off the fence for that one. I like both. I started off with hip hop. Okay. Back in the day. Yeah. so I like house music now, but I was a Come on, Vic. You've got to me one or the other. I've got to house then because I've a better song at the moment. That's off the fence. I think this one's going be easy. Vinyl or digital? Vinyl. I know that now. Sugar Ray Leonard or Floyd Mayweather? What can't you Marvin Hagler? Okay. Sugar Ray Leonard or Marvin Hagler? Marvin Hagler. Thank you. A small, intimate venue or a big outdoor festival? This is more DJing. Small venue place. Focus on endurance or strength training? Endurance. And last one, Rocky or Creed? John! Is it because you like both of them? No, but it is. When people come to the gym and talk about Rocky, I tell everyone, Rocky's not real. Have you seen the Creed films? Yeah, What was a fairer representation? I know neither of them are real, but you've got to get off the fence again. If you've seen both of them, you can give me... No context, you've got to me an answer. I go crazy. Thank you for giving that a lot of thought. Right, that's the game done. Now the closing tradition, I love it when people don't know this is coming. So the closing tradition is a question that gets sent in each episode by my mum. Okay, so my mum leaves a voice note, I'll play it down the microphone. And then Yeah, we just don't know what's coming down the mic. So we'll to see what happens. Right, okay, let me get the volume. Hi Vic. Imagine a boxing match between Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg. Who do you think would win? Thank you. Elon. Elon. Yeah. It's simple as that. Go on, why is it? Because this has been a big conversation. It's not so much boxing, but it's been I'm going for Elon. And why? He's a bit sharper. You reckon? Yeah. I don't know what you're basing it on, but I don't disagree. I'm basing it on... For what I see... Because I'm not really up with this, but what I see the two of them, he's more out there. Zuckerberg, have you seen him recently? I haven't seen him for ages. He's in shape. He's been doing a load of jujitsu or something. I think I'd be on the other side of that fence, mate, but I mean, you're the pro, so... I'm not a pro. I'm a trainer. You know more than I do. Alright mum, thanks for that. I was wondering where she was going to go with that. That's quite a good one. It's a hard one. It's a very hard one. She's leaning on these rumours and obviously this spat that they had on X about trying to up this UFC fight or something. Okay. Nice. Mate, thank you so much Vic. You're all done. There was nothing to be nervous about. John, thank you for having me. You're welcome. It's an absolute pleasure. Like I said to you earlier, I just want you to leave here knowing that the part you play in that gym and that community, mate, everyone appreciates it. I've appreciated it. Everyone I speak to has. So thank you and long may it continue, Thank you. Thank you, everybody. You're welcome. Thanks for listening to Jobsworth. If you enjoyed this episode, please feel free to give us a follow wherever you listen to your podcasts and while you're there, if you could take two seconds to rate the show, that would be awesome. You can follow Jobsworth on Instagram where you'll get teasers for upcoming episodes, some behind the scenes videos and the occasional bit of career inspiration. And if you'd like to learn more about my day job, then feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn.