Off Script

In todays episode, I have a conversation with actor Sam Strike. Sam shares his journey from growing up in Essex to becoming a successful actor in both the UK and the US. He discusses the pivotal moments that shaped his career, including his early interest in acting, the challenges of navigating education, and the breakthrough roles that defined his path. Sam reflects on his time in EastEnders, the decision to leave for new opportunities, and his experiences in the American film industry.

Takeaways

• Sam's time in EastEnders was both rewarding and challenging.
• Sam pursued opportunities in America after EastEnders.
• He landed the lead role in Leatherface, marking a new chapter.
• Resilience and personal growth are key themes in Sam's journey.
• Career changes can happen unexpectedly, as seen with 'Mindhunter'.
• The atmosphere on dark film sets can be surprisingly light-hearted.
• Working with renowned directors like David Fincher is a career highlight.
• Intense acting experiences can leave lasting emotional impacts.
• Resilience is key in navigating the ups and downs of an acting career.

Sam Strike

IMDb

Keywords

Sam Strike, acting career, EastEnders, MI High, Leatherface, resilience, acting journey, Hollywood, career choices, personal growth, horror films, acting career, resilience, fame, financial stability, legacy, Mindhunter, Dark Tower, acting process, industry challenges, Boys in the Boat.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 1:28 The Early Years: Discovering Acting in Essex
• 4:41 Navigating Education and Career Choices
• 9:54 The Breakthrough: Landing the Role in MI High
• 17:46 Transitioning to EastEnders: A Defining Role
• 22:55 Leaving EastEnders: A Bold Decision for Growth
• 27:20 Pursuing Opportunities in America
• 30:11 Landing the Lead Role in Leatherface
• 32:32 Exploring Genre: From Horror to Drama
• 39:25 Navigating Career Doubts and Resilience
• 44:01 Fame: A Comparative Analysis
• 49:58 The Dark Tower Experience
• 55:32 The Reality of Acting: Financial Stability and Success
• 1:00:51 This or That
• 1:02:10 Lisa's Question
• 1:02:32 Legacy and Impact in Acting

Transcript

0:01

Job's Wrath Season 3 Episode 12 Off Script Welcome to episode 12 of Jobsworth season 3. week I catch up with actor Sam Strike. Sam and I spoke over a video call a couple of months ago now. I was sat in my office not far from where Sam was born in South Endon Sea and he was sat in his home on Long Island, New York. In this episode, we discuss the events that led him there, kicking things off with what it was like growing up in Essex, why Sam got into acting in the first place, and how it felt landing his first role as a key character in EastEnders at the age of 19. We talk about overcoming rejection, developing resilience, the highs and lows of life as a professional actor, and what it's like to see projects you're attached to fail. We also explore the power of saying no to certain opportunities in order to achieve your long-term goals. And if you happen to like director David Fincher, there's a great anecdote about him thrown in for good measure too. Sam has already had a successful career by anyone's standards. He starred in multiple roles in film and TV. His portrayal of Roger Morris in 2023's The Boys in the Boat is outstanding, but at just 30 years of age, he's got a long way to go and a lot more he wants to achieve. So without further ado, let me introduce you to the super talented Sam Strike. The opening question is always when you were younger, what did you want to be when you grew up? once I got into secondary school, that was the first time we did like drama classes. We didn't have it primary school. And at the end of my first drama lesson, my teacher took me to one side and was like, you've got like an aptitude for this. And I think it was the first time I'd been told by a teacher I was good at something. Which at like, however old I was, 11, 12, however old you are in year seven, you know, to hear that for the first time, I was like, that's really cool. But it never really seemed like a realistic thing to do. I guess if you would have asked me growing up, the first time I thought, that might be cool. Yeah, it was acting. Nice. Yeah. I speak to a lot of people, it's the stereotype, particularly guys that growing up, especially in Essex, aspirations of becoming a footballer. when they were lot younger. And then I spoke to a couple of actors as well that kind of knew, at least had a sense they enjoyed it. And then once you get told actually you've got a talent here, that starts to bring on the next level or the next level of pursuit for you. So that's nice. Where did you go to school, Sam? I went to Fort Paul. Okay. Okay. Got you. And did you have a particularly good relationship with your drama teacher at the time? I guess I tend to ask that question to then get a sense of whether it's connected with what you did. Obviously, it very clearly is. But did you have a good relationship with the teachers around you that were sort of telling you, yeah, do know what this could be a route to explore? it was my first, I mean, that was my first ever drama lesson. It was like first week of school kind of thing. So I didn't know her, but like going forward, yeah, absolutely. Right. And like I still speak to her, know, like, yeah, like. the film I did, Boys in the Boat, when it came out in England, my mom wanted to go and see it with a bunch of people and she was there. And you know, like without getting too sentimental or like sound bitey, it was really like, I've been really lucky to experience some like really cool stuff in my life as a result of my career. And it's like, if she hadn't taken me aside that day and been like, pursue this, I absolutely would have a completely different life, 100%. I would never have met my wife, like all the places I've been lucky to travel. it's like, it was really all down to this one person, you know? That's so cool. I've described it a couple of times this season. There's like your sliding doors moment. that hadn't have happened, if you'd gone off in a different route, there's kind of these convergent paths that sort of spark off from there, isn't there? So have you got any idea what you would have done, Sam? If acting, if drama hadn't been signposted as something that you were good at, do you? Have you ever thought about what you might have done if this wasn't the route you'd explored? I really enjoyed English at school, both in my primary and secondary school, and I always did quite well. My mom is a family lawyer. That always interested me. I don't know, I think it's a really tough job. It's really difficult. I think there is a creative element to it, because you're finding solutions. My dad was an editor for like more reality TV. You know, he's like a freelance editor. And I found as an adult, I have an aptitude for all that stuff and I really enjoy it. So I'd like to think I would have gone into something creative still. You know, as you said, like you sort of, come from Essex. Sometimes if you don't have the right mindset can feel like there isn't like a wealth of options available to you and what you can, what you can do. Honestly, I don't know, man, cause I was kind of listless like. In my later teenage years, before I started working as an actor, I was like, I have no idea what I'm going to do. It's such a shared experience that most people going through that kind of age, know, the mid teens into late teens, I think the majority of people are looking for what they're supposed to do. They're either waiting for a sign or trying to go through, kiss a load of frogs and find out something they feel at least. Yeah. Passions and overused word, isn't it? But something that they want to enjoy or they're at least engaged by. I know that was my experience. How old are you Sam? 30. 30. Yeah. So I'm 38 now. And my experience of careers advice was always, you know, I got to college and they said, it's banking. Go up to the city, get a job in finance, get a job in an office in a corporate world. that's, that's pretty much your, or you had a trade. So you'd go and start getting certificates in that way too. So I think it's great that someone in your life just gave you that little bit of, not even validation, but they just identified something in you that led you down this path, which is obviously, yeah, that's kind of- I think it is a bit of validation because even now I'm like, you know, I'll embark on something creative and be like, this sucks, this is terrible. And it just takes that one person going like, this is really good. And you're like, it is really good, isn't it? You know, like it does, it does. Where did you go college? I went to CVIC. I went to CVIC for college. Yeah. I did that too. And then I to stake in the SEC now and I didn't last long either. was, I was pretty academic at secondary school. Did really well at GCSEs, A's and B's across the board. And I got into, I got into, I think most people got into CVIC, you know, I went to CVIC with these A levels that I thought were just a good way to go. And I absolutely flunked it all. Cause first off, I didn't have the discipline to turn up to classes. So all of a sudden you go from a very regimented, structured environment at secondary school and then jump into this world where they're going, don't, yeah, come to classes, don't come to classes. It's up to you. Well, I was always going to take the path of least resistance and not go to class. So my experience at college was very different and that's where I started falling out of that track of thinking, what did I want to do when I grew up? What did you study at CVIC? Literature, history, graphic design. They were my three A level subjects that I ended up doing. AS level, I ended up doing French. But I realised that I'd spent the best part of two years just copying my mate at GCSE French and I don't know how I passed because walking into a French class where the French teacher would not speak English, I was just like, this is an alien language. I've made a big mistake. So that didn't last very long. But what about you? What did you go to college and study? So I went to CVIC and I did English language and literature. film, sociology. I feel like I started with four and then you drop one, but the fourth one was. But yeah, I did that and I was there for a couple of months and I actually started getting auditions at the time. the college were kind of like, either like come and do the courses or like go on your auditions. Like you can't do both. So I said, okay. And I left and I went to, it was Sikh at the time in South and High Street. And I just did a BTEC in drama. was like various ones. can't remember which one it was. But I very quickly ran into the same problem, you know? Like, I think I had like a Hollyoaks audition and I like did the audition in London. And then the way it used to work with Hollyoaks was you'd go and audition in London. And then if you were like into the next round, you and a bunch of guys would all get the train up to Liverpool. Right. And like all the prospective actors. I did the audition in London and I knew I had to go to Liverpool not the next day but the day after and I said to the college I wasn't coming in and they were like either kind of go to the audition and it was like kind of unofficially like don't come back if you go to the audition and I was like... That was your ultimatum. I was like I can either keep going to college with the hope of I'll get auditions and become a working actor or I can go to this audition and pursue trying to become a working actor and I had friends that had been through a similar thing. And I was just like, I'm just going to go for this audition. I didn't get it, but it was definitely like a, all in kind of moment. that kind of your stepping off moment where you think again, it's another sliding doors type moment where you have to make a decision. You're either, as you say, that's the opportunity you're faced with there and you have to step off and really dive in with both feet at that stage. Don't you too? Cause you're turning your back on Education at that point. What did you what did your family think of it too? Like what were your parents saying at the time? I don't Remember to be honest like I didn't I think I didn't really want to go to college anyway Okay, it just felt like that was what you did. So it was kind of my Get out of jail free card for myself. Like well, I've been given this ultimatum and there is another viable option So I'm gonna take that. but that you know, they were always supportive I think like, don't know if it would have gone on for longer or I hadn't like found any work or hadn't started getting any traction. Maybe they would have been like, what are you doing? It's the balance, isn't it? It's the balance between having supportive parents and then they have to be realistic at a stage and give you advice that is going to set you up in a good way, which is okay, look, you've been trying this for a while. Let's, let's maybe take a off the gas. But they were also very like, They let me be independent kind of thing. Not in a way if they didn't care, but they were like, well, if that's what you want to do. Yeah. You know, like they weren't like trying to like push me into like doing anything in particular. And I think also like, even though I wasn't getting any work, I was always getting traction. I was always like coming down to the final three. I guess that gave it some sort of legitimacy as an actual option. Yeah. Yeah. Going on auditions and like getting close, but not getting the job. think that's a really good point to make because I speak to a lot of people where their parents have maybe stepped in and said, this isn't a route. Not as strongly as we're not going to support you if you choose to do this, but they're going to suggest other alternatives to try and give you some ideas, some other outlets that you could try and explore. But think having parents that allow that freedom of expression, give you some room, some bandwidth to go and explore something, obviously, I it's all panned out well. Yeah, and all credit to him, you know, like, so I grew up in South Church, right by South Indy station. Yeah. And my catchment school was it Thorpe Bay at the time. I don't know what it is now. And, you know, like the school had a bit of a reputation at the time. putting me through Thorpe Hall, which is like a private school that was not easy for them. Right. And I think considering that they both sacrificed a lot to put me into this like good school, they were worried about me going to the other school because I was like quite a sensitive kid and I think that's what I was just going to get eaten alive. considering that sacrificed all this to put me through like this very academic education for me to turn around at the end of it and go like, yeah, I'm going to try and do that thing where like at 99 % of any given time you're unemployed, you know, so like credit to them for being like, if that's what you want to do. Yeah, that's brilliant. Did either of them come from that kind of that world, that background. sounds like your dad had sort of a foot in the entertainment space at the very least. Yeah, but it's funny. It's like, it's completely unconnected. I think the only benefit I got from it is like, I remember being like three, my dad always had a video camera out for himself. He just loved recording things and family stuff and taking pictures. So I was like used to having a camera in my face, suppose. But like none of Like I say, my dad, he'd work on stuff like MasterChef, things like that. And he was a freelance editor for most of my childhood. It was never sort of what I do, like scripted narrative kind of stuff. And it's funny, we'll have like arguments. And even when I was younger and I started working, we'd have arguments because he was coming from one world where things are done a certain way and I was coming from another. But it's funny, like he worked for the BBC and at one point I worked for the BBC and he's got both of our... You get like a photo taken on like an ID card and he's got both of our BBC name cards in his kitchen, which is nice. Brilliant. Yeah, that's really nice. So you started on this sort of acting trajectory in year seven. love hearing people that live in the US say year seven, because when you talk about grades and stuff out in the US, I'll just get completely lost. They do not equate to an age whatsoever. like 11 years old, 11, 12 years old. You start this actor in trajectory. When did it start to become a viable path in terms of you start to get auditions, you start to get jobs, you start to feel like it turning into something where, yeah, you're getting paid work out of it. There was an agent in Leoncy. It was like a theatrical school, but also had an agency and it was called Sandra Singers. still there. my sister wanted to audition for like the dance school. And I went with her and I looked like Justin Bieber at the time, know, very like commercial looking. this agent comes up to me and she's like, have ever thought about acting? And I was like, I had, it, you know, I was like 17 at the time and kind of like running around South Church Park, getting into trouble. You know what mean? And she goes, look, if you come to adult drama class on Thursday, I'll put you on my books. I was like a client, I'll send you out on auditions. So was really lucky. And I'd seldom went to the drama class. Probably like yourself for college. I was just like, don't want to do this on Thursday. But yeah, I started going out on auditions and I auditioned for a good like two and a half years before I got my first job. And when I did get my first job, I had said to myself, I'm like, this is the last thing I go out on. This is the last thing I audition for. How serious were you about that? hear that. I hear a lot of similar sounding stories from people that kind of the, all hinged on that last audition or that last decision they were waiting on and they were very much ready to throw in the towel. So how serious, looking back on it, how serious do you remember being at 19, like I'm done. So I was like, yeah, I was getting like three auditions a year and maybe I'm getting the timeframes wrong, but I was 18 when this happened. So maybe I was like 16 when I met this agent. But there was this kids TV show that I was aware of called MI High and it was like a spy show. I got sent, I got asked to self tape, which was unheard of at the time, which you record your own audition. It's like commonplace now. That's all you do. But back then it was really... Is that post COVID, the whole self tape thing became more of a, more commonplace? Especially post COVID, but even before then, like if I'm in England and it's an American thing and they want you to tape. You know, like it became more of a thing. sense. Yeah, it was a self tape because they were casting it in Scotland and I did the tape and then my agent called me and was like, they want you to go to Edinburgh to do this final audition. And I was like, I had no money at all. And it was like really expensive to get the train to Edinburgh. And I'm like, all right, last hurrah. I'll get myself up to Edinburgh and do this final audition. And it was me and one other guy who looked really similarly to me. And he, but he was a little bit younger than I was. And I think I got it because of like labor laws. Rob was like 18 at the time. And it was like, we can work this guy and there's no problems. This other kid's only 17. It's going to make our shooting schedule really difficult. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Interesting. It was awesome. Like, yeah. And what was the reality like? Cause you've got this expectation of what your first sort of paid job at that level would, would feel like. I know we're taking you back. 12 or so years now, Sam, but what was it like in reality? Did it live up to the expectations that you'd had? I was so lucky because it was one of the leads of the show and it was, can't remember how many episodes it was in a season, but I got to do fight sequences, green screen, all of this stuff that is not typical to do on your first job. The responsibility of being a main character across a number of episodes, which is like, It's crazy to me that that was the first thing I got to do. And I remember I was like really delusional and I came out of the first season like, I'm not working now. This is going to be easy. And then I didn't work for like a year. Right. Until the second season. Yeah. And I mean, I snuck in one little job right before I started the second season, which was more grown up. It was like a Comedy Central thing. And so it's like, I got to have all this fun doing fight sequences and all this kind of stuff on this kid's show. But then I got to go and do this Comedy Central thing where I was like, but this is actual grown up stuff. Yeah. That's awesome. I think it's nice as well that you could, as you say, fortunate slash potentially little bit of luck there as well that you learn something where you do get that opportunity to go and have those experiences. But it sounds great. So I'm going to talk to you about Eastenders now, Sam, because I'm assuming if it's like not working for a year or so off the back of, am I high? And then Was Eastenders your next job? Well, so I did that first season of MI High. thought this is going to be easy now. I'm going to be a working actor. It didn't really work. Did the second season of MI High. Came off of it and was like, remember what this was like last time? It weren't easy. My first audition after that was Eastenders. And I was like, just do this for free. Like, you're not going to get it. And the character was one way on the page and I myself, like a lot of other actors my age at the time, was just obsessed with Tom Hardy. Because I'm going to do a Tom Hardy impression. It's not what they're asking for, but that's what I feel like doing. And I went in and I read it once and the casting director was like, you need to think about whether you are interested in this because... You know, she kind of said in the room, like, you're going to be a contender for this. the buying signals, the buying signs are there, aren't they, when they're asking questions like that, for sure. It doesn't happen like often. And I did it. And then I got called back the next week to meet with the exec producer, Dom Trebill-Collins, who had just taken over the show and was really passionate about it and a really smart guy. They go, you're going to have a sister, like this character has a sister in the show. So we want you to chemistry read with her. with some girls to play the sister. And I read with three girls and on the page they kind of wanted like that sort of Camden rocker type for the sister. And I read with three girls that were very much like that. And then the last girl they saw was Maddie Hill and she wasn't that. She was more kind of like, she had more kind of like a street thing going on and we read and we just clicked. in the audition scene, the characters are painting the Queen Vic and I get on the train. I'm on my way home and I'm reading the Metro and then it's like Danny Dyer and Kelly Bright to join EastEnders as new owners of the Queen Vic and I'm like, shit, like I wonder if we were auditioning to play their kids. I texted the girl that I'd just read with to play my sister because we hit it off. Yeah. I think we just auditioned to play like Danny Dyer and Kelly Bright's kids. And then as soon as I sent the text, my phone rang. My agent was like, you've been offered the role. Wow. And for me at the time, coming from Southend, I was younger. And it was to play like a gay character on a big TV show. now maybe people wouldn't even give it a second thought. But back then it was like it didn't it didn't bother me at all. But it was a question people were asking. And I remember like I got off the train at South End and I was meeting my friend at Odeon and I was like, look, man, I just got offered a part in EastEnders to play a gay character. And Danny Dyer is going to play my dad. he was like. You know, and I said I wanted to do it. But there's also the stigma around these tenders where like at the time it was like the last thing you'd ever do in your career in terms of you do it and then like you were done after that. is what I'm to ask you about because obviously there are some long serving actors on that program decades and decades. I think they're about to celebrate their 40th anniversary as well. It's been going for a long time and there are some like Eastenders lifers that been on it. I was going to ask, once you get a job like that, yes, the considerations about the character are a huge part. And definitely around that time, I'd like to think the world has progressed a lot now. So maybe the same considerations for people getting cast at 18, 19 years old, it wouldn't be such a big hurdle to potentially overcome. But definitely, when you're auditioning for Eastenders, that, at the time, is that your idea of success? Was there a part of you that thought, I've made it? But that is not. No, I went through all of the like costume fittings and makeup, met Danny and Kelly and like we were all set to go. But I like I really felt that like this could be the last thing I do. OK, like because it was a lot of the time. And and I remember trying to call my agent at like 2am the night before I was due to start. I was like, don't want to do it. don't want to do it. Wow. Panicking. But like it was it's such a great place to learn because the volume of work is crazy. You know, like you're learning so much dialogue every day, shooting so many scenes a day. And some of the actors that I work with on EastEnders are like the best actors I've ever worked with in my career. Not just technically, I mean, like really talented people. don't know. Like when that stigma was around about EastEnders, I was like, this is so unjust because some of these people are just phenomenal. absolutely phenomenal. Yeah, it was a, I did it a year in the end. Yeah. It's amazing. And what a character to take on. What a storyline to take on. And especially at that time, as we said, like, and then, and then playing Danny Dyer's son, who's like your typical, your stereotypical hard man. Yeah. And putting yourself through that, that must've been a great learning experience and a learning curve for you too. Well, how did that come to an end? How did the I'm not a massive EastEnders fan, Sam, so apologies. don't necessarily know your character arc all the way through, how did that all come to a close EastEnders? Was it your choice, their choice? No, it was me. It was funny. I always kind of knew I wanted to do a year. Yeah. Because I was like, that's my best shot at getting out and doing other things. Not getting... I don't say stuck in a negative way, but not getting stuck there. You've got a higher chance, haven't you, of staying if you're over a year or so. It's great. You've got the money's good and it's regular, but I was young and not particularly smart about things. You get really famous really quickly, and I didn't handle that particularly well. I got really anxious. And then I was just on a crazy schedule. Anybody in their right mind would have moved up to near where the studio is, but I stayed in Southend. So I was doing two and a half hours there and two and a half hours back, like six days a week. Where was it? Moreham Wood? Moreham Wood, yeah. And a lot of the time that meant like getting on the train at 5am and then getting home at like 11 and then you want time to unwind and then you end up sleeping three hours, four hours and that compounds over time. And my anxiety got really bad. I was actually going up to the woman that... played my mom in the show, Kelly, she was getting married in Cornwall and I was in the car on the way to Cornwall with her and my, cause I was going to help her set up for a wedding and my agent called me and was like, your contracts up for renewal. But I knew the boss of the show was going to be at this wedding. Right. I was playing him as a young man. He'd based this family on his family and I was playing, my character was based on him. And I said to my agent, I like, I'm not going to renew, knowing that I was going to see Dom at the wedding. You know, me and Dom had a conversation about it and he's like, he was really respectful about it. and he understood and we kind of confirmed when the exit date was going to be and stuff like that. so yeah, it was kind of like, I was like, I did a year and I was like, and people were saying like, are you crazy? Like you're like a working actor. You've got consistent ink. I'd never earned that much money in my life. And I probably never would have really. I was like, would wanted to like give America a go. That was always like the dream. And I was like, I would rather like try and fail horribly than not try and like never know and then end up 50. Like, man, I wish I would have at least known that I failed. There's loads, I'm sure there's a cliche that I could pull out of the air somewhere that is all around that. It's better to have tried and failed than not have tried at all. There go, I've literally just done it. it's, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of times in my life where I feel like I've done the same thing, a very different scale, but yeah, you want to at least know that you've tried it. And like we say, hindsight is a wonderful thing, isn't it? It's worked for you, it's paid off. Now know the reality of it. very different as a working actor. It's not you hit a certain level and then it's back to back projects all the time, which we'll talk about in a second. If anyone's listening to this and not watching it, Sam is shaking his head vigorously there too. So yeah, it's not as quote easy once you've hit a certain level. Talk to me then, America was something you always wanted to do, the aspiration was there. When do you make the decision to are you out there permanently now Sam? I've been out here for like 10 years. Okay. Okay. So yeah, round about that time. So you left EastEnders and then was that with that conscious decision, I'm going to get out to the States. No, I came off, I did like a like a typical British gangster movie. Okay. And I'd always wanted to do one to be honest. And I guess I had some value from EastEnders for that kind of like demographic and market. So I did that. And then like, Nothing. couldn't I couldn't get an audition. You know, like it was tough. Does regret start to sit in slightly there Sam? Do you start? The decision it was worried, but it wasn't okay regret. Maybe I was like I mean, I know I was like arrogant when I was when I was younger But I was like I think if I wanted to go back to East End as I could okay But it didn't sound it didn't I wasn't entertaining that as an option I couldn't get an audition and months and months went by and then They were casting this like Texas Chainsaw Massacre movie and I went in and auditioned for it and I thought I bombed it. I thought that was my shot, like it's an American thing, I bombed this. And a couple of days later my agent calls me and was like, they want you to go in again. And it was to play the lead character, it was to play like Leatherface. And I was like, okay cool. And I went in again and my agent called me and he said, they're not gonna know for a couple of weeks. But then they called me like two days later, like you got it. And there's this thing where, they shoot at the time they were shooting a lot of American movies at this studio in Bulgaria and then shoot like the expendables and all those kinds of movies there. So it was a really great way for like British actors to get into American films without all of the, cause it's getting a visa for America is hard, man. You know, I it was like a good way to like reach into that. And, I filmed that and the woman that played my mom, Lily Taylor is this fantastic actress. She called her, unbeknownst to me, called her managers in New York and were like, I'm working with this kid, I think he's really good. And I get like a phone call out of the blue one day, it's like, we're Lily Taylor's managers and she thinks that we should meet with you, you wanna come to New York. So I went to New York and I met with them and like, was like, there's like, now this is legitimate. There's like a team of people out here that wanna. So I got my visa for the States, my first visa. And again, I got to the States and I didn't work for like two, maybe a year and a half coming close, but like never quite doing it. My managers have always been very supportive, but they were like, maybe think about going back to England and building more there that we can use here. And just as those conversations were happening, like I got my first job out here. what, take me back then, take yourself back to that time where you get the call. to say that you've landed that lead role in that Leatherface film. Because it's, what does that feel like? It was like a bit of a relief. Right, okay. And also, like, there is this cliche, it's like, I want to go to America. And to sort of get, I mean, it wasn't a Scorsese film, but to get that, again, was that little nudge towards like, this is possible, like they see it. Maybe other people will. The next level of validation almost. Yeah. So it's like, okay, I need to, I need to keep doing this because each, each bit is progress. Each bit is that kind of elevation along, that It's even like technical things like I'd audition for a couple of like American things prior to that. And it's like the accent I found difficult and all that kind of thing. And for some reason with this, it just worked out. Like, it all came together. Like, I'll be really honest with you. I've not seen. the film. I've seen clips of it in preparing for this conversation with you and I get, I'm shit scared of horror films anyway. So I remember watching the original Texas transfer massacre when I was younger and having nightmares for like weeks. And I was looking back for your credits and what you've been in. And there does seem to be like, I'm not broad brushing or generalising here, but you've been in some horror stuff. I was wondering if before Boys in the Boat, was much stuff that you'd done where you weren't covered in blood at some point. Did you find that you were pigeonholed? I don't know what you went on to do after Leatherface, but did you find there was a danger or a risk of getting pigeonholed in that kind of genre in making those kind of first steps in the States? No, because I think in EastEnders, played such a good guy. And I was like, I want to do stuff that's darker, like every actor says. And that was my way of doing it. So even if it wasn't horror that I was doing, it was like criminals or villains. And I think the thing is with horror, horror is like a really universal genre. Like comedy is cultural. Like the sense of humor in Japan isn't the same as it is in Serbia. You know what I It's cultural. But horror, fear is a universal feeling. So the thing with that is horror films make money and you don't need a star because the genre in itself makes money. So that's when you get like, you can give unknown actors a shot. And I think that's probably why I did a lot of horror because the finance people are like, we know this is going to make a certain amount of money just because of the genre. You find a lot of actors get their start. Like Matthew McGonaghey was in... some obscure Texas chainsaw film at the start of his career. There was a few people that they'd get their start that way. Interesting. Yeah, I never had that insight before. And it was just, I was looking at some of the credits and the bits that you'd been in and the departure from that character you play in EastEnders to what you then went on to when you start your time out in the States, like the role in Mindhunter, the role in Monster Party. These are like dark. complicated characters that you are taking on. And I wonder again, at that point in your career, do you ever use the phrase, I've made it? No, because you always feel like no matter how big the job is that you've just come off of, you're like, well, I'm unemployed now. Minehunter was like, was, that like changed my career. And it was only one episode that I did. But that was like an amazing thing for me. Even to this day, I'll go onto a set and someone will be like, mine aren't on. That's the thing that follows me around. Talk to me about the process. I don't want to make this a conversation too much about the process of acting or getting into that mindset of character, but just because by dint of the characters that you've played, how do you go into something like that? Especially when you're playing someone that's existed as well. That's interesting approach. I don't know man, I find that like the most dark stuff I do, the sets are normally really light. Okay. You know, it's just like, it's funny. Yeah. Cause you know, if you're like, running around with a chainsaw covered in blood or whatever, there's like 60 crew members standing around eating sandwiches and smoking cigarettes in between takes and it's like a light hearted thing. But Minehunter was like a really specific. That was like a typical for me, like a typical Hollywood moment where it's like something out of a book that had happened. I was in England visiting family and I got asked to tape for it and I taped and they said, okay, can you send another tape with some notes? So I take with my friend who's an actor from Leon C, Thomas Coombs. I know of Thomas Coombs. He's just finished a run of plays in London as well, hasn't he? Yeah, I follow him on Instagram. So I know of him. Tom's blinding. Tom's like a real talent. And I did that and they were like, it's not going any further. And I said, okay. And then like three days later, they go, okay, here's like 15 pages. Can you tape it in like two hours? So I only learned half of it and I sent it and my manager's like, I've asked for 15 pages. I'm like, I'm going to do seven well instead of 15 mediocre. And I was around my friend's house and I get the call. It's like, you got mine Hunter. You have to be at Heathrow Airport in four hours, they're gonna fly you to Pittsburgh and David Fincher's directing your scene. And for me, like, Zodiac, Fight Club, Social Network, like, David Fincher is one of the kings of directors. was like, my God, this is amazing. I get to Pittsburgh and they go, okay, you need to go for a meeting with him in his office and the two leads of the show because they want to rehearse the scene. And like, I'm buzzing the door and it's not coming. it's not working. And they gave me his number just in case. I'm like, I've got to be the deck of it calls him. I call him the highest salmon outside and he comes downstairs and he's so this guy's so intelligent and so talented and he opens the door and he's like, hey Sam, thanks for coming and doing this. And I'm like, shut the fuck up. Like, you kidding me? know, proper pinch me moment. Yeah. And I go in and with the leads, Jonathan Groff and Holt McCallany and they were super, super nice. And we drilled the scene, but as we're doing it, David Finch is rewriting everything. And we're to start shooting the next day and the volume was already a lot and it was all changing. And he has this aptitude for like, he knows exactly how things should sound. So you're not just having to remember all the new lines, you're remembering how he wants them said, you know, and we ended up spending like five or six days in a in a prison cell, me and the two other actors just doing these two scenes over and over and over. He's famous for this. I've heard, I've heard. Hundreds of takes. And to his credit, he never lost his temper. he it's not this tyrannical thing. It's like he just comes and he's like, no, say it like this. And you're like, you can't argue because it's way better than anything you've got. He's like the best actor I've ever met. Really? I was so emotionally like kind of broken by the time it was over. I remember like leaving Pittsburgh and saying to my agents, I don't want audition for like two weeks. I just need to like lay in a hole. And then I did Monster Party shortly after my agents call me and they're like, you have to do dubbing for Mindhunter. And I'm like, can't. Like I'm in the middle of movie. Just the dubbing is going to break me. It was such an intense experience. but like, I know you've got to go and do it. So I go and do it and Fincher was there in the room, which was like really, he didn't need to be there. And we did the dubbing and it was in Warner Brothers and I lived in West Hollywood, which was a good sort of half hour, 40 minute drive. And I was flat broke and he goes, how are you getting home? And I was like, honestly, man, I'm not sure. And he goes, I'll give you a ride. And he gives me a ride back to West Hollywood and I'm a real camera nerd. like, I'm into the technical stuff and he's very, very well educated in that. I'm asking him all of these questions and his opinions on things and he drops me off outside where I was living. And I guess how come you don't have any money? And I got out and I something will come up and he drops me off outside the house and he's like Sam. I'm like, yeah. And he goes, something will come up. And he pulls away in his Tesla. And I was like, that whole experience was the most like Hollywood crazy dream. You know, it was. And I was convinced I'd done a horrible job in it. And then it came out and I got offered like a TV series, like the next day. was crazy. Man is mad. Like I'm putting myself in your shoes going through, you you take these leaps of faith, you, you are filled with doubt. have to, you're having your resilience tested daily, you know, whether that's auditions and being told no, or being told to wait and then the phone not ringing. And then you have a moment like that. It's just solidifying, isn't it? And again, validation. Like again, it's the other, it's the next sign that, you know, just stick it out. Something's going to come of it. Especially coming from someone like him. I just think like he's so smart and so knows what he's doing. And I'm like, the fact that this guy thinks I could be a part of this is validating. But to your point, like the week before I got the audition for Minehunter, I was like sitting in my mom's kitchen, like, can't keep doing this. Like, this is killing me. Like, nothing's happening. And she was like, there's always something around the corner. And I'm like, shut up, you don't want me talking about it. You know, was so right. How do you deal with the doubt that comes between jobs? Because you say like, you know, there are spaces between aren't they? You're not always going to have your next project lined up. Do you, do you feel like you're any better now than you were a few years back between work and, and having that self belief, that confidence? I think honestly, like the way you deal with it, is that like, I'm not qualified to do anything else. So it's kind of like, this is what you do. What's the fallback? Yeah, that's the thing. There is not no fallback. This is what you do. And even though I've been doing it for a number of years and I've always made a living out of it and like a good living out of it, I still feel like, is this what I am as a, like, is this my, can I be like, I'm an actor? You know? Do you feel like you're there yet? No. The weird thing is, I don't... As I've grown up, I've realized I don't... It's not that acting that I love. It's like I like being on a film set. Like, I just enjoy, like, everyone's jobs. I find really interesting. And there's, a camaraderie that is, like, anything I've ever experienced. Acting is just the way that I'm allowed to be there. Yeah. It's the enabler for you to be in that environment, to be in that world. It's a really great perspective. And again, it'd be really insightful for a lot of people listening to this that see what you've been in, that see the life you're living, that see the credits and the films and the actors you're acting alongside, that someone like yourself is still not comfortable with that label and saying, yeah, this is me, I'm set. Well, it's funny, like, I don't want to speak for people, so I won't name names, but I've been like... very fortunate to work with some very famous people. And I always ask them, I'm like, do you even like doing this? And the amount of them that go, it's like they don't hate it, but it's like, they're not like, I love acting with all of my being, know, they're just kind of like, yeah, you know. But some people are like, you know, I really do love it. But there's some like heavy hitters that are like, you know. They can't believe it. Yeah, brilliant. And they mean it too. And it's not in like an ungrateful way or anything. Like one actor I worked with in particular, really famous now, but the fame came later for him. So he's got like a balanced perspective on life. Yeah. And I said, do you you like really enjoy this? And he goes, well, you know, like, I think really like his passion is, you know, it could be like It's the stuff that he gets to do on a Saturday at home that the money from acting affords him the time to be able to do. That's what I love, you know? And I think, because this whole podcast is much more about talking to people about their experience with work and some of the people that enjoy their job the most derive exactly that from it. It enables them to do the stuff outside of work. Yeah. And they can derive love and engagement out of that from their job. They don't necessarily have to love. the job itself. They just love what it enables them to do. I think that's a really important reminder for anyone. Whether you're interested in Sam's work or not, I really like that message. think that's really good. Personal interest perspective, what's the difference between kind of fame, and I'm using air quotes to describe this, but fame in the UK. So you were on one of the most recognised soaps in the UK when you were on EastEnders. And I'm sure, as you mentioned, you start to get recognised. And there's a process behind that, isn't it? And you can going to be affected in different ways. But what's fame like in the UK? And what's the sort of fame culture in the US? How do they differ? How are you coping with fame? Is that even a label you're comfortable with or word you're comfortable with? The only time I've ever had fame was EastEnders. That's like the only time. it's acute. I remember being warned by some of the other cast around my age that had been on the show for a minute. They were like, You'll go to bed the night before your episode comes out and when it comes out, you won't be able to walk down the street. And it was that. Like it really, really was that. it was a really like weird thing. And for my friends that I grew up with from Southend, you know, we'd like go out, we'd like go down to lakeside or whatever, and they'd be like, what the fuck is going on? Yeah. It was a really strange thing, but I don't really, yeah, I'm not famous remotely in the, in the, in the U S like even like boys in the boat, like a lot of people went and saw it here, but it's like, I don't look the same as I did in the movie. it's just not the... I can't remember the exact way they described it to me, but one of the cast on EastEnders said the difference between us and like movie stars, the reason that we're so recognizable is like you go to a supermarket and like you're looking for saffron. It's like this rare ingredient that you rarely ever use. They're movie stars. They're really expensive. You see them once a year. He's like, we're Walker's crisps. people see us, know exactly what that is, like immediately. And I'm like, that's so true. Yeah. an analogy. been other fans that have been on the show that have gone on to have great success. And they're like, I'm still not as famous as I was on EastEnders. Really? It's such a cultural thing though, isn't it? EastEnders in the UK though. Yeah. So I get why it runs so deep and it's been around for so long and it's so consistent. It's there, the frequency is so high. So yeah, you're literally in people's living rooms with them a few nights a week. And that, okay, I can understand the difference there. One of the things I think about when you think about acting as a profession is comparison. Are you guilty of comparing your career or the jobs you're taking on with your peers, with other people you see around you, potentially even people that came up at the same time as you? Are you ever looking at people's career and thinking, okay, you're doing all right, you're guilty of that. And how does that kind of have an effect on you? Well, there was... I had like a turning point. An actor that I'd worked with this is a while ago that I didn't get on particularly well with. I'd been penciled for this like big movie, small part in a big movie. And I found out that I hadn't got it because this other actor had gotten it. And I was like, if I take this bitterly now, it's going to ruin me. And I legitimately like I felt myself go and I said to him, I was like, dude, that's awesome. Like, congratulations. And I meant it. And I think it was a self-preservation thing, but the feeling was real. It was like organic. And now I find that I'm kind of like, like there'll be actors that I know I'm competing with quite consistently, like the same names that come up. And I've never met any of them, but I feel like if I did, I'll be like, it's really good to meet you, man. Like I respect them. I'm like, I'm like, okay, like that's who I'm up against. Like, and dude, like you wouldn't believe how often. It's like, it's you and this guy. It's between you and this guy. All the time. me and another act in particular, we've even played the same part in two different iterations of the same TV show. Like really weird stuff. Right. Okay. But I don't feel like like a jealousy or like a why don't I have that or because it's so random, Like the difference between you getting the role and them getting the role is that like you look too much like the kid that bullied him in school. So they're going to go with the other guy. There's so many things that go into it. It's like the ones that you're meant to get, you get and the ones you don't, you don't. There's so many variables that it's like, I never take it personally ever. I think that's a really good... skill to have had and it sounds like it's not one that you've had to develop. I can imagine there are some people out there in your profession that look over the garden fence all the time and thinking, why am I not getting that job? there is a bit of, I don't know, envy creeps in and there's a bit of resentment that can creep into. I guess what is already a very hard world to operate in and make a living in becomes even harder when you've got that lens that you're looking at stuff through. But it sounds like you've never been I think the only version of it that I do have is if there's like, I'll see a project that's been announced or coming out and I'll be like, why didn't I get a shot of that? But again, that can come down to just casting being like, she's not right for it. It's like, it's not what we have in mind for it. And for all the times that that happens, I'll also get auditions where I'm like, why are they sending me this? I'm not right for this at all. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Okay. I've got, this is where I am going to... Get a bit super fan, Sam, and I'm gutted and I feel like you're about to confirm this for me and I'll be even more gutted when I hear it from you. Again, preparing for this yesterday, you were cast as Roland in the Dark Tower adaptation. That is, the Dark Tower books are my favourite series of books that I've ever read to this day. I'm in love with them. So to hear you being cast as Roland, I was like, shit. And then I text your cousin, Tom, who's facilitated this introduction and he said, I think... think that's gone. I think that's on the back burner now. So is that true? that get, this is purely self-serving that I'm asking this question. We shot it. We shot the pilot. Wow. Yeah, no, it was really cool, man. I got sent the audition and my agent were like, they were like, you're too old for this. And I was like, nah, I just spent the winter playing Red Dead Redemption and I really wanted to play cowboy. And I was like, no, no, no, no, I'm going to go in for this. And I had no business going in for it. I think there's certain things required of being like the lead of a show like that. I was like super out of shape. Like my confidence shouldn't have been as high as it was. I went in and then I was going to LA the next day just because I was going back to LA and I was at Heathrow and they were like, the showrunner wants to meet you and he's in LA off the back of my audition in London. And I went in and I met him and then I did another tape. in LA and then they go, they want you to fly back to London and screen test with potential love interests. And the way that it works when you're screen testing for television is you sign your contract before you get a part. Right. Because the idea behind that is you agree to the terms so that when the studio cast you, the actor doesn't turn around and go, well, I want a million dollars per episode because I know you want me. Understood. But typically you do a screen test and it's a yes or a no. And that's it. And I really wanted this and I did the screen test and I didn't hear anything. I think that had a week to tell me before my contract expired and nothing, nothing, nothing. And then the day before it was due to expire, they were like, the showrunner wants you in again. The studio can't see it, but the showrunner really believes in you for it. So he just wants to like workshop a bunch of stuff on camera, workshop, workshop, workshop, did it, got the role, which was awesome. Then they got like, I was like, probably like, and I'm talking in American metrics, I was like, probably like 25 pounds too heavy for it. And I knew that, you know, like, like if Captain America had like a giant pot belly, you'd be like, there's something like, there's just realities, man, you know, and I've never been like a fitness freak or whatever. So I like lost lots of weight really quickly. I was taking it really seriously. And we went out to Croatia to film it and we were there for a while. We did like a month of cowboy camp. me and some of the other cast, which was awesome. And then we shot for like six weeks. And it was kind of this mix of it was like there's I think the fourth book is The Wizard and the Glass and it follows Rowland is like a younger guy. But he's 14 in it. They were kind of trying to do this happy medium where he was more like 18, 19. And you you you see him grow into because he's quite he's he ends up becoming quite like a rough guy. I mean, like in the books, he's like the first book, The Gunslinger, and this is where I was thinking when you were saying you're too old for it, was like, wait a minute, where does this start? But yeah, in The Gunslinger, he's like a grizzled veteran cowboy going through this wasteland. Yeah, now you're talking about that book that is kind of like him going through the whole process, the rites of passage, relationships with his family as well, like all of these things are explored in there. And I know that we were really going to go there. Like I know the first season was going to be He's young, he's got his friends around him. It's kind of this fun adventure. But by the end of it, a lot of people were going to have died and he was going to have become this like very jaded, angry, kind of scary character. And I know in season two, there were things in the books that were really graphic. I'm asking the showrunner, I'm like, are we going there? He goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, we're going there. It's going to be. He had the whole thing mapped out. had like eight seasons mapped out. He had spin-off shows mapped out. He'd worked really hard on it. Yeah, it was like, it was a really cool experience for me and definitely the biggest thing I'd done up to date. But we found out, we finished it in like the May and we found out in the November, I think, that Amazon hadn't picked it up to series. It was a strange experience. I was going to say, because that's a great example of where resilience has to kick in, isn't it? Because you go through that process, know, the audition process is one thing, the month of Cowboy Camp is another, the six weeks of filming, the camaraderie you build between cast members, the excitement about this project coming out, like that's got to test you, hasn't it, when you hear a few months down the line that it's not getting picked up. I mean, you know, there's always that possibility that it's not going to get picked up, but you're like, it's a Stephen King thing, you know, like, the IP is there, isn't it? The strength behind it, you'd expect it. You really would have thought it was going to get picked up. like candidly man, too, it's like financially, it would have been crazy for me. You there was that aspect too, because, know, I don't come from like extreme wealth. So I'm always worried about money. So it would have been like, wow, there's doors that will open to me if this goes. Even if it did one season, I'm like, it could change my life forever. Yeah. And then you kind of hear the no and you're like, okay, that's gone. It's back to square one. You know, it's not like I think some careers, there's like maybe a linear progression where you're like, I work really hard and I'll get promoted and then that's that salary and I'll get promoted. This was like going from like, okay, money to really good money where things really would have changed and That is a reality. I knew some people in LA, where it's like their parents were paying for their apartment or whatever. So even if they didn't get the job, I knew things were okay. And this was, I know my life could have changed in a lot of ways. So when you get the call that it's not happening, you do have to dig deep to not get defeated by it. Yeah. I can't imagine. what that scenario feels like and how I would react to that. But just seeing where you are now and then seeing what you've gone on to do, obviously, yeah, you've got that resilience and it seems like it's something you've got to work on. I think you're a human being at the end of the day, that feeling of building, hyping something up, building something up to then know it's not coming off and linked to that is security. That's another thing, isn't it, that comes with the money? wasn't even like I wanted to be a baller. was like, I just like, I will have security. And if I had a kid like I know I could, because as an actor, you're always, you know, worrying about where the next paycheck's coming from. And that makes real life stuff really, really hard. Yeah. You know, how could I bring another life into this world where I'm like, hope I get a job soon. It's like, I don't know. You know, was, yeah, it wasn't that I wanted to be rich. It was just like, it would just be something, one less thing to worry about. Yeah. It was peace of mind. That's all. That's all it was, you know? Yeah. No, I get it completely. I was speaking to someone else recently, who's a well-known British actor. And he was saying, again, this is the perception outside looking in. He said to me, this job that he had allowed him to get a house. Yeah. And I just, and you could see in his face that that was like such a big achievement that as a professional actor, he had found a job that allowed him to get on the property ladder in the UK. And I just, it really gave me that level of insight. because I never knew that that was the kind of benchmark. It's the same as everyone else, isn't it? Like what you want to do, you want to get on the property ladder. But I just thought given his career today, he'd be there. And hearing that was just like really, really an eye opener. Yeah, cheers for going into that. It's not supposed to be a therapy session, Sam, but I like to, and I like to talk about how things test you and how you overcome those too. yeah, I think that's a really good example. Plus the fact that I'm just a massive fan of those books and I was gutted, absolutely gutted, that when Tom texted me back and said, yeah, I don't think that came off in the end. Who knows? As you get older, it's just the more grizzled veteran character that you're to go and play, Sam. So you're okay. You're still in the frame for it. You're all right. Nice. All right. We're nearly done. We're on the final stretch now. A couple more questions and then we'll get into the closing tradition. Has your definition of success changed as your career has progressed? Yeah, and it's probably like, it sounds somewhat negative, but I think when you're like 18, 19, 20, and you've got all of that gazump, you're like, I'm going to be a movie star, I want to be a movie star. And then now it's kind of just like, I would just like to earn enough money to like live the life that I want to live. And to me, that would be success. Yeah, you know, like nothing to do with fame, not even the caliber of stuff I did, like, it'd be great if it was high caliber stuff, but it's like, it would be nice to earn a living doing something you don't hate doing. be able to afford the things that you need. And that for me, if I had that, I'd be like, I've made it. That's success. Yeah, nice. That's good. I think I think it's natural, isn't it, for that? that definition, even if you think about what success looks like in your early twenties, that definition has to evolve through life experience, through all the things changing around you. And what have you got projects in the pipeline now, Sam? Where do we find you in your career? Are you between work at the minute? we in one of those moments where you are sat going, I want the phone to ring? I absolutely am, man. I mean, it's been a really difficult few years in general for the industry. We had like COVID. which killed things and then last year we had the strike. Yep. And I was lucky enough to be working as the strike was happening because I'd started on the project and the way the rules were they were going to let us finish it. weren't, you know, so I did that. And then now there's been this sort of complete shutdown. You know, there's very few, the streaming bubble seems to have burst. There's very few things getting made. No one really know, like I think studios don't really know what people want to watch. So they're like reeling back on the, the studios were like just making stuff, TV show, TV show, TV show. And I don't think the model ended up working. So we're definitely in this period. Me and everybody I know, like sort of all levels of success are like, this is crazy. It's worse than it was in the pandemic. Really? And I've had a couple of like, there was one thing that I really liked a TV show that the subject matter is something I've been a fan of since I was like three. And I ended up like in a big meeting for that. Like I got right down to the wire and it didn't go my way. That was last month or the month before. But yeah, man, it's just one of those transitionary periods at the moment where you're like, I luckily at the moment can just about afford to like sit this out and not panic, but it is, it's weird out there right now. Not that you need me to say this Sam, but stick it out. Like if it sounds like you've always had someone in your life that is there saying like just, you know, something will come about. So it's not, you know, the gravitas of David Fincher is not there, but stick it out. Something will come about. Right. We are going to get into, I've got a game that we play on the podcast now, and then I've got the closing tradition on the podcast. So the game is this or that. So it's supposed to be 10 questions, but I've got eight for you. So eight questions. Eight questions, two options, quick fire. You've got to me one of the options that I ask. So, list of that. Question number one, New York or Essex? New York. Question number two, action or drama? Action. Question number three, scripted or improv? Scripted. Question number four, horror film or psychological thriller? Horror. Question number five, Carter's or the Mitchell's? Carter's. Question number six is the offense. really offended you with that one. Question number six, studio or location? Studio. Okay. Question number seven, Casper or Jackson? I've played two Caspers. I'm going to say Casper. Nice. Okay. Question number eight, talk or chameleon? talk because I never went to chameleon. I was wondering if you went to Eva, to be honest. That was just an absolute punt sticking it in there, but I'm glad one of them at least came up on your radar. So that's cool. Thank you for getting involved with that. Right, Sam, it's the closing tradition on the podcast. For some reason, the first season, I put in a feature where my mum asks a question of every guest and that has now lasted for every episode. We're like nearly 30 episodes in now. So my mum leaves a voice note, I play it down on the mic and I don't listen to the voice note. So she knows roughly who I'm speaking to and... I can only apologise in advance for the question because it could be, it could go any which way. I'll try and make sure the volume's up. Hi Sam. As your success continues to grow as an actor, what legacy would you like to leave the world? Thank you. God. I tell you what Sam, they're never usually that deep. That's quite a deep, it's quite a deep question. Lisa is my mum's name. Lisa. I think my response to Lisa would be, I know that there are certain films or TV shows that like impart a feeling to me that's inspired me or like, you know, motivated me creatively or just just to do something that people find something useful in. Yeah. You know, I did with that boys in the boat is this very inspirational story about like sort of no matter what the odds are, they can be overcome. And I'm not sentimental like that, but I'm proud that I got to do a movie that if there's like some kid at school that finds some grit through like watching these guys like against all odds prevail. I'm like, I'm really glad that I got to be a part of that. Yeah. You know? That's great. It's a great answer. And I think it's, I think legacy and getting it. hooked on legacy, which I've done in the past. think about, especially now I've got two kids, I've got a six year old and a three year old, and I think about the legacy I'm gonna leave to them. And it just does add a layer of pressure thinking about what you're gonna leave behind. But I think, yeah, the way you term that, Sam, is really lovely. And it's great, like, also getting an opportunity to work on a film like that, I can imagine, was just crazy with the cast and the director, obviously, you know, amazing. Yeah. That was craziest experience ever. Sam, thank you so much. really appreciate you investing so much time in this as well. It's been really lovely getting to know you as well. So thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it. Thanks for listening to Jobsworth. If you enjoyed this episode, please feel free to give us a follow wherever you listen to your podcasts and while you're there. If you could take two seconds to rate the show, that would be awesome. You can follow Jobsworth on Instagram where you'll get teasers for upcoming episodes, some behind the scenes videos and the occasional bit of career inspiration. 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