JobsWorth Reshare - The Local Lads

We're back with another JobsWorth Reshare episode and this we're going back to May 2024 to sit down with Sam Hamblin and Ed White, owners of Essex based menswear business, The Local Merchants. This was a real fan favourite. Let us know what you think. 

The Local Merchants website is here; https://thelocalmerchants.co.uk/

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Chapters

• 0:00 Reshare Intro
• 3:00 Friendship and Early Aspirations
• 6:00 Career Paths and Discovering Passion
• 8:58 The Journey to Entrepreneurship
• 12:06 Building a Business Together
• 14:59 Challenges and Triumphs of Running a Business
• 17:57 Reflections on Success and Growth
• 23:59 Reflections on Time and Growth
• 25:38 The Journey to Establishing a Menswear Shop
• 29:17 Creating a Unique Shopping Experience
• 32:32 Building Relationships with Customers
• 36:40 Balancing Business and Personal Life
• 39:30 Navigating Business Partnerships
• 42:11 The Reality of Work-Life Balance
• 46:25 Learning and Growing as Entrepreneurs
• 46:56 The Thrill of Risk-Taking in Business
• 47:41 Lessons Learned from Mistakes
• 49:28 Defining Entrepreneurial Spirit
• 50:19 Future Plans and Growth Strategies
• 51:43 Hiring and Building a Team
• 54:58 The Importance of Community in Business

Transcript

0:00

Hello and welcome back to another one of our jobs worth reshare episodes this week We're going back to an interview that I did in May 2024 with Sam Hamblin and Ed White who are the owners of the local merchants in Leoncy Sam and Ed have been really good friends of mine now for a few years This was the only episode that I've ever allowed beers into the office when we're recording and I think it's safe to say towards the end of this you can tell It was a real pleasure to have this conversation. It's nice to get to know them a bit better. It was nice that they felt comfortable enough to share a bit more about their experiences. And it's been great. They've just celebrated their third anniversary in business on Lee Road, which is notoriously tough place to run a retail outfit. And they've become a real staple in this part of Essex. It remains to this day, one of the most heartwarming experiences to walk past their big, beautiful shop windows, look in. and see two weirdos frantically waving back at you and long may it continue. So please enjoy the local lads and as always, please let us know what you think in the comments wherever you're listening to this podcast. Jobsworth Season 2 Episode 10 The Local Lads Welcome to episode 10 of Jobsworth season two. It's double trouble once again this week as I sit down with Sam Hamblin and Ed White, owners of the local merchants and menswear business based in Leoncy. Sam and Ed met at school and as you'll come to learn, they've been inseparable ever since. We discussed their experience of school, how they first developed their love of fashion, how that was perceived by their mates and how their sense of style has evolved over the years too. Despite heading down different paths after leaving education, and Ed's friendship never faltered and you could almost say it was fated that the two of them would one day bring their very particular sets of skills to bear on their own venture. Before that though, we looked back at their earlier careers and the experiences that would ultimately lead them to setting up shop in the heart of Leoncy. Running a business with your best mate? It's not for everyone, but Sam and Ed just seemed to make it work. We explored a secret to their successful collaboration, the importance of transparency, and the value of playing to your strengths. I also find out why it's so important to build genuine relationships with your customers and how that shapes their approach to customer service. The Local Merchants has just celebrated its second anniversary. In a sector that can be notoriously hard to crack, Salmonhead's business has become firmly entrenched in the local area and whilst they're officially outsiders, don't tell anyone though, this comedy duo have been welcomed by the community with open arms. So without further ado, let me introduce you to the two new were kids on the block in Leoncy and two of the nicest, most authentic guys you're likely to meet, Sam and Ed. So the opening question on the podcast, if you've listened to three, Sam, you'll know and Ed, if you remember the one you listened to, you'll know as well. So the opening question is always, when you were younger, what did you want to be when you grew up? So Ed, I'm going to start with you. You start with me? Yes. I mean, we've already had this sort of conversation ourselves. But really, I never had an idea of what I wanted to do. Okay. Like just sort of floated. And I don't know, really, it's just like, a lot of pressure put on, like that question, what do you want to do? And it was just like from school, I went to university and all of that and I still at that point was like, and then I sort of run away and went traveling. Yeah, just abandoned it, and just, yeah. Yeah. So when you were a kid, no aspirations, dreams, you just sold on the fact that you just didn't. I mean, my dad, he was an insurance underwriter. He had a very successful business. I went to work for him for a bit. And from that, was just, it was really hard following in my dad's footsteps sort of thing. That was the like, my God, I can't do this. So I was like, I need to go to university because that's what people do. Or that's what I thought. And I went to university and I still was a bit like, well, I wanted to be an architect, ended up doing building surveying. Okay. Got a two, one, and I was like, right, okay, let's put this into practice. And went straight into do land management. And from there I was like, this is incredibly boring. I'm not getting anything out of it. And was like, I can't do this for the rest of my life. So I went traveling. Right. We're going to pick that back up and we can talk a bit more about your adventures. Sam seems happy about that. Go on then Sam, did you have any dreams when you were young? I don't want to upset you, but it's pretty much the same. No, I'll tell you what it was. I've always got away with just doing the bare minimum. I've sort plodded through school. come from, like, my family are very academic. My mum was a special needs advisor, teacher as well for special needs children. My dad was a teacher, he's retired now as well. So I always sort of thought I was going to go down that route. Okay. I just thought, yeah, that's, you know, my parents do it and they're bloody good at it. So yeah, I've got a brother. He's doing a PhD at the moment. My sister is a child therapist. Yeah, so I'm like the black sheep of the family. was the artistic one. I went to sixth form. I got kicked out of sixth form because my attendance was not, well, I went there, I didn't go. Then I took a year off, I worked in JD Sports, then I went to college to do music technology in Colchester Institute. I enjoyed it a lot but then I started realising there weren't really no dough in it. Then I became a forklift driver for UK Mal which is now owned by DHL and I worked in... You plug in DHL? Yeah, big up DHL, We're looking for sponsors actually. I don't know if we driver Tony's the best in the business. I put a word in for you. And then from there, mate, yeah, went into menswear. So I started doing menswear when I was like 22, just doing a full-time job as a sales associate for an independent business in Chelmsford. Very, very successful business. And sort of learn there, learn how to do buying, selling, obviously. Yeah. I'm so involved with it and now I've been doing menswear for 12 years. I'm gonna rewind it slightly because what you've done with those questions is basically answered the next three questions. is brilliant though because both of you, because you've saved me a job from asking it as well. I didn't really have anything in one to be when I was older man. Not this anyway. I'm not doing this. And sometimes I start by asking that question just because I want to see if it's related or if it's linked to what it is you're doing now. But if you're struggling to think of having, I don't know, those aspirations or dreams as a kid, I didn't have any either. So if I was on a podcast being asked that, I would pretty much answer the same thing. But some people I speak to, if you listen to my brother's one, yeah, he knew from a very young age what he wanted to do. Charlotte, who was on very similar kind of mindset they were very driven into what they wanted to do early on and Okay, so I want to take because you two you two are best friends aren't you? Yeah, are you best friends? Yeah, think I'm not gonna test it at any point. But yeah, okay So you've known each other since what age when did you meet? School. Yeah, we met when we were 11. What secondary school would go to? Okay, yeah, so we're from different... it S-H-I-T how? Okay, okay. So what was your experience like at school then? So you met each other and we did you just click straight away even in year? under your wing didn't you? Yeah, I was a little bit of a nerd. Okay. And what was, what was Sam? If you were a nerd, what was, what was Sam? Well, I mean, you you really like David Beckham, didn't you? Probably say you had every haircut. Every haircut. Skinhead. Malik. Yeah, it's just like, you know, like, Really? I cannot imagine that. Can we have some pictures? I was imagining that. I twat with acne. Yeah, I mean that's a good way of putting it. But yeah, yeah, we saw I met you through Skinner, didn't I? of our friends who we're still friends with now. And yeah, I thought it was I must admit very, very cool lad, he was into the same music that my brother got me into. So either indie rock or at that time, hip hop and grime and stuff like that. So we sort of clicked over that. And also, to be fair, like Close was what we started. connecting over without any romance involved. So yeah, we started like, I remember when we used to get jeans from H when we used to rip them with Henry and stuff and try and mimic the Levi 501 ones and stuff. We used to do that and we used to get the same Nike dunks and stuff. Nice. So how was that perceived? Was that at your school? Because I'm trying to think back to me being that age and I was not into fashion. If you saw pictures of me then you'd fucking realized it as well. I don't think any of my friends were really, but was that a thing at your school or was that just a thing that you both shared? Did you feel like you were bit of outliers in that? No, I'd say it was like our group really, me, you, Skinner and Henry, we got into close probably to be fair, because of my big brother. Sorry, keep doing what you said, I keep looking at him. Because of my big brother, he's four years older than me and he sort of showed us the way he was like 16 or 15, 16 when me and Ed met, know, he was at that age when he started going out like stuff like that, underage to bars and stuff and dressing well. So we sort of got it from that, I guess. No, I wouldn't say, I mean, You know, we had a little bit of that, but we were at the same time, Chas, really. You know, we did the Burberry socks tucked in, jogging bottoms and stuff like that. Still went through that. I took it up a level, I went for like the red Burberry stuff. Pinching it up a little bit, yeah. Okay. So your style is what you're saying is not as refined as it is now. No, yeah, yeah, absolutely. But you go through those stages, did. College for me was, if I had to look back at pictures of myself and what I used to wear through college, I'd cry or feel really sorry for the person that I was looking at pictures of. I used to dress like shit, it was so bad. And no one was telling me that I was. I think most, my mum used to do a lot of my shopping for me. So that was my experience. But you go through those awkward phases. Like you said, you know, you go through the awkward phases to then learn what it is you actually want to. Dressed like, looked like, find your style. I think that's the same for anyone though John, especially if you're following fashions and trends. When I went to college and stuff, I dressed like an idiot. Like the rosary beads and all that sort of stuff. Those Kanye West glasses when you go to a club and shit. That was really cool, man. You're not the only one. I know to be honest though I used to just throw stuff on you know like well they're multi-coloured I'll put them on my feet I didn't really care I mean you know I care about some things I love raccoons I love divas. The animals. But yeah, so going back to school, that's what we sort of, and we like football as well. We played for the same football team. And yeah, we started hanging out with each other all the time. Went on a holiday together, we? With my mum, my sister. That was a very good bonding time. Yeah, fond memories. Where did you go? I remember vividly that we listened to Don L. Jones' album a lot, so what's that? We must have been probably 13. 13, 2003? riding our bikes around the forest you know winding our hair was it? Where was it? Center parks? was. Yeah. lot of nostalgia about it. Yeah. good. And then we've been, yeah, like best pals ever since, until he left me. Yeah, He was dead to me for a few years before he came back. What prompted the traveling in the I wanted to, I honestly, I wanted to escape. you know, I'm still living at my parents' house. I didn't really know where I was going. Like I said, I didn't have a sort of pathway of what job I wanted to do. I was like, right. I went away for a year, did like proper traveling, like traveled to loads of places. And I was like, look, I want to go back to Australia. I love it there. You know, like it's the beach at your doorstep and Like you just literally leave work and you meet all your mates and it just felt like fun. guess I was stuck in that sort of now looking back at it, it was an amazing experience, but it was just like, again, I was escaping it, but I wasn't really escaping anything. I was just sort of floating around. had long hair, didn't wear shoes. Going to the servo getting a pie and just loving life, but describing this, what we doing here? Yeah, this is making this sound very mundane. So what... Did you have brothers and sisters? Yeah, I've got a younger sister and then two older sisters. But it's quite a big age gap between the older sisters. But I mean, I still see them all the time. Yeah, I'm just trying to think with your so your dad was kind of this example of someone that was very successful and ran a successful business Yeah, you could have by the sounds of it gone into that route if you wanted to there was opportunities there opportunities, yeah. was just... It sounds really corny, but that sort of free spirit almost like I don't... I don't want to do that. Like, you've told me to... You like you've looked after me my whole life and now I'm like, like, no, actually, I need to find my own way. Yeah, I mean, at the time, I'm not sure that's how I felt about it. But now looking back, it's actually, yeah. Sounds good on a podcast. I think you're right mate, it was that and it was good for you to go there man. Yeah. So how long did you go traveling for? First stint was a year and then after that was like two and a half years. Right. Okay. And when you came back, did you feel like you'd found what you were looking at? That sounds corny, doesn't it? But like what you were looking for, did it do the job you were hoping? No, no, No. Did it just kind of delay the inevitable which was I need, I need to get a proper job. I need to get some money. went for a job, so I was working for, I did loads of stuff but then I actually found a job that I actually really enjoyed and it was for being sports, nice plug there, they're a sports channel across the globe. Looking for sponsors. And from there I was sort of like, right, I'm enjoying this role. I really like the people I work with. I feel like I'm part of a family almost. And then we get on, we go out and it's also work as well. And I went for a role and I didn't get it. And then I was like, oh, well there wasn't any like, what? I didn't plan for not getting the role. In my head, I'd always like, I'm going get this, I'm going to stay, this is going be amazing. And I was like, well, no, I'm just going to... spend my money and fly home. And I did and I got home and I was like, right, what do I do now? And then I went, I spoke to my brother-in-law and he was like, look, he was running a sort of multiple agencies and he sort of said like, why didn't you like, I'll give you a sort of job and if you like it, then you know, like go from there sort of thing. So I did like a couple of weeks with him. And he was like, yeah, actually, you know, you're really good at this side of things. And I sort of fell into this project management role. I then ended up like working with people like Lego, Mars and their global teams. it was, you know, it was, it was good. But I wasn't really, I didn't really feel like I was, I mean, I was a part of, you know, like the team that we work with, but I didn't really feel like I was going to go anywhere with this. I know, and then that's what got me in like a, in even more of a rut. And I was sort of going to see Sam all the time and you know, like just like, Hey, you're all right Sam, how's it going? And from there, sort of like clicked in my head. Actually, there is something I want to do. I mean, I've always wanted in my head to sort of, I guess run my own business, like, yeah, be my own boss because that way it's me. It's not like working for anyone else or following my dad's footsteps and I think that's where it all sort of started to like click into play. Yeah, think, speaking from my own experience, and Sam, you could probably attest to this as well, having worked for people for a good number of years, there's a big element and the motivator for me to set up a language that I just didn't want to work for anyone anymore. I just got so fed up of sort of dancing to the beat of someone else's drum and even though, and again, you can, I'm sure this resonates, working for myself is some of the most... acute stress that I've ever been through. It is my stress. It's self induced. Yeah, there's variables I can't control, but I'm doing it for me as a direct response to the work that I'm putting in. You get out what you put in, I'll firmly believe it. Even when it gets incredibly stressful, you've got to try and smile and battle through it because it's pigs and troughs, isn't it? Yeah, it is that it's the awful roller coaster cliche of everything like you can have a week two weeks a month where everything is going in right direction and just a few things fall out of place and You come crashing down again. So So gonna say I'm so you moved into so you've been working in menswear for 12 years So kind of bring me back to the stage then where you Did you guys keep close as you went down your sort of separate career routes? Have you always been? Yeah, yeah, okay When we were in Australia, we were still always in contact. Ed come back, I was working for a different menswear company as the menswear buyer and manager. And I was there for eight years, fantastic business, very successful business. And then it was just time for me to go. In the end, Ed wanted me to start something ourselves. We didn't know whether to do online, just an online store, because Ed can do e-commerce, stuff like that. Take me back to those conversations. How did this idea that you had start to become the local merchants? Where did that come from? of together, chatting about what we could do together and stuff like that. And it was always me who was, Ed was well up for it. And I've always been a little bit, a bit of a pussy to be honest. I was like, I'm happy in my job where I am at the moment, stuff like that. It's going well. Well, obviously there was the fact that you had a kid and then it was like, actually it's like, I've got to look after this little human being. And then I just felt maybe a little bit stagnant in the end so in the end I just thought I've got to do it. So Ed in a way was kind of like coming there and stoking that fire in you to say, come on, we can do this. About 100%, as well as my wife, drove me to start something. And it's the best decision I've ever made. I mean I spent most of the money that was supposed to go towards the business just buying clothes from you to be like in the shop and be like are you sure you don't That was your pitch. That was way of just being in that environment all the time. So yeah, yeah, that's how come about. It took a while. So what, what clipped for you then to finally say, yeah, let's do it. Lots of personal reasons really and I just felt like I did I always had a drive of wanting to do something myself and Be part of something not just work for someone, you know, hmm When I hit my my 30s and then I had a little boy got a little girl down as well Just felt if I don't do if you don't take that risk Then what's gonna happen? I'm still gonna be doing the same thing in 10 years. Do you know what I mean? And yeah, I didn't want to have any regrets and I'm just happy I went for it. It's a double-edged sword, isn't it, being a parent? Yeah. Because you do have a different type of responsibility. I'm not going to say more responsibility, Ed, because I know you've not got kids. He's got cat. well that's the same. it's a different... I don't like cats. But I think it's a different responsibility in that I think some of those, the gravity of those decisions... Yeah. I'm going to leave the perceived security of it. Yeah. Okay. Actually Rob was holding me back the whole time. And then in the end we went through it and it took probably about three or four months when we started setting it up and after about three or four months that's when I realised yeah this is gonna work. We've got faith in it. Working with Ed is fantastic, we trust each other. It a bit of a roller coaster though. Even before that, know, like it was like, I mean, is this actually going to happen sort of thing? And it was sort of ups and downs. then, and then at one point I was like, on, it got to me, like, I was like, I, you know, if this doesn't go through, I don't actually know what I'm coming. go back to Australia. I can't keep doing this, you know? So this for you was like a very conscious decision that you were now ready to channel your efforts and energy into something that you knew you wanted to be. I knew it could be a success. I mean we've been doing it two years which is mental. Bye. But mentor in what way does it feel like you've been doing it longer? No You know what it is mate, it's so strange because yes and no. Like when I think of when we were like decorating the shop and stuff we were doing it or me and did it all ourselves to save costs and that seems like yesterday. But then there's certain times when I'm thinking about like I look at old like stock on our like our back database. I'm like ah shit I remember that then that seems like ages ago. It's weird. Yeah I know, know. Do you know what I mean? Speaking from my experience because I've been coming to see you guys since you opened. yeah. And it definitely feels like you've been... Our one and only customer. But it definitely feels like you guys have been like an integral part of that part of Lee Road for much more than two years. Yeah. And now, I think it's because in part... It's because of where you situated your next to cult coffee as well. Those two places in terms of bricks and mortar premises on Lee road, you just know them. And like there's this sense of like, I don't know that I don't know what it is. It's like a waypoint every time you walk past it, there's something really nostalgic about it. And you've been there for two fucking years. That's mad. And that's, that's because of what you've created there. So you should be super proud. That actually, without a sound in corny, we said corny three times in this. Yeah, I've never seen it on this podcast. That me well up a little bit. Thanks man. I want to know a bit more about the process then. So you decide you get Sam on board. Yes, you've got the buy-in. What's the process then? So you go from having an idea of setting up a menswear shop. Where? Was Lee the location? obviously I was at this business for eight years. So in menswear with certain brands and stuff, you have to be outside a 10 mile radius. So a lot of brands won't stop, unless it's a big populated city like London, Manchester, you can't, these brands won't work with you within 10 miles. So we had to think of somewhere outside of that zone or we didn't want, I definitely didn't want to tread on my old employers. toes. So we looked, we went on recces, we were going around. Jolly up. Was it always at a pub? Yeah, yeah, yeah. was a bar crawl. the end of the road. What if we just open up this pub? That's pretty much what you've done. Yeah, obviously we've had many a trip to Leon C with friends, with family or whatever. And they've been menswear businesses there before and a lot of them, well, they'd all come and gone pretty much. It was always a bit of a red flag there. But in the end, we just loved the area so much. We saw the shop and we kept on humming and aahing because we wanted the Broadway. Yeah. because of obviously how much it is a lot busier, maybe not now, but it certainly was. But then this shop, we just slowly fell in love with it. I mean, it is a beautiful shop, you know, like all the original windows and stuff. What the I was. Yeah, it was a head. still finding hair Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't disbelieve That was there for god, 40 years. I remember now I remember all the the chairs and the like they had I don't oh, I'm doing a really bad job like 80s American pine Was it wood I'll a lot of wood in there. Yeah. Yeah Brick feature wall. Very sexy. Very sexy wall. Yeah was the sexiest wall. So you found the sexy wall in this, this corner pot. Yeah, so we went in to take over the lease and then just started buying stock, approaching brands and something that we've wanted to do since we started the business. We're called merchants, we're called local merchants, which is funny because we're not actually that local. We should be called the local-ish merchants, but the store's local. That was the idea. But a lot of the brands weren't in the UK yet. Right. we wanted to represent them and be their first official stockists. We were approaching these brands, they're not in the UK yet. And they're sort of like, who the fuck are you? And a lot of them, like Berwitz trousers, for instance, which is to this day, it was our best seller, if not our second best selling brand, an Italian trouser company that had never been in the UK. They wanted to break the market. And they started working with us. We approached them, we went out to Milan and started making meetings, buying stock, and then it was going to come in. I don't know, like four months. Milan it wasn't again a jolly up it's know It was a joy the others were as fine as... But yeah, and that's how it went. So you could I'm just saying from from the the menswear perspective you've I guess got the commercial expertise at this point and you've got Well, yeah, I 12 years or 10 years at that point in the in and around the market So edge you'll bring in the the commerce and the design and the marketing side of things to the table. Yeah I guess we're a multi-brand store, but in my eyes when we were setting this up is We need to make ourselves a brand like the local merchants like that needs to be The main I don't know. What's the word? I'm looking for it's it Yeah I wanted to make it a brand. I wanted to make it personable to us. When we were setting it up, it's an experience. had to sell it all under this one thing. It's not just where a clothes shop that sells clothes. Yeah, Again, it's an experience as well. What we're about really in Germany. Is that the vision you had before, you know, when you went to Sam and you're knocking on his door and saying, not literally, maybe you were, I don't know, but you're saying to him, right, come and sit. in his environment, like it sounds crazy but he's working and the way he's... we don't like to push clothes on people. No. We just want to dress people up because we want them to enjoy themselves and come out of it thinking, you know actually I don't need to wear these really skinny jeans or like just mixture of clothes that doesn't work. And like we saying earlier, we'll look shit in 10 years. Something that's relatively classic that will look good no matter the time. We're very passionate about clothes, we love clothes, but at the same time we love people and having them in the store and giving them a good experience. Yeah. I'm going to just share an anecdote of the first time that I came into you. Cause I had been recommended to come into the shop by Jamie. We just named and shamed Jamie Milner, but cause he'd been a client, a client of yours for a customer of yours for a long, long time. yeah, Jamie had recommended to come in and I, and I hate Jamie. I knew I shouldn't have left that pause, but I love you Jamie, but I hate shopping. I hate shopping for clients. It's tends to be because I can never find anything that fits me. The experience has always been shit. My a lot of blokes a lot of that. Yeah, and there's nothing local. know, my experience with shopping was going definitely before I came to you guys was either doing it online and having to send everything back because the sizes were crap or going to Lakeside or Bluewater, which is shit. As an experience, it's horrific to go around. personality in these like these big department stores and stuff like that they don't give a s*** I don't care if you go home and your missus says you look like an idiot in that you know like and then you never want to shop there again that's the opposite to what we wanted we you it's all about building relationships as you know and well this is it trusting Because the moment I came in to see you guys, I felt like, you know, it wouldn't have mattered to you whether I'd bought clothes in your shop or not. that, you know, that might be because you were both incredibly good salespeople. But I went in and the first thing you said was just like, you know, do you want a drink? Come and tell us about what you're looking for. I think I'd even dropped you a message on Instagram to say, I'm coming in. Can you help me look at this, this and this? And I walked out of there having spent a bit of money. But it just felt for the first time, and I've told you this in visits since, it felt for the first time that I actually enjoyed a shopping experience. But if you can convert me, who is anti-co-shopping and hates that whole process, to be a returning customer, then you've got to be doing something right. In terms of that experience, that's a huge thing. Yeah, I mean, a lot of it is we give, we give alcohol to our customers. That's right away. Come a week. Yeah, yeah. It comes back to that experience thing. And like Ed said a minute ago, not being pushy. my first time I went into a menswear job, I remember being a young kid and going into that shop when I wanted a Ralph Lauren Polo and it was like 60 % off in this hour and shit. and they're pushing on you or they're looking at you like, you can't come in here. Do you know what I mean? And that is the opposite to how shopping should be. You should come in, you should feel welcome no matter what. No pressure, but if you need our help, we'll help you. We've got your size at the back in anything you want, just give us a shout if you need us. And then if you trust us, then we will dress you up. Yeah, which is exactly what you've done for me. Yeah. People like, you put all the clothes on and you come out and you feel, well we like to think you feel great, but honestly, we see you and like, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like we dressed three people today. One was a groom, one had a party on, well I say party, was a send-off but celebrating their father and then the other was sadly for a funeral but all of them like dressed in completely different outfits and they came out and they just went, I feel so good in this. Yeah, I feel like they all look tipped up, all completely different body shapes as well. And we just managed to give them a really good experience. hope anyway. And yeah, that's what it's about. We love it. We'll take photos of them and then afterwards we'll put it on our socials. Like, that looks sick man. And yeah, we get lot of buzz. No, that's so good. And that satisfaction is still the same, if not more, the longer the business goes on, you still get that buzz when people walk out wearing your stuff. gonna sound like a poop of milk but I mean the first time that we put a sail through I started willing up. you I mean I'm I like that. It's a big moment. It was Simon Bond, hello mate, absolutely legend, he did all the plants for our store and we put out just a few pieces of knitwear hadn't we, like on the well just to see what it looked like. The shop was still like a carcass really. We've just got the till system in hadn't we? We did, actually you just. pressing a couple of buttons. Simon busted through the door and he was like... he was like, yeah, I'll have that. And I was like, what? He's like, yeah, I'll have that. Do want to try it on? No, I'll fit 40 years chest. was like, or 38, sorry, Simon. then, yeah, yeah. And then put it through and I got all welled up. I don't get like that with every sale. I mean that's emotionally draining. Where's Sam? Is he in the toilet again? No, actually he's out back weeping. Yeah, every time. But I still get, I can't speak for it, but I'll get a big buzz out of it. Especially when they put their trust enough to dress them in like, something like today, like whole outfits. And they're just like, what do you think looks good, rare and rare? And then they do it and they're like, oh, that does look good. Yeah, I love that. That's what I'm like getting all excited about. you feel like it's mission like almost mission accomplished in that regard that you're providing that experience and people are now coming back because the return cost of it is here too So you get people coming back through the door Biggest compliment and the biggest good sign of, yeah. Yeah Amazing. I was just going to ask you, like, do you feel like there's elements? Cause you are very different characters, like you can see why you're friends, but you're also different characters. I think that's safe to say. So. You what you mean I'm not the really tall like laughing lad do this? Hyatt's not a character, but I think there's different elements of you. mean, just listen to Sam, like he's a loud guy and he's obviously got that confidence and Ed, I think your confidence is just more understated. Yeah, can imagine you patch up. is always nervous as anything to do this today. No shaking with them, Yeah, I would agree that we're too... But you can't say your personalities compliment each other. So, cause if you were both maybe like you or like you, that's not going to work in a business partnership. Yeah. So, so I guess the point I'm trying to explore is as a business partnership to date, you've been really successful. You both just so happen to be best friends too. I'm just trying to think of how many times that does work. It's not, I don't mean as a common occurrence that best friends end up starting a business and then that can always be really successful. So I think it's because you've got different characters that you compliment each other. Yeah, 100%. If we were both me, Jesus Christ, I'd get my arm... I don't think anyone would be able to like hear anyone in this exactly. You said you can hear my laugh. think it works. also, we've had a rule since we started that if there's anything that annoys us, like we've done something and you've just nipping it back. You've got to communicate. It's massive. That's another thing is me and Ed are both as well, well, very like we never lose our temper. If we have a disagreement about something, we discuss it. It's the best way, otherwise it won't work. Do you think again that's a yeah, it's resentment to build some bubbles. We are business partners and the business is very, important, but we are best pals first. Right. That was one thing I was going to ask because the dynamic shifts point. the way you prioritise is best friends first. Yeah, yeah, well, that's how I mean, we've never had that exact discussion. It's just an interesting comment because I get the sense that that's the case but yeah, it's interesting because Going into business with your best friend. There is a risk that that those lines can be blurred at times But you sound like you've got the right dynamic Yeah, we are friends first. Of course we are. That's very, very important. mean, listen, as I say, we've always said that if something goes wrong, like Ed has, I probably annoyed Ed a lot, lot more than he's annoyed me. He barely annoys me. He works. At the moment, because I've got two little kids, I'm not there as much as Ed is. I mean, still, we still, both of us do six days a week. It's a rarity that we'll do five days a week. Cause you know, we've only been open two years. And you're open seven days a week, We're open seven days a week. Yeah, we've got two members of staff as well. But I think for the first five years in a business, me personally, I think that the whole, what do you call it, like life and work balance, I think that you've got to put as much into work as you can personally for it to work. But that being said, I'm still trying to spend as much time as I can. Yeah, I was going to ask then because that leads to the question like how it sounds like you've got a really supportive other half and obviously your kids are young as well. But how does how bought in are they? So you said Victoria at the time where Ed was saying we need to start this business, she was banging the drums to do it too. So it sounds like you got that support at home to say, Oh, everyone's support. Go and do that. My family, Victoria's family, Ed of course. But Victoria's very supportive still, like very understanding. Yeah, great. You you need that don't you? Because if you've got that resentment at wouldn't be able to do it without that. But yeah, that being said, I still get one weekend day off with them every week and I get to bath them every night. So I see them a lot more than a lot of dads would, but it's six days a week, know. Obviously the trips, go, oh, it's such a chore. We go to Florence and Milan and stuff. We're going to Amsterdam soon. But that does, you you're away from your family and then she's looking after two little kiddies when I'm not there. Yeah. I to look after you, guess. It looks after me. At you don't have to look after a pig, buddy. But yeah. Nice. So there's that dynamic shift then, isn't there, sort of your, I guess you're at home, you're hands on dad, you're a parent and you're a partner and then you come to work and you get to invest your energy in something that you enjoy doing. Yes. Yeah, I enjoy it, I love being at home, but I love being at work too. It's both, very lucky. Cause this is, this is something that, cause you talk about work life balance and this is, this is, um, addressed at both of you, but I think I'm, I'm of the same mindset. Everyone goes on about work life balance, which is subjective. It's going to be completely different to anyone that you speak to their version of what it looks like. It's going to be different. think it's 50-50 and you're out of business then that's bollocks. so my whole motivation for me starting up a moment was to get a better work-life balance after I had my son and he was one and I settled the business and then I think zooming out I've had a better work-life balance. If you zoomed out over the space of five years now, it's been better and it's my own stress, it's the own pressure I've put myself under. But yeah, I would never say that trying to get the work-life balance, if that was the aim, I fucked up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You won't have a successful business if you're doing 50-50 with... So this is a really good point because I think a lot of the narrative now from people that are, like we're against hustle culture now. So hustle culture is a bad thing. Working 14, 15, 16 hours a day is a bad thing. Always trying to make sure you're looking after yourself and don't sacrifice your wellbeing is a bad thing. But without an element of sacrifice, how the fuck are you going to grow something? How are you going to make it successful? I still think there's not enough hours in the day for what we do. I know it looks like we don't do much, but we do a lot of work. We're always trying to grow it. And I, do know what, even from the podcast with Dean, there's things that Ella, partner has been saying to me that I know deep down that we should have done already, but I now think we're in a better space for it when it comes to more goals or milestones and stuff like that. and, know, putting that pressure on myself, I mean, it doesn't help if have a sale comes in and it goes ding and then you're like, okay. Is this an online sale you're talking about? get notifications coming through. Yeah, and then you're like, okay, you're right. when you sort that out and then you switch back on again. But I try to generally, when I get home, switch off, but then I know that we've got stuff coming up and then all of a sudden it starts to unravel again. And I'm like, right, I need to. build up on this plan that I've put in place, it's not quite right. So yeah, actually, I probably don't really switch off. I like to think in my head that I do, but when you actually think about it, it's no, you know, like. Yeah, I mean you, and you won't mind me saying this, you do, you build it up in your head a lot, like what we have to do, whereas I'm still, like we were talking about when I was in school, I'm sort of plodding along bare minimum. I don't do the bare minimum now, obviously, but Ed is very, and it's good, because I need it, I'm not. We compliment each other in a lot of ways. I'm a pessimist, Ed's an optimist, hence that's why the business come, because he wanted me to crack on. Yeah. And I was like, no, it could fail. And then, you know, he was the one who got me there. then there's like, recently we ordered, well I say recently, last year, remember when we ordered 30 shirts, right, of this, just one star, 30 of them. I've never ordered 30 of something in my life. The most I've probably ordered is about 15 of one star. And he's like, just fucking do it, like that. And I'm just like, no, I don't know what to do, but he'll push me to do it, you see. We ended up having a hundred percent selfie on it. They all went wild. But without him, I wouldn't have done that. At the same time, I'm not very organised. Ed's organised, but you'll build it up in your head a bit longer. You've got so much to do. Whereas I'm like, we'll get it done. We do tend to get it done, but there's a lot, yeah, like Dean said on the podcast, we could probably organise that a bit better, and that is a lot my fault, to be fair. We could sit down and say, you know, we wanna do this by this date, that by this date. think a big part of that is though, is like, we've never run a business before. of course. We're still learning. And we were like, you go into it and I'm like, I've worked, like I said, worked with brands and stuff and I've project managed this and done that. But actually when it comes down to it's like, well, you know, I need to be right. is this going to work or is that going to work? I don't know, you know? What an amazing thing. Do you have any mentors or guidance or anything beyond the experience that you both got to help steer this? That's terrifying. And then we're still like, Sam Giles has got Tim Tim and he's become a very good friend of ours. he said, he was sitting down every day, he said, would you say you're entrepreneurial? I'm like, no, not at all. I just like clothes. I like talking to people. I like buying and selling. That's it. wouldn't say like, literally in sixth form, I went to do business and they said, absolutely not. You're doing drama or something like that. Worrying for some reason we do it all it's the thrill though, the risk taking. There are certain risks that like, yeah, actually that's not a great idea, but actually it's like, if we don't do this. Like we said earlier, if you don't do it, you know... to learn the cliches that you'll learn from your mistakes. As long as it's not a catastrophic mistake that you're making. If it's mission critical. I we do play it safe, I think you have to, like especially in the first five years. We have been playing it safe, yeah, and it's working so far. Tell me then, can you share one of the biggest mistakes you've made in business or one of the biggest lessons that you've learned maybe? I think I've worded it as mistake to Dean and then I reworded it as lesson. So what do you reckon one of the biggest lessons have been? You can both have one each. You don't have to agree on it. Maybe not doing it sooner. You don't know. Well yeah you say that not doing it sooner but then like pandemic Yeah, that would have been. No, yeah, that's good. Yeah, I- Have you fucked up at any point? Have there been fuck ups? yeah, yeah. Sam, Sam just had a baby. And you don't know. I'm pretty good with kids. Come on. It was the summer, it was hot. We'd ordered a lot of shorts and they hadn't come in yet. And the sort of shorts that we did have had sold. So I'm like scrambling. Where can I get stuff from? And I was like, look, Colourful Stands is great. So I went straight on there, you know, system and I was, I ordered loads of Navy. Shorts, yeah? They weren't navy. I'm fucking sitting out the back. Quite electric blue though, I like. They're nice, they are nice. I do like them, but we didn't need about 30 of them. You buy it small in that and you not work You know you'll sell loads of you won't sell that many electric blue. That's our biggest mistake. You're doing alright. think, of course there's been lots of but they're all little mistakes. Do you know what mean? Like, there's nothing that I'm like, my God, Jesus, that's massive. I think, yeah. Don't struggle to search one. If you're two years in, I'm not saying it because it makes for a good sound bite, but I just think people will be interested if they're going through the same experience. You're going into this, having never set up a business before and you can be two years down the line and not had a fuck up that's big enough to come into your heads right now. That's pretty good going. I wouldn't say nothing catastrophic, like, Jesus. So I'd be then inclined to say when you're, when you're resisting that label of entrepreneurial or, or, or being an entrepreneur, actually there, there are a lot of elements of a lot of boxes that you both check with that. I mean, by definition, by default, are checking those, checking those boxes and you're doing it I don't know what the exact definition and the dictionary is of an entrepreneur, but we're looking to grow it all the time. We'd like to expand it at some point. So I guess we are entrepreneurial. This is the question because maybe some of the strategy that you play out in your head sometimes is getting other premises or getting a bigger shop, whatever that looks like. What are the plans for the business moving forward? Share anything. I mean, right now it's just sort of like getting a few more seasons under our belt, growing it that way. You know, we've built a team. There was just two of us, there's three, now there's four of us. And we do take the slow and steady approach, but we're always thinking about other things. We've got a collaboration coming up, which is in months, yeah, about that. We want to expand, but we're not in a hurry. As we say, this is two years. But that's a really measured approach to take, it? guess you're in a, you know, financially you're in a position maybe where you could explore that as a potential route if you wanted to. Because some people drive to their measure of success isn't about making something stable, it's about getting more shops or getting more signs on And also, I think you were speaking to Dean about this, about him and Asa. The boys, of course, are fantastic, staff. But the shop is still seen as me and Ed. We are the focus of the business. And for us to go off now and start looking for other premises and putting loads of effort into that, and we're never in that shop, I think that would be detrimental. What's it been like hiring people to come and represent your brand? I know, listen, and the day we do expand, I know. And it can be tough, but we got Charles who works for us. He was your first employee? Yeah. Listen, there's nothing about men's where he doesn't know. It makes us look like idiots. If you can do it anymore. He's just great. He worked for New Inlingwood in uptown, German Street. there. He ran the store for 10 years. And then Ben Rajah, do you know Ben? He's not... yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah the man out, wasn't he? He's just started with us and he's fantastic. I mean, he's got the gift of the game. He's so easy to work with. Yeah, so you've had you've had a real, you know lucky streak there with with hiring three people have gone have gone well May ask you, would you like to ask? Yeah. Would I like to have staff? Yeah. So yeah, funnily enough, I have, I've just hired my first employee. Yeah. Which is a big step for me moving forward as well. Cause I promised I'd never do it. really? Yeah. I hate managing people. I'm an asshole. I'd like to work for ultimately that's always been my inter like my, opinion of myself as a manager is that I'm a control freak. Yeah, exactly. And this is why I ask from a hiring perspective, you guys, birthed this business into life, you've been the face of it, trusting people to represent a brand that is associated so closely with you is a big deal. yeah, it's a big deal. It is nerve wracking. But you've to have trust in the people. And I have confidence in me and Ed and how we choose people. We really think about it. It's not like we don't just go in and we act. Drag someone off the street. You'll do. Come on. And we're lucky we do have quite a few applicants that come in and stuff, but we really do knuckle down and think who can we Who's right for the role? Yeah, who's right for the role and who we trust? I think the nice thing about you too as well is that you've developed this brand, which is beyond just the local merchants. It's your own personal brand too. So I think you're going to filter out some people that maybe won't come and work for you. And that's a good thing. That's a really good thing. And that's what I advocate for a lot of the businesses I work with. You've got to, like some people that maybe work in your line of work will see your videos on TikTok and they'll see your videos on Instagram and they'll think, how can they market clothes like that? The clothes that people are coming in and spending good amount of money to buy. I absolutely love it. Like that, but that attracts me into your shop and it will nail in eight people that don't want to come in and, and be associated with a brand like that. that's a good thing. a positive. Yeah. You can't please everyone. Yeah, it's brilliant. I Men's wear is like, especially classic menswear, well I say that with inverted commas, you know like jackets, Taylor trousers. Yeah, there's a stigma around it and how it's marketed and everything Go to parties now. We laugh because we overhear conversations that these blokes are talking about. They're talking about whether you should have a dimple in your tie or not. And they take it so seriously. We were literally at a party. Someone was talking about that, three blokes. One of them had an umbrella over his arm like that. it was like, ha, ha, ha. He looked like he was from the Victorian ages. He looked cool, but I was just like, ah. And then I turned around and I'm like, where's Ed? And there's a little toy dog in the window next door and he's going, hello boy, hello boy, hello boy. And I'm like, well, that's what we do. And we love the clothes. And the clothes at the end of the day. We like that they'll look cool in 10 years still and stuff like that. You've got to have a bit of fun. I mean, it is serious, know, it's your life, it's your work, but if you don't enjoy it, then it's never good. comes across it really comes across Sorry, we ain't in it for the dough. But I love it. I love going to work. I absolutely love it. Me and Ed just have a laugh all day with work cards. That's brilliant. And a lot of chilli sauce. Right, we're nearing the end. Really? man, I'm just... a dumbass. Yeah, and I think I might have remembered what I was gonna say, huh? Right. Well, the running themes on the podcast this season has been people based in, in Leon C businesses that are based in Leon C. So creatives, entrepreneurs, or business owners in Leon C. Um, it's been something I've been exploring as to why there's such a high number, high concentration of people in this neck of the woods that are ticking those boxes. Yeah. What do you think first off that I'm making sense with that. Do you think that is a thing? I mean, you've, you've named a couple of people, whose name I can't remember now. Sam. Sam. you've named Sam as being he's a, he's a prime example of someone that runs a number of businesses in Leon C. What is special about this area that first off attracts people to operate businesses. I personally think it's community. You come in, people accept who you are. You're know, this really laughing guy and this guy, you know, six foot. Six foot one. Six, six, six! One handsome But, you know, like, we fit in. Love our neighbours. We love Jamie. Have you had Jamie from VNRV or? Yeah, he's been on. His episode's coming out in a couple of weeks. make him jump every day. I love it. If he dies one day it will be probably because of We make a point of going to every restaurant to eat to it. You know, there's some that we haven't yet, we make sure. Local, you know, like when we do our photo shoots, I said to Sam, it's like, it's all good having it in the shops. The shops nice and stuff, but why not do it in other businesses? One, we promote our clothes and it's just like, makes sense. So it's like, yeah, to promote the community. I mean, we obviously live in Chelmsford and it feels very different there, mate. I love Chelmsford. I don't. But it's very, very different. Independent driven. mean, Costa got booted out. don't know if I can say that on your podcast, sorry, mate. can believe it. you can sell it. They're not a sponsor. people just didn't want to work with them. They didn't want to work with them. They didn't want to go in and get their coffee from them because all the coffee shops there are the nuts for one. Their family owned businesses or whatever. Yeah, and that's what drew us to it because it is like a little pocket of just a completely different feel to the rest of Essex. I feel when you're Yeah, I think I think that runs in a similar vein to what a lot of people have said but usually I'm speaking to people that have grown up around this neck of the woods. So what was it like then when no one's gonna be running at you with pitchforks are they saying get the fuck out of league because you're from Chelmsford? Did you get any... few people. Really? Not like that, there was someone who was on the door when we were about to open and he was like looking up, looking up and he's just like, where are you from then? I'm from just outside Chelmsford, not very local, you know? Like that. And he he weren't joking, being dead serious. I was like, alright sweet mate. I was like, fuck off. Anyway, he's been back and spent. Yeah, so yeah. You converted him. He didn't hate it that much, yeah. No, no, to be fair, everyone's been very welcoming. Honestly, we were talking about this the other day, we? I think we may not have worked as well, maybe, if we weren't from that. Yeah, if we were from here, I don't think. Yeah. Yeah, like two new faces, friendly, like loud chatty guys. No, but you want to support a new business that comes in with that attitude. And you haven't developed a click because that is, I think that's one of the downsides that has been stated on some of the episodes that haven't necessarily aired yet, but some of the clickiness sometimes that you'll get in like small pockets, but that happens. know, that happens. We're very, very conscious of that. I can't keep on saying it, but things run about being fair of us. We are fair of people. Yeah, of course, on the test of that. talk to you, we like to, if we can help out, know, but we will never ever, ever tell anyone what we are told in the shop. can't. That's the table of trust. Exactly, it's trust. It's a relationship. And yeah, and you know, there's lots of different people. Some people might not like each other in legal, whatever. You get it wherever you go though, little pockets of community there. Exactly. And yeah, we're very conscious. Okay, so community, if you had to sum it up in one word, it's community. You definitely community, Phil. they want you to succeed, if we succeed, they succeed. Yeah That'd be the sound bite it just made the sound but you've forgotten half of what you're gonna say but that Who wants to see empty shops on the high street there's too many of them now and it's a real shame The nice thing is like you've got Lee Road and the Broadway and yeah, there's a couple that pop up as empty every now and again, but they're pretty quickly of independence coming back in. it's weird. I feel weird calling it a high street, but it is for all intents and purposes. It's Lee's high street, isn't it? It is but yeah, as you said, it doesn't feel Yeah, it doesn't like and pretty much every shop you want to stick your head in and go and look at that's personality it's not just a phone shop or whatever like do you know what? Let's address. one, there's two phone shops now. Yeah. Seriously, right because my take on it is I've never I've never expected they were gonna green light phone shops on the Lee Road and that is too in that stretch Mike not sure how, you know, how they, I don't think, I think they just set up shop. I think that's it. Mission... Closed! Hey, Yeah. like, whatever. You alright now? Fair, yeah. do, I mean, yeah, I've got my own opinions about Lee, but I think a lot of them are positive. A lot of them are really positive. What about the ones that aren't so positive? Yeah, it's a good point, because I said that at some point in this season, I want to try and wrap it up with like a conclusion. This won't be the episode where I do it. hope to that. I just that you were put me on the spot. it's, I think Charlotte. I don't if you know Charlotte Sayers. Yeah. She's awesome. Like her episode was great and the response to it has been brilliant, but she, she was the first person to say about community and that, that collaboration, like her big driver is that she wants to help people succeed. And the nice thing about Lee is that you can connect people within two names and there may be a way to make money, a way to support, support a small business or even start a new one. And that's what I like about it. So it's collaboration and community are probably the two words that I'm coming closest to to describe like why people come here and why people are successful here. Yeah, maybe I'll do a little epilogue episode that covers the bits of the community that aren't so great. You're going to have that anywhere and it's going to be completely subjective because it's just my fucking opinion. It's my podcast. Do what the hell. Right. Right. Gents, do you know what you've been? I knew this was going to be fun anyway. And you are honestly two of my favorite people. You've not been in my life for long, but I just want to say thank you as well. Cause you've given me a load of support in a very short time that we've known each other on a personal level. And that's been, that's meant a lot to me. So thank you. for giving us the opportunity to come on. If I'd done a podcast and not invited you on and I was doing it this I'd be crucified Yeah, I mean, you know. Are you getting your mum's question up now? Yeah. Creepy. Does she have blonde hair? Roy. Stone. We are- turned my laugh down, can't... No. You're in, you're locked in now. Right, so mum's question. So yeah, the closing tradition of the podcast is that mum asks a question for you guys. Now she knows roughly who you are. and I don't listen to the question before she sends it. I play it on the phone. Hi, Simonet. I wonder if you can answer this question on behalf of John's other half, Sophie. How much does he actually spend in your shop? Thanks very much. It's the evil laugh. I was going to say you obviously can't say a figure of what I spend. Thanks for that, mum. I'm a good customer. Yeah, I'm a good customer. There you go. Thanks, mom. Right. I can't just say you sound lovely. You sound lovely and blonde. We're not getting into this. No, he's a very, very good client of ours. You don't have to be a good client just to spend a lot. Coming back in having that chat, know, like we're are Ahem. in a multitude of ways. Well look, thank you so much. I'm gonna let you get on with your evenings and thank you for sacrificing a lot of your nights. Thank you so much. Cheers. Thanks for listening to Jobsworth. If you enjoyed this episode, please feel free to like and subscribe. You can stay connected by following me on LinkedIn for more insights on the world of work, behind the scenes content and updates on upcoming episodes.