JobsWorth Reshare - Breaking Boundaries

For our penultimate Reshare episode we're going back to a conversation I had in March 2024 with Charlotte Debond-Sayer, founder of Essex based wedding and events venue, The Boundary.  

Ever wondered how a childhood passion can ignite a trailblazing career in interior design and entrepreneurship? Charlotte Debond-Sayer joined me to share her extraordinary journey from dreaming of beautifying spaces as a child to creating The Boundary, a unique Essex-based wedding and events venue. This episode unravels Charlotte's story, weaving through the transformative impact of motherhood on her career, the resilience needed to shift from employee to business owner, and the importance of setting a powerful example for her daughters.

The path to success is as much about the missteps as the milestones. Charlotte and I traverse the education and experiences that led her to interior design, reflecting on how a blend of family influence, academic choices, and a healthy dose of independence shaped her professional ambitions. We highlight the critical moments of her career, from the serendipity of landing a job where eagerness won over experience, to the pivot from redundancy to entrepreneurship—each chapter marking the contours of a life less ordinary.

As we peel back the layers of work-life balance, Charlotte illustrates how she's crafted a family vibe in her business, all while championing community ties and fostering collaborations that extend far beyond The Boundary's beautiful spaces. Her journey is a colorful tapestry of 'blinkinies' and bridal gowns, of joyous community events and the quest for personal fulfillment. Join us for an inspiring listen that offers a peek into the vibrant spirit of an entrepreneur balancing the books and bedtime stories with equal finesse.

Follow The Boundary on Social Media:
FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/theboundaryessex/ / INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/theboundaryessex/

The JobsWorth website is here www.jobs-worth.com

Follow me on LinkedIn; https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnhawker/

Follow me on Instagram; https://www.instagram.com/jobsworthpodcast/

Follow me on TikTok; https://www.tiktok.com/@globaltechcollective

Subscribe to my newsletter 'The Job Journal from GTC'; https://tinyurl.com/TheJobJournalFromGTC

Learn more about my proper job; https://www.globaltechcollective.com/

Contact me using hello@jobs-worth.com

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 2:57 Charlotte's Early Aspirations and Career Guidance
• 6:02 The Journey into Interior Design
• 9:03 Navigating Career Choices and Influences
• 12:03 The Importance of Work Experience
• 15:03 Starting at Zebra and the Reality of the Industry
• 17:56 Facing Redundancy and Career Resilience
• 30:12 Navigating Early Career Challenges
• 34:12 The Journey Back to Zebra
• 37:32 From Wedding Planning to Business Venture
• 40:13 Balancing Motherhood and Career
• 42:12 The Impact of Redundancy
• 46:40 The Stigma of Working Mothers
• 51:04 Transitioning to Entrepreneurship
• 54:04 Finding Balance in Business and Life
• 59:28 Community Impact and Engagement
• 1:01:40 Navigating the Wedding Industry
• 1:04:39 Redefining Success
• 1:10:05 The Importance of Delegation
• 1:12:12 Role Modeling for Future Generations
• 1:19:26 Collaboration and Community Connections

Transcript

0:00

Hello and welcome back to our penultimate Jobsworth ReShare episode. This week I'm going back to a conversation I had with Charlotte de Bonsea, is the owner of Essex-based wedding and events venue, The Boundary. Charlotte's episode came out as part of season two and my focus for that season was trying to work out why Leoncy is such a magnet for creatives, entrepreneurs, business owners that want to set up shop here. I think Charlotte was the first person in the season that had mentioned the word community. and the importance of that when it came to supporting the other businesses, other people around you that were trying to do something for themselves. Without Charlotte, I don't think I would have had nearly as many guests for season two because I think she introduced me to most of them. I feel like Charlotte's story resonated with a lot of people. Her experiences going through college and education, trying to work out what she wanted to do. You will be wowed by her level of confidence to make some of the decisions that she made at a young age to go and pursue what ended up being her dream job in interior design. She talks about redundancy, she talks about how having kids has changed her approach to work. We also talk about why it's okay to admit that not everything you do at work has to be about your children. If you or someone in your life at the moment is in need of bit of inspiration when it comes to thinking about what they want to do next with their career, then I definitely recommend you listen to this one. So as always, if you've got any feedback on this particular episode or the show in general, feel free to get involved in the comments wherever you're listening and stay tuned for our final Jobsworth Re-Show episode coming next week. Big kiss. She was like, sort of legged. Yeah, basically all the lego that she doesn't want in the house and everything. Take all the time you want to get comfortable and I hope you get set up and everything. Welcome to the first episode in the brand new season of Jobsworth. Kicking things off and setting the bar incredibly high this time around is Charlotte de Bonsea, proud owner of Essex-based wedding and events venue, The Boundary. I've known Charlotte for a little over 12 years now, but we've never had the chance to sit down properly and talk about work. It's not really the done thing when you're drunk on coffee patron at house parties. So this was a real eye-opener. We discussed what it was like to forge her own path straight out of school, how she took her future into her own hands whilst working in a well-known high street retailer, and her tenacious approach to dealing with redundancy just months after securing her dream job out of college. You'll come to learn that Charlotte's had a few side hustles over the years, the boundary being one of them. Bubbling away in the background while she made waves in her full-time job in interior design, that all changed after her role with a long-time employer was made redundant in the midst of the pandemic, just months after she became a mum for the first time. We talk about the transition from employee to business owner and now employer, as well as the impact that the arrival of her two daughters has had on her work ethic and the behaviors Charlotte wants to role model for them. So for the first time this season, and without further ado, let me introduce you to the owner of Southend On Sea's premier wedding venue and bikini bedazzler to the stars, trust me, it'll make sense soon, Charlotte de Bond-Sayre. Okay Charlotte, so you've heard this podcast before, so you know that the opening question when we kick things off is sticking around for season two as well. So the opening question is when you were younger, what did you want to be when you grew up? So I've actually thought about this a fair few times whilst listening to it. I think the first one is going to make you laugh. So I'm going to share it with you. So the earliest memory of having a conversation about what I might like to do when I grow up was actually in the car with one of our friends, Nikki, because we grew up together and her mum. So we were young, like junior school, can't remember an age, but junior school. And I remember looking out the window, we driving down a hill and There was so much rubbish everywhere. And I said, when I'm older, I want to tidy all of this up. And I wanted to make the place look nice. OK. And interestingly, Nikki and her mum laughed saying, you want to be a bin man? I guess that's the conclusion you jumped to, yeah. Which wasn't what I wanted, but I just remember thinking I wanted to make it look nice. Okay. Which is a funny thing. Then I don't really remember much else apart from then careers advice at senior school. I was going to ask you about that at some point as well, so go on. Which was a very, you know, odd thing really, because I don't think you're getting very good career advice at that time. They're just where you're going to go after school, right? Yep. And I remember having a conversation with my parents and stuff when I was making those decisions on what you do for your final choices, like what subjects you should do. Mine were all very creative. So dance, art, tech, sewing type thing, and food. So all even though I was actually quite good at the like maps and things I had no interest in it really okay So sitting down with careers advisor and I had two choices. I either wanted to be a chef Or I wanted to be an interior designer This is like end of school so 14 15, okay, I'm one of the younger ones. Hmm. Remember that bit Anyone listening that knows Charlotte, she's one of the younger ones. So I, yeah, that were my two careers. And when I spoke about it with the advisor and we went through things, the actual thing I remember from it was thinking, yeah, but a chef would be a lot of weekend work. I don't want to do that. At the time I was working as a Saturday go and a hairdresser, so I was absolutely sick of working weekends. So yeah, I went down the avenue of interior designer and went into college to do a BTEC in interior design. Wow. That's quite a young age, isn't it? I think when, when I look at what a lot of people went on to do from secondary school, college, and then maybe some career path changes along the way to know at that point that interior design is a route you want to go down and then steer yourself from an educational perspective to follow that. And then we'll talk about you obviously went into a career doing that as well for a, for quite a significant amount of time. That's quite a young age. And I remember speaking to my brother on the podcast about I think he's one of the only people, one of very few people I know that had an indication of what he wanted to do from that sort of point. So that's really interesting. was, so Binperson, let's call it. Very c***ed there. again, that's linked, making something look nice. Again, it's all linking to the interior design thing, slightly different canvas, let's say. But yeah, okay, cool. So. I'm going to ask a bit more about the career advice that you feel you were privy to at the time, because I think we were going through that period in our lives around the same time. think career advice was kind of a little bit too dirty. like men, women, girls, boys, whatever we were classified as at that age, what route are we going to go down? Well, for guys, was probably finance, banking, investment, corporate world, or go off and learn a trade. I don't think that's unfair to say that, but for the most part. And then what in your viewpoint and your experience, what do you think was kind of like the main routes you could go down or being advised to go down? There was a lot of childcare. I always remember that being a big thing. Beauty. And that kind of PA, secretary type vibe. Virtually every person I know I could put into one of those categories went off left school and done one of those. And it was very much, to me, sixth form felt like quite a new thing at the time. Maybe I'm wrong with that, but I knew I definitely didn't want to go to sixth form. I wanted to be an adult. I wasn't an adult by any means. I'm not sure I still am, but the thought of staying in a school environment, not I actually loved school. I had no issues with school, but I was so ready to just go out and explore what else there was to offer. But the advice I don't remember being particularly great. Yeah, was it inspiring was it? I don't think that's ever a word. No I don't remember anyone ever coming into the school to tell us about things, which I'd happily do now. I'd happily go and tell kids what they can do. And when I speak to my nieces and nephews, I think it's always about pushing. You're at a chance when you should just be brave and do a lot. Whereas actually, sadly, I think a lot of kids take the safe route because they're not ready to take it. So often they do say, oh, let's just stay on that. Avenue because it's easy. We're sure what we want to do. I think about this because we've both got young kids and I think about what their future is going to look like and what work will even look like by the time they're having to work. my experience with careers guidance was just so, it was, as I said, like two dimensional, uninspiring. there was no external viewpoint put in front of us. I look at the jobs that people do now. I'm if someone had told me I could do that, I would have fucking gone down that route and not, you know, not maybe, you know, it's pretty basic bitch what I did. I wouldn't have become a personal trainer out of college, you know, that's fairly standard route that lot of people. you now with your leg off this. Yeah, liked to go to the gym and I thought I could make money out of it and a lot of people I think follow I think actually that's having a resurgence now actually a lot of people going back down that route But yeah, it was uninspiring for me, you to be very different for my kids moving forward the reason I asked you about the career guidance and I'm glad you said I didn't want to make the statement that Those careers that you mentioned there for women at the time were the roots that most people went down and we know a lot of the same people and respectfully, we could probably categorize that as being true. But you buck the trend. I was talking to Sophie about this last night, Sophie my behalf and Charlotte's good friend. And you were definitely a trendsetter in that you didn't go down one of those routes. It was more creative path. Were you mindful of that at the time? I guess you wouldn't have even considered that you were. No, I just thought that's what I want to do and there was a course at Southend College that did interior design. But to be honest, I was quite shocked by that. I didn't realise I'd be able to go into, I thought I'd have to do art or I'd have to do something that wasn't so focused on it. I remember going to the college to find out more about the, and this was when it was the old college, so not the... Which I did move to and I did thoroughly enjoy, but the old ones and it was... I just loved it. you, had to break, even though was interior design, I still had to do all of the, we still had to do maths and everything within it. However, it was so creative. Like you were in a studio all the time. and I just thought that's great. And if you didn't turn up one day, they didn't really tell you off. So not that I did, but I loved the freedom of that. were an adult to choose it. And I think that's what I find hard with people who don't know what they want to do. I mean, I don't do that career now, so I have gone off path. However, rather than going to a college and doing just A levels, where you don't really have a path, I think because I did, I was so passionate about it, so I turned up to the class and I turned up and done what I needed to do. Whereas maybe if I didn't know quite what I wanted to do, I'd have no drive to get there, but I knew where I wanted to go. I don't know how, but I did. That's brilliant. think, and I'll ask you about maybe what shaped that direction that you very clearly had. You're basically, the converse to your experience was mine. I didn't know what I to do. I went to college on the back of doing really well at GCSEs, like A's and B's across the board. Anyone would have said, John's going to do really well at college. And that freedom, I just abused it. Oh, you're not going to tell me off if I don't turn up to a lesson? Well, I'll sit in a canteen and play cards all day. Or I'll... I, you know, especially when we tipped 18, I was going to talk on a Thursday night. like, remember going into my A level exam, like being sick out of a car window. That's how, yeah, that's classy, isn't it? But that's how I, but I had no direction. I was doing history and all these things that I enjoyed day to day, but I didn't know what I wanted to do longer term. So I think that direction is really important. Do you, any inspiration in your life that sort of led you down that path? So my mum is a soft furnishing and curtain maker. She's very talented and very creative. So definitely mum. And then my dad has been a huge influence in my life, but yeah, not from a creative, but very businessman type. So yeah, I suppose from my mum, was always very creative in our house. Like, yeah, we had a beautiful house as well. think that helps having those creative, and I'm talking from experience, having creative influences around you. Like my mum to this day is still, I think, just quietly disappointed that I haven't followed a creative path for what I do for a living. I know, but Lego's a little bit too, yeah, I it's a bit too formulaic for my mum. If you gave her that Lego set, it would turn into like a flower pot or something. But yeah, I think having creativity, around you helps breed that and maybe give you a bit more freedom to think I could make a living from doing this. my mum worked for herself, which I think has been a big factor. Yeah. And what about your dad? Did your dad work for himself? Was he self-employed? Various. My poor dad had, I'd have to ask my mum to be sure, but I think he was made redundant five or six times. But he was a sales manager, so he'd worked for various different companies and then he'd do a bit of work for himself. But he was a grafter. And if he was ever out of work, he was working, painting and decorating or doing something. He was hands on. Him and my mum had done up houses together. He could turn his hand to anything. which I suppose is where my attitude of, I'll give it a go. It's worth it. Let me read about it. Let me figure out how to do this. Sometimes a bit too independent for my own good sometimes. But it's a great, I think that ethic then and that drive has obviously rubbed off and I think that's a really lovely thing. I wish I had more of that, like that ability to be a bit more of a self-starter to think I could do that rather than just fall to the default of, I'm probably just going to pay someone. Yeah, I very much dislike paying people to do something. And especially if I do pay someone and they do it badly, that's even more... yeah, for sure, for sure. Okay. So you do interior design at Seek. Is it called Seek there? Yeah. You then went to the University of Essex. did. So college and then University of Essex. Yeah, so I always knew, that's one thing I always knew, that I wanted to go to university. Very strange, no one around me had ever gone to university, but I was very like, I want to go off to university. What was it about it? Can you remember at a time? I think I loved the idea of moving away and having that whole university lifestyle. I loved the idea of the independence. I don't know, and I always knew to get anywhere into design, I needed a degree. the credentials of having a degree. know enough from college. College was like a real ease into it. There was so much more technical that I needed to know, which was degree. And at this stage I was even thinking I'd definitely do my masters. I was so into, I didn't do my masters. But I definitely wanted to go to university. So finished the course at Southend and then applied for lots of different universities, went to visit them all. my poor parents took me to here, there and everywhere, had in my head that I'd go to Brighton or a London university. But actually every university course is different, which is something I didn't really know until looking into that. And actually the course I liked most was at Southend, staying here, which kind of, away university life scuppered by actually based on its merit. This was the best one. And equally, think another, that was the main factor. But then when I weighed up pros and cons, so I would save a lot of money staying here in terms of like that student loan that went on forever. And then I could live at home, but equally I already had jobs down here. So throughout my time working at college, I worked at Topshop in the high road for a long time. And I knew that I could stay working there. And then I also got a job at Varsity, which was a very hip... name dropping some places now yeah okay yeah dancing on the bar and all sorts. And I knew that if I stayed here, then I could keep doing that and keep up with my friends who had all gone out to get jobs by this point. Okay, right. So I think I was the only one who went on to university. I think I'm pretty sure. Yeah. I had to, I wanted to keep up. I wanted to go on all the things. I was working. Yeah. All holidays, all the days out. So yeah, I continued here. and stayed at home, didn't rack up as much debt and loved the course actually. out of it with the degree that you thought would be or you hoped would be the stepping stone you needed to get the job you wanted? Yeah. Did it prove to be what you thought it was going to be? Yes, actually. when I say interior design, a lot of people I know will still be listening and thinking that that means paint colors and texture. It's definitely that stigma attached to it, it? Yeah. Change of rooms. Yes, which I was a massive fan. Yeah, loved it. But that actually wasn't the sort of interior design I was into. Maybe that's what I thought originally. I loved picking paint colours. However, what I was very interested in was space planning. So very like a puzzle really, get everything to fit and how was the cleverest way to do that. And so through working in Topshop, I realized I'd quite like to design these shops. I kept, you know, within that job, we'd always be moving things around. We'd always be, you know, always changing things. It wasn't about window displays and how things looked. It was just about how to move things and get the best people moving through the store and people buying and such like. So we were due to have a refurb at Topshop Southend. and like a team of people come down, I thought, I need to talk to these. So clocked someone at some point and said, I really want to do, this is what I do. I'm interior designer college. Where do you work? Can I come and work for you? Can I do some work experience? Now my course that I did didn't have to have work experience, which I really feel work experience is what everyone should be doing. Get in there. I spent so much time getting in touch with this company. I didn't need to, but I wanted to. He eventually put me in touch with the right company and they, they contacted me and said, yeah, come and talk to us. So went up to London with my portfolio that was like meaningless at that point. And I've never been so nervous in all my life, I don't think. And sat there and basically begged them to give me a chance to like have a go. So they took me on for free work experience. I'm not even sure if you're allowed to do that anymore, but I was absolutely happy with it. And they even said they'd pay my train fare. So was ecstatic. And I'd done it for about a month, I think. And so took the time off. college, a university at this time and done a month with them off my own back. And I basically spent a month reorganizing their filing system, but I got exposure to what a company does. They took me to the odd meeting that they knew they could get away with. Okay. Client meetings. I just had to sit there and be quiet. Yeah. But they, the company was retail design. So it was lots of top, they worked for the whole Arcadia clientele. So all of those brands. along with lots of others and I loved it. I loved the people there. I absolutely loved it. So that was a month. Went back to university, stayed in contact with them because I'd like, you know, gone with them. The day I finished university, they offered me a job to go and work. So then I went to work there. This is it. This is Ebbah. Yeah. So I went to work for them. I think I'm pretty sure I started with them on my 21st birthday. So just after finishing uni and I remember not telling them because I didn't want to make a fuss about it being my birthday and then they found out and it was like really cringey. yeah, I started work for them. So it was like I got the, it was the dream I want. That was the career I wanted. That was a company I wanted to work for and I couldn't believe I'd suddenly landed there. You've gone from 14, 15 kind of falling on interior design as a path that you wanted to go down. You kind of made that your direction, your North Star, and then you've fresh out of university with a job for them. And it sounds like you went about it like in a really pragmatic and proactive way. You say you lack, you lacked confidence going to the interview and everything. It takes some confidence to go up to someone and say, I'd like to be doing what you're doing. is it... I mean you've got to back yourself in that way. It was a while ago, let's say, but do you remember being nervous about making that initial approach and saying I'd love to be doing what Yeah, but I knew that was my only chance. Not my only chance, but I knew that that window was there. And I think that's still how I live to this day that I think, just ask what's the worst that can happen. All that person can do is say no. And actually most people, if someone came up to me today and asked for work experience and had like the right, you know, reason to, I'd be like, come on then. I don't think you can do it as easily as you used to be able to do then. I don't know. Yeah, they took a chance on me and it was great. Yeah. Interestingly, when they did take me on, I will say this fact. So they did, I did go up there for an interview actually. So maybe I'm going to backtrack on that a little bit. It didn't just get given a job. did go up for an interview. However, they said to me afterwards, you weren't the best person for the job, but we like you the most and we know we can train you. Okay. So I think from that, people had better portfolios than me and maybe were stronger. at things. However, they were prepared to take a chance on me due to that I'd worked with them before, they knew I was eager and it worked because I then worked with them. Amazing it goes a long way doesn't it? I people fit culture I talk about culture fit all the time But I think that that should play as an important part in hiring decisions as someone having a really strong point Definitely and my time at zebra that was always what I was Shouting about when we were hiring. Yeah was let's get someone who fits the team was we were back It's a massive company and they still are they're doing very well today. Yeah But they we were small really in the office and if you put someone in that doesn't fit it can ruin the whole why you work and how you then look to clients and how actually if you get the right fit, you can teach them a lot. So yeah, that was a big thing that I always and now still in my own business that is about getting the right fit. Yeah, because I think holistically all the puzzle pieces need to come together. And I always say when I'm advising my clients, you don't need clones of other people, but you need needs to complement each other. And if you have someone that, and I guess in your, in that line of work, you're going to get some people that, you know, I think creatives again, stigma attached to creative people. There's just a whole spectrum, let's say. Yeah, definitely. Because you've got that really creative, which can't do anything more project based. And using I'm a creative as an excuse for why they can't do that is fine, but maybe not in a setup where actually we've got deadlines, we've got stakeholders, we've got people paying our budgets, all these things, it's not ideal. And if you're doing what we done, retail design, you're just moving that design into other spaces. It's not going to be new every time. So it was a lot more just planning spaces rather than like designing as in changing. Understood. I was going to ask you a question based on your actual experience of doing that month. So two things on that. If a work placement wasn't part of your degree, did you do that? Was that in the summer? No, I just said I'm going to do this. That's the thing about uni is it's your learning, right? It's more even more so than college, I would say. I didn't go to uni but I've heard. So you're paying for it. So if you don't go, that's your loss. I remember saying to my parents, I really want to do this. And they were like, yeah, definitely go and do it. So I just had to take time off. I think a little bit of it was over some holidays and then the rest was just out and I just had to catch up. Cool. Okay, well that's amazing. Just again, that quality and you'd say, I'm going to do this. I think that's great. And probably a good lesson for a lot of people. Like if the course you're doing doesn't require you to do a placement in industry, then actually that's going to be a really powerful thing, both for knowledge and experience, but also the opportunities that can give you. Yeah, I definitely think to see what the real world was like because I Can always see it work of always can seem so glamorous whereas actually it's just like we didn't even have a very creative office It was quite dingy and yeah, I actually loved the job. So, you know, could suck that So in your experience though, in the month that you're doing it, a lot of back office, lot of admin, lot of filing stuff. This is where I think, I'm going to sound really old, but I think generationally now, I don't know how many people at university age that would go to do something like that, have that experience and still be enthusiastic to go into it. don't know. Yeah, it's changed, hasn't it? Yeah, think definitely now people would expect to be doing the glamour and not doing the... And probably wouldn't last the month if they felt that were doing the first week we spent filing back office, make the teas. Yeah, literally, I made a lot of tea in that time and carried on making a lot of tea when I went back there. Maybe that's why they hired me. Maybe I was really good at making I think that was a socially acceptable thing you earn your stripes when I started in recruitment all I did if any time make up a take all right yeah was to They busy all the time. They were all sweating for deadlines and I was just filing and, but I was learning all the time. If they would give me an opportunity, I would jump on it. If they would say, do you want to come along to this meeting? Yep. Okay. you want to, know, can you do like anything they would offer me? I wanted to learn it. I wanted to get it as quick as I could. Again, that kind of lends itself to this narrative that sounds like quite a glib thing to say, but saying yes and grabbing opportunities is still really powerful. Like so many people go, well, you're lucky if you get those opportunities, but half of it is you've said yes to one previously that leads you to that one. Yeah, my whole career is from very random yeses along the way, I would say. Yeah, I think it's brilliant. So when you start at Zebra, in your mind, you've made it in terms of you've got to a job that you wanted to do. Do you see when you start at Zebra, this is at least the industry I'm going to be in forever? Sadly, I was thinking this company is where I am forever. I was obsessed, I would say. I loved what I doing. I thought, yeah, I could see people doing the job that I wanted to do. So I was like a junior. Then I actually got, whilst being a junior, and I don't know, this might not be on my LinkedIn and things, I actually got made redundant from there. Right. I did see a gap. Yeah. So in 2009, I got made redundant from this. hadn't even been there long. Okay. But it was the financial crisis, wasn't it? heard there was one man there, not that I would have been privy to it. Okay, so yeah, bad it was. We lost all our work and everything. And they were clever and they were really honest with it. And they said, we've got to strip this company right down. And I begged to keep my job because I thought this is, I've got no chance. These people will go out and get jobs because they'll go for lower paid jobs. I'm at the bottom. I can't go, they're not going to take me on to do a higher role when they can get someone who's already from a higher position willing to take. Because they're losing their homes, losing, you know, they've got families. I'm just 22 living at home with my parents. I can go and pick up a job doing something else. And I even remember emailing my boss at the time, just a really begging email to stay saying, look, I'll even work on a, you know, even a reduced salary or I'll work less days. Cause I thought if this comes off my CV, I'm not getting back out here. I'm not getting back in. They wouldn't accept it, which I think is a good thing. They didn't, you know, they were like, come on Charlotte, that's not real. We need, we haven't even got work to give you even if you stay. They always said they'd keep in touch, which they did. Thankfully, I was very good friends with one of my old tutors from college who was great. Incredible he is. And he's been creative director for many companies now. He left the teaching. And he was nearly, maybe he was, sorry Dan, if I'm getting this wrong, but creative director for Universal. Yeah. And he managed to get me a job because we were good friends and he helped me out. So during my gap from Zebra, I was working at, back at Varsity, went begging for my job back, worked at various nightclubs and whatever else. I think I even went back to Topshop for a little bit. But I went to work for him and it was on a contract to design a flat in Cannes for the MIPCOM. Yeah, so they would have after parties at a flat. At that time they were advertising a program called Haven, which I think even ran for quite a few series. It was based on a Stephen King novel thing. So I had to design the flat for the after party, which had to have like props way out of my comfort zone. What a brief though. Yeah. Like did you feel like you'd landed on your feet at Yeah. but I'll be honest, had no idea what I was doing. Okay. Right. So I had to plan a party, not that didn't plan it. But I had to plan a party for a load of like few celebrities at that time in those programs and a load of bigwigs from TV companies. But I had to be as part of these programs. Right. So that's what I did for a little while. I think it was about six months. Went out to Cannes for the party. Yeah, it's like a whole blur and it's incredible, but it kept me going in my design years. Yeah, because there's a as you say the fear is that you're be out in the cold Who's gonna want to take you on very little experience? You've got other people that being letting go probably in that industry in droves as you say willing to take hits to pay for maybe slightly more responsibilities at that time So that's amazing. That's incredible. I never knew that brief what a brief to be given. Yeah, it's scary. I'd imagine We turned the swimming pool red to look like blood. had like proper designers making things. It was like a photo booth with all rocks and stuff and we had loads of photos in it. Yeah, it's a bit of a blur now. We had a crime scene because it was like a crime drama. Yeah, crazy. Absolutely crazy. That's amazing. So go on then, that's a hiatus from Zebra. How did they come back around? What happened? I kept going. I didn't leave him alone. So I would email them, can I come up? Should we go out for lunch? Because we were friends by that point. And Glenn, my director at that time, who I still loved to pieces. He, and he was the one who gave me all these leg ups, I would say. Okay. He got me back in. I worked on different clients. I went back into work on Tesco's on a temporary contract because they had a bit of work come in. So that was 2011. Yep. And then I just, well, I was on like a contract, so I'd be like three months, they'd extend it for another three months. And I'd be like, come on. And then eventually got back in and then a little while later became a design manager of Arcadia, which is what I wanted the whole time. So back on my client. And at that point started traveling with them, which was where, what I loved. So my main role was designing Topshop, Topman and all the other Arcadia brands around the world. So I to like 26 countries with them. Yeah, how long were you managing the Arcadia account? For the whole time I was there, so virtually. So when I was back then it was like nine years. Right, okay. Just shy of 10 years. Yeah, that is crazy. So you've gone from this chance encounter, this opportunity you've seen, this window of opportunity, while you're working in a top shop to have this conversation to then be doing exactly what you probably had the flashing image in your brain at that point. You're doing it and you're doing it for a decade and all thereabouts. That's madness, isn't it? Yeah. Okay, so then we hit the point where that stops. Yeah, did that come about? Well, there's a little bit of transition here because so Sorry, you take me through the chronology because I think looking at this maybe, because we're here to talk about your current business and your current venture and what it is you do now, but I love the backstory. It all builds up this really amazing foundation. So in 2016, 2017 maybe. My now husband proposed. So, Dean proposed and we started looking at wedding venues and being a creative, I didn't like anywhere and always had a vision that it had to be somewhere that I could put my stamp on it. And I really wanted a really flexible space, wanted everyone to be together and equally wanted really good food, which a lot of venues are terrible food because they can get away with it. My next door neighbor who I've grown up with is an incredible chef. And I always said, if I ever got married, he'd have to do the food. So we went down the avenue of getting married at a church and we would need to pop a marquee up somewhere to have our reception in, which obviously is What a madness. And it gets madder. So we've got a few sort of family friends and asked them if they knew of any land I could put a marquee up in for our wedding. Temporary, very temporary. And one of my mum's friends, my parents' friends, suppose, said, yeah, I have actually, but it's a business, not just a wedding. I'll meet up with Charlotte and have a chat. Anyway, just started having chats about. putting a marquee up on the edge of a cricket field. For my wedding, that's all I wanted. One wedding, Clive, who is the family friend, had other ideas. It's madness really. So I'm working at Zebra and in the background I am designing a wedding venue. at this stage for your own wedding. For my own wedding, knowing it would stay for more events, didn't really realise it was my business. Right? That's an interesting transition. Yeah, I mean, still not sure it even makes sense. So I mean, we used to meet in the Hamlet pub, go through drawings. I had no idea how this was sort of being paid for and things like that. Obviously, I was paying for my wedding, but there was parts of it which I was thinking, well, I don't need to pay. I don't need that for my wedding. Anyway, as the conversations went on, my friend Jack, who is my business partner, was traveling with his now wife. And it was his dad who was kind of helping us with the meetings and he's an accountant. So he was kind of like overseeing it. And basically there was a, maybe I've just forgotten the conversations, but Clive and Ian were meeting about this with me. And the idea was that it would become me and Jack's business. So we had some financial backing from family friends. Jack basically landed on a plane, was told this idea and do you want to go for it? Yes or no. and thought, yes, we'll go for it. We all then got together and then it was intense up until our wedding of not only like, obviously in my head, I just want my wedding to go well, but equally I'm thinking long-term, which is crazy of like, and how will we advertise that to other people? And then trying to advertise a venue that wasn't even made or finished or photos of or what happened. Trusted the process. It was always a side hustle to me, however, at this point. because you're still doing the job of your dreams the job that you I no plans to give that up ever. And I don't think I would have. really don't think I would have. I didn't tell Zebra that I was doing this in the background because it didn't, it wasn't a conflict of interest. wasn't anything. And I wasn't really still sure whether it was mine or not or how it was going to work or what was going to happen. So anyway, it just bubbled in the background. And then we got married. went well, we had a few more bookings after that, slow, but obviously it was just, you know, that's the idea. Jack was still working at his job in London as well. So we, you know, we could fit around that, take time off when we needed to to do other things. And then in 2018, I had a baby. No, 2019, I had a baby. Got married in 2018 and then in 2019 had Nora. So I was on a year maternity. Well, I never intended to take a year actually. I was very much like, I will be off for minimal time. I want to come back. I did not want to lose my position in my job. And one thing with that job was there was not any other women in the business that had young children that went back to work full time. And I was adamant I was going back full time. almost a precedent there. Anyone who had a baby was kind of then part-time from then on. Yeah, there wasn't many women at the top. Okay. And I don't want that to sound bad, but it's true. it's a fact, then it's a fact. So I did know that it would affect me, but I was adamant I'd make it work. Didn't know how I was going to make it but did. Thankfully Dean's parents are child minders, so that was going to help a lot and does help me a lot to this day. So had all plans to go back and then during that time COVID hit. So I did not go back to what ever at that point. to going back to my job properly because we hadn't, all the clients had dried up. They weren't opening top shops. weren't like everyone was not doing anything. So there was no business. So I was put on furlough. and then eventually went back. They'd made a huge amount of redundancies and it was just, I was skipping back a little bit, sorry. So I was made associate director before I'd had a baby. So I was already up there, you know, in the more senior part of the business. they'd basically made a lot of the rest of the team redundant because they had no business and it was COVID and they just had to shut down and they could sub it out to our other offices to make it work where there wasn't so many issues. And then we, you know, I was still part of it and I was doing like going back one or two days a week and we were closing down our London office because it wasn't just not financially viable to keep that office. Again, I was desperate to keep my job. There was no part of me that wanted to be made redundant from that job. And they'd kind of, in enough ways, told me that I was safe because they'd made their cuts, but things kept getting worse. And then I got made redundant and I was devastated. Even though I had a side hustle, that side hustle was basically non-existent because COVID had hit. So there was no business there anyway. I didn't know that that was going to become anything. And I really took it hard. Like that was basically my whole career. How old's Nora at this stage? One. So you've been on that journey which is life changing enough to then have what you feel is your future completely shattered. Is it too big a thing to say like No, I was devastated and I took it really, really hard. how did that manifest itself? Is that just, I guess at that point you've got no recourse, have you? It's not like you're, you can't email them. You're not, like what you did. Yeah, I can't, mean, well, interestingly, it's strange because that company was like my family and I very much, we always used to say like, it's a zebra family. I'd grown up there. I'd gone through all deals there. So in 2014, I lost my dad and they were a great comfort to me. They really looked after me. Some of my directors had gone through the same. So we all looked after each other. And, you know, I'd grown up with them from Like they met me when I was 19. then I was, so how many years ago was that? I was like 32. We've seen you through various milestones haven't they? life events, losing your dad, getting married, know, your daughter being born. I'm sure at that point, you know, that's a huge thing. Yeah. You are part of this. Yeah. I'll make no bones that when people say family, I think if it's all a positive thing, that's great. So you're part of this family and they've seen you go through all these. However, I think a big learning for myself now is it wasn't. And that's an illusion that a lot of companies can make you feel like to stop you getting the bigger pay rises to leave in. I felt so much comfort there. Yeah. That I always had to fight to be promoted or to have a pay rise. And actually that's not always right. You know, if you're doing the job and you're good at it, letting like by believing that this is such a family, you're doing it for the good. You're not, you're lining someone else's pocket at the end of the day. Yeah. And that's something I've learned now because since being made redundant, have not heard from them. Right. Yeah. So you go from being quite an important member of the team to them. Also the redundancy didn't go quite to plan. There was money issues. There was, you know, arguments over how things should be paid and not paid and They'd talked me into taking holiday that shouldn't have happened. So it got messy. self-serving from their perspective. I get it, they're a business, but for me that was heartbreaking because that wasn't the way I'd led to believe. And you've been there for 10 years by this point. So you haven't had experience of going through that process before. So I think sometimes there's a benefit in, I think now seeing people when I'm career advice or giving career advice, sharing it with people that are fresh grads in their first role, I would never advise someone to stay in the same business for 10 years. It happens. Don't get me wrong. And I think your experience that you had up to that point is a really positive one, which is great, but you run the risk of exactly that. being taken for granted, being undervalued, being seen as being institutionalized because you've only done what you've done in one organization too. So it sounds then like that whole decade long experience has been tarnished slightly by the way it ended. Slightly, a lot, whatever that is. that's a real shame. The point that you made about this precedent being set that most I think it's really important topic to just come back to. Most of the women that had babies went back part time or not. How much was it an intrinsic drive in you that you wanted to go back to work? And how much was it that pressure of, I don't go back, I'm not going to get the progression, the development where I want to get to on my career because that be how it's viewed. I would have always said before having a baby, I'd always go back to work full time. I had no desire to, I love my kids with all my heart, but and still to this day, I have no desire to be a full time mom and not work. I'm very, I love working. I like achieving. like, you know. For yourself? Yeah, for myself. That's just what I'm driven by. So yeah, I think. There was obviously both elements, but it wasn't just all because I didn't think I'd get my role. There was me. I put that on them to say that that was all driven that way. It was me. yeah, I loved working. going to make a statement and thank you for saying that you love working and you do it for you. Cause I'm going to make a statement. Like when I, when I became a parent, I see this transition with a lot of friends and a lot of colleagues and they have kids and they say it's all about my kids. And I don't know how honest that is half the time because I work to provide for my family, but I also do it for me. I've got very, I'm very self-centered in that I have these things that I want to achieve. And the podcast is like an ego thing in a way. I'm not. too proud to bring it up. It's something I wanted to do. I'm not doing the podcast for my family. The podcast actually takes me away from my family sometimes. I come in record on weekends and weeknights, but it's my intrinsic drive. I want to achieve stuff. You seem very open and transparent enough to say, want to do it for me. Do you think it's a stigma around some parents that are just open enough to admit that? Yeah, yeah, think some people, everyone will say, I just need to work for my family or I to be at home with my family. I think you've just got to do what's right for you. And for me, I wouldn't be a good parent if I didn't work. I wouldn't be that parent. Because you're not fulfilling that part of yourself, are you? Yeah. Yeah, it doesn't give me enough, like a certain aspect, not like it couldn't give me, just that work is something completely different. It's for me, I love, you know, I don't forget I've got a family at home, but it can just be me. Yes, yeah. dependence. Like one of the first things I say to Sophie is like one of the most liberating thing of not being with my kids is just walking at a normal pace. Yeah. Like even that is a small win sometimes, but then when you come into work and yeah, can, it's compartmentalization, isn't it? It's being able to separate these different facets of your life. And the only reason I raise it is because I think in some circles of even close friends, I feel bad for saying that because I know that there will be a degree of judgment. everyone, but there are pockets that would look at you and go, is that what you think? And it might be frowned upon, but I think you get it in a lot of circumstances. since having the boundary, I've had quite a lot of comments made to me by just people, like literally someone's auntie at a wedding or something. When I've been heavily pregnant with one of my children and they're like, cool, you shouldn't be at work, should you? I'm pregnant, not ill. I'm not doing anything to cause this baby a problem. I'm just working. And I've had people who had seen me pregnant maybe at a meeting earlier on and then I've obviously had the baby. And they've been like, you're not home with your children. I think, no, but they're with their dad who is at work the other days of the week. I'm at work today. I think it's great that actually our works cross over. So they're actually there with a parent most of the time. Maybe not both of us, but they're with one of us or a family member. Not, not, there's nothing wrong with people going to child minders, by the way. I just mean that the way I get, a man does not get that comment. Oh, is your kid's missing you? Absolutely not. They wouldn't even mention their children. Where for a woman, you do get a lot more comments about working. Yeah, I completely agree with that. I'm to talk to you about the sort of role model and whether you're mindful of this role model part you're playing for your daughters as well in a little bit. because I think it's amazing, but you'll probably be modest. so, so the redundancy happens. come to terms with, you know, dark place. Now we're transitioning into, into the boundary side hustle to now full time up and running. It's your business. It's. Yeah. So we're up and running by this point. We've done quite, you know, we've done events. Yeah. my, we're obviously during COVID. So that was tough because we were closed for 18 months. Everything we had booked in had to move, which was already a challenge to deal with people. but I, I don't even remember the point, but something happened that I thought, right, I've got to go whole hog at this now. I'm going to make it work. And this is, what was meant to happen. I don't like to say that everything happens for a reason, but you know, there's an element of you've got to trust where you're at and go with it rather than always trying to like force something else. So yeah, I put everything then into driving the boundary into a business, which it is now. What an incredible achievement. And I guess so much of the skills and experience you've picked up, there's so many crossovers. So much was transferable. Yeah. much I do today in my day to day, I've learned from past things that I've done. either through Zebra in like a management point of view of managing a project, managing something to happen, managing people as well. From even my early days in Topshop and things like that of just customer service and dealing with so many emotions of people. Yeah. But somehow I can do it and I can work with these people and I find it enjoyable. What's the biggest learning curve for you? What's the one thing that your time at Zebra, your time at Topshop, any part of your earlier career just didn't prepare you for? balance of running your own business. yeah. It's funny enough, that's going to be my next point. So at Zebra, I would always work long hours for no, you don't get overtime in those sort of businesses, right? So there's an element though, you go home at the weekend and you do get a weekend, yeah. You might think about a project or something, but obviously there's an element that is not fully your responsibility, is If it's for a company. Whereas when you work for yourself, your brain never ever turns off. It's... so full on, which is an element that I do love and something that I did want to bring up on this, that I think one of the best things I've found out that I really enjoy is sort of collaboration and working with people I already know. And there's always like, well, that could be a thing. What could we do together? Something that a lot of people hate about living around here is that everyone knows everyone. I love it because I just think, well, that's just another connection to get you somewhere. So I love that part of it, but it means I can't go out for dinner without seeing someone and thinking, yeah, I should talk to them about that. Or, you know, I pop into a coffee shop and I see someone and I think, that's someone I should talk to. But it never stops. that's, you know, the emails keep coming, the calls keep coming. There's an event on, it's always happening. And did you have a perception of what getting a balance might be like when you did start doing it? Did you think there's this glamourized view of running your own business, isn't there? And probably even more so in the kind of world that you're operating in, this glamourized view of I'm a business owner, I'm running this very successful events venue and this is all smooth sailing, but actually, how did it weigh up? Were you quite a realist? in seeing the challenges that might present themselves anyway. Yeah, I mean, I've always been used to doing a lot. And I think like even when I first worked at Zebra, It sounds like you used to spin in some plates. Yeah So I'm used to that. I'm used to just trying to get everything done. I don't think I ever realised it would be this intense. However, I try to see the beauty in it all the time because I could make, I could just put the kids to a childminder and have more time to work. And then maybe I'd have more downtime. However, because I want to try and do the school drop off, not have my kids always in, like I like to see them and spend time with them that. That's the sacrifice I've decided to make. So I do work evenings. I do might work weekends, but it's so that I can do what I want in the week. So I have found my balance, I think. I've still got to work on it. There's still always room for improvement. It evolves doesn't it as well I think over time. But I'm learning to see the beauty in what I'm doing. mean, half term coming up and knowing I can just say I'm unavailable that week is amazing. When I can see other friends struggling with how on earth am going to get childcare for them for a week when I've got to work or I've got to take holiday. That's just, it's mean. I completely agree. I mean, I sometimes I moan about work and the stresses, but then I think actually work life balance is a huge thing for me. It's why I set up the business in the first place. So I'd have a better one. And if I zoomed in on a week. is so much worse. If I zoomed out and looked over maybe a month for a three month period, actually I've got so much more autonomy than I've ever had to do what I want to do and having children, that's really important. It would be so hard to give it up now. I could never see myself going back to that traditional employment of being managed and being told, can you sign off on my... And that's people's reality. But for me I just can't feel that I could go back to everything so like I might make a decision on that week of how that week needs to change. Yes. Yeah. And it's your decision to make. I think that's the sacrifice though, isn't it? We are making, we sacrifice certain elements of it to get others. And yeah, I don't know, the perception versus reality is very different, but ultimately, and you also, like you could get another job in design. You could get another job doing what you were doing with Zebra. But you've chosen now to embrace this and all the shit that comes with it, and all the stress and everything else. Just like having all my friends there for a party. No, I like, I get so much more fulfilment in this job than I ever have in Zebra. And that's nothing against Zebra, just maybe I didn't really realise who I was. I think I was obviously trying to break some things at that time. It wasn't everything I wanted, but I thought it was. Whereas now, I love the... the excitement. So I'd finish a project at Zebra and get a slight bit of, and then another one would land on your desk. Whereas every wedding, every event from a small corporate meeting to a massive wedding, I get the same buzz knowing when I get that review through saying how amazing they've had. you know, some people say this is the biggest day of their lives. I'm so happy that we can help with that. And it's, yeah, that bit I can't. And it's that really tangible part that you've played in that whole experience for that couple. Talk to me a little bit, because I know you diversified slightly. In your head, was it always weddings? Was it a wedding venue rather than more broadly an events venue? Or was events something that came, an evolution of how you could maybe make the most of that space? No, was always to be a flexible venue. the land it's on, which we rent off of is a community interest company. So it's a trust. there's no one profiting at the top of all of this as such. So it was, we do have to do a lot of things throughout the year for charities. We do a lot of giving back, which makes it all feel better anyway. So yeah, it was always going to be different stuff. And we have done so many different things. Sometimes we just laugh when things come in. Okay, weddings one day and vegan fairs the next. Like we've literally done. diverse. Yeah. And I absolutely love it though, because I just think if we can be a space locally that can help the community, then that's great. I want it to be a community project rather than a big Everyone always says weddings have got so much money attached to them. We're actually very reasonable on things, so it's more about we want to help people than... Yeah, yeah, understood. think the whole community thing and seeing the work that you do impact local communities really important, especially around here. And one of the last questions I'm going to ask you is around Lee and Southend, but I'm not going to jump the gun and do that. But that's a really good thing. I think that's what keeps you engaged for longer. Thinking about the impact you're having beyond just revenue generation and money coming in and how much you're taking home. Like you need to think of more broadly the... Yeah, how you're impacting the people and the community around you. That's what the grounds over there. So there's, it's called wellbeing at Garen Park. Okay. And there is schools that come over, there's kids that have been removed from schools, come and do work over there. There's a welcome to the UK groups over there. Amazing. And we help with lots of these things. We've given our space to them for have their dinners. We've given space to do like when during COVID, when they could use marquees, they used our space when we couldn't use it. You know, as much as we can, we are made to get involved with this, whether we like it or not, but we're very happy to get involved with it. makes us feel a lot better about what we're doing on day-to-day basis. So the whole grounds over there are really interesting for what else can be happening. I mean, I've only ever gone to that part of the venue when there is a wedding and I've been to a few weddings now. lovely wedding. Exactly. Yeah. I never get one of those cards that you can stamp though when that's coming in. But you can see there's a real investment. is a very like a community feel to it. And I know that there's the allotment patches and the gardens there as well, which is amazing. Yeah. When you see that continued investment in. tree planting coming up. You love a bit of gardening, right? I do! Yeah, brilliant! to get involved. right. Why not? Yeah, I'll put a call to action out on here as well. We'll see if we can get some numbers I'm gonna talk to you about wedding the wedding industry because I know it's I know it's a sort of multi event venue Yeah, weddings they've got this obviously very clear perception that it's high pressure high emotion You know as you said this is the things cross the only time that people gonna go for this experience ever How do you deal do you deal and then how do you deal with that heightened emotion? And have you got any anecdotes from having to deal with particular? do think we attract a different type of bride and groom. I'm going put it out there. I've had a groomzilla, one of our friends. I'm only joking. I'm just, my mind's racing. All right. Yeah. I could think of that. Yeah. it up. Well, it's not Dexter and it's not D. No, Plan Shane. So yeah, no, I think we attract people who understand we're slightly different. I'm not saying we're mega alternative. We are just a way more relaxed vibe. So yeah, there is emotions and things that come with weddings, but I don't feel like we get a lot of it. We get a bit of the worry at the end, like A couple of weeks before anyone's wedding. And that's why my summer is so intense because that's when the make, like I try and do a lot of the prep work before then. So I'm having final meetings with people a lot earlier than, however, there's going to be that worry in the lead up. And that's when my inbox goes crazy. My phone goes crazy. And I just have to keep calm because if I react to anything, it will only make things worse. I don't know how I'm good at dealing with people, but I am somehow. think, I mean, all my reviews say that I'm great at it. But somehow I can just keep the situation calm. My dad was that person though. He was very calm in any situation. And thankfully I think that's a trait that I've got from him. So even though I might not be feeling that inside, I can hopefully make a lot of other people feel calm around me. I don't know if that answers it, but I just think we don't get those brides and grooms. And I think that's brilliant from you on a personal level. That's a great experience to have had thus far as well. And I hope it continues for you. that's, yeah, that is really good to hear. And yeah, my experience of ever being around you when you are literally running around those events or driving a golf cart around with people in the back of it, trying to get to different parts of that venue. Yeah. You always like a vision of calm. So that's good. Even if internally you're going mad inside. Where's the tequila? Exactly. Yeah, exactly. How did, okay, so you come from, I'm gonna backtrack slightly. So Zebra, you had one version of what maybe success looked like for you then. And in terms of career paths, you'd hit it. Success, I guess higher up the rung to go or higher up more rungs up the ladder to climb. But you were on that path to what you would have said was success. I was hitting every goal that I wanted. I wanted to be a social director. I was gunning for director. Which is silly because now when I look back box checking wouldn't be my thing but at the time that was what I wanted and that's the way I could see myself growing was I want to be the next thing. Yeah, so the question I was going to ask you, and it's quite broad, but how has your definition of what success looks like now changed? definitely changed. So then it was a title and a salary. Oh, I bet you see this all the time, so that's all right, I can say it you. Yeah, I just wanted the next biggest salary and the next title I could have. And the stuff that come with it, I did love my job, I must say. I really enjoyed what I did. So it wasn't just for that, but I believed in what I was doing. However, now... You know, I find it odd to say to people I own a wedding venue or I own an events venue. To me, don't know. I do get a bit of imposter syndrome. Not sure what I'm in, like feel that. But success now is knowing that I'm comfortable. I've been able to create something that I can earn money from. But I enjoy it. Like the enjoyment. I thought I enjoyed my past job. I love this job. There is bits I'm thinking, gosh. But get z- Yeah, I'm learning. And this year is going to be that year more so that I just need to give away the bits I don't enjoy doing. You can't do it all. And obviously I think when you create a company, you have to hold it all. And I do think that's a really important part. You need to learn to do everything before you can give it up in a way, because then you understand why, the whys. But yeah, we're big enough now that we can start. taking bits out and giving to other people and employing people to do that. And are you comfortable with the outsourcing of that or the delegation? Yeah, because I'm just going to people I know through connections. people that you can trust, people that are recommended to you. Yeah, a lot of it come, like I said earlier, I absolutely love collaborating with people or, working with someone that I have worked, you know, I know, or I think the connection is lovely. you're someone you know, if you're giving that work to, I feel so much more comfortable to. Like if I'm going to spend my money whilst I want the best, don't get me wrong, equally, I think if that's someone you know, it's even better. Someone else near you is getting the money that... there's a mutual benefit to it beyond just the transaction of money too. I'm going to ask you, is it ever backfired? It's amazing. That's really lovely. well. Yeah, mean, like half the people that work, well, actually, like, basically everyone that works for us, there is connection. We don't get many people that we're like, oh, they just sent in a CV. Even one girl I laugh at because it was just a CV sent in. She came in to have an interview with me. It was a very casual chat, don't get me wrong. And as we're chatting, Denise, who's my sister-in-law, who works with us. walked out from out the back and she was like, hi Olivia. I knew her. she went to church with her dad or something. And I was like, this is so small. But I love that because everyone who's and you get much in terms of like work on the ground when we're doing an event, because we all know each other and because it's pretty much family and friends, the work I get out of people is better than just a contractor who has never worked with us. They can see why we're doing it. They can buy into that vision and it's a of a shared mission as opposed to someone that's a bit more mercenary. Just like I'm here for a night, a couple of nights, I'm going to get a paycheck and then bugger off. Yeah. And they want to like, they all enjoy it. We, you know, they get a good dinner out of it. We look after them. That's a key thing that I really want. Like I'm a big believer in. back to my past jobs where I've worked for bigger job, like the bigger companies, that whole, like, you know, like a very small bonus when you know that that company's made a lot of money can feel so why I didn't leave at some of those points. You know, I'm still questioning. However, Now I like to, if we're doing well, you know, we'll make sure the staff get an extra bit at the end or we took them all out for a Christmas party and we all had a lovely time. And I want to do that for them because they're helping us. We couldn't do it without them. And I don't want to forget that at any point to line my own pockets. Yeah, it's brilliant. I was about to it's a very sort of progressive way of thinking, but that kind of infers that it hasn't been something that business leaders or people that manage people thought about before. I think it's becoming more commonplace. And also you understand that by treating people like that, you're going to keep them happy and hopefully they'll keep coming back and wanting to work for you and deliver in a way that does feel like it's more than just I'm working for a paycheck. I've been to speaking specifically about weddings, you've been to weddings where you know you're being served by people that are just so despondent and so disconnected from the event. It's like they could be anywhere. They could be chucking your food down wherever you are, know. Whereas we've never had that punch-wood response. I think everyone does feel that we're family vibe. It appears I like to work in a family environment. Yeah, and I think for all the really positive and I'd argue the right reasons too, because there are some negative connotations that come from, as you've said, the family side of things. Okay, what is your vision then? You mentioned something there, was a kind of like a side note that you said like especially this year with delegation and everything for you. Is that because you've got particular plans? Is it because you have got... What's the evolution look like for the boundary moving forward? Are you happy where you are in terms of the direction the business is going? the direction we're really pleased with. We've got room to get bigger and busier now, but we need staff and stuff to back us. So that's why we need to keep them on happy. I feel like we need a couple of years to just enjoy where we're at a little bit without too much heaviness on us. Both myself and Jack, my business partner, we've got young families. So I suppose there's an element of not going too hard because we're... We want to find that balance of not working every single weekend and breaking ourselves on like 18 hour shifts every day. you want something to give your family when you get home. But no great in the, I would say this year is like a small look out, but in the next five years, just to continue what we're doing really, but where we can, we love the more, we do a lot of charity work, like having a lot of charities come in. Those ones are a bit more feel good factor. I love doing the weddings and I being part of those people's big days. But yeah, I suppose just turning our hand to lots of different things and seeing where that takes us. But yeah, just more of it. It's just such a versatile space as well and I think putting it out there as a venue that can be used in so many other different weird and wonderful ways than just, I'm doing air quotes, just a wedding venue I think is really important. But it's been amazing, it's been absolutely amazing to see it grow and you are literally a force of nature. When you are in that wedding venue and I'm seeing you manage your day like a conductor, I'm like... shit, there is no way that I would have the fortitude and the discipline to do all of that stuff. So it is inspiring. It really is. And I have to ask about your daughters and just, I'm going to ask you this question, Sarah at least, are you mindful of this, this, the role model that you are for your daughters? And is that something that you feel is important? Is there a behavior? Is there an approach to work that you want to role model for them? Yeah. Moving forward. Yeah. So I'm, my parents always worked. Both of them, my mum's always sort of had her own business from what I remember. She does tell me she's had jobs before then. But she could always pick us up from school. She could always attend everything. She could always schedule her day around us. So I think really I have always aspired to have that myself. It's not always possible, get me wrong, but majority of the time I can be there for. That's version of what work-life balance looks like for you. Yep. And, but I've always been taught to work. I don't feel like it was heavily pushed on me, but I have always worked. I've had a Saturday job since I was 14. I've always had a side hustle. At one point I was making blingkinis that Soph might have told you. mentioned this last night when I was doing the prep and I was gonna raise it but I'm glad you had. Yeah, wow. What? Okay. Did that last long? That helped me buy my house the money I raised from doing that so I would sit up at night making these bink bikinis My dad even end up helping me a few times which is hilarious My mum did help naturally, but my dad would be like about watching what can I do to you know, you've got five Yeah, and I and then the only way is Essex that buying them you are joking Yeah, Sophie didn't go into this amount of detail. Wow. She didn't go for it. I. All those times in Marbella and she never wore one. Yeah, you know, they weren't my vibe, but they were selling and that was great. It's burning forever, which is mad. Like, I don't know where it's come from, but yeah, I've always wanted to have a business and not work for myself. But with the kids, I would love, you know, what I want them to think is they don't have to go down any sort of career path if they don't want to. I think if you do put your mind to something and you believe in it, you can do it. You don't, I've never had like huge backing. When we did The Boundary, we did have people invest in us, but. You know, you don't, I think sometimes it can always seem too far-fetched to do something on your own. And I don't think you, sometimes it's just actually sheer determination, but you have to put the work in. It doesn't come easy. Which sadly, a lot of people think they can just open up business and business. Yeah. They think like, I can't tell you how many people have said to me in all the years that how lucky I am. And I think, there's not much luck in this. Definitely not it's like, I know it's not a new thing of people say this, but the amount of times that people have said to me, but you're lucky. I think what bit is that lucky? Cause the only reason I've done all of this is because I've done it. Yeah. I might've had a few like crossovers which have helped, definitely not luck. You're the architect. It fall on my lap. I'd like them to be able to do whatever they like to do. I won't give them everything. That's something me and Dina quiet. focused on that, you know, we want them, I think if you learn to work at a young age, they're already working their footnote. Yeah, up the chimney. If they know to work then they're prepared to do it type thing. Because I think a lot of kids these days are just not prepared to work, which is sad. They think it all comes, you know, they see too much on social media that they think just happens and that they can just be like... that's an aspiration now as well. Yeah, exactly. The influencer thing is a career path for so many people. so I just hope that they do something with their lives that they want to do and they're happy with, whatever that may be. They might want to take over the business one day. They'll be running around there. And whatever that is that day and when that is. yeah, they see me working a lot. They know Mummy goes off to work. Nora has started saying to me recently, Mummy, are you the boss? I say yes, in all aspects, in this house, business. Dane's just cowering in the corner. be absolutely laughing he said of. yeah, she know, know, Nora has grown up in the boundary as well. Winnie has too now. So, you know, she loves it over there. She understands what it is. She says people go there to get married. So she knows that bit. She doesn't know what really what married is though. So that's a lot. But yeah, you just want the best for them, right? And that they can have a bit of, I do hope they've got a bit I get up and go about. Yeah. Well, I think, you know, if you learn from what is evidenced around you, they're going to, you know, even if it's a small part of what you're showing every day, then I'm sure they will. There was an anecdote I read about on LinkedIn, ironically, because it's been half my life on the bloody thing, but it was about a mum that decided she was going to be very honest about her relationship with work to her kids. So this mum runs a business. She's got a four year old, has to be away from home for a few nights every week. And she decided rather than making it seem like it was a bad thing, I'm going to miss you. Don't worry. I'll be back soon. She said, yeah, part of what I do is being a mum to you and I want to look after you and I want to do the best job I can. Part of what I do is being a boss and leading other people and doing a job that I love and I really enjoy it. And she thought that narrative was really important to get across to her kids. I've never, I think. I get in the trap sometimes of making it seem like, God, yeah, I'm really sorry. I've got to go to work. And maybe that, that you have the risk then of setting that up in your kids minds of that's, going to work is a negative thing. That's brilliant. I need to be better at that because I make it out. Like my job is hard as hard as I want it to be. And I do make it out sometimes when I'm leaving the door and my oldest is stood at the door going, daddy, I'm going to miss you. I'm not really sorry. I have to sometimes just stop apologizing because actually I'm here. I don't really enjoy it. Yeah, and we shouldn't be ashamed of that. We definitely shouldn't be ashamed of working and having a career. I think that there's a natural part of moaning about work, isn't there? But really, if you didn't work, would you really enjoy that? Because I know I wouldn't. Even if I could still have the money, I know, and know loads of people will be thinking, you're mental. I wouldn't enjoy it. I wouldn't. There's something to be said, isn't there, from actually... Your mind works in a different way. Like the cliche thing is if you won the lottery, would you still work? Yeah. And you'd have to in... But maybe whatever you do for a living... mean... It would change, it would change and I think that's what people forget. It would definitely change. But I find the buzz, the success, you know, the... I still get excited every time I get a book in. I can't believe people have picked us or people, you know, I still get excited to everyone. That's amazing. That's so amazing to hear. running theme for season two of Jobsworth is very much of, people start to realize this further down the lines. Well, the guest list has been curated. Like I do actually have a conscious. Of who said yes? Out of the hundred people, no. I'm down at number 99, said yes. Thanks to everybody who said no before. it's definitely not like that. But I'm speaking to people that are based in and around Lee and Southend because I feel like just the volume of people that are either entrepreneurs, business owners, creatives in this neck of the woods is higher than average. The concentration I think is very high. So I think it is. Do you think, so I would infer from that that you don't think I'm mad for thinking that. No. Any particular reason why that is the case? Well, this is what I'm trying to get to the bottom of. think so. What I would say is what I enjoy about it, and I've obviously mentioned this a couple of times, is I like going into the broad way, seeing someone, oh, we'll catch up, let's talk about this. I can actually use a person who you know. Go for it, come. So Bex Hyde. Yes. Yeah, she's coming on the podcast No, I didn't. I'm her on Thursday, so interested. So we actually worked together. So we are actually friends before any of this. She used to go out with one of my neighbours years ago. And then she worked at Miss Selfridge, I worked at Topshop. And then whilst at Topshop, whilst at Zebra, she worked for DCK, which was the jewellery designers for Topshop. We linked and at that point I worked with her to design a jewelry store for that brand. Liars and Lovers or something along those, I can't remember. So we actually worked together there. Since then, even through the boundary, not only has she been to a couple of weddings there, we've done bridal shoots for Havens. And now I'm meeting her this week about social media. And I love that you can cross over so many paths with someone who is literally on my doorstep and I can see in the coffee shop or I'll see on a dog walk or I'll drive past. And I think I love that sort of collaboration. Yeah, and I think this episode has got me that much closer to realizing what it is and it is that I don't think I think what is a rarity is that openness to collaborate Yeah, and also not always to the to the to the financial benefit of yourself like you today Yeah, every guest that has come in has given up their time and whatever time those stressing about doing this the forms ask people to fill out to come in and get involved in this and yet is it's mutually reciprocal in in mutually beneficial I should say in a way that you get to talk about your experience and hopefully promote something but no one has to do that. There is a degree of altruism there that you're just like someone's actually put this together I'm gonna fucking help them and support me in a way that I can that isn't handing over money. I'm not expecting someone to hand money over to me. So I think that's a really that word collaboration I think is really lovely way to describe it. think my brain does work like that. I mean, I actually met up with Sophie yesterday and we were speaking about stuff and already my brain was like, I've got to tell her about this person. I've got to tell her about this person from things she's thinking of doing. But that's the way I work with all my friends. I'm like, well give me your flyers for this and I can, you know, you do travel. I can tell my couples about honeymoons through you. Like my brain doesn't stop with how can I make this better for all of us? How can we all benefit? I think that's big around this area. That is a such, thank you. Thank you for connecting the dots. I really feel like that's actually like a proper eureka moment. 100 % is that collaboration and that willingness to go out of your way for someone too. I think that's great. Charlotte, thank you for that. I'm gonna steal that completely and use that on whatever way I wrap this up. Right, we're done. So for the closing question. So this morning, no, what's she got for me? Maybe it's a tricky one, mum! Question just for anyone that hasn't listened to the podcast before There's a famous podcast where the closing question is left by previous guests in this because my mom is basically the person I go to for most of my marketing ideas and My mom asked the question. I don't listen to the voice note Worryingly, so I'm gonna turn the volume up and always apologize in advance. Let's see what happened Hi Charlotte, what's the strangest, weirdest or funniest thing anyone's ever asked you to arrange for their wedding? Thanks very much. when she says thanks very much. It's Lisa. Hi Lisa, John's mum. First off. I haven't had too many strange ones, but thinking what would be the most strange to other people would probably be at one of my own friend's weddings at Boundary, however, another one. Didn't think so many friends would want to get married there after opening it. It's quite a long list. Had a drag queen. Okay. Which her mum arranged. I was... Yeah, and I was thinking, I don't know if she's gonna like this. you've obviously you know this person yeah okay right But the mum was adamant I couldn't say anything. What makes it worse is the bride, who I'm talking about, actually our accountant. Not only that, so she's my friend, primarily. She now works for us as our accountant, the side, obviously, because everyone has known her. Yeah, and her mum wanted a drag queen to come out through the dinner and sing a song which was... I can't remember the song now, but the one... that it was based on was it should have been me. So she sort of beat up the groom with a bouquet to pretend it should have been, which obviously everyone was howling with. But yeah, probably one of the weirdest ones. I think that's a great example as well. And it being the mum that's asked for that to happen and the connection there between you and your friend and thinking this is just going to crash and burn. I think that's great. Charlotte, thank you so much for coming in and for giving up a big chunk of your day. Before we go, how can we find out more? How can anyone listening find out more about the boundary? Where do they need to go? So our website, social media channels are going to get better soon. Hopefully Bex will look after them. Yeah, best way to get in touch. you drop us an email, you can always come down and view it, which is always what I say, best thing is to understand it is to come down and see us so you see the ground you're on and what's around us. Because it's not just a... Yes, no, definitely not. Definitely not. And what I'll do, I'll leave all the links to socials website in the episode description too. Cool. Thank you so much. Thanks. Cheers. Thanks for listening to Jobsworth. If you enjoyed this episode, please feel free to like and subscribe. You can stay connected by following me on LinkedIn for more insights on the world of work, behind the scenes content and updates on upcoming episodes.