JobsWorth Reshare - Roll Boys Rising

We wrap up this batch of JobsWorth Reshare episodes with Roll Boys Rising from October 2024. George Artemi, founder of Roll Boys, was certainly a fan favourite and 6 months on he's gone from strength to strength, building a brand that is renowned for making sensational cinnamon rolls. 

In this episode, I sit down with George Artemi, founder of Roll Boys, who shares his journey from aspiring professional footballer to successful entrepreneur. George discusses the challenges he faced after being released from football, his experiences in the hospitality industry, and the personal struggles that led him to a turning point in his life. George also discusses the importance of self-discovery, the challenges of entrepreneurship and building a brand with heart and authenticity.

Takeaways

• Experiencing rock bottom can lead to profound personal growth.
• Self-discovery is a continuous process that requires introspection.
• Mental health awareness is essential in navigating life's ups and downs.
• Authentic relationships are vital for personal fulfilment.
• Embracing change can lead to unexpected opportunities.
• It's important to enjoy the journey, not just the destination.

Roll Boys

Website - https://rollboys.co.uk/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/rollboysldn/
TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@rollboysldn
YouTube- https://www.youtube.com/@ROLLBOYSTV

Keywords

George Artemi, football career, hospitality industry, mental health, personal growth, entrepreneurship, overcoming adversity, self-discovery, life lessons, resilience, plant medicines, psychedelics, Ayahuasca, personal journey, Roll boys, entrepreneurship, brand building, self-discovery, faith, belief

Proud to be supported by friends of the show and previous guests, The Local Merchants.

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Contact the show on hello@jobs-worth.com

Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 2:02 The Journey from Football to Entrepreneurship
• 11:02 Identity Crisis and Support Systems
• 20:54 The Launch of The Vine and Early Challenges
• 26:13 Navigating Success and Personal Struggles
• 30:21 Introspection During Isolation
• 33:09 Hitting Rock Bottom
• 41:03 The Catalyst for Change
• 43:10 Rebuilding and Self-Discovery
• 51:04 Exploring New Paths
• 57:07 The Birth of Rollboys
• 1:00:54 Unexpected Connections: A Journey Begins
• 1:03:10 The Birth of a Business Idea
• 1:07:02 From Naivety to Entrepreneurship
• 1:10:06 Creating a Brand with Heart
• 1:13:29 Building Community and Connection
• 1:17:27 The Importance of Authenticity in Business
• 1:20:16 Navigating Opportunities and Staying True
• 1:23:40 Faith and Belief in Your Journey
• 1:28:35 This and That Game

Transcript

0:00

Hello and welcome back to our final jobs worth reshare episode this week I'm going back to a conversation I had with roll boys founder George R. Temi If you haven't listened to this episode yet George was someone that decided to build a brand centered around sensational cinnamon rolls with zero baking experience And if I'm really honest during the course of this conversation there were multiple times where I was looking at George and wondering if he could make this work and seven months after the episode's release, it's safe to say he's doing all right. When we were recording, George was still looking for a London-based location that Roll Boys could call home. And since landing a residency at St. Espresso in Hackney Wick, George, his story and his roles have gone viral. From selling out regularly every Saturday and Sunday to being featured in some of the biggest food accounts on Instagram, George has shown what can be achieved with a solid brand, Buckets of Self-Belief. and a commercial bread oven. This was a really honest and authentic conversation with George. He's an incredible storyteller. He's had an incredibly interesting life that's taken him up to the point of founding Rollboys. And I just wish him all the success in the world for what comes next. So if you've got any feedback on the episode, if you've got any messages you want to send on to George, then please feel free to get involved in the comments wherever you're listening. And stay tuned for the return of the new and improved Jobsworth that you'll also be able to watch on YouTube coming next week. you What would you do? Yeah, no. You're brilliant. Job's worth season 3 episode 3 roll boys rising you Welcome to episode 3 of Jobsworth, season 3. This week I catch up with Rollboys founder George Artemi. Not heard of Rollboys yet? Trust me, if George has anything to say about it, you soon will. After following his childhood dreams of becoming a pro footballer, George was let go by Torquay United at the age of 20 and had to come to terms with the fact that the beautiful game just wasn't for him. So what happens when someone in their early 20s, someone who has forgone so many of the rites of passage we all go through as teenagers to focus on a single goal, has that taken away from them? Well... We talk about that. We also talk about George's experience running one of the premier night spots in Essex, the events that brought that chapter of his life to a close, a life-changing call in 2019, and his journey of rebirth shortly after. George is almost contagiously optimistic. It's hard not to listen to his story and feel inspired to do, well, something. That being said, we do discuss how someone with absolutely no baking skills whatsoever decides it's a good idea to build a business selling cinnamon rolls. Stay tuned for the answer. Prepare yourself for a very honest, very emotional, very human conversation with one of the most authentic people I've had on the podcast. And if you aren't on the Rollboys bandwagon just yet, prepare to jump on that too. So without the redo, let me introduce you to the only guy who could walk through the centre of Leoncy dressed as a banana and get away with it. George R. Okay, let's see, yeah, footballer man. Yeah, that was my dream. And then it became my identity. And then as I grew up through, I mean, I started playing at five. So I was playing just Sunday league and just playing then. Not really. wasn't I wasn't getting anywhere really at a young age, but from 14, I signed for late in Orient. And then that was my entry into like professional clubs. Yeah. And I was kind of like, opened my eyes to like, OK, this is possible now. You know, being 14, you're starting to find like you start to become more of a teenager and heading into the adults and yeah, it was just something Yeah, 14 years old signed for Latin-Orient and then that's where the kind of journey to actually trying to make that happen began Did you have inspiration around you when you were younger? Was there anyone that played football or did you just have parents or people around you that were like, go down that route. Obviously drive, I would imagine, taxiing you to wherever you needed to go for it as well. honestly, was a big, my dad was a massive motivator for that. He was the guy that took me everywhere, everywhere around the country. He supported me and... through everything, you Like I got released and I got in and it was like, come on, let's go again. And then he's driving me around to different trials at different clubs and then had a trial in Torquay and he's driving me all the way down there and eventually signed there. But when I was younger, he was very hard. Yeah, so very hard on me. I look at it now. in two ways. Obviously it taught me a strong work ethic. then at the other way it was like I ended up not having the childhood like the teenagers like a normal teenager would. Yeah, I'm already seeing I'm already thinking about the differences that I would have experienced not having trials and training sessions and all those things with a view of maybe going pro at a sport in comparison to you like I Yeah, like 15 16. I was hanging about the street corners drinking Bacardi Breezes It wasn't a problem, but you know is that probably be a different way of spending a Friday night for you That's doing your training sessions and Saturdays Sundays and weekends taken up but there was that little something inside of me. know, when you go to the park and everyone's kind of like drinking their Piccardi Brizio or Lambrini. whatever we whatever was flying about. was there but I wasn't drinking. So I was always this footballer, know, that's what I mean about the identity. I was great at such a young age. was like, okay, that is me. Didn't drink, didn't touch anything. No girls. I was told no, focus, focus, focus, focus, focus, focus. And that's what I mean. It kind of drove me into this position where I just I didn't want to do it anymore, you know? So you got that as your North star then. So football is your identity, football is your goal. Signed for the O's, I've got a couple of friends that will be very happy about hearing that. And then how far down that road did you go then before you realised that wasn't going to end up being your career? Because we're speaking to you now and you're not professional footballer and you haven't up to that certain level. So what happened? So I was 16 and I signed, I was 14, sorry, and I signed for the under 16s. I signed until up to under 16. So that's when you get your scholarship. And I was doing amazing. I was playing really well. I was the captain of the under 14s and then the under 16s as well when I was there. And then... You know with football, it's very much a politics and a very much a opinionated game, know, a judgement is always on you to perform. And I just couldn't please the one man in charge, you know, I couldn't please the man who made the decision, the final decision. And with all the backing of the coaches that I had, the man that was a yes or a no to take me to the next level was a straight up no. Yeah, didn't fancy me. So yeah, that was my first real major setback in my life because I was looking on the up. So yeah, that was the end of that chapter. And that was the beginning of like going on trial with different clubs. Ultimately ending up in a place called Rushden and Diamonds, which is a football team, spent two years there, made my first team debut. And then ultimately ended up being in very difficult position with that in terms of I didn't get along with the coaches and I didn't enjoy it and yeah I ended up getting released from there again. So that's second time, signed for Southend, spent a year there. got released, third time, then went to Torquay for another year, just under a year actually, short term contract. How old are you at this stage? I am now, Torquay was 19 to 20. Okay. Yeah. So it was like that moment where I was at this club, I knew the manager, he liked me. I just didn't quite cut it. There was players that were more experienced ahead of me. It was all that cliché and then people would talk about, I would have made it if I got injured. Because of my injuries, I was more in the case of like, yeah, I did get injured a lot, up. But my head got swayed and I started to be in and around the wrong circles and the focus was lost. So yeah, that kind of was drawn back from it. then, yeah, it ended up. getting released from there as well, and then dropped into the big world of non-league football and go and figure it out for yourself. How was it coming to terms with that? I think like I said, I go back to like the identity thing, you know, you create this identity as a footballer, you live the life of a footballer and you're only thing in your life is football. Every day you're training, you're training, you're playing and you've got the easy life of training half day, going home and then doing whatever you want to do in the afternoon. You walk around in your tracksuit and your club tracksuit and you think you're something. know, you feel like you're part of the football culture and I look at youngsters now and I see that and like majority of people don't make it to be a professional footballer and then you're just dropped into this world of like alright so that is now just all of a sudden cutthroatly been taken away from me or terrible injuries yeah has been taken away from me and now I'm left to go and figure out for myself and then you start dropping down the league and start playing in non-league and then That's a whole different category of kettle of fish. yeah, for me, it was the moment when I really had to find out who I was as a person. And that was a real challenge. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Especially when you've been so committed to doing one thing and then you realize that maybe that one thing isn't the thing you're going to end up doing. You start asking questions around who am I? How do I even recalibrate to find out the thing that I now want to do? And that's really hard. How was your dad at that stage as well? Because obviously if you've been a driving force towards that, it's becoming more more apparent that this isn't going to work out as a long-term career prospect for you. How was he supported? mad, crazy supportive. Through the whole journey he was there. He was supportive and we got to that stage where we realised that maybe the professional route isn't the way it's going to go for me. wasn't my path. He still came to my non-league teams, drove me, took me, watched, waited, sat, stood and he was there. Wind and rain, through everything. And forever grateful for that and to be honest I don't give him enough credit for actually the effort that he put in to supporting me through that journey. But ultimately it just wasn't meant to be. Yeah, think so. People that have had that experience of one or both of their parents being that supportive. Like that was my mum in my life. Like it was only my mum that raised me and my brother. And whilst we weren't doing it at professional level, she got a special mention in my school yearbook for never missing a rugby game. She was like to the point like die hard fan and just this real supportive energy of both me and my brother. And I feel for people that haven't had that experience. What a lovely thing for you to have had at that stage in your life as well, someone driving you. But you dropped into the big wild world at 19... 20. So what happens then? I know this is a big gulf to try and fill, but I guess you've gone, like I said, all this motivation going in one direction. So what happens next for you? So I talk about this in my social stories that I tell is I was very entitled. I felt very entitled that the world owed me something. I felt like something was going to be handed to me on a plate. Is that linked? I'm sorry to interject. Is that linked to the is that linked to feeling like you're going to be a certain thing? And then it didn't come about. And then that's the transition period of like, okay, so nobody's going to come save me in this world. I've got to and figure it out for myself. So yeah, there was that, but it took a long time. I was lazy. I kind of started working for my dad behind the bar in his place. And I didn't have no ambition, no drive. It was just, was picking up some money on the weekends, playing a bit of part-time football. And just ultimately got into this, right, just didn't have nothing to give me like that fight. I didn't, yeah, like again, there was no drive. So yeah, that was pretty much how my life went for a few years until I probably decided to do the best thing I ever did. at a young age and decided to travel. So I've always been obsessed with the US and I decided to take a three month trip around the US at that time on my own and yeah, just opened up my world to what was out there. I was then 22, so yeah, was legal to like, it was pretty much a three month. Very different experience if you go to the US before you turn 21. I've been out to the US a fair few times, did it at 19 and then went out at 25. It's a very different world when you get into bars and start drinking. So it was three months at 22. What was your experience like? You know, like because I've been so, like I said, I didn't have like the quote unquote normal child's lifestyle. know, was in football, football, football, football, no, no girls, no drinking, partying, no this. And, and then when this opportunity kind of came around, it was like, all right, let's go crazy. making up for lost time. that's what I feel like was doing, know, at such a young age, looking back, I literally, I just had a moment of where I just kind of grabbed the experience by the horns and just went for it, you know, I I started on the West Coast and eventually kind of made my way through the West Coast across into Chicago and then down the East Coast. Oh wow. Yeah, so yeah, that was an amazing trip. it only three months that you weren't saying it's a long time to go at 22 years? Visa wise for the US that was kind of like the the maximum that you could do 90 days. Yeah, I thought why not do the whole 90 and just kind of Yeah done the three months there and then kind of came back Again just didn't have a clue what I was gonna do. Again, just still there was no drive there but Did it do anything? Because I went travelling for six months when I was 24. And I had a view at the time. I'd been a personal trainer straight out of college for about six years, running my own thing, doing that, falling out love with it. And for me, I'd gone with the hope of travelling completely like changing my life, changing my experience. Now I went to English speaking countries predominantly. The culture wasn't that different. Australia So I went to Australia, Australia, New Zealand and the States was where I spent the bulk of my time, did four weeks in Thailand, doing all the stuff that 24, 25 year olds in Thailand do, which is everyone there is British, Australian, American, you're not really getting exposed to the culture. I got back six months later in debt, sitting there thinking, okay, nothing's really changed, I'm back in the same kind of position. Is that... Was that your experience? I'm not saying it was, but that was mine. What was yours when you got back? so at that age, fortunately I wasn't in debt. No, what I did find out about myself though is that when I had something to work towards for, I would do it. So as soon as I decided like, okay, I'm going to the US now to travel for three months, I worked every hour under the sun in the bar. I even got a job, my first, my only ever real quote, real job. Was for three months at the Royal Bankers got like a bank on the phone, like a robot. And I was, I was there for three months and earned some money. just saved up to go and to do this. So when I came back, that was like in the back of my mind thinking, I said, can, you you have got to work ethic, it's inside. Yeah, there's something to go for, but that was, That still, I didn't know what to put that energy towards until I was 23 and my dad gave me and my sister the opportunity because obviously he's in hospitality industry. You might have to fill me in a little bit. Again, I know of you, George, but I don't know your whole backstory. So you can fill me in and I know there's links to the Vine. So you can just treat me like I know very little. Yeah, so obviously my dad's kind of been in the hospitality kind of industry for loads of years and I grew up through it. I don't know whether it was kind of a natural thing for me to go into or be good at, but it was just maybe something I was born into, know, and, and yeah, so. As I got older, I started working behind the bar in there. And then when I didn't play, I wasn't playing football, I started more full time there. Just like, I never worked fully. was just like there. I was practicing card tricks at the end of the bar, doing that kind of thing. And then. is just to be clear for anyone that would know it, this is in the Vine... in Lee, right in cave wow. So that was the first one. Yeah, so I didn't know that. thought the vine in Brent... No, no. Was the first one. okay. So leaves was the mothership. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So I kind of ended up being in this position where that was, I was kind of fell into that, as you could say, and then using it as it's like, okay, what am going to do with my life? Kind of that time to figure that out. Yeah. And then, and then, he basically, when, when I came back from traveling, when I was 23, He said to me and my sister, like, look. How do you feel about like opening your own? I'll give you an opportunity to open your own place. And my first instinct was yeah, absolutely. Yeah. With the thought in mind that my sister at the time was going to take the leading role. Right. Like because she was, I was always the lazy one and not doing anything. I was the one that sat back, whatever, on the entitlement. Yeah. Right. But when it actually happened and we said, yes, we found a place in Brentwood, we went through the buying process. He obviously bought it for us with the aim to pay him back. was like, here's your opportunity, go and make it your own. And that's when like the... switch inside of me flicked and there was like this ignition inside that I was just like obsessed with this thing now and just became completely invested in what it was that I was creating and yeah it's where my whole life changed dramatically just this is at 23 so very young crazy responsibility how how she's a year older than me I bet you're pretty much the same age at that point going into this business with all the backing of someone that has done it for years, which is great, but you're being given this of sandbox, this proving ground to go, right, you can fuck it up or you can do. Exactly. can do really well with it. Yeah, very risky from my dad's half, really. It shows a level of belief that is brilliant, but also you know wanted to give you that opportunity Yeah, do you know what? I've never really actually looked at you like that at the level of belief because he didn't have to do that. It's not like I'm a dad, right? I've two boys who's who says in I'd love to be in a position when they're in their early 20s if they come to me with an idea for the life of me if they get into recruitment, I've done something wrong. But in their early 20s, if they come to me and say I've got this idea, I'd love to be in a position to invest fund it whatever. But even as a parent, you're still not throwing your money in something you believe is going to go tits up. So he must have had belief in you and your sister that you could do that, which Which is great, but yeah, sometimes it's only in hindsight you think, yeah, shit. Yeah, it's true. Yeah, was at that moment when you said that I was like, alright, okay, maybe you're right, yeah. So what was the experience like? 23 doing this? I mean, I so it just shows you doesn't it? I knew of the vine in Brentwood before I knew of the vine in Like that was I remember at the time I mean I might be talking out of turn because I know you're go into this a bit but like when Sugar Hut in my in my experience of going out was blowing up the vine was a place like all of this stuff the vine is in Brentwood which is your your guys place. So talk to me about that experience that's crazy. Jesus Christ. Yeah, I'll do the... Yeah, the brief version. Basically, I had no idea what I was doing. had absolutely no idea. such a young age. But what I did have was passion. I had this newfound drive and ambition. But it wasn't for money. wasn't... it's always... never been for that... It was what it was for me was I just had this passion to create a place where people wanted to come and wanted to be a part of and really it was about making their experience the best that it could ever be. You know, and for its pros and cons, because you know, when a young kid like taking things personally, when things don't go right and being in this position where it's not always going to be amazing. That was a challenge, but ultimately I had a concept in mind for the place. had a vision. I didn't know at the time it was all just happening in front of me and it become really, really successful. And yeah, over a period of three amazing years at such a young age, you know, as the popularity. Increased and more and more people wanted to come and more and more people wanted to be a part of it I was young I was naive and I mentally wasn't in the position to be able to deal with the pressure right, you know, I didn't know what was I was just kind of taking as it came and it got to the point of where some amazing experiences Some the ones that I'll hold with me for the rest of my life But you you add success to a young star, you add money, you add popularity, and then all the things that come with that on the flip side of it was where I began to really suffer. yeah, towards the end of it, I didn't really know where to turn. was the feelings inside me. I just couldn't be in this place. I couldn't do this anymore. I felt really suffocated. I mean you can go into as much or as little detail as you want George, but we're talking lifestyle that you're living in around that world, aren't you as well? Being one where you realise that longer term that is not a way to survive. Yeah, so ultimately I became so like football I just shifted my identity like from being football to now this guy that owns this nightclub bar it started this we call it bar nightclub. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I Created this identity, but I knew that was never really truly me, but I just got lost in it I got lost in this lifestyle. I got lost in in in the the environment and I started to do things to try and compensate and cover all of what was actually going up inside of me. yeah, so I ended up like on the dark path. You you your drink and your drugs, et cetera, and all of that involved. And, yeah, was just this voice inside of me saying, this isn't you. But I kept trying to ignore it and trying to be that person that I thought I had to be. That's a really good point to make because I would imagine you're surrounding yourself with people that are almost applauding that, aren't they? You're almost kind of supporting that and then you start to link that identity with I'm successful because of this. So I'm taking that costume, putting it on and my success is directly linked to this. you also, at least you had that voice because a lot of people It was extremely lonely. Like extremely lonely time man. Because ultimately I just really felt like people wanted to know me for what I had and for what I could do for them. Because they wanted something from me. And that's what I felt like there was no authenticity and no genuineness in... The connections not to say they're bad people because the people that had were great and I and I create some really cool friendships But like they're not around anymore Very transactional, know, they're no none of them. Nobody's around. Yeah, I still see them and this they're cool, but like there's that Transaction is now. Yeah I think for a lot of people, I swore that in season three I wouldn't mention the pandemic, but I got to, because it's still like within recent living memory. It's not ancient history yet, but I think for a lot of people the pandemic sort of whittled away. Everyone came out of the last four years with much closer, in my opinion, most close, much closer knit friendship groups or circles of influence than they had pre pandemic because it whittled it out. And actually it sounds like your experience, I'm not saying it was a pandemic, but you understand what I mean. It was the filter that you needed to come out of that and realise actually if that was the strength of what those relationships were based on, then yeah, it's another positive of removing yourself from that world. Yeah, you know, it was like a case of like nobody wanted to know me during the week. Yeah. I had obviously my close friends around there and like, yeah, like I said, they're still great people. Yeah. But come the weekend, all of a sudden around Saturday afternoon, it was like, let's now they want to know. It's all ramping up. And that was, yeah, that was that was that was that was that was a struggle. But yeah. Yeah, to your point though on like finding your, like there's been close and near friendship groups through the pandemic. jump ahead, but I like, really found it like the opposite for me, you know? Yeah, because I went so inwards and that kind of ties in nicely to where the end of my time at the the buying kind of really comes to a close was through that COVID period. It's when I really found out that's not, that's like, I made the decision like that is no longer for me. So it was like, I really shut off from everyone, the whole world. And I decided to turn all my attention. inwards. And that was the moment again when my life then shifted and changed once more. So yeah, I came out of that even more lonely because I didn't have anyone around me. It was just me. It sounded like you really needed to do that. The process of scaling all of that back and having that introspection, I mean, yeah, probably completely turned the ship in the right direction. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean there was a breaking point for me all kind of tied in nicely because there was a breaking point for me in October 2019 Okay, and that was the moment, you know that that rock bottom moment Yeah, it was then right and then from that point on it was like, okay So let's start seeing a therapist. Yeah, least you know, let's do that And it was kind of the road to on the journey back, we say. And then, yeah, continued through that period of time. And then obviously Covid happened. then, yeah, there's no choice, like no business, no, no, no distraction. It was like you have a decision here. You still have that decision in that period, at that moment when it's. which direction am gonna go now? Am I gonna use this time to like just sit back and watch Netflix and play Call of Duty or... and do those drinking games on the apps and whatever it at that time, I can't remember what it was called. Or do I really use this time and be like, all right, this is the shift that I need. And fortunately, I don't know what it was inside of me that drove me to that decision, but it wasn't even a question. It was like, this is your time now. Thankful man, truly, truly grateful because I don't know where the other path would have led me. Yeah, I you can you can imagine That could have gone down but yeah, I do I do want to ask if you don't mind please and you share again Georgia However much you're comfortable sharing October 2019. Yeah, can I ask more about So what so when you describe it as rock bottom, I think it might be helpful just for it to acknowledge What rock bottom is it's completely subjective and yeah people's lived experience is very different. But can you tell us a bit more about that? sure man so I'll take it I'll take it back and this is actually something that I haven't actually spoke about publicly on any platform before but it now is I feel like is a a fitting time I was actually thinking about this earlier thinking if it comes up will if it felt right I'll talk about yeah and I won't touch on it in too much detail yeah yeah so Obviously everything that I went through with Devine in Brentwood and my own personal struggles with that. 2018, at the end of it we just had our most amazing year. It was obviously financially and everything was incredible. I guess you're established then aren't you as well, you're in a good position, you've got your client base, customer base, you're known. Every week was guaranteed sellouts and it was it we had a good thing going. Yeah. And then one thing happens that shifts your whole world upside down, you know, just like that. and that's what happened on Christmas Eve 2018. We had an incident where one of my the doorman at the time. which was hired from an outside agency, still that's a relevant point. He, and I'll tell this story very quickly, but he basically hit somebody outside of the premises. And yeah, the guy ended up going into hospital and then he ended up dying, unfortunately. And then there was a whole... part that obviously I'm not going to talk about in depth, but it was, yeah, I have respect for the people's family, et cetera. And it kind of got to the point where they took our, they took our license away from us. There's a whole backstory to that that we don't need to go into, but that was a moment in my life where it was, like I said, turned upside down. They took, they revoked our license and now we couldn't trade anymore. So ultimately my business, the business was taken away. And then 2019 was the year that I like to describe about, was my self-destruct button. I brushed it all under the carpet and I ended up moving on to something which was just down the road here. It was the Vine South End. Okay. I had the opportunity to put the vine in there. I remember that now George, it's all coming back to me. I do remember when that was the vibe. Yeah, okay. Right, instead of dealing with my problems, I buried them deeper and I tried to run away from them further. So more drinking, more drugs, more partying, more after partying, more holidays where I was spending stupid money on stupid things. Chasing materialism, know, and I was just trying to escape. doing my best at it and I tell this story because it's a lighthearted story but it's true the truth, right? As much as I was in pain, I decided to go to LA for the second time that year because my friend had moved out there and I went to go and see him and ultimately let my hair down again and long story short, it was the last night and I was feeling terrible, it was my birthday. And I was flying home the next day and I was feeling terrible about myself anyway in my whole entire life. I just felt worthless. Last night we arranged to take these two girls out for an evening meal and we went to a really nice restaurant and ended up picking up the bill at the end of the night and we thought, this is going good. We're to go on to the next place and then who knows where it could go, right? There was a situation now where we got up to leave the mill. We got into the toilets and there was a old man out here. Me and him, we got into the toilets and we're all happy about this situation that we're feeling good about ourselves. Lo and behold, we've come out of the toilets. We've waited. We've waited a little bit longer and we just kind of looked at each other and we're like, no, this ain't happening. Nah, this is not happening. no. You know it's going. They darted. They saw us go into the toilet, shifted and then they went. I swear to you. It's humbling experience but it's deeper than that for me. Because I went back to... I went back to his apartment and he's gone to sleep and I just sat on the sofa and I was just literally running through my head about this situation just feeling so utterly useless. Like it's not just that moment, it's accumulation of everything that I just experienced through my whole that whole year and beyond that had just kind of built up to that moment. And I was like, what is this man? Like I'm done with this shit chasing this life and this lifestyle that just ending up being in every time being faced with this dark depressing place. So the next day on a come down of alcohol and whatnot, I'm on the flight back home and I go back to my dingy flat that I've just let messy, no sheets on my bed, like walked in and it was dark and it was dingy and gray. And I just sat there, man. And I was just like, this is it. Like this is the real bottom for me. I, yeah, I, Yeah, suicidal ideations that began to occur for me. This is something that I kind of had experienced, but it was like so prominent, man. And I'd never felt so low in my life about the whole situation in my life. And yeah, went to went to bed, woke up the next day with no, no sheets. Just didn't get up. I was just laying in bed like this was this was as bad as it could get. Didn't know where to turn. didn't know, didn't have, didn't felt like I didn't have anyone around me. And I had to just peel myself up off the floor. And yeah, first port call was my mum. I said, look, I am in a terrible place. Terrible, terrible place. Like, what do I do? And... she basically spoke to my dad and then they organized the therapist for me and then that was the kind of first time I thought, all right, let's try and do something about this. And yeah, like I said, that was the moment when like now I'd lost my business, buried everything under the carpet, like financially that had all been taken away through this process. so was, everything had just kind of gone. And yeah, I was left to, it was all caught up. It all caught up very fast and there was no running away anymore. It was there for me to face in front of me, like that moment of like, this is it. And yeah. the gun into that. That's raw. That's raw stuff and you can see that and sense it and I can imagine. I wanted to circle back round. I didn't know any of that and I think... When someone mentions they've gone to therapy, there has to be a catalyst for that. And I am very open about my struggles with mental health and depression. I've been seeing a therapist. Weirdly, if you started seeing a therapist around October 2019, around about the same time I did. When's your birthday? Yes, on the 17th of October. I've done a star sign at a bleepers birthday. But I definitely, my birthday each year for some reason is a real time of reflection for me anyway. And I started therapy around then and it did change my life. Like just changed my outlook. But you need to hit, whether people describe it as rock bottom or a low or a point, an inciting event, an inciting incident, some people call it where you think. Fuck, need something needs to change in my life. So thank you for that. And I think that might resonate in a lot of different ways with people understanding that. And God bless your mum and your dad. because again, I feel for the families that don't aren't as open and don't see therapy as a route. It might, you could have gone down any number of roads from that point when you asked for help. And if therapy wasn't one, where do you go from there? Yeah. So that's great. in a way, in a number of ways, that's a really good thing to have happened in October 2019. So you now start this process of a rebuild, you want to brand it as. So talk to us then, you've had this rock bottom 2019 and then, I mean, we're five years, we're literally nearly five years down the line now. So what was the rebirth like? Cool. Yeah, so like I said, like the COVID period, it happened and it was the moment to turn all my attention and focus on to figuring out who I was now as a person because ultimately I had no idea. I had no idea who I was. I had no idea what I wanted in life. I had no idea what I liked. Yeah, I started to just do some self-inquiry. So throughout my days, I would start doing all the healthy things, know, changing the habits, going for walks, eating better, reading and moving my body, training and just feeding myself with positivity. And started to find out more about life, I suppose. Yeah. And what was what it was really about. Because I had the time to now and I had, I made the time to, you know. Yeah. And. You start to progression, start to see changes, start to, for me anyway, I started to become more aware, more self-aware of my own thoughts and all my own and how they linked to actions, how they linked to how I felt and yeah, started to be and start things, do things that I never would have even dreamed or imagined to do, for example, like yoga and meditation and So these wouldn't have been things that if we'd said about George at 23, yoga, meditation, mindfulness, whatever that looked like, everyone would have gone, what? They couldn't link the two. Never, never ever, never would I even dream of even entertaining the idea of it. Right. And yeah, it was just an introduction when it happened slowly. And then just kind of as time goes on, you start to find your things that you like. I went through the period of like the whole 5am, all of the free hour morning routine. I went through all of that. Done it all. Read all the books. I mean, there's lots of books I haven't read, but I've read. I read. I never read books before in my life. OK. And then this was a shift and a change. So, yeah, it kind of just happened like that and progressed. And and, yeah, start to see change in myself and how I felt. And yeah, that was that was like the beginning part of it. And then, yeah, I'll fast forward because that's kind of how my life kind of went for Yeah, if that describes the kind of route now, the path, let's say that you're on, and I mean that can, God, the kind of work that you're doing, that introspective work and that change of habit that you're doing can take a long time to bed in as well. So I know five years is a long time to bridge, but yeah, go for it. Fast forward. It was was it was it's a fast-forward to just 2021 really to towards the end of that I started to listen and started watching a lot of podcasts and listen to a lot of like Yeah, a lot of people like Joe Rogan and And then I started to see that guy called Peter Krohn. I don't even know him. Another one called Aubrey Marcus. These amazing people that I started to really resonate with. then, like this isn't really a topic. This isn't really relative for this podcast. It was... I started to become really curious and listening to Joe Rogan podcast and talking about like plant medicines and psychedelics and mushrooms and things like that. And I openly talk about it. Like I'm not an advocate for it. I'm not an ambassador for it, but I talk about my experience and my connection to plant medicines and et cetera. And it all stemmed from hearing this and it being something that kept being in my... Yeah, I want to say planting a seed and it's just an awful cliche given what we're talking about Yeah, it literally is. is. But it is the only way, which is planting a seed. And I started to become more intrigued. I was drawn to hearing about healing and trauma through these plants and mushrooms and etc. Can ask George, because you're saying it, and I don't know you're aware when you say it, are you, is there any sense of like how that might be perceived when you say about that? Only because your manner changes slightly when you say about doing that, which I, for me personally, and everyone is conscious of who's gonna hear this and what their perception might be, but I sense when you say it that there is at least, are conscious of people's perceptions about it. Yeah, for sure. This in this place you don't need to be at all just so you know, but I do I do acknowledge that yeah, there's a no, I'll touch on that just purely because I think that it's something that can be looked at either two ways, know, many ways. Everyone's got a different perspective on it. But I just wanted to be clear, like, if everyone's on their own journey and their own path and they make their own decisions based on the information that they have. So the reason why I said, I'm not an ambassador for or an advocate for it is because I feel like if you genuinely feel called towards it, something of that sort, it's not for everyone. But if you genuinely feel called to experience that world, then go for it. I would support that, but also support the people that aren't interested in it. And again, for me, it's not a party. I know you Because that is a of yeah, yeah, there is a there's a strong perception of it. So, yeah, always just suggest like, and then talking about it's like, okay, if it's something that resonates with you, then go and do your research, go and have a look a little bit in deeper into it. And don't just like jump into because it sounds cool, because someone's telling you to because that's probably not the right idea. But I've listened to Joe Rogan and he would be less on the fence. He would be like, right, this is what everyone should be doing. He's a little more like that. And I'm not suggesting that's what we need to be at all. But I think as someone that hasn't done that, but is also of the mindset where I can see the benefits doing the research, doing the reading, having that seed planted in your mind, which then makes you think, actually, this whole perception of it is one opinion, but actually all the benefits that you could get from doing that is another thing. But I go back to your key point, which is you start to digest information that you wouldn't have listened to read, taken in previously and your mindset changes, doesn't it? And that seems to have been what happened over a period of time. It's a feeling, isn't it? You resonate with something or you don't. And it was just something that I felt like I resonated with. And I had to really be honest with myself and treat it seriously rather than a case of like, how come I'm this stuff to try and run away? Because that's an easy option as well. You need to be honest with your intention, you know, because it is something that you can get lost in as well. Again, you know, it's like anything. It's escapism as well if you do enough of it do it for long enough whatever it is So there's that to be aware of and conscious about as well. So it is a touchy kind of field that can be discussed. I just wanted to kind of... painting the picture just from my perspective and where I stand on it. But yeah, was, again, I just see it was something that resonated. So I started to hear about retreats and things in the Amazon and in Peru. And I was, after listening to that stuff and over a time period, I kind of got drawn into having a look. And yeah, again, long story short. decided to eventually book a retreat but I couldn't get to it because of Covid and Peru was still closed so they offered like I can change it to go to Mexico and Didn't feel right at the time. didn't, I didn't, was like, want to go to Peru. So I was waiting it out, waiting it out. And it was my birthday, 2021. So around that time again, there was this moment of where I was like really felt drawn to, to, to get in a way and to, to, to experience in this, in a, in a retreat setting. Um, and to just to tell you what it was, it was a retreat for, um, I don't know if you've ever heard of Ayahuasca. that is what immediately came to my mind when you were speaking about hearing on podcasts. Yeah, so it was a retreat for that and another plant medicine, etc. But that was the thing that I felt called towards. So I booked my flight and I thought, you know what, I'm going to Mexico. And three weeks later, was on the plane, 11th of November actually, just over two weeks later, I was on the plane. And that was the next chapter that began there for me. Yeah, because I went to the went to the retreat center and an amazing experience came out and for you know what? I'm going to spend five days in Tulum. Done. It was my last day. And just to tell the story so you understand is. I was still somewhat involved in the Vine. I didn't have an active role. I was helping my sister out where she needed. I would DJ on a Saturday if she needed. But I made the decision that I wanted to leave fully at the end of that year. Right. So now I'm end of November and it's my last day in Tulum. And I'm sat at a table in a hotel in the jungle, beautiful setting. This is nice. And like sent from somewhere, a lady appeared next to me and I had a hat on the table. I was just eating lunch and she voiced over and she said, I like your hat. Obviously as you do you start to talk. I told her my experience. I've just been here for a week. I'm flying home tomorrow. said I'd love to be here. I'm leaving my business and I've got like to figure out what I'm doing with my life, what my next chapter is, what I want to do. And I said like I'd be amazing to stay here. I've always wanted to travel, blah, blah, blah. And she just turned around to me and she said, when was the last time you actually listened to yourself? And I was like, yeah, it hit me. It hit me. And I was like, you know what? You're right. Because I spent so much of my life doing things to please other people. And with their, putting them before me, putting them ahead of me. And actually, this was the moment where I could make a decision for myself and actually do what I wanted to do now. And I wanted to leave the vine. And I wanted to stay there. And I wanted to go and experience what that side of the world had to offer and just be in a moment of going and doing it for me. So ended up coming up with this strategy with her. Like to call my sister and be like, look. This is all over lunch. All over lunch. Right. So you've been a stranger. now this is... coming into force. Wow. So she told me to call. So she was like, look, how do you feel about that? Obviously, I needed to honor my sister, like my business partner and be like, look, this is where I'm at. If you need me to come back, I will. But this is where I feel like I need to be right now. So I respect you enough to say that. And yeah, my sister being my sister, she was like, you go and do what you got to do. And that was the beginning of like this whole journey of two years traveling, which ended up. At the end of the two years, pretty much here and there, flying around, back here and around, but to different places, it ultimately led to the moment where Roll Boys was the idea for that was born. So yeah, that was a whole journey itself. God, mean, yeah, yeah, can imagine. mean, yeah, two years, two years of stories and lessons. I can imagine highs and lows, you know, we want to believe that everything is just this upward trajectory when we start to rebuild or rebirth. But there's going to be pitfalls along the way that knock you back down. But we are we are here as well to talk about this journey. But also what I say the end product is it's still a work in progress. But we're here to talk about Rollboys too. So you come back, talk to me about this. Let's bring it to the point where, what's the catalyst for Rollboys? Where are you when you think, okay, this is going to be a thing that I want to try and put some energy into. Honestly, just before that I was lost Completely lost. Yeah. Yeah what I wanted to do. Okay. I had no idea. Yeah, I was now in the US The money that I'd taken from the from the business my half of it which funded me to travel for that time Yeah is now And I'm in LA tried to work with a guy on his food truck business, which is a whole different story. Obviously it didn't end up working out. So I left LA. I spent six weeks there. This was June. This was May, end of April, May last year. So 2023. And I was, this didn't work out. I was like, what am going to do? literally money was at the end. So... I found this, I don't know if anyone's ever heard of trusted, have you heard of trusted house sitters? No, so it's this website where basically you go and house sit for somebody and you look after their pets when they go away. So I was like, all right, I was having a look on this website because I had no money to pay for rent. I had no money to pay for nothing. Well, at the time I didn't know. I had no idea. So I was just trying to extend this thing and like in faith that would something would come alive and something to figure something out. So. Yeah, one come up for this guy's house looked like a really nice house in Houston in Texas. So I messaged him. He messaged back. Agreed. Two days later, I'm like, if I'm doing this, I'm coming. I'm going. So he's like, yeah, we're doing it. Let's go. Jumped on a plane, left LA, flew to Houston. got an Uber all the way up to his. In the woodlands beautiful area like a really wealthy area like had a beautiful house He was a his name his name was Ernie. He was a retired airline pilot of 40 years Mexican guy, right? two dogs big house swimming pool Walked into his house. He's welcomed me. Hey Showed me the room gone up to the room He's left me alone for a bit and he's come back about five minutes later and he stood in the room. He goes look So my plans have changed. So my mind starts thinking, no. goes, what is going on? And he goes, I'm not going anywhere. My plans have changed. He goes, he's going through a divorce and the whole story goes, basically I can't leave the country. Mexican residency. He hasn't got his green card after all this time. Long story. He goes to me, well, You can still stay here. He goes, if you just don't mind me being around, you can look after the dogs, et cetera. I was like, yeah, cool. I said, I really don't have anywhere else to go right now. I said, my situation, I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing. I'd be really grateful if I could actually just hang around until I know what I'm doing. Two weeks, the whole trip was planned, meant to be for the theatrical agreement. This is against... the trusted house at policy. I can't imagine anything he's planned for at this time. So I ended up being like, you know what, I'm going to just see this out. got no other choice really. So stayed there. And we ended up being getting on really well. He was such a cool guy. 40 year pilot now turned entrepreneur. He owns two or three gyms, number of different properties. He's very much driven. And we had some amazing conversations. He showed me around the area, took me to this bar that he liked to go to, went for late night tacos, introduced me to some mezcal, some really nice mezcal, sat up with him drinking, talking, watching baseball. So it was amazing for It sounds like it could go either way in the States. It's either the start of a horror movie, where you're trained to something and kept there for weeks on end. But it's gone the nice way. Don't get me wrong, that did cross my mind. I have been sat there going shit. I've seen too many horror films. Originally, when he first told me, my mind went, fuck, what am gonna do now? Like, where am I gonna go? Like, if he tells me like, have to leave. Yeah, yeah, because I'm in a mindset now where I've not been in that similar situation where I've got nowhere else to go either. So you're in that kind of dual route that either path you're like, wait, I've got way up the risk. Yeah, I got nowhere else. just went with it the time because I was like, all right. So it was that time when like, um, um, yeah, I started to, to like really have some really interesting conversations with him about myself and business and what I wanted to do. And I said the problems with my. my dad and like leaving that business and then figuring out what's next, blah blah blah. And yeah, he just offered me some real wisdom, like just gave me like this belief to just go for what I wanted. And at the time I didn't know it was cinnamon rolls. It's quite a leap isn't it to get to that point. But the whole backstory of that is is is not for now because I've got to be conscious of time but it was that again it was a the short story of of how it came about was Years before I tried Cinnabon right and I saw the brand and I was amazed by this product I tried it in an airport in the US. I was just I was just like something that warmed the soul yeah, And that was where it was planted. But I looked at Cinnabon and I was like, over the years, I looked at it and I was like, such a dated brand and there's no innovation with their products. It's just like they've done that product really well. They introduced a few other flavors, but the possibilities are endless with the product. And I just looked at it and I was like, as the time went on and my love for one concept ideas. like doing something and doing it really fucking well. It kind of drawn to me like over the time. that there was the possibility to create a really cool brand that done cinnamon rolls, sweet rolls and savory rolls and just really be creative with the flavors that you can do. And I was in Mexico, I was in, sorry, I was in Mexico. I was in his house at the time in Houston. And I called my dad. And I literally like was on the phone to him and I said to him about this other idea that I had, which wasn't cinnamon rolls. I won't go into that. Not to confuse the story. But the original idea was not for cinnamon rolls, but it still food based and I wanted to use his kitchen. So I called him and I was like, look, I've got this idea. How do you feel about me using your space? He's like, you can use the space. I just don't have the equipment. great. And then it came to my awareness that he's got this, he had this massive stand mixer, like commercial stand mixer that I thought I didn't know if he still had. So there I was on the phone again to him, was like, Dad. have you still got that stand mixer in your kitchen? He's like, yeah. I was like, can I use it? He was like, what for? I said, I wanna, I've changed from, it was Smashburgers, the idea. I've changed from Smashburgers. I said, I'm gonna do cinnamon rolls. He's like, what do mean? I was like, yeah, just different kinds of cinnamon rolls. He's like, just cinnamon rolls. And I was like, yep, that's exactly what I'm gonna do. Because it was something that I can go and start straight away. I can work on it and there's no real overheads, no real costs. I'm going to chime in. You've got no history of baking, no history in food production, but you decide that you want to start a business doing cinnamon roll. I love it. Part of the appeal to the brand in the first place is that you have not done this before and I love that. It was absolutely, it was naivety at its finest. just felt I was back against the wall moment. I felt like I needed to do something. I wanted to do something. I was ready to do something. I just was waiting for the right opportunity. And I was not willing to compromise on my life. I knew that had it in me to create something from nothing. And I could have turned around, I'll fly back home, get job, figure it out. But I just wasn't willing to do that. So at the right time, the universe had put this opportunity in front of me. mixer. Yeah, the stand mixer. no baking experience whatsoever ever and he agreed to it the name came to me like that whereas any other crazy idea that I've had in the past was such a struggle to get the name but this came to me and I was like yeah that's it found the guy on fiverr to create a logo the logo for was going to ask what the inception of the logo was as well. That was Fiverr. Great advert for Fiverr. The actual text was a friend of mine called Max. He's done that great great graphic designer. Really good really good kid. He done that. But yeah all everything aligned and I'm still in Houston. I'm booking the flight home for three days later and that was when I got into the to the kitchen and made the first ever batch and I guess the rest is history. So there's another question as well and I'm saying this with a smile on my face because I'm just I'm thinking about How far I go down this route are thinking of an idea never having done it before so the belief that you must have felt and If anyone listening to this at no joke knows George and knows roll boys Which I think a lot of people that listen to this episode will and then if you don't you will go on to know George and roll boys anyway but yet The brand's amazing, but to go from that idea, did you get the logo, the name, all done before you'd made your first batch of rolls? I love it, but again, that belief in yourself to come back and do it. And I'm sure, you know, I'm sure again, there's that little self doubt, that little thing creeps into your mind. What did the first batch turn out like, George? Because the look and appeal of what you create has been something that, like I love food and when you mentioned Cinnabon, I love the States, Cinnabon was just this, mate, there's something about it, it just tastes incredible. The visual appeal of your product now, you only have to go on your grid on Instagram and it's just like your mouth starts watering. That's a huge part of it because not everyone's gonna eat what they see if it's not appealing. So you've got to get there. I was, from day one, I've been extremely, you know when you have a vision, and you have, you know how you want it to be. And I knew, I was like. I knew I wanted the product to appeal, like to look great. I wasn't settling for anything less. And it was a development process. There was a long, nothing natural to me. had to learn on the way. I had no idea about dough. I no idea about nothing. What I was, I was a creative and I knew how to create. I am a creative, and I knew how to create something. And I even started... Like a lot of time people would wait and wait and wait and wait and then be like, I'll wait until I've got the perfect product before they do it. I made the video and announced like I was doing something before I'd even got the final product. I was like still at the early stages. I just knew that this was it. There's an adage that I use a lot of the time, done is better than perfect. Like getting something out there and then iterating or innovating it as you go. Don't get me wrong, you've got to not be like, especially with food production, don't kill anyone because that'll write you off very quickly. yeah, done is better than what you have, stop trying to chase the perfection of it because there's always room for improvement and development. So yeah, that's what kind of my attitude that I took towards it with like, all right, I'm not, I'm not an experienced baker. I don't know anything, but I know that this tastes good to me. Like, and my friends liked it and my family liked it. So I kind of got it to the point where I know how I wanted it to look. And as I just went, all right, let's go. started how I started like with the marketing at the beginning and this is the side of things that I love is like creating side of it I announced like I didn't tell anyone what it was just called just now say it was roll boys and then I just done a number of like teased dropped videos of things that anything to do with rolling yeah bowling alley or women on skates or just like videos of like this kind of thing until it got to the point of where I was ready to be like, okay, so now we're starting. And I'd done that for about three weeks and then released the role was the cinema roles and done the launch day. And then, yeah, I opened the doors and the feedback from then was like, I didn't know how it was going to go. People tried it and straight away their response and the feedback was, this is amazing. This is incredible. And I was like, all right, maybe I've actually got something here. So I just doubled down and just carried on the train. That's crazy. From outside looking in, I've got to admit, St. Tineo George, I've not tried your product yet, which I will change at some point in the future. But... It's the queues. It was just insane, like the pop-ups you've done. So I remember coming back from, I think I've been out somewhere going past June Storm and seeing your pop-up then and it was just mental. Like so, so busy. And I feel like for anyone listening to this, we've skirted over a few of the more, we could have gone into a lot more detail on some of the things that have happened over that course of Rollboys specifically, but I almost don't want to detract from some of the content that George has put out there. Go on to George's reels. You can piece together some of the stuff that you've been through already But I've seen the documentation or the documentary style stuff you do of the pop-ups and it's sleep deprivation it is Being completely overwhelmed by the the demand for your product Which is a much better scenario to being the no one turning up but it's shit scary and it teaches you things along the way But I saw the June store pop up. I was like no way I'm getting in there. Yeah I saw the queues that each time you did and I committed on the last date of the pop-up I'd do it and then I was with the kids and I'm like can't queue with them either but just amazing like and I've heard amazing feedback but Amy who's very so Amy who was on the previous season like is very discerning with her food and she said they are just mind-blowing. a real big supporter and a partner. Crazy mate like so yeah absolutely anything. Yeah have got some amazing places they've eaten and things they've eaten so to get either of them saying good things about it is good but so many more than that, they've got an army of followers. Yeah, do you know what, because you know going from the past and creating something where I just didn't, like I was lost in, I needed to create something that was more fulfilling and more meaningful and had a purpose to it, you know. And that was what my every intention was to do this. It wasn't just about baking cinnamon rolls, you know. I was telling the story and creating a human connection, you know. That's what's missing from so many brands out there. And I just wanted to give you that feedback from my perspective. It's the brand and the community you've built. As someone that has never eaten a Roll Boys product, I'm bought into it and I'm a fan of what you're doing. I've never eaten it. I mean, I could eat it and be like, this isn't great. I don't think I would, but the community that you've built around Cinnamon Rolls, it's just mental. It is mental, but an absolute byproduct of the passion you're putting into it. So I just wanted to say from my side, yeah, I hope it continues. Your content you put out, I'll mention something that I did raise think I mentioned it on the podcast, I was talking to Bex and Amy, and I remember you did... Was it Thursday? The late night shopping thing? Yeah. And you just did this version of this video, and I'm thinking, Just get to the fucking point. You didn't say what you wanted to say, but it kept me hooked. watched that video three or four times and I liked it. And I was like, I want to know what he's talking about. And then I think you ended it without ever talking about what it was. One of the best bits of branding I've ever seen. I want to emulate that. It was so, so good. So yeah, just props to you. Cause I think you've obviously got like whatever your baking skills are, you've got very clear talent for building brands, which it's been amazing to see. No, I appreciate that. You know, it's something that I feel very passionately about, you know, I think like, like I said before, like a creative, I really am a creative and, and I've only just really recognized that within myself through this process, to be honest with you, you know, I knew that I knew how to, well, I guess I've actually figured out that I can storytell and, just be in this position where I'm not afraid to like, don't, I'm not afraid to like just put myself out there a little bit, you know? I'm naturally pretty much an introvert. I am an introvert, very much so, but when it comes to like something like this, I do it for the cause of the brand, you know? And almost like it's... Yeah, it's just such a passion to be able to put a creative spark on something without any limitations or restrictions. you haven't got anyone direct to me telling me, well, you can't walk down the street in a banana outfit or which looking back on it, I actually think what the fuck is going on? And the thing that's where like that's what I like is to create something like, like it's creating a demand, you know, but it's doing it in a way that's not I'm not trying to con anyone. I'm not trying to rip anyone off. I'm not trying to take anyone's money, but I'm like genuinely interested in creating something that people genuinely want to be a part of and feel a part of, you know, and they want the product and they want to wear the merch, you know, and that's what drives me. know, the bake inside of it, I create the product, great. As it grows, I'm stepping away from that. You know, I'm focusing solely on brand building, creating, and just building community. It's word that's thrown around lightly, heavily, sorry, it's thrown around a lot, but it is something that is so at the forefront of my mind, is like people first, you know? Because I think this is much a conversation about... marketing and building a brand as it is about the specifics of what you built with Rollboys. And I think in the age of AI, which was a common conversation I was having in season two, we're going to see brands with less heart behind it, in my personal opinion. I'm from a family of creatives. My brother's an artist by trade. My mum's an artist by trade. I've ended up in recruitment, but I've got elements of me that I acknowledge are creative. And I just see AI and this leaning of this automated creation of creative content is taking the heart away from it. So to see the man behind the process is why people can buy into what you're doing. Yeah, it's a people don't buy what you do they buy why you do it. Yeah, that's a common statement, but it's It's true, you know, and there's a connection to the person and they become invested in in that and I recognized that you know And Yeah, there's obviously strategies and methods around like The way that you start by the us that story tell A lot of it, to be honest with is actually just very impulsive. I haven't now down strategy yet, but it's something to learn by. But that whole people feeling connected to the brand, want to see, they don't just want to see the finished product now. You know, they want to see, okay, what happens to actually get to that point. people are more interested in that process, in that journey, rather than here's the actual finished. Here's the shiny thing at the end of it. Yeah, I thought it was great when you got the old The head strap for the GoPro as well. Yeah, that's all trial and error as well. You don't know if anyone's gonna buy into seeing head cam footage It's a good it's a good approach Yeah for sure people just want that level of insight that I don't think a lot of brands are willing to give especially startups because you want to put across this veneer of being successful before you are. No one buys into that. I'm honest about the fact that the business is five years old as of Sunday. And I'm still learning as I go. I'm still right on the edge of sometimes some months, some Saturdays going, is this going to last another month? And I'm honest about that. I'm not pretending to be something I'm not. And that, again, for what I do, I think people have bought into that from a brand perspective. mean, long may it continue for you, First of all, congratulations on five years. Thank you very much. And thank you for being honest and open as well. I think it's all about that and again the aim of this podcast is to have honest conversations. There's no point glossing over like the harder aspects because these are things that a lot of people have to face throughout their career and work you do for the majority of your life. So facing up sometimes those difficult decisions to change something to make it more bearable or even something that gives you something from it rather than it just draining you to the point you retire or die. this can inspire people to do something to change then that's what the whole podcast is about. What's next for the brand George? I'm sure you've had opportunities or could buy opportunities to rock up at festivals or any events like your Sunday craft thing or whatever you wanted to do. But I can see again from what you film and what you share that's not what I to do. There's a vision, there's a concept, there's a business model, there's all of that tied in and yeah, I could have gone to markets and done events, doesn't align. My product is to be served fresh and warm, always. It's not to be sat there at a market table all day. So I've said no to markets. Box Park and other places like that, big brands wanting to put Rollboys into their place. I said no, because it's not, I don't want to be in a place where there's so many other brands around and you can get lost and stuck in there. Big thing to turn down, big things to say no to. So I have that and I'm committed to it and I'm sticking by it and that's why it's been so difficult this journey because I've been stuck true to my vision. Yeah, do you know what you remind me of my brother a lot? Like he's approached to his art and the way he wants to sell it, the way he wants to create. He's been so zoned in to how he wants to do that. he's like, I admire anyone that can not selling out such a broad term. And I think it might be inaccurate in this one, but you get what I mean. Like not to just say yes for the sake of money. because you know it doesn't align with your vision and your values. that, and you, you remind me a lot of my brother. sit here and I can hear Luke saying exactly the same thing. He got a very big Instagram following very quickly, say very quickly, took him years to build up to what he did. But when he got to a certain level, started getting the sponsorship deals from people that weren't related in any way, or form to what he was doing. And it would have bought him in a lot of money and probably would have paid off for a lot of the stuff that he's having to. sort out now, but he just said no to it because it diluted the brand. So there you go, mate. Yeah. And you can see that honestly, you can see that you can just get that sense. I need to introduce you to my brother. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to ask you a bit of a cliche question. Yeah. And it is for your advice, which I think you've given a lot of advice along the way through the story you're sharing. what advice would you give to someone who's feeling a little lost when it comes to what they want to do for work? maybe based on your own journey of looking into yourself, but what would one bit of advice be? Faith. Honestly, man, I think in my perspective, like everything that kind of has happened for me along this way has happened for a reason. know, everything that I've gone through in the past has built me up to this moment and continue and will continue to do so, you know. But one thing that I had was I always believed in... I've had my own doubts. was like, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying I'm sat here, I'm perfect. I don't have fear or doubts or anxiety because I suffer from all of that. But what I have is this deep underlying knowing that there is, that I have the capability and the belief to do the thing that I put my mind to, you know? And I think it's, again, faith is a word that can be thrown around. Yeah, the connotation. at but if you believe in something and you can truly feel it within your heart, that is calling you and it won't go away and it's just whispering to you, whether it be leaving your job, whether it be starting a business, whether it be you're too scared to go for a promotion or anything like that or you feel like there's a calling towards that. then just take the necessary steps one at a time. Don't rush and overthink and be in this position, to say don't overthink is difficult because a lot of people do. We pressure ourselves to actually to be successful fast or to want everything now. But if you take one step at a time, and it truly feels right for you, then it is a matter of just keep pressing on, just keep going, just even take the first step. towards that. might be a Google search, you know, about a product that you want to sell or a business that you want to start, or it might be a question to a friend that leads to something else, then that leads to another conversation and all of a sudden things look right, that they can actually happen for you. But if you're in that moment, if you're in that process of actually really feeling like you have nothing and you are, and there is nothing going for you and that you are, that have nowhere to turn, just keep going. Just make, just every day just keep pressing, just keep going. And yeah, just believe. faith and belief I think is the biggest two factors that I can say. I get it. Like you say, faith has different connotations and I think that belief in yourself that you are worthy of something happening for you as well. Because we all are, like we're all sat here and we all have the ability to do something. So just taking little bites at that and making that infinitesimal progress all the time. It's something that I've had to get more comfortable with too. I think when I started off my business, I wanted to achieve all these things. Very quickly and then you realize actually just by turning up every day you one step closer to achieving those things, too It doesn't always have to happen straight away. And I think it's because we become so Focused on the end product and not the journey So the cliche I use a lot and I used to use this in a lot of my copy Is it being about the journey not the destination like you have to in show have to get something from every day? Otherwise, what are you what you're doing it for? It's a big old mission to go on if you can't enjoy the smallest... George keep going mate, because I love it. Like I said, I'm loving being on the journey from afar with you and what you're sharing and the bits and pieces you're giving. You're giving this level of insight that I think is really rare. Thanks. Which will inspire people whether you know it or not. You don't need to do a podcast to do that. But yeah, everything you're putting out there is inspiring. We've got two more things to do. Go for it. So I've introduced a quick game of this or that. it. On this. So we've done this and then we've got. the closing question from my mum. Which is sticking around for season three as well. So this or that, just 10 questions. You need to give me an answer as quickly as you can. So try not to give it too much thought. Number one, sweet or savory? Number two, go out alone or collaborate with others? Collaborate. Three, nutty toppings or fruity toppings? 4. Baking for breakfast or late night cravings? Breakfast 5. Seasonal flavors or year-round classics? Classics 6. Embrace, change or stick to tradition? Spicy kick or sweet finish? 8. Rolling dough or spinning records? I'm glad you're being honest. this is another one number nine DJing in a club or baking in the kitchen Number 10, long customer queues or a packed dance floor. There you go, thank you. I tried on that one, I wanted to give you a few, but it might be slightly harder. Right, closing tradition, which my mum is still being put on the spot every day, usually the night before. I send her a quick voice message, I mum, I need a question to this guest. She's like, who the fuck are they, what's going on? So anyway, I'm gonna play it down the phone. There you go. mean, my mum isn't vegan, just so you know, but she's asking the question. Okay Right Okay. Yeah, yeah. And I guess make the product taste the way you want it to taste. It's real. Thanks for getting involved for that moment. George, it's been an absolute pleasure. I know we had a little bit of a bumpy road from my side getting this book in as well. So thanks for your patience as well. you've been a legend, I really wish you best of luck. Thanks for listening to Jobsworth. If you enjoyed this episode, please feel free to give us a follow wherever you listen to your podcasts and while you're there. If you could take two seconds to rate the show, that would be awesome. You can follow Jobsworth on Instagram where you'll get teasers for upcoming episodes, some behind the scenes videos and the occasional bit of career inspiration. And if you'd like to learn more about my day job, then feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn.