JobsWorth

JobsWorth - Ralph Tait

• John Hawker

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This week I'm sitting down with Ralph Tait, founder and owner of The Hatch in Leigh on Sea. 

The Hatch has become a bit of a haven for me over the past couple of years. You'll regularly find me there a couple of times a week hunched over my laptop while knocking back some of their incredible coffee. 

As a result, I've got to know Ralph a little better and it was a complete no brainer to ask him if he'd be happy to come onto the show. 

We chat about how The Hatch came to be, how Ralph juggles running a coffee shop while also working in consulting, and the lessons both worlds have taught him along the way. We also touch on what it’s like to put your own stamp on a space that means so much to so many...thanks in large part to the work of his mum, Lynn, and the legacy she built in the local community. 

This was an absolute pleasure. Ralph is a great communicator and, while we may have to fact check some of the dates **adds to to-do list** his knowledge of The Old Foundry, where The Hatch is located, as well as the surrounding area is top draw (Dan Snow's History Hit eat your heart out). 

Enjoy... Ralph Tait. 

P.S. A huge thank you to Ralph for not only being a great guest but also for letting us use his incredible space to record some future episodes. 

Keywords

The Hatch, Ralph Tait, community hub, entrepreneurship, family legacy, coffee shop, business evolution, local culture, innovation, personal growth, consulting, problem solving, legacy, family balance, career advice, work-life balance, entrepreneurship, emotional connection, business expansion, community

Links

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thehatchlos

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theoldfoundry.thehatch

The JobsWorth website is here www.jobs-worth.com

Watch the show on YouTube; https://www.youtube.com/@jobsworthpodcast

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Subscribe to my newsletter 'The Job Journal from GTC'; https://subscribepage.io/TheJobJournal

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Contact the show on hello@jobs-worth.com

you you Hello and welcome to another episode of Jobsworth. And for anyone watching this, you may be surprised to see that I'm sitting in my living room. And I would love to say that's because I'm trialing out a new more laid back approach to podcasting, but it's really because life this week has gotten in the way and I have had no time to record this introduction for an episode that is airing tomorrow. So you have me set in my very pink lounge. sat on my very old sofa. But I digress. On this episode of Jobsworth, we have the owner and founder of the hatch in Leoncy, Ralph Tate. Now, if you are watching this on YouTube, you will see the hatch in all its glory. It's a space that I've been using for a couple of years now. And when I say I've been using it, I work for myself and the hatch has become a bit of a haven for me. I work there. a of mornings a week. Now it's not officially a co-working space. It is a coffee shop at its heart with, as you'll learn, little bits and pieces added on over time. But I describe it as a community hub. It, for me, has played a really big part in my work life over the last couple of years and given me this feeling of not being completely alone and also not having to speak to work colleagues. So it gives you this... I guess the best way to describe it, it gives you a sense that you're working in and around other people without having to talk to them, which I actually really like. But along the way, I've made some really good friends there, including Ralph. And we explore Ralph's journey to actually starting the hatch. We do give a good bit of real estate to Ralph's mum, Lynn, who, if you know anything about the hatch or know anything about the Lynn tape gallery, which was what the hatch was before Ralph took over, You'll understand already why we needed to give Lynne some airtime. She is an incredible person, had an incredible impact on the community, and Ralph has kind of taken the torch with what is now the hatch and used that space to continue. A little bit of legacy, but definitely making it his own thing in its own right. And it was a really inspiring, insightful conversation. If you like a bit of history, we do go into and what the building was before. If you've been to the hatch or if you're seeing this on YouTube, you may wonder how the hell they managed to get a bright green peer train in that space. And we cover that. I know it's been a long standing question for many a patron of the hatch. And it was really good. So I want to say thank you to Ralph, a huge thank you to Ralph, who is letting us record from his space. So you'll be seeing a lot more of the hatch moving forward. I hope you enjoy the episode. Stay tuned. for whatever is coming next week. Hopefully I'll give that a little more time and be a bit more prepared for that introduction. But in the meantime, enjoy the episode and I will see you next week. Right. So first off, thank you so much for letting us use this space. And we're going to go on to talk more about the space as well. But we are going to start with a tradition on the podcast, which has always been the question when you were younger, what did you want to be when you grew up? Go right in at the deep end there. Oh, I should have seen this coming, taking into some of the conversations we have. I don't really have any recollection of anything. guess, I mean, if we go really back, then I probably wanted to do anything that got me to play at Wimbledon or something like that. That's sort of like why I spied to is like, I want to be a tennis player. But I never, I didn't even know what a career was at that point. It was just like, I want to play at Wimbledon, that looks fun. And that's as far as it went. After that... I don't really know. I was just sort of bumbling along through everything. And when it came to sort of choosing my GCSEs, I was like quite interested in fashion. I thought, oh, I'll do textiles. And so that was my sort of first choice about what do I want to do? You know, fashion, textiles. And it was like, it was nothing to do with fashion or whatsoever. Doing textiles, GCSE. But I really enjoyed it. And that's what led me into... some of the stuff I ended up doing. So no job at any point popped into my head. It's a hard question. I was forced to answer this question recently and you'd think after 40 episodes, I would have an answer. And my brother asked it of me and I don't know the answer, if I'm honest. I'm similar to you. I didn't have anything that was jumping out at me. And guess I'm asking people to tap into aspirations they might've had when they were kids. Cause some people then go on to go and make those things careers. But you mentioned tennis. Was that cause you used to play as a kid? You played at a decent level? saw, well, Yeah. You're probably being humble, but you've got these aspirations to go and do the sport that you love too. I used to play tennis, I like watching tennis, but like, you know, once a year at Wimbledon, because that was the only tennis that was on. And yeah, I think it was just like, I want to go at that. And it wasn't even the thought of like wanting to win stuff. was just I wanted to play at Wimbledon. And, but yeah, so I used to play when I was younger and I carried on. not even. I'm hoping. We're recording at The Hatch. I was doing some research on this place and research on the lineage of The Hatch and the history around it as well. Can you tell us a bit more about The Hatch? How you've come to be running the business that you're running from it today and maybe take us back to how your mum was using this space as well. Yeah, I could probably go back a little bit further than that as well. So, you know, the hatch is in a building called the Old Foundry. That's what it used to be, a foundry back in the day. To my shame, I can't remember the name of the company that used to be based here. But, know, years ago they were making like road signs, sort of like the street road name things. And all manner of other little engineering bits. And there's actually, we've got an outboard motor, which was cast in this building out the back, which I've always thinking about putting it up on display, but I don't really have maritime themes. Yeah, if you go somewhere, I just don't want it falling on anyone anyway. basically it used to be an old foundry and the bit potentially you might be able to see behind me if you're watching is the old original bit of the building. So that's always been here. But the bit that we're sitting in recording this, This is where they used to pour the hot metal. So it was just a sand-based floor and corrugated iron, horrible flimsy walls. So there's nothing much really going on in terms of anything worth keeping here. So my mum bought the plot, well, sort of like from the same way to council, and she got the lease on it and she built the bit that we're sitting in. She turned into the Lindtake Gallery. She used to have the Lindtake Gallery just down the road on 59 High Street, we're in 66. And yeah, they moved in here and it's probably about eight times the size of her first shop in here. And back then, the Old Town was a bit of a funny old place. know, there wasn't much going on Monday to Friday. You know, there were pubs still here, probably here at the time. But you know, really, you know, I think, and maybe I'm over blowing it, that she sort of started bringing people down to the Old Town as a sort of bit of a destination. So you saw the potential. You know, there was Mike's Boatyard. It was back there properly, like it all, you know, had a retail beer and, you know, used to service all the boats that used to come in. But there wasn't much else down here apart from the pubs. But now it's much more of a destination. There's the other gallery and et cetera. yeah, so that's the Lindtake Gallery. Sadly, when my mother passed away, you know, I've got three siblings and we were all looking at each other going, Ooh, what are we going to do? We, we wanted to keep the building, but we all had other things that we were doing. and I said, I'll give it a shot, in terms of using this space. my wife and my sister already had a business called Other Letters, which started on our kitchen table, then moved to our shed. And they actually moved in before the hatch started. So other letters was the first, you know, part of the business that moved into this building. And I spent quite a long time trying to work out what did I want to do with the hatch? Well, sorry, with the building. wasn't the hatch then. And I went through a million different things and I went around, I spoke to other business people locally saying, would you make use of it in this way? Would you make use of it this way? Trying to get a sense of what was out there that people were engaging the appetite for what this space could be. Right. So lots of different ideas. Could it be a yoga studio? Could it be a gym? Could it be a shop? Could it be a workshop? Could it be a, you know, shared sort of a working space, co-working space, all of these different things. And one of the things we talked about was it being a studio. And I actually asked the guy, yeah, exactly. And here you go, the dreams come true about it. And he was like, yeah, probably wouldn't hire out a space, you know, for stuff that we do, but you know, good luck to you. And in the end, the plan was to have a small little coffee and ice cream hatch serving outside for takeaway only, just takeaway only. And the inside space, the plan was to rent it out for all these different things that people expressed an interest in doing, but probably not the demand to do one thing. Right. So multi-purpose in the best way possible. Exactly. So almost as the idea was to sort of serve the community is like, oh, you want to trial something with a pop up shop? Great. Hire it off me for a couple of weeks to a pop up. Oh, you want to do a networking event? Great. Hired by the day, you can do a networking event. Oh, you want to do a workshop for this, that and the other, whatever it may be. I just make it a space that could enable other people to try out what it is that they wanted to do. And that was the plan. So the design of the hatch coffee bit is a bit weird. So I built this interior wall, which I thought you can't see, because the idea was it was going to partition off so that the rented space wouldn't be disturbed by us serving coffee and ice cream to members of the public out of a hatch. Yeah. Hence it being called the hatch. Had an issue with planning. Right. So I didn't even open with a hatch because I didn't get planning permission because it was delayed by the council who had questions about returning a window into an opening window. So that was difficult to begin with. But anyway, so it was still called the hatch even though didn't have a hatch. And then the day I opened, everyone was like, we want to come inside. I was like, oh, no, there's the beach. What time of year did you open? Okay, so we're talking about a time of year where people should be out. I was why didn't you go to the wharf or the beach or just not here? Exactly. I'm going to write this space out so not happening. Anyway, within a week I buckled because literally everyone was like, we want to come in and see the bus. It's not a bus, it's a So anyway, I went to IKEA and just loaded up with tables and chairs and suddenly I had a cafe, which was certainly not the plan. The idea was that the hatches would be sort of little thing on the side, but I kept on doing what I was doing. Yep. And I'd have one person just making ice creams, making coffee, simple as that. And then suddenly it's a coffee shop. And then the cafe and the rest of it. So you'll tell me a bit more about your mum. The podcast isn't about your mum, but I feel like she needs a good bit of real estate in this because of, guess, what she meant to the community over the time that she was operating from here as well. And she sounds like an incredibly creative lady, but an entrepreneurial lady as well. But so what specifically was the business that she ran? So she kind of ran two sides of her business. She had a publishing side of her business. So she was posting greetings cards. Her very first product was a calendar. I'm going to get into trouble with my family if I get this wrong, but I'm pretty sure it was a calendar. And was then and now, because way back when, when she first started as a child, she collected old postcards. She used go to antiques fairs with my grandfather and she started collecting postcards, you know. And so she had this massive collection of 250,000 postcards in the end. And she was sort of thinking, what am I going to do with these postcards? So she made a calendar called Then and Now. So she had an old photo of the local area and a postcard. And then she went and took a photo of it as it is now, put the two next to each other, then and now. It was like matching the frames up and then having... Right, You can't do the fancy slidey slidey thing. But yeah, so that was the first product. And then she started doing her own set of postcards. And postcards back in the day were all about commemorating events that happened, be them disasters or happy things. So she did a set of postcards of the new Peer Trains when Princess Anne came down and opened it. the new RNLI station, When the Sea Froze, The Hurricane back in 86, I think it was 86. Not good for dates. But anyway, know, greetings cards came after the postcards and she did placemats using all the old images that she had. So she started her own line of products and then she bought the 59 High Street and started her shop there selling her own stuff, but also other crafty type things. So she was always on the hunt for, you know, looking out for good little gifts, but definitely had an oldie-worldie craft theme to it. That was her kind of thing. When she outgrew that space and moved into here, you know, it sort of exploded into the amount of different things that she had. Still with this more oldie-worldie theme, crafts and stuff, she was very much into her nostalgia. So when she saw the Peer Train, she was a little bit happy about that because it's the right approach. She already had carts and bikes and things like that, delivery carts and stuff like that. how did she end up getting the So the pier trains... So that little pier train had its own holiday. So when the council stopped running pier trains back in the 70s, again, apologies for any inaccuracies, you know, in the 70s, it had been running from, I think, 1949 through the 50s and 60s, and then they got sold. And a farmer in North Wales bought a couple of trains to run along the Clindyno seafront. Okay. Well, again, again, apologies. Well, yeah, I'll take it. I'll take it. But anyway, so he didn't get planning permission to run them along Clendidno Seafront. So they were just left in his field up in North Wales, which is where my grandparents lived. So we used to go on holiday every Easter to go and see them. And we must have driven down the road. with this farm on it a lot of times. And one year they'd cut back the hedges. And so you could actually see this glimpse of green as we drove past. My mom was like, that's the Southend Pier train. And we're like, no, it's not. Why would it be? That's, you know, she goes, no, it is. And she was right. And within a couple of hours, she bought the pier train and we're like, are you doing with that? And she had a plan because obviously she knew about the plan for space that we're in right now. So I got put on a low loader, brought down here, craned in, shut the road and nine months of restoration later it was ready to be the backdrop to her shop. Wow. And I have to ask, because so many people come into the hatch. I work from here a couple of times a week and I don't mean to eavesdrop on conversations, but I often do. So many people want to know how the train actually got into the building. So can you give us an abridged version of how that happened? It's not magic, is it? No, shout out to my dad Andy Tate here. He loves the challenge. He's a civil engineer. So my mum's got the creative kind of thing and he's very much like, I can solve that. It's a problem. I can do that. And so behind you, don't even know that you might be able to see it. There's a brown pillar and there's basically we put actual, there's rail tracks. It sits on rail tracks. Right. And that's what it's on. So before we put it in situ. We put those in the thing. The crane put the first set of wheels just on them outside and it was still in the harness on the back end of it and it slowly sort of moved the crane forward on the thing. Interesting. And then it got to the point where the second set of wheels were in and then we had a turfer, the sort of thing that you'd sort of winch, you know, trees out of the ground or something like that. And that pulled it in. And what I don't remember is how it went sideways. So I remember it coming in, but I can't really remember the process for how it got, you know, so it came in on one angle and it spun around and back in and straightened up. I don't remember the straightening up, but maybe that was magic. So yeah, let's say there was some magic. magic involved. I think people that ask that question, it'd be nice to able to direct them to this podcast for their answer. Because I know so many people, I know a lot of the great people that you have working in here as well serving have often gone in next door, think, to grab your sister or your wife as well to tell that story too. So thank you for covering that. I was interested. never knew. So your mum passed away about eight years ago now. Obviously she had a huge impact. you say, it sounds as if what she brought down to old Lee really changed the way it was used and how often people were coming down here. gave them, I think you used the word destination to come down to. Which is great. She sounds creative. She sounds entrepreneurial. Did that inspire you growing up? Did you remember almost looking at your mum in that way or in that light through that lens that she was someone that had something about Yeah, I mean, I definitely recognized the entrepreneurial element of her. Again, it didn't really make me feel like that's what wanted to do. Maybe I just wasn't thinking anything. You know, it just wasn't in my mind as to what I would do. But obviously over time, you know, sort of I've ended up doing things that are more entrepreneurial. But, you know, when I started, I didn't really have a career plan. I wasn't... all about setting up my own business. think that's quite a startup culture now that people are looking for a side hustle. They're looking for a startup opportunity. That just that vernacular just wasn't around back back when I was younger. So just wasn't on my radar about trying to start a business at all. know, over time, obviously, there probably was something that was sort of like quite deep seated. I saw it and I could see what you know what it was like doing it, etc. So that's what Interesting, because I grew up watching my mum work for herself. She is a creative person as well. She's an artist by trade, like directly creative. But I can't help but think that helped shape me, at least the drive to want to work for myself, seeing her do that. And maybe if you don't grow up around people doing that, you don't have that aspiration or at least you don't see that around you every day. Definitely. Well, all three of my siblings, all four of us, all work for ourselves. Yeah. I wanted to touch upon that very briefly too, because through conversations we've had, it seems that you've all got this entrepreneurial bone in you, which has to have come from, well, I guess in part come down the line from your mum. Yeah, I mean, I'm the only one out of us that's probably had a, you know, much of an office type career. Right. Okay. You know, my brother's DJ, he's DJed from the age of probably 13, 14, all the way through professional DJ and now he's a pioneer and does a whole bunch of creative stuff. And it's really always been, you know, doing his own thing. My younger brother is a photographer and he's, you know, pretty much always He worked for a company for a little bit, but ever since, you know, that little foray, he's done his own thing. Scared him off. Yeah. Well, right. Exactly. of that nonsense. And, uh, and then my sister, she's got her own business with my wife, other letters, you know, but even, mean, even my wife, my, sorry, my, um, my sister's husband, he works for himself, you know? So yeah. Yeah. Something like that. I was going to use the word infectious. You see other people doing it around you and you think, yeah, do you know what? I could go out and do something for myself. It's an interesting point to see that your siblings are also doing that. Right, yeah exactly. You've made lot of additions to the space. You said that you had one idea coming into here, which was to serve coffee and ice cream from a hatch. You're now inside the building. You've added in recent months, DJ nights, the pizza oven, so pizza nights, comedy nights. How do you decide to start introducing those things as you go? Because the business in itself, this is a I describe this as a community hub, whether you do or not. There's a really lovely flow of people. I've met so many amazing people in this space, including yourself through working here and drinking coffee and stealing your Wi-Fi basically. But how do you decide which are the new things to implement and whether they work or not? So not a strict formula for it, but there's sort of probably in my head, at the back of my head, there's some sort of guiding principles is what I want to do. A, I've got to be able to afford to be able to try it. So that can be just an obstacle that if I can't, I haven't got the money to give it a whirl, I haven't got the money to give it a whirl. And the other thing is I got to be confident that my staff are going be able to roll with it. So there needs to be sort of a period of stability where everyone's comfortable with how things work and we're operating in a nice sort of stable way before I start chucking another thing in going, Hey, let's just do it. Another thing. If you're not stable, there's no point in chucking in another thing on top of it. So that's kind of a bit of a golden rule is that unless the basics are all in place and we're all happy, you know, I won't try anything new. And then it's really a case of trying to work out what the demand is, you know, what do I think will work? And I know there's demand for evenings because everyone wants to hire the space. And, you know, I know people like it in the evenings and it is a great venue for it, but it's very, it's challenging for a number of reasons. So I didn't run at it, even though there's definitely sort of money on the table if you see what I yeah, yeah. It's not straightforward. So just trying to get the balance right of what will work for everyone. And by everyone that means my neighbors as much as my customers and myself and the staff. You know, it's got to work on all of that for all those different people. And that's the sort of have to push it a little bit. No, that doesn't quite work. Rain it back in again and try and find what does work. So it's quite, I never commit fully and say, right, that's it. We're a venue. We're taking bookings and get a year's worth of bookings and then, you know, bump into problems that I can't really, you know, I need to sort of edge into things. That's my way of doing it. Have you tried, I mean, I circled back to that because you said when you were looking at setting up the hatch, started having conversations, you gauged appetite in the community, whether that was going to come off. it sounds again, like you do some, I wouldn't say beta testing is right, but a of market research, just to see if there's that hunger there for you to then dip your toe and say, okay, can we, can we trial this? Has there ever been something that you introduced that completely bombed or didn't work? I was bound to be. Yeah. I mean, basically I've been quite, probably quite cautious. And, know, as I mentioned earlier, if you don't have money, you can't experiment. Maybe if I had money, I'd have placed other bets along the way. But really if I'm going to commit a chunk of money to, you know, a capital spend on getting a bit of kit or whatever it may be, I want to be pretty confident that that bet's going to come off, you know, so. took me ages to get to the pizzas. If you go back to my golden rules of before I do something, I also need to know that I'll be able to sustain it. So there's no point in setting something up, going for it and then going, I don't have the infrastructure to carry on doing this. That can hold me back as well. Maybe I should just jump in. with two feet on more things and just give it a whirl and just find a way. But I'm a bit more like, yeah, I just need to know that once it's on, you can't just turn it off again and then wait a bit and then turn it back on again and stuff like that. Do you think is that part of you being risk averse or is that just good business sense? Probably a of both. you I think you've got to take risks in business. That's obviously, you know, sort of well understood. But good business sense. mean, yeah, there's no point in placing bets you can't back up if you sell me. I guess that's what it is. I mean, I guess the pizzas is probably a good example of like, I wasn't fully ready operationally, but I just needed to get it going. I got to the wind turn and it's like I took a bit of a break to do events. So to an extent that was also like started, turned it off, did something different now and turn it back on again. So there's a degree of flexibility that I've had to have anyway. If we use a real business terminology for a second and say minimal viable product for a second, MVP, and that the pizzas might have been your way of testing that during the summer last year, rolling that out. Again, you're making pizzas, but you're just seeing how that works from a business commercial standpoint, again, whether there's appetite for it and the rate upon that and government. And that's thing is like, you know, luckily pizzas are quite well proven in terms of demand for pizzas. It's more a case of trying to get people's head around the fact that I'm not just a coffee shop, I do evenings as well. And you know, it takes a while to get established as one thing and which we've achieved for coffee and now to try and get established for a second thing, which is really quite different. you know, that's another job in and of itself. But yeah, in terms of the MVP aspect of it, you know, it's just like the kitchen is not a fully specced commercial kitchen. Like, you know, if you had deep pockets, you just go to a kitchen designer and say, right, give me the full works. It's not that. So it's fairly pop-uppy and sort of minimal viable sort of like solution to just get the pizzas done. just to prove is it going to work if it is great, and then we'll of like, bet it in and expand the operation and stuff. So yeah, it's definitely that sort of first foray into it, but it's not, certainly not the end of it. And you've got the DJ nights now too, which feels like, love that. And I love the comedy nights that you've introduced too. It feels, when you think of like the personality of the hatch, did you feel that was in line with the personality that has formed here over the years? Or did that kind of challenge that slightly? Is that against the grain of what the, the kind of brand, the hatch brand? Yeah. So I mean, if I think about what I, when I think of the hatch, what I, you know, what I sort of try to, you know, sort of pin it on and it's definitely sort of family focused really. That's my go-to. That's default position on it because I bring my family here as well. And, but sort of, you know, there is an opportunity to do the evenings and evenings is less family oriented. So it's a case of, well, if I'm to do evenings, what would that customer base look like? So it's trying to find the nights that work for, for the people that might want to come for an evening out here. And so we've had a couple of different types of nights. mean, I think I mentioned earlier is challenging. It's got to work for everyone and you know, the nights, I'm not quite sure how they're to work in the future. Definitely demand. Yeah. You know, sort of proven that, but I'm not a hundred percent sure it's right for the space. So, you know, there's definitely obstacles before I could say, right, it's, you know, we're doing nights for the longterm. So that's still an open question. Yeah. I think other things would need to change for me to be able to commit to that hundred percent. So there might be the odd night here and there. I mean, there's one night which I do with a chap called Ben who's amazing, called High Havoc Social. Um, it's as it has funk soul and just the crowd is amazing. Everyone that comes is brilliant. Um, there's local person Karen P. Don't know whether you met her, right? Yep. But she came DJed and you know, she's, she was brilliant. So was a great night and that's definitely in, you know, sort of hummed along with the vibe that sort of trying to get here. It's quite laid back, but you know, had a nice little edge. was going to ask you how you describe the personality of this place. It does feel like that. For anyone that's listening to this and you've never been here before, it's hard to relay that. But it does. If you sit in here for long enough, like I have done, and many people have done over the years that you've been operating, it does have a personality. When I saw things like the high havoc social stuff coming through, I just wondered if that's completely in line with it or that is an evolution as well of sorts. Like you say, you want to make the most of the space. If that means like the after hours or the after dark stuff, know, bring a different think it's a kind of trying to, know, if you wanted to go with a personality analogy, it's like, well, you know, everyone's flexes their personality in different ways. So there's me as dad, Ralph, there's me as run the hatch, Ralph, there's me on holiday, there's me stressed or whatever, know, exactly getting the jobs done kind of thing. And, know, one of the ways I describe what I'm aiming to do is it sort of evolves is not to certainly not move away from where we currently are, but this idea of being on holiday in your own town. So when I'm trying to get the pizzas up and running, I'm not just trying to turn into a pizzeria or restaurant vibes. I want it to feel like, You're on holiday, you're hanging out and it's like, get a pizza. That sounds good. I have another drink. Great. Do I want another pizza? No, I don't. I'll have another drink. And now I another, you know, and if we could do that with some cool music and, know, get a nice vibe going, it doesn't, you know, it's just a different take. Yes, I serve pizza, not a pizzeria. But it's not a bar. It's not a pub. It's just... you know, a place that you might find on holiday and think, this suits, I can chill out here and have a nice time. It's all quite relaxed. So again, that vibe. Yeah. And that really resonates with me. love that. Does it go against some kind marketing rule to not be able to identify exactly what you are? Yeah, I think the challenge with that is because like the messaging is really difficult because, know, say, I'm a pizzeria, everyone gets it. Yeah. And there's no sort of like, what do you mean you're a pizzeria? No, exactly what you're to get. It's synonymous someone's going to come around, take your order, they'll bring your pizzas, you might have a dessert and then you're done. That's not what I'm aiming for. It's just sort of like, this is a nice place to come, we'll play good tunes and create a nice vibe. And if you want a drink, just sit here and have a drink. If you want to have a pizza, great, order a pizza. It's not with table service like, we'll take your order now and once you're done, can you just jog on? Yeah. it's... trying to market that. it really, my sense is going to be that the marketing job will be word of mouth. People will need to sort of experience it. And then go, ah, I get it. It's not, you know, still family focused, you know, so well up for families coming down, know, parents can have a drink and kids can have an ice cream. And then if they want a pizza, they can have pizza, you know, but we'll be open beyond five o'clock coffee hours kind of thing. I genuinely, when I think of this place, it is as that community hub. And I think what's great about it is that you're marketing on things like social media and everything, even though you're marketing different elements of what is this amazing space, it never feels at odds with it. It feels part of the personality, regardless. So you've tied this synergy, whether you tried to make that happen or not. And it's because of so many people know this place. It holds a place in people's hearts. in my opinion. That's a really beautiful thing and quite rare. I think you can get away with it being a little disparate and feeling not as well connected because so many people have just got so much love for it. Well, that's a very kind of thing for you to say. you know, hopefully it does feel that way because, you know, maybe I'm not the best business person. I mean, I have zero hospitality background. So I'm literally making it up as I go in terms of running a hospitality business. So I'm sure there's more efficient and more effective and better optimized ways of doing all the things I should be doing. But I'm still trying to evolve in a way that it makes sense to me. So yeah, I'm sure I'm making plenty of mistakes and you know, that's on me, but I am trying to create something that is, you know, has a certain vibe and isn't just the same as everywhere else. But that'd be lovely for people to hear as well, that you were saying that you're making it up as you go along. Elements, elements of it. Because there will be plenty of people that have come here and seen you around and think, yeah, Ralph must have his shit together. Like he's got the plan. And you do, you are someone that obviously knows, and we'll go on to talk about your day-to-day job and whether you describe it as your day job as well. you obviously know what you're doing. But at the same time, you're not immune to all the elements that everyone else is too. A little bit of imposter syndrome maybe, or a little bit of, I've never done this before, I'm learning as I'm going. So that's going to be quite heartening, I think, to other people that might think, ah, okay, everyone has to do that. Yeah, I definitely think, for me it's a healthy place to be. you think you know it all wrong, it's embarrassing when you become a cropper. you're ready to find out things could be better and change it, then I think you'll learn more. Definitely one for learning as a go. We are proud to be supported by friends of the show and previous guests, the local merchants. They stock some of the finest ready-to-wear brands in the world and now offer a made-to-measure service that, speaking from personal experience, will leave you feeling like a proper celebrity. Sam and Ed are known for phenomenal customer service and are now crafting tailor pieces so good you'll start inventing reasons to wear them. 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So I don't want to get bogged down too much in the details for everyone listening of what you do day to day, but looking at organisational health and strategy and structure of companies and organisations. Has running the Hatch made you better at that job? Don't know. I sort of viewed them quite separately. basically the, well, I guess the thing that sort of crosses over in sort of my consulting, I essentially sort of view my consulting as problem solving. What is your problem? Yeah, let me at it. You know, love to help you solve that problem. And basically I have problems to solve for the hatch as well. You know, so operationally day to day, I've got great staff who nail it on a day to day basis. when there's a problem that falls to me. So there's definitely that sort of, yeah, exactly that similarity in terms of, you know, what ties them together is the need to solve problems. But I guess the solving problems, I find it easy to solve other people's problems my own, probably universal. I don't think I'm special in that. So solving problems for the, you know, the, the, my, my clients. I find just a lot easier. just love that. And I love seeing them come out the other side, you know, with, when they make breakthroughs and they remove, you know, get, get through to, you know, big changes in the way that they work or the way that they work together, or just where they, you know, how they position themselves, talk about themselves, all those different things, you know, that's amazing. And it feels different for me because like, when I solve a problem here, I'm like, right, great, solve the problem. Alright, what's the next problem? Never ending list. Yeah, exactly. They're different types of problems, you know, and I'm possibly more adept at solving the other problems than I am at solving some of these things. I'm no plumber, so if I've got a plumbing problem, there's only so much I can do. And it falls to you, doesn't it? So you're either doing it yourself or finding the person to be able to do it. What's harder, consulting or running this as a business? I don't know, because just the nature of the work is just quite different. One is, quite often you're at a computer for long periods of time and then you have these moments with clients where all the work that you've done, you're taking them through and you're working with them, getting them to change their views or... where you've got conflicts in teams, how they come together and that's very challenging. I have less of that to do in the hatch. And it's more like, you know, there's maybe more operational type stuff to get involved in. But also there's bigger, you know, just a wider range of problems. you know, setting pricing, you know, is kind of a bit of a straightforward thing with consulting. When you've got a myriad of different products that you're trying to sell in a coffee shop and your suppliers are changing their prices all the time. know, trying to get right. So that's always on your mind. You know, so yeah, just it's just different problems, but that's probably where it's but in terms of what's easier. I don't know. You know, I don't know how to judge. was going to ask, just because of the connection to family that comes with this place too, there's that legacy that you're taking on. Does that play a part in how you think about running this place? Are you mindful of the legacy of it? Yeah, so I mean, if you go back to my mom, I mean, you know, yes, she was very creative. She's very entrepreneurial, but she was also very emotionally driven. You know, as I said, she was, she loved the nostalgia and in terms of her making decisions, yeah, she probably was driven by her heart quite a lot as much as her head. She could see an opportunity, but she could also fall in love with opportunities that rang, you know, twanged on her heartstrings. So there's definitely elements of that. This building's meant a lot to our family. How we got built and how my mum used it. So that definitely plays a big part. I think trying to build a space that feels like it's still part of our family is definitely a bit. If I was not cynical, cynical is wrong word, but if I was just purely about the margin and the profit and all the rest of it, I'm sure I could optimize this space in a different way and bang out different stuff that, you know, made loads of money. that's, you know, I don't have the drive for that. don't have the knowledge anyway, but like, I don't even have the drive to push for that. It's got to feel like it's sort of in keeping with where it came from. It's a great North Star. I know I'm using that. know it's an actual business terminology as well, but it's a nice compass to kind of keep heading towards really a point to keep heading towards keeps you kind of direction going in the right direction. Yeah. Should be better at words, but I think it's a nice starting point for you to really keep driving in that direction too. And it's kept you honest with it as well. Oh, for sure. And it's funny because like, you know, defining a North Star for organisations is part of what I do. I have not written one for here. You know, interesting, you know, so like partly a North Star is so that everyone knows where you're heading and sort of like, kind of I'm the decision maker. So who am I trying to corral to understand this is why we're making the decisions that we are and who needs to know the North Star. Maybe it's why I haven't written it down, but yeah. Yeah, I would 100 % agree that there is definitely a North Star that, you know, even if it's not written down, is engrained. enough. There you go. It's an innate drive, isn't it? It's an intrinsic thing that's been passed down to you. Again, the community keep you on path with that as well, don't they? Because it means so much to this space. That's a great thing. guess sometimes it can also be a burden. To a degree, maybe that's too heavy an expression to use, but I feel like maybe that might come into mind sometimes. Yeah, definitely. mean, that's the thing is like there's lots of regulars and you know, I don't want to spook anyone by doing something out of the ordinary that isn't hatch-esque. I see a lot of people seek you out when they come in here as well. Maybe people that knew your mum are making that assumption, but if they see you, they're coming up to you to say hello. You can tell that your mum and Lyn still mean so much to so many people that come in. absolutely. Yeah, you feel that very strongly. So you would add a four, which is incredible. What's the age range? So Ashley's my oldest 17, Oliver's 15, Hiling's 13 and Ida the youngest is 10. 17 to 10. There you go. How do you balance the work you do here, the work you do in consulting, and then being a dad? That's quite a broad question. Yeah, and that's the thing is that I think the beauty of working for myself enables that balance, which I do love. And that's definitely one of the biggest, best value I get from working for myself is that I can sort of flex. know, the guy I consult with, you know, he's very understanding if I want to do sports days and stuff like that, and we can just work with clients to find hours that don't clash with that kind of stuff. And as I say, I've got great stuff here. So day to day, I've got flexibility to, you know, try and solve problems in, you know, particular times versus having a fixed routine. So, you know, I spend as long as I can basically with each of them depend, you know, if you think about family hatch and consulting. going to say you don't mean each of your individual children. guess that's a juggling act as well, isn't it? Absolutely. But you know, so like how much time do I need to spend on a family? How much time do I need to spend on consulting? How much do I need to spend on the hatch? And basically that's just, you know, sort of like moving sliders to make sure that it never goes over to a hundred, beyond a hundred percent. And so if this needs a family, that's coming first. But I've got a very wonderful wife who sort of like makes sure that, you know, if there's something really burning, you know, she's, she's generally got. everything under control anyway. But if it needs me, yeah, you know, I can flex things to go and help. That sounds like a really good partnership with your wife, who's obviously running a business too. I'm asking now for parenting advice, but does getting the balance right become easier as they get older? Tell me it does. Yeah. So when it definitely gets different and well, they're not going to commit to that. But you know, it's just, you know, I always described Pete crazy as when I had the youngest was two. So that was two at the right time of year. could be two, four, six and eight. So I had four under eight and the two year old was just carnage as all two year olds are. The four year old wasn't much help. Six year old certainly wasn't and the eight year old can help. But now you've got, you know, babysitting built in. You've got, you know, independence so they can walk to places, hop on trains, take buses, don't want lifts to certain places. Some places they definitely want lifts to. So that sort of time has changed in terms of the timeline, you need to shuttle them around or do things for them. That's very, you know, school runs have just edging out the door. My youngest is just about to leave primary. So, know, school runs going away, it's a big sort of beginning of day, end of day, like, you know, got to be back for the school run. You know, they've got keys now. So definitely it changes in terms of being different. Yeah, they have different needs and you you've got to look after them in different ways and they don't want you to do certain things and they do want certain things. The challenge just becomes a different one. Yeah, completely. but yeah, day to day doing stuff, I would say, is got easier as they get more independent. Well, that's nice to hear. Thank you. I appreciate it. We've had this conversation a lot, Ralph, while I've been working in this space and getting to know you better as well. And I don't want to give too much away about some of the bits that we're working on. When I think about what my kids are going to do for work when they grow up, I've got two boys, they're going to be four and seven in a matter of the next couple of months. And I, I'm not going use the word scared, but I am. wondering, I'm curious about what the world of work is going to look like for them as they grow up, as we all are, for anyone with children. Maybe what our world of work looks like as well. Do you think career advice for your kids who are a little further down the road from mine is in a good position to be able to help steer them and give them inspiration to go in and find out what they want to be doing when they grow So that is that's big question. So is career career's advice or is you know what I what I find interesting about trying to help children is they don't know enough to engage in the conversation. So the if you try and have a conversation with a child and they don't know what they're talking about that's an uncomfortable place for them to be and I kind of shut that. Right. And then in terms of, you know, the, the advice that's out there, you know, the stuff I poked around and had a look at, it really just goes, let's try and understand you as an individual and see what you might like to do. And it's like, that's kind of backward for me. If you're trying to get people to get inspired to do stuff, because if you start with what they are right now, when they don't know a whole bunch of stuff, you're going to end up with some pretty basic answers. better to inspire them with what the hell is out there and get them to think about all of the different crazy jobs and opportunities and things they could be doing with their lives. Far better way to go with it than start with the individual, which seems to be where everyone else, everyone starts. And I kind of get it because it's like, we care about you the most, so we're to start with you. But it's a bit like, yeah, but they're bit unmolded and lacking in experience to really get it. Yeah. Better start with this huge, wide, wonderful set of stuff that they could be doing and get them going, that, that's for me. And then start coming up with plans how to get to it. Invariably, they won't end up there because they come across something else that's even shinier and better as they head towards it. But at least they might get inspired to actually work towards something and have a reason for trying to do well in exams versus... I've been told I better work hard because otherwise I won't get a good career. That was my approach, definitely, and my experience going through school and college and coming out the other side of it without any clear direction of where I wanted to go. I didn't have the people around me that were... I had aspirational figures in my life, but I didn't necessarily have that breadth and depth of the choices out there. I wasn't exposed to that. As I went through life and found that there were people doing these weird and wonderful jobs, was a minute. I didn't know that was an option. If someone had told me that at the time, maybe I could have explored that route. I think there's an element of that missing from my own experience, if I can go all the way back to when I was getting careers advice, or having those conversations that would have helped shape and mold me into what I wanted to go off and do. That was a gap for me. I hope to be able to plug that for my kids as much as I can. as one person, There's only so much I can do with that. Definitely, especially as there's only so much that your children will listen to you about anything as I find. finite amount of time that my kids will actually engage with me. I'm sure that window will become smaller as they grow up. Yeah, just need to get some TikTok influencers to get them to. But they're probably not even on TikTok anymore, something new. But yeah, I totally agree. I mean, I never really felt like I had any careers advice and I'm not looking in any direction to point the blame at it. I just didn't have any idea to get any at school. My parents were just getting on. They were just really encouraging with whatever I wanted to do. They were like, go for it. But I was only looking like one step ahead. know, I... Get a job, get a job, and then what goes on next? The more the step than that is like, right, I've got to pay rent. know, like, you know, I've got to keep going and stuff. Like, how am I getting through this? Oh, I better get some sort of paid something. And then when I got into that, it's like, right, you know, I'm paying the rent. I'm sort of existing. It's like, do I, do I like this? No, right. I'm going look for something else. What's next? You know, and then there was no sort of career plan. Yeah. Don't do fire and art if you want a career plan. No, it's definitely something I think about a lot with my boys and I kind of envisage this future where they're going to be going through education. I want them to get the most out of it. But yeah, how do I help them do that? And I like to to parents about their approach to it and cherry pick good ideas. Yeah, I mean, for me, you know, I feel really lucky because all my children do do not do really well at school, but they are really engaged. And they do their work and they, you know, I'm not saying they're, you know, I'm not saying they are, they aren't, you know, that kind of whether they're high achieving or not high achieving is by the by, they engage with their lessons and they try hard and you know, they try and do their best. That's what I've ever asked them to do and bless them they do it. But in terms of trying to get them to be inspired to why are you doing it? Why are you engaged and why do you care about trying to do your best? You know, I'm not 100 % clear on how I manage that. But I strongly feel that if there's, you've got a good idea of what it might lead to and why you're doing it. I do sort of lay seeds as to, yeah, you know, if you do this, you might be, you know, that could enable you to do something in the future. So I I don't really know. I'll tell you, do any of us really know that's the thing. We're all making it up as we go along, Ralph. But I think it's nice to be able to consciously, as you say, lay that trail for your kids as you go. You can't, how much can any of us really force our kids down a certain path? And how much will they rebel if you make I'm to ask you for some advice now, not parenting advice, but for people that listen to this podcast, maybe they want to take some snippets of advice. It's going to be as direct a question as what is the best bit of advice you've ever been given? ooh. Can I put you on the spot with that one? Call anything? I quite like, is it JFDI? Just fucking do it. Quickest way to get something done? Do it. I quite like that. In terms of like, if you're not sure and you've got to learn how to do something as well, do it. And then you'll see what works and what doesn't. And the sort of thinking and thinking and thinking or not trying or being fearful of not trying it. You know, children say, I can't do this. And it's like, well, you can't do it yet. You know, just try it, do it. And then you'll see what happens. And then you could try again. And, you know, if you can learn what went wrong the first time, then maybe you could do it better the second time, third, fifth, etc. So I quite like, you know, that sort of sense. I am not saying I'm always doing that. That is, you know, it's good advice. I'm not saying I take it for sure. But I think just fucking do it is a solid mantra. I love that. In terms of like, yeah, if you want to get something done, what's the best way? Well, doing it. Do it. Yeah. And this isn't so much an advice. This is going back to, I think a lot of people listen to this podcast are thinking about the path they're going on. And sometimes that's being a bit more intentional about the route they're going down, whether that's in the job they're already in or going on to a job they want to move into. But how do you define what enough is? it's something that I have a problem with. Work-life balance is key for me and being able to spend time with my children and being present. But I have these goals in business and in life. But how do you define when enough is enough or what enough looks like? In your opinion, how do you define that? I don't think I can because it changes all the time. know, so there is no one definition of it. And if you, you know, I often think of things in dials or in just like things like, that's low. need to turn that up or that's, you know, too focused on the other day, this slip. And it's just a case of trying to balance all those different elements. know, so if I think about, you know, I've focused One of the reasons I mentioned, I think I mentioned earlier is that really like work for myself is I can spend time on, you know, being available for the family and have that flexibility to be around them. As my children need less time from me in, as I sort of mentioned there, potentially I can spend more time doing different things, which enables me to go up, you know, so, you know, that dial will slow down. you know, I'm having conversations with some of my friends about, yeah, children be moving out soon. you know, empty nest syndrome. obviously I've got a 10 year old, so a proper emptiness is a long way. My oldest is 17, you know, in a year and a half. I don't think I moved out until I was 25, Ralph. Maybe accelerate that. Yeah, exactly. So, but I've lost track of what I was saying, but yeah, yeah, so when it's enough, and I don't know, so, you know, is that enough? I got to dial that up because it's not, but that's plenty, so that's fine. I can just like chill on that front and stuff like that. And, you know, just trying to get that balance right of, you know, I've got a friend, they used to talk about, I didn't make so much money this year doing the work that I do, but I had a great year doing other stuff. You know, and then the next year they're like, you know what, I'm going to turn up the money and, know, Yeah, you're looking at levels that you have to tweak every again. And the thing is, you know, I think if you're, I am not making no judgment, you know, but some people will be, I'm all about the family and to hell with everything else, or I'm all about the money and to hell with everything else. I think if you're single minded going off the one thing you might be missing out on others. So for me, it's about looking across and saying, which one needs to be pumped up a bit and which one am I quite happy with as it were. And that's, you know, the and if you can get them all firing all cylinders then you're a w- better. I'm not sure, I'm sure there's some people out there nailing that but I that's rare. Yeah, definitely. Ralph, thank you so much for that. I really appreciate you indulging me on those ones. We're approaching the end. We have a game to play. this is this or that. So I'm going to give you 10 questions. You're going to get two options and you have to choose one of those options, no context, and you have to answer as quickly as my god. I'm going to make some clangs here. No one enjoys this. It feels like pressure, but it's not. This or that. Flat white or espresso. DJ night or comedy night. in winter or Lee in summer. That's silly question. did I write that one? Pizza or pastries. Culture or strategy. They're the same thing. Yeah. Oh, okay. I'll let you have that. Cafe or consulting. Fun as that, quickly. I was gonna say that stomped you that one. Yeah, I don't have a good answer to that. That would change on a different day. Today I'll go cafe. Okay, cool. See front or city. C for city then. Let's go for a city. City on the seafront. You're twisting this game to your advantage. Okay. See you for it. Okay. Appreciate that. Process or people? Pizza oven or PowerPoint? Pizza oven. Okay. Ice cream from Rossi's or pint at the crooked billet? Crooked billet. Okay. There you go. That's it. It wasn't so painful, it? You were really making me feel that I was going to let you get away with not answering those questions, but there you go. Okay. So Ralph, we've got the closing tradition on the podcast. Which is the question from my mum. So other podcasts invite other people to leave questions. I invite my mum to ask questions. I'm going to play this down the mic and see what she's come up with. Okay, wait a second. Let do that again. Hi Ralph, have you got any plans to expand all your enterprises in another area? South End maybe? Or perhaps further afield? Thank you. That's mum's question. what I will say mum at the moment is out in Sorrento probably, I don't know, a bottle of Aperol spritz deep. So you just, you just never know. Yeah. I mean, she's having fun, but any, any answers to that? Why are you planning on expanding? assume that's with an eye on the hatch. She doesn't really care about my consulting moves out there. think she knows enough about that. Yeah, we're going to go with the Let's go to hatch. So probably not. So I think, as I say, no hospitality background, no sort of real, you know, I haven't had a passion through my life to get into this thing. And the reason I love it is because of the people that work here, the people that come here and the space. So it is unique to this property. Right. I've got you. Yeah. You know, so in terms of another site, not really. see replicating this. I mean, it's got so much behind it, hasn't it? we've discussed throughout this, you couldn't pick it up and shift it. I mean, don't get me wrong, I do see spots and I think, I could do a thing with that. And now knowing a little bit about hospitality, I can definitely picture how it could work. And, you know, so there's elements of that, but I don't need a second site in terms of added complexity. But in terms of expansion here and sort of evolving here. If the pizza's come off, I'd love to sort of, as I said, have a properly designed kitchen so that we can do a whole bunch of stuff because we're limited in terms of space and capacity, what we can do. I could definitely see that this place could be, you know, a really, well, having a holiday in your own town vibe. like I can see that sort of going, getting, kicking off a bit. So day. Mum tends to throw a curveball and really gets people thinking. Sometimes it's just random, but I think that's actually quite useful. Ralph, thank you so much. First off, for letting us use this space this evening, for saying yes to sitting down and speaking to me as well. And also just for running this space, because it has meant a lot to me personally over the last couple of years working in Lee. I see this as bit of bit of a haven. I work for myself, I work predominantly on my own and coming here and feeling like you've got people around you has kind of kept me going a lot of the time and two days a week I genuinely look forward to coming down here and people watching, getting a sense that you're part of something without feeling compelled to actually have a conversation with anyone is quite nice as well. So thank you personally because it's an amazing space. Thank you so much. Cheers Ralph. All good! Thank you so much. You're good? Yeah, yeah, I mean, God knows how that reads or comes about. you

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