JobsWorth - Anneka Lange

On JobsWorth this week, I’m joined by Leigh on Sea based sign writer, illustrator and artist, Anneka Lange.

Since moving to Leigh from the West Country seven years ago, Annie has become the go to person for anyone looking to have a piece of artwork adorn their shop, office, building, boat, bedroom… oh, and basketball court.

We explore what it was like growing up in Cheltenham with a family of creatives, how she honed her craft at university before landing her first ‘proper’ job with a well known brand, and the importance of working alongside people who give you opportunities to push your limits.

Annie also shares what brought her to this part of Essex, how she landed her first client after arriving, and why- despite being a super busy working mum of two- she’s got her sights set on developing a side project fusing her love of art, sport and clothing.

Whilst you might sometimes see Annie up a ladder, on a scaffold or somewhere in the vicinity of her trusty toolbox, she’s rarely found in front of a camera- so the team and I feel super honoured that she said yes to coming on and sharing her story.

Please enjoy... Anneka Lange.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 3:06 Navigating Dyslexia and School Experiences
• 6:02 Family Influence and Early Artistic Endeavors
• 9:00 Art Foundation Year and University Life
• 12:09 Career Beginnings and Freelancing Adventures
• 15:08 Working at Superdry and Learning Typography
• 17:48 Transitioning to Freelance and Sign Writing
• 20:57 Community and Creative Opportunities in Lee
• 23:56 Balancing Work and Family Life
• 27:03 The Evolution of Goals as a Creative
• 29:58 The Importance of Community and Collaboration
• 44:59 Navigating Motherhood and Health Challenges
• 47:33 The Creative Pursuit: Merging Passion with Profession
• 51:46 Artistic Ventures: From Tennis to Sign Painting
• 56:46 The Importance of Community and Connection
• 1:02:07 Overcoming Challenges: Confidence and Authenticity in Creativity
• 1:18:32 Closing Thoughts and Future Aspirations

Transcript

0:00

Okay, here we go. But ignore them. Tom, you've got to shout action now. Where's your clapperboard? Start that again, Tom. It's like Tom's got any control over this right now. Tom, can you just rewind it? rewind. uh Hello and welcome back to Jobsworth. This week I sit down with Annie Lang. Now Annie is, I think first off, someone that doesn't necessarily like labels or to put herself in a box. That sounds like a weird thing to say. By that I mean she is a sign writer, she's an artist, she's an illustrator, ultimately she's a creative. But pinning her down on exactly what one of those things she is, is difficult. And I love that about her. think locally, if you live in or around Leoncy, would know Annie best for her sign writing work, her incredible art that she puts on buildings and offices and shops in the local area. And this is a really lovely chat. We get to find out more about Annie's past, a little bit about school and how she navigated that with dyslexia. We learn about her experience at Falmouth. university, her first job out of that, and then what has brought her into Lee, what brought her to Lee seven years ago, and how she's become the kind of go-to person for traditional sign writing. She does so much more than that. We talk about side projects and side hustles and all the things that keep her brain busy whilst making a living as a creative and being a mum. There's a lot of juggling here. I really hope you enjoy this conversation. has a beautiful way of communicating. She is honest and insightful and she gives some amazing advice for creatives too. Just amazing advice if you're someone that wants to change your relationship with work and that's what we're all about. So I really hope you enjoyed this episode. I genuinely mean it. If you have any thoughts or feedback on the episodes as you hear them, please get involved in the comments. You can comment on Spotify. podcast wherever you listen. You can also comment on YouTube as some of you have been and stay tuned for next week. Annie, we're going to start with the opening question to the podcast. eh When you were younger, what did you want to be when you grew up? Well, I was always confused to what eventually I'd want to be, because I had so many things I liked, but it was either going to be a tennis player against Ralph, because he also wants to be a tennis player, or some sort of artist. Yeah. Because I don't know, I just enjoyed everything at school, except for the like boring stuff, like academics. Okay, yeah, yeah. Got you. I was going to ask, because you mentioned in your pre-interview email slash questionnaire that I send out to people that you grew up in the Southwest. So where specifically did you grow up? Chatham so a bit more yeah but yeah I'm a Chatham girl, Gloucestershire so yeah I mean this is a beautiful place to be to come down to. I mean, I'll go back a couple of steps at some point to talk about what brought you down this neck of the woods. growing up in Cheltenham, I wanted to ask you what school was like for you growing up. Because you mentioned as well that you suffer from dyslexia. So I guess that would have had an impact on school. And you mentioned as well that you weren't a massive fan of the academic subjects. So again, I'm assuming that would have played a part. But how was school for you? What was that like? School was good. mean, primary school was literally down the road on the right and secondary school was on the left-hand side. So, yeah, I mean, I very much enjoyed school and but it was quite traditional, I guess, in the sense that like my dyslexia, I didn't discover until I actually hit university. Really? So and I remember one kid in primary school came out that he was dyslexic and he It was the one person in school, wow, he's dyslexic. Everyone in the program was like, he's dyslexic over there. It's like this big thing. uh Until you hit art school and everyone's dyslexic. I think it's like 50 % of people who are creative are dyslexic. um Yeah. And so, yeah, when you get to university, they just like did testing and lo and behold, I was dyslexic. And then you get a free laptop, free books, free printing. It's great. I think at school, When we did actually secondary school, like more towards GCSEs, we talked about it and I think they just offered a bit more time in exams. yeah, I probably failed mostly in those academic subjects because reading is not my thing. To revise, I had to like make games out of the revision. I always was quite, I like to make a good game. So then I'd remember. but then I'd never get through the whole revision. To actually complete the revision to even remember anything. So the focus again for you is more on the creative than the end goal of retaining the information. Unfortunately, think my mom, I don't know, I just had a really good English teacher. had loads of really good teachers. So she always thought I was really, she made me think I was really good at English. So I went to take it for like, AS level. And my mom was like, hey, not to take it, please don't take it. So what are you talking about? I can do this. And yeah, I got a U and just had to drop that one. So did you have much inspiration to go down a creative route at home with your parents? Yeah, so I'm actually one of four siblings and uh we're all creative. I don't know whether it's because we religiously are watching Art Attack, we had to like make our thank you cards and sometimes presents for family. My father's Polish, so and actually sadly my parents use Polish as like uh a secret language. So we never actually learned Polish. That was their way of doing a bit of a sidebar. Yeah, the mother tongue, so mum was the one at home with the kids, dad was out working, even though she speaks fluent Polish, French, Russian, she would just speak English to us. So it's a secret language and we had a Polish cousin that was obsessed with English, you know, every time we'd come over to Poland, we would be the show and tell at her school in her English class. oh She then later became like an English translator, so. She just translate anything we needed to know, but we were just, I guess, lazy with it. Yeah. Obviously, like we had no words and probably understand things. But yeah, I don't know, like drawing became a way of like communication to our Polish speaking family that don't speak English, like the grandparents. What age did you realise you had a talent for drawing? I used to sell uh Disney character cards, like pencil drawings for 10p in the playground. That was big money. Yeah. And then we had like an assembly where they said, you you can't sell anything in a playground just to reiterate it's not good. And I remember then I could draw like Disney characters, which was everyone wanted that. Yeah. Were you told by family members or did you just know it yourself? Obviously the amount of sales would have told you. You had family or your siblings saying, you've got a talent. Yeah, totally. think our whole family were always encouraging, but it was to all four of us who could all like draw or like be very creative in different ways. So they've always been encouraging. So yeah, I mean, it's weird that even though we're all kind of artists, all like our styles are so different. Always competition in our family. Yeah, but like in a good way. Four siblings, I would imagine there's got to be some competition. Yeah, there was definitely competition, but it was more in a fun way because actually our styles again were just so different. in fact, one Christmas, we don't really do Christmas presents anymore. It more be like a Secret Santa or like some sort of challenge. So one year we just had to draw, it kind of like picked out of a hat a bit like Secret Santa, but you had to draw that person. So then my mum just framed them all at home, they're just all different, everyone's in different em style, whoever it is. It's very different when you're setting that challenge for a family that can draw. Because if I did that, well actually I'd be quite lucky. But if you're going to a family that don't have those artistic skills, it's just, I guess there's a novelty behind it, but you've actually got family that can create artwork. Yeah, I actually prefer to do that weird... Yeah, because... Just like childlike drawings, I find them really... I love them so much, like my kids right now. Well, actually one's one years old, she's not really drawing yet. But... Because I find that really hard to do. I feel like my illustration work can be really photographic. Got you. Because I think, like you said, way when you're growing up in the countryside or whatever, it's quite traditional. Like, if you were good at art, you're only good at art because you could draw that person or you could draw that. replica almost of that girl or that person. there was always pressure to draw exactly what you see. Which is where my art kind of was. Whereas, for example, one of my sisters, Aurelia, her work is just really abstract and really free and I really like, I can't do that. Are you, and there's a little bit of not jealousy, but there's a bit of a desire to kind of embrace some of that. Totally, like really try and do some projects like work and I like a kind of attack now my illustration is more I tried to be more relaxed and free because I just I don't think it looks better. Like trying to replicate something It's what kids teach us though, to love art again. When I watch my son, Joel, sit there and I will just, I don't know, it teaches you to be more open to Yeah, university, actually tried to teach us that and there's this one exercise they call blind contours. So you have to, em which really helped me actually, like kind of relax in drawing if you like. em It's where your hand's on the paper, but you have to look at the subject and you can't look down at the paper. But your hand is moving when your eye is moving. It's pretty good. I'd like to do it with you now, but it didn't bring any. I was thinking about this pre-recording that we should have done some sort of drawing challenge, but maybe we can do a part two. Who knows? You went to Falmouth University. And I was looking at some of the other people that went to Falmouth University. It seems like bit of a destination for illustrators. Like it had a really good name in illustration. you were obviously... zoned in enough with illustration that you knew that's what the route you wanted to go down and Yeah, a bit like Peter Nock mentioned about Art Foundation, you do look at this year, where you just try all the different arts out there because there's so many different avenues and I think it really helps to set up which route to take when you get to university. And I absolutely loved Art Foundation year, it was the best. I totally recommend it if anyone wants to do art. And also you could tell the ones that went to university who didn't do an Art Foundation year because they seemed just a bit more naive to things. where we were all a year older because obviously we'd done this year. What did your year look like? What was your foundation year? So what did that entail in terms of the experience? everybody does, yeah, you kind of choose a couple of subjects, like four subjects in the first term, and then you drop to like two subjects and then you specify in the last one, but everybody has to do life drawing. um So yeah, that's like weekly. um And I did illustration and photography, drawing and what else I do, graphics. Yeah. It's funny because both my older sisters are also illustrators. um So I feel like it was... I already had an example of them, like uh inspiration of them going to Art Foundation and then on to university. And one of them went to Brighton and then the other one went to Bournemouth. So thought what's the last seaside? Falmouth, the best place. m What's the age gap if you don't let me ask in between you and your older brother? Yeah, so there's two years between all of us and then my younger brother as well. Yeah, and we, yeah, we're all really close actually, even though... You've seen your older sisters go out and start making money as illustrators too. So did that kind of give you bit of confidence that what you were doing would and could lead to a job where you were making money doing something creative? Yeah, I kind of didn't really think about the money to be honest. It was more just, I enjoy this. like, I've got a skill there. Let's see where it goes. I feel like you have to kind of attack things like that rather than thinking of the end project. A bit like drawing, like you can't think of the final piece. have to, I mean, not really like sign writing, though, but normally in illustration, can't really, you can't visualize the final piece because you have to take it through its journey to get to that final piece. Yeah. That's interesting because you went on from university to then go and land a job at Superdry. Was first one out of uni? actually no, I a lot of running around first, like bit traveling, a bit of random jobs. Cause I um found with the university is great that we actually had a graphic tutor once a week as well as incredible illustrator, illustrator tutor. And she kind of taught us the bones of um like Adobe basically all the software, like Dreamweaver and how to make our own website. And they just set us up as freelancers to leave. Go get the tools. So yeah, all kind of, a lot of me and my friends just left uni to go out into the big, mainly to London, but to the big wide world and start a freelance work. And that's where it began for me. I did loads of free work in London, like staying with different family. I went on tour with a band, on and off for a year. I just went for a ski season, but always drawing, always drawing in a background to make cash, like an extra. And then eventually, I think I'd gone to, I think it was just after I got back from tour with this band and I went to, I've gone back and forth to my parents, I asked so much to live. um And they were just like, what are you doing here? And I was like, don't really know. Where's my next step going to take me? And then my older sister, Alexia, she persuaded me to take this job at Superdry. And Superdry is born and bred in Cheltenham. It's not Japanese. I always thought it was a Japanese business. Is that super naive? Or is that a comedy hell thing? But we basically, me and this other guy, well I say other guy, he was my boss, but was just us two, me and Matt Sharman at the time I was working there, we were just in, like, we just had to draw all the graphics for all the apparel, so boys and girls. And it would be amazing, kind of inspiration trips to America and just anything we could find with kind of some sort of graphic interest. They have got a good success story. They because it started off as coke cult clothing mainly like Cheltenham and Oxford and then a few around other places but jewels Julian Dunkerton started it and it was just a shop so it was a bit like a skate shop I guess and I was a Saturday girl there and loads of my friends were in Cheltenham and it was like Carhartt Fenchurch. It was just like loads of nice brands that we were selling And he was, and then he started the super dry band, his own t-shirts, it was just t-shirts. And I don't know if you remember the Asaka 6, Asaka 8 t-shirt. Yeah, massive 8. And David Beckham just wore it one time. Because he was, yeah, he's kind of like, where is he? He's got an incredible house, Burford, I think. So we're just really close to that. And so he, think he must've gone to the Oxford store or whatever it was. He wore the Sarka 60 and then boom, overnight, everybody wanted a super dry T-shirt. And then eventually he just pushed out all the brands in his shops and made them all super dry shops. But we went into every kind of uh category as well. Not kids clothing, like, yeah, we went into women's denim, we went into everything. When you were at uni, did you kind of ever envisage you working for a clothing or an apparel brand at all? No, like, for example, uh when my sister was like trying to persuade me to take this job, I was like, no, I don't want to be here in Cheltenham. Like I'm a super driver because I've been, you know, I've been doing it as a Saturday girl job anyway when I was bit younger. didn't feel like enough of progress. Yeah, I just feel like was a very it had gone very corporate and it wasn't my style or anything like that. But I'm so glad I did because when I was drawing the graphics with Matty, I learned so much from him. And we would hand draw the graphics, it was like illustration mixed with typography. And he would sit me down and make me do, like, write out, like, draw out all these alphabets. And sometimes he'd give me like four letters and be like, right, you have to make the rest of the alphabet. What is the kind of... links, what's the kind of rules in this lettering? And so I'd have to just make the rest of the alphabet. And that is just, I think, the most incredible thing I've ever learned, really. Because then that set me up for learning how typography works. And then once we'd hand-drawn these graphics, we'd then vector them and get them ready for the em factories. And then we would go off to Istanbul and then we'd see the whole process. And it was incredible. It was the best thing. I've and it's set me up for where I am today for sure. So one of those moments where you could have very easily said no, and by virtue of saying yes, it's then opened up a lot of the avenues that you've come I mean other like hubs and things like that. This is probably the only paid Serious job I've ever had was super dry. Yeah, because I actually left them after about four years went back to London to freelance And then they were like we want you back. Can you come back? So I was like, oh, okay I will so I did I went for another two years and then I know I was like no I'm gonna actually I'm gonna leave now like two really leaving parties there but it was such a great community as well like Superdry has built something really special, whether I'd wear it or not. The quality was really good. Again, James and Julian, I hope you're not watching. But the quality is amazing. yeah, there's such a great community there and really met a lot of great people. just, think when you went to Cheltenham, if you lived in Cheltenham as a designer, as someone creative, there wasn't really much around other than Superdry. Was the brand synonymous with that area? Yeah, and I really enjoy just making t-shirt graphics. And he was a really good graph artist, Matt. So he taught me the tricks and the trade of sign writing. And then when I moved down here, it was just, it was a side thing. like, I've always liked painting on big things and doing like murals and things like that. So the signs, the lettering just came with it. Okay. So Phil, guess bridge that for me then. So you've left Superdrive for a second time to go off and do more freelance work. Yeah, I, because I've got a big interest in sport, I guess. Uh, I was getting other jobs like, like, uh, like sport illustration and things like that. Um, which I really enjoy. I was just, think I was sick of the, like writing the word S like I couldn't think of any more S's to like, draw, like how to draw an S. I think, yeah, I think it was just time. It was ready to move. and yeah. I like every day being different. Okay, which lends itself so well to what you're doing now. Obviously the tradition of what you do is similar, but the outcome, the design, the people you meet, the buildings that you work on. I'm so lucky, honestly, to do something I really enjoy and have that as a full-time job is, I mean, I still do illustration and graphics as well as the painting. So yeah, the painting did actually start as a side project, but when COVID hit, everybody had grants suddenly from the government, like 50 grand, some businesses had to help them. And so they would approach me and be, I need a new graphic. Can you help me design a logo? and I need that painted or I could do that too. So it kind of became this package. then because here in Lille, there's so many, well, pretty much everyone is independent. It feels like the epicenter, season two of JobsRough is all about trying to unpick why that is. Why is the community here so full of creatives and entrepreneurs and business owners and what is it specifically about this place? I don't think we ever came to a full conclusion, not one that I recorded anyway, but there's a huge number of people, the volume is incredibly high. It's amazing. And that is one of the reasons why I've become like I've got him getting a lot of work. And it is quite sad actually have painted over my own work once. Yeah, because like, or just businesses, I think people get this idea and they're like, I've got this shop space. I want to do this or do that. And it's amazing. And then, but then when they actually come down to reality and they're going to that shop every day and, it's maybe it's not as successful as they thought it might be, or they just wanted to trial it. Then some, some people are just there for like three years and then they move on. What immediately jumped into my mind was an existing business wanting a new logo, a new sign, but you're talking about a business that was there. I mean, I'm now connecting the dots and then a new one coming in to take its place. it's been great because then they've just recommended me as the new people. it's, yeah, lot of it's been word of mouth, to be honest. I was going to talk to you about the way you develop business, but I'm going to take you back a couple of steps and ask what led you to Lee in the first place. m Yeah, yeah, fine. Yeah, my partner had a house here. So we just, and I didn't have a house. So I just thought let's live in yours. That was literally just it. But what a place to be when you're right next to the sea, you've got London on your doorstep if you need it. Yeah, they've got everything here. So even an airport. So yeah. You're on a tourist board now, but it is a lovely place. My kid being like, yeah, he's got trains, he's got planes, he's got boats, he's got cars. It's literally like kid's dream here. But yeah, it's just a beautiful place. Actually about seven years, which is crazy to think. So yeah, would have, so the sign writing was a side project and then it's now transitioned into your full time. Do you classify as a full time gig when you're other plates? You've got side projects, you've got other freelancing, I'm assuming you do. I really just need to focus on one thing and it might be better. up a lot of your time and I guess through the conversation we're having, this is how we know of you, which is the sign writing that you do. And do you describe yourself as a sign writer, a sign painter and still an illustrator? Because they all... I don't know, John, I don't know. It depends who I'm in front of. If they need an illustrator, I'm an illustrator. Yeah, I think that's how I have ended up in so many different avenues because when you're freelancer, you just say yes to everything because you need the work and suddenly you're doing, think one time, do you remember those, gosh, what are they called? They were like posters and it was like a pattern on the poster and if you looked at it for long enough, You'd see magic eye Yeah, that's it. And then someone asked me once if I could do that for an album cover And I was like give me three days and I'll give you an answer So I was like literally just like YouTube a how to do it on like sketch Sketchup program and I just learned I managed to do it and I did this album cover but don't ask me to do again because I would not remember but I just like challenges like that and Yeah, I don't know Maybe it's a challenge, like a thing that is always referenced as a kid. I've never even connected the dots. Thank you. I think we've got an episode title. Yeah, I will get a ski suit for my lettering up the ladders soon. But it's great. Obviously you are a creative person at heart. And we've spoken to lot of creative people that just seem to love, how do I solve a challenge? How do I do that? So rather than just shut things off. Yeah. Yeah. As long as it's within that creative realm, let me have a try. I feel like it's a challenge. did quite like maths, to be fair, at school. And then having that with graphics and drawing, it was like, I'm still painting, I'm still hand drawing something, but it has to be perfect, which is a bit like how I used to paint with a photographic way. So now I'm doing letters and it's just, it all kind of connects because it has to be a perfect letter. It has to be straight lines, like, which is... not always easy to do on whatever surface it is, but I think it's all just kind of come together naturally. And I just remember at school when we'd have to do essays or whatever it was in the class, I would just be spending ages on the title of the essay, like literally making it really 3D and cool. And then my friend would be sitting next to me like, I'll start your essay, now do my title. So we just swap papers and like everyone wanted a nice heading and I was just doing headings. You went into your lane fairly quickly, knew what you were good at and got a reputation for it. Yeah, like a bulk of text just scares me, which is quite sad really, because I need to actually face that and I'd probably, my dyslexia would be better if that makes, well don't know how that works, that doesn't really make sense. Yeah, looking at it from that perspective. I'm fortunate enough that I love reading. I love pages and pages of text. Yeah, can't relate. Yeah, I can't relate to you on that one, but I do know what you mean. How to address that is the question. Yeah, I should just read a lot more and then I'd probably be... Again, I think you've found a way of uh a creative outlet and a way of taking things in as well, because you obviously take things in a very visual way. If you love art and you love digesting art, and then that's obviously informing and inspiring what you then go on to create, I'd imagine. Whereas for me, I love art and I love looking at art, but I also love reading. And that informs and kind of inspires me too. But it's not the same for everyone. No, and actually my course in Falmouth specialise in children's books. So they also offered creative writing on the side as well if you wanted to take that up and it was such a good course. I'd see everyone else in my class and just seeing their imagination, it was just amazing. Like everyone's got different styles. it so, yeah, it never felt like competition when you're in a room full of artists because everyone just has their own way of like challenge, like... achieving something or tackling something. Imagine it feels quite collaborative when you're doing that. feels like you are maybe seeing someone that is doing a certain thing again inspires and informs your piece of work and so being in that room together with other creatives. I think so many people that are creative want to be together or seek out other creatives. Yeah, totally. great community around here of creative people. Whatever avenue you want to, whatever your color of creative is, are so many people that do things right. Yeah, and what I meant to say with the Falmer thing is that I think it scared me a bit of having to illustrate. I think Peter Nock was talking about it in your podcast, like how you have to illustrate to a text, to like a, you know, to a book or an article or whatever. And articles are fine because it's not actually that much reading, but to actually portray what someone's trying to say is a lot of pressure. Yeah, it's a big responsibility and accountable for visually interpreting a piece of work and it needs to be, I guess, aligned to it. It needs to respect it. It's a lot to take on. Yeah, I'd rather illustrate an image of my preference rather than illustrating to someone's... uh Or yeah, I get what you mean. I guess a story, if you're an illustrator, whether you're an illustrator being told, I need you to draw this or whether you're an illustrator trying to interpret a block of text, you're still doing it for someone else. Yes, a brief to it. So that's the difference between fine art and illustration. Because they're both really the same thing. A fine artist could just be, it could be just like loads of doodles or whatever, but an illustrator is too brief, like illustration is too brief. not prescribed way of creating something because there are rules. Whereas if you are, as we talked with Peter about, he got to a point where he didn't want to keep creating to briefs. He wanted to create things that he wanted to create for the pure joy of creation. Just kind of From my experience and seeing my, again, I always promise not to bring my brother up, but seeing what my brother does, what my mum does. mean, it's like what they do now, they're fortunate enough to be creating for themselves and they just happen to make money from that. em the dream, think all artists kind of leave university wanting. um So I can tell you what my style is as an artist. So I think that's where I maybe started to veer into loads of different kind of avenues of art, whereas like the lettering or the murals or the, you know, I couldn't, yeah, I don't think you could like look at my work and be like that's Annie's work. couldn't put you in a box at all. I think with the sign writing, you're governed again. It's prescribed to a degree unless you are the one creating the font or that. Or unless someone's given you carte blanche to go, you know, have at it, let's go. There's no rules to that then. if you're doing a logo, if you're doing something specifically that's associated with that brand that you haven't necessarily created, which I'd imagine is the case for you sometimes. But then you've got that string to your bow that you can create logos. then you do end up doing those jobs and oh God, honestly John, I don't know what I am is the answer. Illustrator, sign writer, mural artist. Everyone wants to be able to put a label on someone, but if you can't, I think that's a much better place to be, especially as a freelancer. Yeah, it is. But I do really feel like I've got to a place that I'm really enjoying for my work. Doing the sign writing, still doing illustration and some graphics on the side. I'm a big fan of tennis, so I actually work a lot with an American tennis magazine. And that is more graphic stuff. But it means I just get to be doing, yeah, involving like... I think the challenge of how can I portray a tennis logo that's not an obvious tennis ball or, you know, those kind of things. There's all these different facets that you're able to express yourself through. So you're not short of avenues or outlets to be creative from the sound of it. We'll talk about some of the other stuff you're doing as well in a second. But yeah, it feels like for someone that's got so much going on, then to add other things to that, you could question, okay, what are you doing? But we'll talk about that in a second. Your first ever... sign writing job locally, we are sat in the place that you did it. You told me this, so for anyone listening to this that doesn't know that we record in the hatch, we record in the hatch in Old Lee, so you have done sign writing for Ralph. Honestly, Ralph was my first gig down here and I think we were just walking along oddly and he had nothing. He just had that shelf bit here and yeah, I was just like, oh, if you need a sign or any artwork, know, painting needed, give me a call. And he did. And I had nothing really to show him. I had a few things from like the rest of country, but not anything local. But yeah, he put his... his faith into me and not only did I paint the hatch, he kind of already knew what the logo was gonna look like. He had this like gave me a bit of scrap paper with the drawing on. He's like, can you just sort it like paint like. Yeah. So yeah, so drew that up for him and then the old foundry, they just gave me complete. creative control, like freedom, freedom over. I really, and because I didn't have much on, I really spent a lot of time on that. I really enjoyed making that typography. Like just did like hand drew all the letters and everything with it. So I couldn't like, there's no alphabet to me to write anything else. It's literally just the old foundry. So yeah, then painted the sign outside, did the sign by the railway. So when the train, every time the train would come past, I was literally balancing on this ladder and had that much space and it was just like wobbling everything. If one loves a bit of jeopardy though, you don't create your best work when there's a bit of jeopardy going by. The letters as well. So I've worked and stole Ralph's Wi-Fi from this space for well over a year now. And I've always looked at the sign and never knew who'd done it. then so yeah, all the dots were connected when Ralph told me last week that it was you and that you'd, you just said, yeah, if you need, if you need anything doing. obviously this is such uh a famous place in Leigh that then I could reference that every time I talked to someone new. Yeah. I did the hatch, I did the up-down tree and then yeah, just kind of like... Built from there. Because you don't have a website or your website isn't the main way that people find what you do. No. did actually start with a website, but I just got rid of it because I Didn't I said didn't need it. Yeah, I didn't need it. Really. It was Instagram alone was just my portfolio that I needed. Yeah That's the same for a lot of creatives, I think. And it's another thing to have to manage and govern and add things to. And if you can do that for a really easy interface on your phone and still get the same amount of work, if not more, why not? I've got all the photos so I can always like make a portfolio from it if Instagram was to go somewhere. But for now it's like, yeah, it's the way I get work is through social media, Instagram mainly and word of mouth. And what's your experience? I think you've alluded to it already, but what's your experience of the community around Liebens since you moved here? It looks like a positive. Absolutely. I love the Lee community. I've met so many amazing traders and business owners and actually I didn't have any friends when I moved here. most of my friends now are people that have paid me before. for some reason I feel like I need to write, not write, draw like a little book of the local traders and Lee or something because I could tell if you need something I can tell you where to go. Yeah, well I was going to say, mean the podcast acts as a bit of an organic way of meeting people that we never would have met unless we were sat behind microphones or at least got to have a conversation and got to know them. But you definitely, you definitely feel there's something special about this place and within a couple of names, I mean it can backfire from time to time, but within a couple of names you'll be able to be connected with someone that can help support a cause or introduce you to someone else. And I think maybe everyone feels a like that about where they live. it just seems particularly strong around here, that sense of community and sense of support. I have to shout out Ralph. I think Ralph and what he's built here, I describe it as a community hub. It's like networking central and Ralph is a facilitator for so much of that. He's I think, a prime example of the type of person around here. We owe him a lot because he lets us have this space. introduces us to lot of guests and paves the way for conversations to happen. But I think he's a really good example of what he's about. I think like when I met him as well and he's I've got a sister and two brothers I've got two sisters and a brother. my dad has got a dog called a radio as all my sisters called a radio and like this is like we had like I don't know if I've adopted them with their family their family is amazing the tape and then I Paul through Ralph obviously next and then they did his like bakery sign and that was again it's when it's the job that can be you can be more like creative with it and he was just like yeah, want it all wonky but also straight letters, but wonky. it's just like, yeah, we just had lots of fun with that one. uh You look like someone that if someone's got a brief that doesn't fit what you've done before, you're just going to love that. Yeah, definitely. Like bigger the better, really. Definitely. Yeah. But then also I just love helping any shop owners that have no idea what they want. So yeah, clean slate. Let's you build a record. and visualize what, like, let's get you a picture of what you're trying to do here. Are there any places, businesses, buildings in Leeds that you walk past and think, God, I want to paint on that. Well, actually it was the marina. Yeah, the Lee marina for ages. It's where the trail cafe is. And they've got all the lines on the trail cafe at the back of the view. And before that even ever happened, I've always thought, oh, that would be a really cool building to paint. And lo and behold, they had someone to come and spray it. It wasn't me. then I did get... some friends have just bought it, so... And now I'm painting down there. And you can actually see my artwork from the top of the stairs, from where I always noticed that. So you're close. So I'm pretty close, yeah. But it's really exciting um community being created down there. Yeah, there's loads of like old shipping containers and loads of businesses going in and artist studios that have always been there. um Yeah, we're just making a space look a bit more prettier. think since trail have been there, it just feels like that whole area has exploded. It might just have been that no one knew the things that are now there were there historically. then trail being there has made it bit more of a destination, let's say that part of, I mean, what even is that? Marina. I think they're going to make it, I don't know the definite on the name yet, but like Lee, I don't know, Lee Marina Studios. It's going to be a space where it has loads of businesses going in. I don't know how much I can tell you, but it's going to be exciting. It feels like we're going to have some more guests lined up on the back of that. I'm going to ask you about juggling work-life balance. You're a mum or two. How do you get the balance right? Especially when you've got so many things, creative outlets, work, got to pay the bills, all these things. do you get the balance? I say right, how do you fight for the balance? I was going to say, I think that was the first thing was going say, I don't know if I'm doing it right, but somehow I'm still just above water. think it's apparent that's all you can be. I think you're doing well enough. I don't know. uh If you want to hear a yes from me, don't know if I can say it right now, not after today, but it's a different thing, it evolves over time. I feel like what's been taken away mostly is time. Like I was so used to having the time to, don't know, but I'm silly as well. take on so many different projects at the same time as well. And that's what's been taken away the most, but obviously for the best reason, like they are incredible. And they inspire me so much as well. So how do we juggle it? You just don't know until you're in it. My days have got shorter in terms of work. but then em I still kind of work just as hard or harder if you like to get these jobs finished in time. m I don't know what the answer is to that. Let me ask you another question on the back of that then. Have your goals changed since having kids? I think my goals in a way haven't changed really because I've always tried to keep true to who I am. Especially when there's a pressure of being this artist, right? So you've got followers or you've got whatever people expecting to see these drawings coming from you and you haven't done something for so long, then people are like, what's going on with them? Like, so you always have this pressure of producing new work, new work, new work all the time. So I guess, That kind of goal of always producing new work is always being there, but maybe I'm better at, am I better at organizing things? A lot of my clients get work sent to them at like 10 o'clock at night. But that's because I actually feel more creative at night time. And that was one of the main reasons I left like a mainstream job. because that traditional nine to five. It doesn't work. I can't sit down and just be like, right, that's the decision. So just to jump in on that, we had a hormone cycle optimization specialist come on in season one. That's quite a mouthful, it? HCO coach, that's what we call her. She was incredible and she educated me on where the nine to five came from. And it's a hangover from the patriarchy. It's because men's energy levels run that kind of pattern. So nine o'clock. peaking around kind of midday and in tail off and that's where the whole drinking culture came from, where men will go out and relax and I'm not doing a massive uh service for men here. But that was it, it was scheduled around men and their body clocks. I'm not, so actually a lot of women that I speak to find exactly the same thing. And again, my brother, who I'm not going to mention again, also finds that he's more creative at night. So there are different times for different people. How there can be such a prescriptive way of working for the masses is beyond me. And the fact that it's based on men, I'm just going to apologize. Yeah, I feel like, yeah, I feel like in terms of, I think I personally suffer though, because I'm all creative at night time, and then battling of being like, do I just get this finished? Or do I get some sleep in because the kids are going to literally wake up at five, and then you're just running on an empty. Yeah. So interestingly, think it is with Abby Thomas's podcast, she talks about a chronic disease and That also happened to me on burnout stage. But I didn't really, that stress of uh mum guilt, guess, along with owning your own business, well, running your own business, I say, like, making money to pay the bills. Everything just built up and yeah, I've always had problems with IBS, but my dad has too, he's hated. that is related to Crohn's disease. so I had like two periods where like my oldest was about nine months or something and I just having all these like stomach attacks and my friend was like, you're a panic attack and it would just, it would go on for ages. And so I had loads of testing done and they just couldn't put their finger on it. And then happened again this time around with my one year old when she was about nine, 10 months breastfeeding and. It happened all over again, exact same thing. And it's this pressure of, I don't know, like trying to keep this little human alive alongside like your kind of life of that you had before, you know, making everyone happy with your work and everything else and paying the bills. It's just too much, but you just never really, I never really noticed how stressed I was about it until. I've mentioned this before, body keeps a score. So all of that stuff you internalise and the body has a way of stopping you in your tracks to say, on, equilibrium needs to be struck at this point because it's... Yeah, yeah. So it's interesting. She went through the same thing on like burnout. Because I'm nodding along and I don't know if Tom and Rob behind the screen, but we had a conversation with Charlie whose episode goes out today and that was all around matressence, is this situation. The process of becoming a mum and again, unrealistic expectations and this feeling of judgment and this pressure to be all things to all people. Keep bounce back, Charlie said, you know, keep your kids happy and be a great partner and keep working. And it's just unrealistic and the weight goes somewhere. I really highly recommend that podcast. was so interesting hearing all about it from her and I just wanted to send it to all my mum friends, know, be like, it's okay. I personally am biased, but I think it's super powerful and it's nothing that I'd say it's all Charlie. The message she's putting out there I think is amazing. But it's funny from a timing perspective that you mentioned that because there is a uh physical toll that you take as well as a mental one. so true, because I think I am quite a chilled person and yeah, I don't know, it was just hitting me in other ways. The stress always finds you, whether it's physical or in the head. So anyway, think I'm out of it now. So that's good. That's a good place to be. We're talking about stressors and we're talking about the juggle and then you've got a side project. Why? My question is why? So you've got a side project. Tell us a bit about it because it fuses your talent with your love of sport. we're talking tennis and what's the other... Okay, cool. What's it called and tell us about it. it's called uh St. Maurice. The reason why I started it was because I missed doing the like a paragraph side that was doing super dry. And I, so I want to kind of go into clothes, actually make it more of a creative community, like do print as well. So I haven't started it in terms of the co-labs yet, but I'm planning to do like co-labs of artists with like, like them doing a print and then that being on a t-shirt as well. That kind of thing. It started because, I don't know, I think, like I said, I always wanted to be this tennis player and my dad was big into tennis and he also was artist, like creative and my mum was creative in her way as well. um that was like what it was like in a house. It was either some sort of sport going on, mainly tennis or some sort of drawing situation going on. So I think it's just a... collaboration of my upbringing, the things I love the most. Does it tie into what we talking about earlier as well? You're not creating to a brief. Something that you want to do. There's a product that you're putting out into the world because you like it. In the hope that other people are going to like it you can sell it, but it's your thing. It's art for art's sake on apparel. And I feel like it was something I'm creating. I want to be involved in that tennis industry or like the kind of snow side. So it's making my job up because it's what I want to do. I've made my job up. So I wanted to make money from. Yeah. And I know the passion is always going to be there because it's like two things I love combined. So I won't make it, maybe won't make it onto a wooden tennis court, but Like last year I actually had a dream job of designing the Queen's Club tennis poster. Yeah. ah Well, how did that come about? Can you give us any insight into how that happened? Yeah, yeah, just the LTA, we're just trying to find those different illustrators and they had like found about six or seven of us um and then I had to go through like elimination I guess and then I just got picked in the end. Also I quite, I really enjoy working with this magazine. I work for a lot, Racket magazine because they celebrate the kind of culture and art. within tennis too, so it's this combined. It's something I've always seen as, well, do you know what? Again, ignorance around tennis and the whole culture around it. But I am now getting this kind of view of the art side of it because it sounds like that has been embedded around that. if that creation of posters and they're celebrating artists, I think that's fantastic. Massive in tennis, like it was so good in the 80s, like the fashion on court and then it kind of dipped and now it's kind of coming back a lot. It's just, yeah, tennis is great. I don't know, there's just so many, I don't know, I just love it. I'm going to, no, I think that's fantastic. And I am going to say something you mentioned in your email. Okay. If it's okay to share. Yeah. Well, I do think it's worth saying that you are looking for a tennis court to put a creation on. Yes. If anyone can help, this is that I wanted to put the shout out on the podcast that I think in Lee, or one of the clubs, that has to be. I always got a link to the council because I did actually approach them about the chalk wall tennis courts once. Not the nice blue ones, but the ones that were kind of left with no lines in them. Feeling the rage. So I actually have a previous project, I painted a basketball court. em It's amazing. We will share the link because you shared an amazing video where it was shot on. Incredible. On that scale, it's just amazing. was in the garden of this guy's house. It was an insane house in Radlett. And he was just like, I love Kobe Bryant and I love Beverly Hills. So he just wanted this kind of combined look of that. So that's what he got. So that was, again, going into the unknown. I'd never painted a basketball court before, but doing all the research with the paint, I was like, how can this go wrong? So just go for it. And I loved it. and now I'm looking for a tennis court if anyone's got one in their back garden. I was also going to say in Lee, if it's going to be anywhere, it might be Lee. So I had to include that on the podcast. Thank you John. Okay, are with final stretch now. So I've got a few more questions and then we are going to play a game. Okay. That is always a part of the podcast. I love games. they're crap or not. You might not love this one. Don't build it up in your head. Okay. Okay. I'm going to ask. What What is your proudest achievement? And I mean work wise, we don't have to mention kids. No, no, all good, all good. Well, no, actually it was probably the basketball court. I feel like that was such a big project to tackle because it was into the unknown. And then it was, yeah, managed to achieve it. So that was definitely one of my biggest proudest. What else is there? We'll go with that. I like that. Just talk to me, I'm interested now, what is the process? Because you can't zoom out, you haven't got a drone, I'm assuming, flying above to give you a picture of what that looks like. So what is the process for you? How do you keep on track? You kind of go by lines. I actually used, there was a previous, just the actual basketball court lines on the court. And I was quite lucky because the design was like leaves. So it didn't have to be perfect leaves. They just know they've got to be leaf-like, if you like. So yeah, I just used the court lines for my design. Okay, well that was in the D of the court. So that's... pointed came out there and that was kind of how I went with it. But it was a bit like, yeah, different scale because a wall, you could spray the wall, all these like an alphabet if you like, and then you take a picture of the wall, you put it on the computer, you put your design on top. And you're like, okay, right by A, the point of the A was the I or by D, that was the hand and you map it out that way. It really depends on the size and there's loads of other ways you can project as well. But on the floor, I don't know. I traveled it and it worked. Yeah, that's good. Sometimes you've to do it. again, think that really, that again tells that story of your mindset, which is I'm just going to, I'm going to try and do it. Yeah. And it works. We will definitely share the picture in the video because it is absolutely stunning. It's cool that whole design. Thank you. Kenneth's caught next. What's one thing you want to do that you haven't done yet? So tennis court, Murat. Yeah, we've mentioned it, right? uh What haven't I done yet? em A train? That'd be pretty cool. I don't know, I don't really... For anyone listening and he's pointing at Ralph, just the bigger the better. I don't think you will. No, but we can ask him. oh I just like, yeah, just crazy surfaces or, you know, just someone would think, what? I can't paint that. Sky's the limit. I'd like to do more boats actually. I've done like three or You sent some pictures of the boats that you've done. It's so cool. oh that was, yeah, I really enjoyed those. um I mean, I think it's a myth or the rule is you can't change the name of a boat, it's bad luck. When you buy a boat, you can't change the name. But some of these vinyl stickers, get rid, just go traditional. uh Yeah, I'd like to do more. And because we're right by the water and there's so many boats, there's gotta be more boats coming my way. I mean, endless supply, would imagine, for sure. And that's another shout out as well if anyone wants their boat done and is looking for a boat. And also, I really enjoyed signing in Rayleigh the other day. There's a new cork door. Yeah. And actually so many people stopped to talk to me because it's not really seen as like wherever they've not seen it before, just not seen it for a long time. They really wanted to chat and no matter the height, I always get like conversations. And I'm like, oh, just coming down, talk to you. But it's such a lovely little town and that would be, yeah, perhaps see it all. hand-painted again like it was in the old days. was going to say, I'm about to say I grew up in Rayleigh, not in the old days, oh the eighties and nineties. But yeah, there is something, I feel like a bit of character has been lost from that high street as more of the more modern businesses have gone in there or taken over those buildings. And what I love, and this is another question I wanted to ask earlier, so I'll chuck this in there. I love how traditional it is and how far back that tradition of sign writing dates. Are you aware of that? when you're doing it. Yeah, mean sometimes, yeah, there's so much old sign writing behind signs in Lear. You posted a picture of one the other day, didn't you, that had been exposed. Maybe it on your story. It was just so beautiful and just, yeah, I wish they could just all take the signs off. So that's one good thing, I guess, is getting, well, you just need a bit of wood to go over those traditional signs to save them. It's just beautiful, isn't it? It's just, yeah. It's cool. is the name? This is a, this is a, a complete curiosity question. What's the name of the stick that you use? the mo-stick. Yeah. is this, and that is a traditional, that's something that they would have been using back in the 1800s when they were doing sign writing at the time. I think it's, well for a number of things, it's to kind of like steady your hand. So because you kind of lean on something to get like your hand just to move rather than your whole arm. And on top of that, when I haven't used one, for example, in the past, then you end up that bit of your hand ends up going on the wet paint you might have already painted. And part of my dyslexia, sometimes I might paint right to left, rather than left to right, which is really silly. But then you've got wet paint. it's just, yeah, ironic, isn't it? Signed by being the sexist. I was thinking that because you did mention that an email and I was like, that is quite an interesting one. I wonder how many dyslexic sign writers there are out there. might be one of, maybe one of one. It's gonna be more of me. It's gonna be but luckily today I haven't painted any spelling mistakes yet, but I think a t-shirt a super dry t-shirt got through to print Yeah, with a a bat with a yeah spelling mistake on but that's okay. Yeah, don't it It's fine. Just don't beat your hand up. And I'm going to ask you, because I think there will be a lot of people, lot of creatives listening to this podcast that think, that are inspired by what you've done. Yeah. And it might be in a role where they're getting a creative outlet, but they're doing it for a big corporate perhaps. eh What advice would you give them if they want to go it alone? um So. And you can be as honest as you want. It doesn't have to be succinct. It can be a scrappy thing because sometimes they are. You've just got to go for it. I think I was very lucky to grow up in a family that was always just positive and just telling you just to go for it. In fact, think about tennis. My dad used to coach me as a kid and he'd be like, just go for every ball, even if it looks like it's going out. And that's what you've got to apply to everything. It's like, what is it? It's that quote. It's there's no... there's no certainty, but there are doors of opportunity, is that right? And that's what it is, you've just got to create all those opportunities. Whether it's going to be successful or not, you'll never know if you don't do it. I love that, go for every ball. going out because then you'd never if you yeah because if it just hits a line that still counts as in his tendency if you'd gone for it you would have returned it yeah and used to be like my god was that out but i just i've played anyway so we're carrying on but he just said go for every ball even if it looks like it's going out and let like the umpire call it out um because that's their job not your You can say you've done everything you possibly could. Yeah. I think, yeah, you just got to apply that to everything you do. And I think that's one thing that works well with my job being local. Um, cause I much prefer talking to people, uh, rather than like writing emails or phone calls because I know I'd say cheesy, but talking about dyslexia again, but it is affected in my vocabulary and everything. And I don't know, I just feel like people can. see the true me when they meet me face to face. So that really works hand in hand with my job. em Again, not everyone is going to communicate well when they are sat in front of a keyboard. So having the opportunity to sit across from someone or talk to someone while you're up a scaffold or up a ladder, whatever it is, that's how you really get to know people. That's what I think what I'm trying to say is that go to any kind of events, to everything and that's when you meet people and that's when people are interested to stay in contact and that's basically what I've always done. Again, to really give some evidence behind that, I think there's confidence thrown in the mix because it takes confidence to say to Ralph, if you ever need any. It's good to know because a lot of people get one be like, well, it's easy if you're confident person, but actually it just takes some time. It's really powerful to know that someone is nervous, but then goes, if you ever need that and look what it's done for you now. Yeah, I mean, I remember thinking because I just, felt like I didn't know anyone. So I felt like everyone knew I was new here. When you walk around, go to a place. Yeah. I was just like, she's new. Um, but I just felt like I didn't, yeah, you just feel nervous to talk to anyone because you think everyone knows each other, but you. So it was a very, yeah, I was nervous in that sense. Um, and then he was like, yeah, great. I was like, great. Uh, cool. Call me. No, I think we spoke to Liam, who's the head chef over at Food Leoncy. He was talking about things that he used to do to get work experience and it takes confidence. These are things that I don't think are spoken about enough sometimes that you have to be in the room, you have to put yourself forward, you have to, as it sounds like you did at university or the foundation you did, you have to give some times your time for free in order to gain experience and not enough people. feel like now, Everything is about how do I make money as quickly as possible? It can be. Sometimes to gain the experience you have to put yourself out there. But also don't be so obsessed with that line of work. You need to do, like, so for example, the sporting side, I would be joining the Netball Club or whatever it was. I'd be doing lots of different things. And that's how you meet lots of different people too that need you. Because if you just go to those creative events, everyone's an illustrator there. That's a really good point. It's bit of an echo chatting bit. Yeah, it's great to be like bounce off ideas and you know, there's going to be those people that are can use you for that or but you need to go to those places where people have no idea about art and they need your help massively. So I mean, there's quite a few in leaders em and Westcliffe and there's those events they put on with like different like women in business and there's loads of different events going. So things like that to get involved with. Yeah, that would be my advice just to. Put yourself out there, go to different things, not necessarily related to the industry you're in. But talk to people, it's just face to face things. Don't hide behind the screen in social media and AI, it's like you've to be human. And that's what they've fallen in love with. that's when the trust is built to then actually use you for whatever it is. We talk a lot about authenticity. I that can get lost when you're just living behind a grid or a social media post. So I think in person you just can't beat that for forming that connection and let someone see that. Yeah, it's all important though. Like social media has got me all, like my jobs for example really and when it's further afield. em But yeah, just don't forget about the human touch. I love that. I think that's a really nice message. I love that as well. We're going to, I feel like that is to go on a t-shirt, what your dad said. Again, I think that's a Yeah, or a sign. We'll see. Right. We're going to play a game. Let's do it. Are you ready? Yeah. Okay. This game, just before we start, I'm going to give you a zoomed in image of a piece of your work. gosh. You're going to have to tell me. where it's from, who you did it for. So I'm going to show you the zoomed image. It's very random. This was quite last minute, but I do try. I mean, doesn't detract. Okay. Who, so I'm going to do this. We can, we can blow this up. Can't we Tom anyway on the screen. Okay, so we're going to start with this. This is a big letter J. Yeah, that's for June's store skate. Well, it was actually a skateboard that I painted on and I just can't remember what the word says, but it's for it went into June's store. It was more of a competition of like, I don't know, I had this like Canadian deck and it was blank and I just went to them and was like, do you want to do a little collab comp? Because obviously they had all the crew and I just watched it. It was such a cool space. oh gone online now. But I do miss them in the Broadway. So it is June store and it says... knew this wasn't gonna... Chachachacha, can't remember. It's 6! We'll leave that in. Jeeeez, of course it is. How could forget that? Why would you? So yeah, I just wanted to paint the skateboard but I felt like I didn't know where it was going so then I just went with June Storm and was like do you want to do a little collab comp so then they just posted it out and I can't remember how the person won but he won it. Well, that's adorning someone's wall or they've stuck. Yeah, well they might have put wheels on it. Who knows? Okay, next one is an O. That is North. So North, that's actually my handwriting. Nice! When I said that to Jimbo, he was like, I think he was gutted. I don't know if he was gutted, but I was like, mate, I charge way more for handwriting normally, so you're very lucky. But that is like how I write, basically. So I mean, I wrote it out loads and worked with the type, but that is my normal handwriting. Okay, that is very cool. Jimbo is hopefully going to come on the... I'm calling him Jimbo. I know him as James. Jimbo James. Way too familiar. Jimbo. Jimbo's coming on the podcast at some point as well. This is a B. Los... Los Box. It's an amazing boxing um club by... So where are they? They are off... Is it Broadway when they do the Henry Berger's corner? What is that little bit Like the transition between that and Lee Road They're just kind of behind that bit. They're behind Garret's. You know your jobs. This is good. Okay, right. We're go next one. S. Baba. Yeah, couple. Yeah, they designed that. I just came along and painted that one and they're doing so well in self-in. It's so cool. mean, that's around the corner from my from my office in Southend as well. And I go past that sign all the time. I had no idea that you've done that. So cool. Good coffee. Right. Next one. This I think this is going to be a tricky one. And the worst thing is. Thank you, because I haven't written down which one this is. I know all the others. Go on, go for it. Who do think it is? Hang on, is this a trick question? Is it not for business? Or is it for business? This is not for local business. Um, it kind of looks like, my sign, my wet letters sign. Oh, right. Which is... Should we do the reveal? Because you're gonna have to tell me who it is and you- I mean it's such a generic... I can't remember. You said it's back on your Instagram post. You said it's back home or closer to home. So was it a wedding? Oh, there it is. So you're gonna have to tell me who that is. know who that is, but who, but, when... Okay. It's not there. not anymore, but he's amazing. And I've done some work with him before. yeah, he just anytime we use some sort of graphic or something, does give me a shout. He's lush. That's awesome. It's an O. that's a... You're getting harder, aren't you? This O is from... Do I get a clue? No. I like this game though. do you want to know? It's local, it's not on the Broadway, but it is in Lee. not on the board way. like the ones that test you, I've got to be honest. It's definitely an O. is someone that... Oh, hang on. Oh, you know it. coming, the colors are coming to me. Rosewood! No. Rose was just around the corner from my house. Should we reveal this one? Go on. Billy Bonds. we go. Sorry, Billy. I mean, to be fair to Billy, that was really zoomed in. That could have been a lot of things, but zoomed out, it's got a real identity to it. I love the sisters, they're amazing. um And Simon the dad and with the whole family. prolific around this area. I just did not know how many signs you've actually got your got your fingerprints on it. it's incredible. I'm just so glad that everyone wants to have hand-painted signs again. so cool. It's the fact that it's got resurgence going on. Resurgence. What is that one? I it's a cool one. really, it's really blurry as well. I don't think this is how- Hair place. Yeah Yeah, it's gonna be worse that you can't connect the dots from here It's not Capelli. It doesn't have an R in that one. There's two names that you've done on this one. You've got the hair. So they've got two... Got it. oh It's Palooka Salon. you go. So yeah, this particular one is from the yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So cool. They're amazing. did that. They actually were up in London Road before, so did Palookas inside and then, yeah, they're doing so well as a team. Yeah, I only know Matt. haven't met his other half yet, but Matt, I know from the gym, forgive him a shout out, but he's incredible. yeah, so she specialised in wigs and Matt was just an amazing hair stylist and this has been so, mean Francesca was so busy that he just joined forces and he just styles the wigs and it's such great concepts and they are like really making people feel happy. 100%. Again, a future spoilers, future podcast guest. Talk about what they're doing. I think it's incredible. And I think they're to let us film in that space because I think it's just so cool. Yeah, they're so well. Love that. Okay, this is such an awful picture Annie. So I'm going to apologize in advance. is Grove. You know it straight away from that. It's quite an iconic tea that you've done. It is the Grove. Type font, so that's not my, so most of time, I actually say 50-50, whether I've actually designed the graphic or I've just come along, painted the graphic they've already got. So I didn't do that one. But yeah, really sweet. I loved doing that for them. And that was their big makeover they had. Yeah, it's nice to work with different typography. Yeah. Yeah, really. H this one's tough. I think. I've got a clue for you but I don't think you need it just yet. But what's the green thing? That was going to be the clue. That is part of a window frame. Oh, I know what it is. Athletica. So they're a wicked gym down. It's nice when you find secret places, isn't it? I felt like that and Lost Box is quite secret, but everyone wants to know where they are. cool bike place as well called Stovelo which is I think just around the corner from that but you would never know it as a bike shop round Behind the broker or wherever the pub, there's a guy that does bike sales. They might be there, but this is like a push bike place. So he does some really cool bespoke builds, think, and stuff. But around that little section, there's some really cool businesses. oh I really enjoyed doing this because obviously it's the traditional window they have and then they had the bottom bit and yeah, I enjoyed it. brilliant. Again, this is going to be crap for anyone listening because it all... I've literally done a game that involves a laptop screen. it's going to be an awful listen, but you're just going to have to watch it on YouTube. yeah, look, that is just so, so just for anyone, anyone that's interested, all of those letters, which you've not taken a note of as we've gone, I didn't ask you to, but it does spell jobs worth because we have to throw it in there and connect it all. I love that. At the end anyway. I didn't obviously notice the spelling. Hi guys, me again. I'm just jumping in mid episode to ask if you could spend 10 to 15 seconds to rate and review the podcast. Yeah, I know you're getting sick of it. We're currently sat on 48 reviews on Spotify. I would love to see that get to 50. There's something that's really weirding me out seeing it stuck at 48 for the last couple of weeks. So, um, If you could go on there and do that, that would be lovely. You can write a review wherever you're listening. And it would be amazing if we could get up to 100 YouTube subscribers over the next few weeks too. So if you haven't done it yet, could play a part in making that a reality for me, producer Tom and anyone that works on the podcast. Thank you so much. Okay, so the closing tradition, we do have a question from mum. Okay. And I'm gonna play it to you. Let's do it, Lisa. Okay. Hi Annie, what is the highest building that you've ever worked on? Thank you. Short and sweet from mum. She usually likes to... I think she has been quite nice to you, but yeah, was the tallest. So sometimes I jump on jobs with other um sign-might-use-mural artists and there was one in Basildon and that was, how high was that? 15 I think? 15 meters high but we were on um scissor lifts and cherry pickers on this kind of thing and uh it's assisting another artist. yeah, personally I mean, so if it wasn't one of those big jobs and also like I work a lot with a group called Many Hands in London. It's just when they need extra hands, literally. We've worked on the Barbican. The recent project we did was the National Maritime Museum. So really exciting, massive projects. You're one of a big team. And again if that happened to be my own project, you just can't do this kind of thing solo. Even the marine job I'm doing at the moment, I probably should have got more hands with it. I didn't really realise the scale of how much there was to do. is where you get snapped by scene in, scene in Lee, the very well known page. don't know who. Yeah. does feel about him. I've never, I've never seen him. We've seen the guy behind the camera. He's lovely. It's really nice to meet him. Instantly felt like we've known each other for years so cool. think good photographers have that about them. They've just got this thing to completely take away any barrier between you both. yeah, they want they have a I guess there's a reason for that as well. They want you to feel comfortable in front of Yeah, we're laughing because he's obviously got lot of photos of just me, of my backside on the ladder. Is that from where you seem like just round and doing all the jobs? so it was nice to finally meet him. Yeah, really nice guy. He's actually linked up with the gas. works. Yeah, I know them well. Yeah, yeah. To get an office space with them funny enough. yeah. So much stuff going on here. Yeah. And I just, yeah, I'm trying to pull all my friends this way, but anyone coming from London, just move down. You've got London. same kind of vibe about it but they close to the wall. We're not on the toy sport but you can do it. Especially if they're your friends I guess this is what we want to do, the drum and bring them closer. I'm to call my back to call my mum, like just come here for a bit. That's it, you find it. Annie, it's been an absolute pleasure speaking with you. Thank you so much. Thank you. We've taken up a lot of your time, but that was amazing. Thank you. No, you're welcome. hope it was interesting enough for now. It was amazing, it was amazing. Well done. That was awesome. Thank you so much. It was brilliant.