JobsWorth - Ben Nichols and Alice Skeats

This week on JobsWorth, I’m sitting down with Ben Nichols and Alice Skeats, co-founders of Re:Made.

Ben and Alice are a couple from Essex, and theirs is a love story that started like so many others in the twenty-first century – on Bumble. After meeting during the pandemic, and despite the not insignificant hurdle of lockdowns and social distancing, their relationship blossomed. Then, a little over two years ago, Ben had an idea.

We explore what happened next: from the creation of their first prototype product to the celebration of Re:Made’s second birthday a few weeks ago.

Ben and Alice give an honest account of what it’s like growing a business as a couple, the sacrifices you have to make when choosing to pursue a passion, and we also discuss when it’s the right time to make a side hustle your full-time gig.

As well as creating a brand that has already become synonymous with high-quality products and incredibly happy customers, Alice and Ben have also built a community. If their early success is anything to go by, it’s clear to see that they’re just getting started.

Keep an eye out for a very special guest at the start of this episode  He loved it, I promise. 

Please enjoy... Ben and Alice.

#jobsworth #podcast #career #worklife #storiesthatinspirechange

The JobsWorth website is here www.jobs-worth.com

Watch the show on YouTube; https://www.youtube.com/@jobsworthpodcast

Follow the show on Instagram; https://www.instagram.com/jobsworthpodcast/?hl=en

Follow me on LinkedIn; https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnhawker/

Follow me on TikTok; https://www.tiktok.com/@globaltechcollective

Subscribe to my newsletter 'The Job Journal from GTC'; https://subscribepage.io/TheJobJournal

Learn more about my proper job; https://www.globaltechcollective.com/

Contact the show on hello@jobs-worth.com

Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 2:50 Childhood Aspirations and Early Influences
• 6:10 Meeting and Relationship Dynamics
• 9:02 Career Paths and Transition to Entrepreneurship
• 12:09 The Genesis of Remade: Inspiration and Motivation
• 15:10 Building the Business: Challenges and Milestones
• 18:01 Community Building and Customer Relationships
• 20:58 Navigating Business Together as a Couple
• 23:53 Balancing Passion and Practicality in Business
• 27:03 Growth and Future Aspirations for Remade
• 30:09 Maintaining Authenticity and Community Focus
• 32:56 The Role of Mental Health and ADHD in Business
• 36:07 Final Thoughts and Reflections on the Journey
• 49:37 Emotional Purchases and Community Engagement
• 52:12 Product Design and Quality Assurance
• 54:41 The Unique Bond with Pets
• 57:10 Finding Purpose Beyond Material Success
• 1:01:03 The Journey to Fulfillment
• 1:02:44 Transitioning from Side Hustle to Full-Time
• 1:08:04 Listening to Your Gut
• 1:17:10 Future Product Innovations

Transcript

0:00

Oh, that was easy. This is a bowl, something you'd maybe see on a table. Thank you. That's what it used to be. As opposed to a chef. you Welcome back to Jobsworth. This week I am joined by Alice Skeet and Ben Nichols who are the founders of a business called Remade. Now I've dragged begrudgingly my nine year old Aussie labradoodle Hugo into this introduction. And that is because the brand that Alice and Ben have founded is focused on creating premium accessories, things like leads, collars, harnesses for dogs and their owners who obviously have the money. and the dexterity in their fingers to buy these products. They do other things. We do talk about the product, but I think at the heart of it, this conversation is more about how they founded the business, what led them to create this brand. We talk about mental health. We talk about the pursuit of finding meaning and purpose in the job that you do. And we also talk about some of the less... obvious elements of starting a company, which is the community that you build and the friendships you make along the way. And you can tell that Ben and Alice are at the start of something big. They're just two years into their journey as founders and the love that they've got in this community of people they've brought together is incredible. So I really hope you enjoy this episode as always, if you want to get involved in the comments and let us know what you think, that would be fantastic. and stay tuned for next week. We always start with the same question on the podcast, which is the opener. So if you've listened to a couple of episodes now, you'll probably know what's coming. But when you were younger, what did you want to be when you grew up? And I am going to start ladies first with Alice. So Alice, what are I really wanted to be a TV presenter or a radio presenter. So I really had my heart set on being on Blue Peter. And I was quite lucky that from a young age, we actually got a PC because my stepdad worked in IT. And so I was quite young to have a computer and I would sit upstairs in the study with a webcam and a microphone recording like radio shows, stories. just trying to get my voice out there, which is a bit cringing now that I'm sat in this suit. I mean, we're all sat in front of mics, in front of cameras now, so it kind of lines really well with what we're doing, at least in this moment, and we will touch upon what you're doing now. So there's obviously a through line there. So you were literally sat in front of a webcam doing pieces for yourself. That's not sad, by the way, I'm just trying to clarify. Sometimes I would bring my friends onto it as well. This probably ranged pre-computer probably from as young as like six. So when my sister got like a video camera as well, the seven years between us, she got a video camera for her 18th. I was narrating the Christmas home videos. And then obviously we've got a computer. I would bring my friends on it. I would do that. And then like the era of like MSN and webcams. I was just up in that tiny little box room recording and actually that dream went on for quite a long time even when I was at uni and in my second year of uni my mum, she's quite religious, she goes to church, was speaking to a cold case detective at Essex Police who was another member of the church, told him how I wanted to be in TV and he was like, oh Essex Police have a TV unit, why doesn't she do some work experience there? So I was a bit like, that's not... really the TV experience. Glamorous, the glamorous world of Darwin's Hogan Twintet. But I into some experience there and I absolutely loved it. And like that was mostly in the PR and media team. So that's where I got my kind of taste for PR. uh What I loved about it, it was doing something for good. So I actually sat on like a murder trial and I think I just realized then that I like storytelling. I like talking, but I can use that to do a job and help other people. And that ties in so beautifully with what you're doing now and where you're working now and the kind of thing that you're doing. So that's great. And it's always nice to see the connection. I started asking that question to people because I wanted there to be a connection, but very often isn't. uh Not even tenuous connection. And that's fine. Cause I'm going to ask you now Ben. You might say there is nothing attached to this. So when you were younger, what did you want to be when you grew up? There wasn't anything. we've had this conversation. Honestly, there was not a single job role. And I remember being a kid and there was obviously you're, you know, I want to be a vet. I want to be a fireman. There was nothing. There was nothing that I saw or looked at that I thought I'd really like to do that. I remember my nan, my uncle was a policeman. And I remember she was like, you know, you'd be a great policeman. I knew from an early age, did not want to do that. I think in a way it's kind of frustrating because I didn't have much. personal direction because there wasn't anything that I really looked at and thought or that was just naturally drawn to. that probably continued until I was... I don't believe my mid teens. And there were just these little things that I started to notice, which were things I didn't really pay attention to until my mid thirties, but I'd wash the cars on a Sunday. The only time I had this feeling of satisfaction was looking out the window to look at the cars, the job that I'd done. Because it's the only thing that I actually found rewarding. So yeah, in short, there wasn't a single job role, but I think for me, I knew that doing something that I could see physically, that I was proud of, that gave me that feeling of... Yeah, I can relate to that so much. There's something tangible at the end of the time that you've invested and the energy you've invested in doing something. I have told this story a couple of times, but I used to be a scaffolder in a previous life. There were parts of that job that I hated, parts of the job I don't miss, getting up at four o'clock in the morning in the dead of winter, trapping your hand between scaffold tubes is never the one. But actually turning up somewhere with a group of your mates. doing a few hours really hard work, standing back and looking at something going, I did that. Or I played a part in that. That's tangible. Whereas again, what I guess to a degree Ben, me and you, what you used to do and what I currently do, there's something very intangible. Where do you find the wins sometimes? That can be quite difficult to see where that can come from. So really interesting for both of you. Where did you both meet? So we actually met in Bumble. Okay. Yeah, so 2021 wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah, I think we matched in like the January and then it like fizzled out. We matched those for our love for roast dinners as well. Yeah. So I'm coming at this from position of ignorance. I've never been on Bumble for the record. But how do you match for roast dinners? Just to give anyone... No, you actually is like Bumble was there an app that was started for the women to be the first make the first move. And I think on your profile, it might have said like, what's what's your favorite meal? Or what was your last like something about like Something about that, I think this is the thing is we're almost part of the opposite in a way that think that we also compliment each other. So Bumble for me is like I was in a long term relationship and so I was that's I've never been on online dating apps. Bumble was like the woman has to make the first move. So I'm terrible with articulating myself or like messaging or yeah, communication, terrible. So Bumble was perfect. because Alice reached out first and started the conversation. I actually surprised you, like you persisted. Because you should get like one or two sentences back. I was like, is he interested? don't know. And then like, it's in middle of COVID as well. like. What an interesting time to meet and start a relationship. Yeah. When our first date was walking along the seafront, we got some hot donuts. It was a lot of outdoor dates because nothing was open as well. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's difficult. It's difficult to find stuff to do that you could do because nothing was open. if, mean, especially around here, you'd have to book in advance weeks and weeks and weeks. And like, we're both all over the place, everything's last minute. yeah, that was difficult. But I think there's like a really current thing of like, even to this day, like the stuff that we do is always outdoors. yeah. Good. So that was where that relationship started. you were both, am I right in thinking you were both working in some form of tech at the time from slightly different angles? tech sales and in PR marketing comms for an app. Yeah. Remind me the name of the app. And I did make a note of that, but I forgot it. So I do apologize, but we'll give the next door a shout out as well. Just very quickly sidebar, I the fact that their focus is on communities and neighborhoods. think that. Tech for Good, where you were saying if you can marry your love of getting behind a mic, doing some content, but then marry that with something that does good for people. sounds like it's ticking a lot of those boxes. And I think that for me, even that was my first job actually outside of public sector. So pre to that, I'd always worked. Actually, my first ever job was PR for Southend councils. I think it's the reason why I'm a bit of a PR girl for Southend. We talk to a lot of people that feel like they work on a tourist board for this area because they just got so many lovely things. Are you being paid for this? yeah, it's nice. And then I actually did work in law enforcement. So I worked for the City of London Police and their PR department. And then I just wanted to go over to the other side and next door ticked all the boxes because it was about where you lived. And I was passionate about where I lived. I was also launching partnerships with police forces. So that was kind of like my old job. But what I loved about it, it was all about bringing people online and forging like good connections. but then taking those offline to actually really build like in real life community. Yeah, because it can be quite superficial, can't it? If you're it all from a user interface on, I mean, my example of these neighborhood community groups are WhatsApp groups and Facebook. you kind of don't, unless you get out and meet people in the street, you don't know who people are. It's very surface deep. It's nice to foster that sense of community, think. We first met, I mean, I think I'm one of these people that, you know, I don't necessarily say a lot, but your passion, I think just speaking with you, you're passionate just speaking about it then about next door and community. I was really drawn to that. I think for me, even if you're carving wooden spoons, you know, in your spare time, if you're passionate about something, I'm just really, really drawn to it. It's so nice to have the conversation with someone, especially during COVID, right? Where you're kind of isolated. And I think that's what drew me to bed. we, like, I think on our first date, we started talking about tech. And I was like, like he's got a real like, like hunger and drive and like he's motivated. I find that a really attractive quality. Like I'm a really driven person and I find that attractive in another person. It's inspiring too, isn't it? It leaves you enthusiastic. like it charges you up. And I get that from doing this podcast. I sit opposite people and I say it a lot. can feel enthusiasm and energy coming from people when they're speaking about things that they're passionate about. There is a magnetism to that. There is a connection that builds from there. And what Nextdoor are doing seems to align really nicely and going back to what you said you wanted to be when you grew up, that seems to really connect. So that's fantastic. And Ben, tech sales. So we come from, I would say there's a lot of crossover. Your tech sales, tech recruitment. I'm not going to bang on about what I do for a living because it's boring. what was your experience in it? And also, did you leave school, college, university? We're rushing forward a little bit now because we could spend the whole podcast talking about education and people's experience with that. when you left college, did you go to university? Did you have a goal or a target? that you wanted to work in that space? Was that kind of a destination type of job for you or more one that you found yourself in? So I found myself in it. so I think for me, so at university, didn't really want to go to university. I had a girlfriend at the time whose parents were really pushed them on academics. So for me, kind of, it's more a case of I didn't want to feel like I was being left behind in life because I didn't really, again, didn't really have any direction, didn't know what I wanted to do in terms of a job. So I went to university and had an amazing time. I had a really good time. But towards the of the third year after partying, you know, I knew that was going to come out with a two, two. And I think at that time, people were starting to talk about going to finance. And for me, it's, know, there's always this feeling in this recurring theme throughout my entire life, like not being good enough. And so if I was trying to overcome that with certain things. So for me at that period, it was, I've got to get a good job. And good job by, and that point was defined by an opportunity to earn money. What was the definition of a good job? the money was that, but I think it was something that was working for like a prestigious company. oh So, you know, because I had that kind of lack of self-worth and this is something I didn't recognize at the time. I thought that I would get that sense of satisfaction or fulfillment or, yeah, validation. Yeah. The, you know, I'm it like, I'm doing okay. the I'm not how I feel in that moment by working for a big company. know, they finance was, you know, I didn't have the grades, I wasn't drawn to it. For a certain level, don't they? look at university degrees and what you came out with. So I kind fell into a tech sales role and I'm so glad I did because at the time, especially for the first couple of years, I absolutely loved it. And I grew up in, you know, in Suffolk in the middle of nowhere. And although I love the idea of that now, I just wanted to get out. So I thought go to London, work for a big company, which I did work in sales and I was really drawn to tech. Yeah. It's funny, isn't it? I think a lot of people that do live in more rural areas, is a generalization, because I'm sure there are a lot of kids who turn into teenagers that want to stay around there. But I guess the general consensus is there's so many people that then want to get into the city, have more to do, have that London or city lifestyle, wherever that might be. Once you've done it, which we'll go on to explore a touch upon, you've checked that box. What's next? How long can that sustain you? moving forward. yeah, I get that. This is going to segue, hopefully nicely. I do want to talk about the genesis of Remade, which is your company that we're to talk about, alongside how you have got into that, how you've built it, how you're juggling that with another job to all these weird and wonderful things. so what was the genesis of it? That's a broad question for a reason. What was the first spark that made you think I need to set up a business, not necessarily remade, but what was the first spark? I'll ask you Ben if that's okay. Of course yes, there wasn't one thing. Okay. was like a domino thing. There were three key things that we can touch on it. The main thing was going back to that feeling of washing the cars. We bought the biggest pumpkin we could find one Halloween. Very random. from Lidl. And it was so big that we had to strap it into the back. it was seatbelted up. It was called Peter. called Peter and it was one of these things And we carved the pumpkin and it looked awful. It looked absolutely awful. But it was one of things I kept looking back at the pumpkin. And I had this feeling that I hadn't had since I was probably 17, 18, which was a sense of pride. It's something that I've done and that I can look back at, even though it looks terrible. It just felt really fulfilling. m You just love doing something with your hands. I didn't think of myself as a creative person. I didn't think of myself as someone who's very good with the hands at all. It was more of just, I like this feeling and it feels, it's like a natural fulfilling um feeling that I had. Yeah. That was the first thing. The other was living in South End. We go up and down, you know, by the sea quite a lot. What would you call it? Yeah. As in like, is it, not the Along the seafront? I'm the C-Front, that's it. I've had struggles my entire life with mental health and know, dogs are... I think throughout the worst times, and I'm to go into it, during 2019, 2020, the only time that I actually felt like I actually felt like full stop, I didn't have any feeling for a long time and like a little sense of happiness and also like I actually felt safe. So after kind of meeting at this, you know, if things were quite bad, know, Alice would phone up the neighbor and we'd set the dogs for a walk. So that was up my safe space. Coming back to kind of where Remade came from, you know, I'm not necessarily a people person, which is crazy for being in Texas. You definitely prefer dogs more than humans. I was, and I, I'm an introvert, but I would stop people on the seafront and like, ask to speak with the dog. This is so embarrassing. are the definition of a dog person from the sound of it. across the road to go and talk to a dog. Like you can see in Beeline, particularly an old English Bulldog is his favourite. And then he'll also loiter a bit if you can see one coming. Because he's like, want to go and say hello to that dog. Yeah. So it was that. And then it was just noticing that, you know, people would spend, um, I put so much kind of time and effort into their appearance. Um, and the dogs are, you know, is this, this thing that kind of makes you feel good, right? It's this, it's this friendship companionship. And I think just from being out and about and climbing and hiking, you know, as a kid, thought we can, everyone was having like these road pleases that we can make, I can, I could make something that I think is actually better. And it kind of came from that pumpkin, which is I want to make something with the dogs being outdoors. Everything kind of came together with this idea of why not make a rope lead? uh And it was just that. It wasn't this, let's turn it into business. It was, I just want to make something. It's the age old story of seeing a bit of a gap in the market that you've been able to identify. And it's something, again, when you think of the people or the animals that are going to be enjoying that product too, you relate to that. It's got a really positive connection because of what it does for you too, from a mental health perspective. So it feels like a really lovely kind of trifecta to push down a certain product. When Ben, because I'm assuming Ben was the catalyst, when Ben came to you, what was that conversation like? So Ben's still in tech sales at that time? struggles, you've seen something, light in his eye maybe at that point that's made you think, oh, he's got an idea. And now he said it out loud. What do you do at that point? What's your reaction? have ideas and he has had a couple of other business ventures. So when he came to me with this, I was just like, you do you, Hud. Dog leads, yep, that sounds fun. Rope leads. And you bought some mountain climbing rope, didn't you? And you spent hours looking at YouTube, practicing different knots, learning different techniques. But it kind of, felt like you did it for a few weeks or a few months and then it kind of phased out. And then Ben, left a job and was on gardening leave. And I just said to you, like, now's the perfect like, you've got that mocked up. Why don't you try and make a couple few more prototypes and give it a go. And then he was just full throttle making it. I remember I didn't, I don't think I kind of like spoke to you about it after that. And then maybe a couple weeks later, I mentioned it and he had a logo, he had a website, he'd set up an Etsy, and then I discovered he had an Instagram. It was terrible by the way. Yeah. And I was just really surprised he got it off the ground. But when I then looked at this Instagram account, was loads of memes of old English bulldogs and just like some pictures of his brother's dog that he'd mocked up this lead on. And that's where I was like, Ooh, maybe I could help you a little bit with brands and marketing, but that's... your first ever sale, I was convinced he was being scammed. Probably because I'm last half empty and worked for the... I was like, this isn't a real person and what he's doing, he's trying to access like the bank accounts or like the money is going to like... Or he's going to return it. And they didn't. And then the orders just kept coming in. I was like, oh, I actually think he's on to something. That's really lovely to hear that because it's very easy and it probably shows that the the strength of your relationship It's very easy to go. Yeah, you know, I always always believed it was gonna be a success I always knew it was gonna land but the reality is if you if you ask my partner how many times I've gone to her with an idea she like she's deaf to it to a degree now and it's not her fault it's because I just have so many and I think that's the reality if you're someone that is constantly searching maybe for something else, especially if you're a job that you don't like. You try and find an avenue to just give me something I can get passionate about or feel. And I think that's really lovely that you can be honest to say, first, I was like, what the fuck you doing? I was like, Ben's like, I'm up with this idea and I'm helping it out. They were a bit like, right, okay then. Do what you like. But it did rock it quite quickly, didn't it? think to be honest, was, you've always, Alice has always been really supportive. And I think this is again, one of the qualities that I was really, really drawn to. Like I've had crazy ideas and I talk about weird stuff about things that I noticed and she's always been really supportive and that was really helpful. With the friends and stuff, was actually quite difficult because... when I would speak with people about it, because I'd maybe had ideas before, it's almost like it became like a bit of a joke. So I think if it wasn't something that actually made me feel, was like therapy in a way, like making these leads that actually made me feel good. It wasn't like I was just doing it for money or for a business. I probably would have quit because it wasn't something that really, you making a dog lead, I've wrote, but it doesn't. Yeah, it's like, you know, it's a dog lead, but to me it was so much more. Do you think so obviously the process of creation if we go back to Peter the pumpkin Yeah, the process of creating carving a pumpkin doing some of your hands going back to get my scaffolding analogy Which is something tangible looking back and thinking I've I've done that or I've played a part in that You've got that box checked. Yes. Do you think? It could have been Anything that you were creating obviously we were were jelling dogs which have had an impact on you as they do with so many of us. I've grown up with dogs my entire life and there is something completely therapeutic about being around a dog for other people, it's other animals, but I am a dog person so I can relate to that. But yeah, do you think you would have gone down a route of creating something? It's very clearly that seemed to be a box that you wanted to have. Possibly. think with the, it would have to be something that provides a good experience for somebody. So, you when I'm making each of these leads, I see it as like an honor almost because someone's going to take it and actually enjoy it. And I think for me, you know, struggling so much, even now, right, it gives me a sense of purpose that my time has been like, it's actually been worthwhile. to make something that someone else can enjoy. And I want to speak for you either, but again, going back to when I've been in dark moments or dark spells, being able to be mindful or at least have your brain can go somewhere where you're in that flow state. And that comes from being creative for so many people, definitely for me, being able to write something creative, being able to draw, being able to do whatever with your hands allows your brain to tap into a different room rather than sit there and ruminate. Yeah. Have conversations with yourself, which can be quite dangerous sometimes. really can. So that's lovely. Again, Alice, from your perspective, the practicalities of this, Ben's had a successful job in tech sales. He's done well with that. He's now talking about setting up his own business. How do you strike the balance between being supportive of that, but also thinking we still need to pay bills. We've still got finances to sort out. uh think at first it was more of a hobby. em And so it was just being operated from our kitchen, which is also my workspace and also the lounge. So this was a little bit tricky because we started off with one rope color. So we started in July, by the August we had another two. So obviously Ben's bought a lot of stuff. What year was this? just to take people back. uh And so he's got all this rope, which is storing in plastic boxes, then he's ordering all these carabiners and he's got leather and he's punching holes into it and there's like leather bits on the floor and there's shredded paper and then there's boxes. so he's in carrying for a relationship doesn't it into the kitchen, putting it all on the kitchen island. And at the beginning it was like fine, but then obviously the volume goes up. So he's working in the evenings at the weekends. And then it gets to the point where it's like Saturday night, I don't want to sit with you in my like vision making this lead. And it did put a strain on our relationship. So I just went on Rightmove and started looking at office spaces, like really dingy, awful ones. On purpose, the dingier the better. I was just like, we need it to be cheap because there's not obviously any money really. And then that's when we found the gas works. And I think that was a really pivotal moment because it gave Ben space. And that was also another thing that was always a bit of a struggle. We live in a small two bed flat. I'm working my day job, you're working your day job, you're doing a small business. It was just hard. And the leather that's on the leads, I would use a hammer at the time and like a letterpress. So I'd take the cutting board in the kitchen, as you can imagine, Alice is probably like just over here and I'm hammering. knives as well. And in fact that kitchen knife has never returned, it's still at the workshop. He cuts his level with, yeah, one of ours is at Sabatoor kitchen knives. of that. That was the moment I think for me it was again, like maybe a little bit validation that Alice was like, okay, we can, you can have another space. oh Because for me, it was never big enough to warrant like an office space. But going to the Gasworks and like, we met Ken and it's now Greg, it's got it, it's completely changed it. There's one, I think just being outside the home, like gave me a bit of confidence that this is real, you know, and in this space that I really... It is a proper business, yeah. think being there the very first month, like we grew by, you we almost doubled. One, because I could store stuff and two, because it felt like this is a business now as opposed to just me doing it as a hobby. I think that's an interesting point to make for people that are listening to this. again, we're trying to, I guess, people that gravitate to this podcast, as well as wanting to know more about other people in Lee, let's be honest. They also are looking for insight on how you went about doing something. And I think if they've got a side hustle or a side project going, sometimes it's incredibly scary to think, is it big enough or is it serious enough that I can take that step into the real world and make it again, a tangible thing. they will relate to that and maybe look at it think, well, yeah, if Ben and Alice can do that, then why can't I do And we couldn't afford to. we've just turned two. I've only just paid myself for the very first time this month. Well, congratulations, because that's a huge, huge milestone. And it's only just enough to pay the bills, just pay my personal bills. But I didn't want to take any money out of the company because I wanted to put it into new products. I wanted to be able to give customers a product that was at the right price. I thought that there was enough value for that price. uh So much so like our first round, well actually probably the four rounds of collars that Ben has made have always been sold at a loss because he wants the customers to have them at a good price and he wanted to get them out there and he was happy to take that loss. This is where it's difficult from going with something that you do feel passionate about and that means so much to me like emotionally. And it's like a therapy to it, but it also has to be business because otherwise I can't live or I can't eat. it's like, it's that really, it's that fine balance between the two. It's purpose-led from the sound of it. It's purpose-led, which I think when you're making products, don't get me wrong, there are so many brands out there, I'm sure, that would claim to be, are a purpose-led brand and we want to do things right for the consumer. But you can tell when it's just you, you make all of this. Literally your blood, sweat and tears going into, not hopefully not all of that, but it's going into that product and you're creating it and you're packaging it and you're sending it out. So when you say that, I believe it because there's no one else to pass it Every single product, apart from the collars that I designed myself, every single part of it, we presented to a company in Somerset who make handbags because they have to be stitched properly so that they are robust and they'll last a lifetime. So that's again, that's a commitment to making a quality product that you know at this stage is outside of your wheelhouse, however much YouTube you watch. Oh yeah, mean there's a point. Everything else I made myself and it's at some point maybe we'll have to have someone who helps us. I don't really want to necessarily outsource it, but maybe that's a control thing and that's something that I've got to learn to give up. But I do not want to put anything out there that's like subpar or when someone opens it, they don't feel happy to like to receive that. I feel like we've really put effort and then time and energy into it. I can relate to that. think me and the team are exactly the same with the podcast. We could be doing something a lot less of a setup and putting this out there and the sound could be not recorded on these mics and we couldn't have lighting, which people can't see when they watch this on YouTube, but we've got a lighting setup and we've got camera rigs and all these things. We don't have to do that, but we want to be proud of what we're putting out there. that's, that I can really relate. And that comes through. That's how you build. You know this more than me, Alice, but that's how you build a brand that's based on purpose and based on authenticity, which is something that you discussed around how you built the remade brand. And it sounds your injection of your experience is kind of, if this is fair to say, elevated now what you're doing. Cause I look at your social media feed. it is so perfectly polished. It's so well produced. It's so clearly your brand and has a real tonality about it and consistency. I would imagine from what you've said about memes with British or old English bulldogs, it's moved a little. The needle is shifting. Yeah, advanced and I think like we I don't know a lot of businesses and brands say this but I Really really feel believe and I think we can show it is there is so much more than a brand and a business It is a community. Yeah, I talk for hours every night with our customers Some of them I now have their numbers. We voice note. We've been on holiday or a walking holiday with some of them. They send us gifts in the post, we send them gifts that in a way I feel as much as it was Ben's business originally and it gave him purpose and meaning, I think perhaps I didn't realise there was something I was also lacking at the time. And I think, you know, we're in our thirties, a lot of people like married, got kids, we're at a completely different life stage. And I think perhaps there was maybe a bit of loneliness and this business has given me a community of people with like-minded like hobbies and interests and I just love it and I have made lifelong friends from it which is great. I to take it back a step because you both mentioned that you building a business with your partner and we've had Gemma and Wilma on, sorry Wil, Gemma and Wil of Wilma's on and we were talking about the dynamic and what it's like and you've already given us some insight into some of the challenges of building a business together. You've also said that you've both got an ADHD diagnosis. we have a lot of people come on the podcast. Fair enough. seems to be a line. again, it's a generalisation to say more people than not, but there are a few people that have come on with ADHD. So there are definitely traits that mean people that relate to people building their own thing or wanting to put energy into something else. how does, first off, building a business together and ADHD play a part in that. Do you find that there's additional challenges to that or do you harness it in a really positive way and it allows you to put energy in the right place? I I don't want to speak on behalf of you, but I feel like it makes you so hyper-focused that like, Remade is like, your is Ben's baby and because you love it so much and you really get involved in it. It can be a bit overwhelming, I would say. And I think we both found that at the beginning. And I was thinking about this the other day. Do remember when you first used to get your orders in and we didn't have like a proper like process? Yeah. then we'd get overwhelmed. I would sit with a notepad and pen and I'd write them out chronologically. So I'd be like, this is the first order you need to begin with. Chuckle, thought was quite sweet of me, really. But I sometimes also get that because of the engagement in the community we've built. I travel into London once a week for my day job, I'll go onto Instagram, do my DMs, put my phone aside for the whole entire day, get back on the train and be like, I've got 40 DMs, like, where do I start? So I think it can be quite challenging and I've only just recently had a diagnosis and I don't really think I'm really that clued up in it but you've had yours a lot longer. I'm some 36 now, since I was 25 to 11 years. But one side is different because I take medication for it. So for me, I feel like I'm hyper-focused, but I think if anything, it's helped me because I just want to do stuff. I want to get stuff done. I mean like... and I to be at work and I'm like, screenshots and stuff like this needs to be done, this needs to be done. And it helps with that aspect, but it can perhaps be bit overwhelming for Alice because I'm like constantly go, go, go. And the only thing I think about is remade. um Now that I'm doing it full time. I also have to perhaps be mindful of you that just because I want to operate at a certain pace, like I want to get as much time as possible every single day. Yeah, but I think we've found a good groove now. There have been times where Ben's like, we've got to do this now. And I'm like, I'm on the train. Like, my brain's so dead. But I think we found this good groove. And I think you now understand me a lot better. And I just think, yeah, sometimes there's gonna be some challenges. It's a constant, you constantly have to work it, don't you? I don't think you've ever completed either running a business or being in a relationship. And definitely it's very hard to running a business that you've built and you're in the process of building together. yeah, I think not that this is couples therapy, but I think it's important sometimes to be very honest about how you're feeling and how that dynamic might need to change. again, like my... my partner is the sounding board when I get in from the office or any of the stress that I'm dealing with. And sometimes she can very honestly say to me, I can't deal with that. And I think that's important. Sometimes she doesn't say that and she's incredibly supportive, but you have to learn how to communicate. oh And I think we are quite good at that, aren't we? think sometimes we, particularly on a Sunday, tends to be the day we spend together, because Ben tends to work on Saturdays, we go out, we go for a hike, and we're like, let's not talk about remake today. And then we'll be like, OK, just one last thing. And then it's like, right, OK. And we do that constantly. oh that. I was going to ask that. Has there been a Sunday where you've managed to not talk about Remade? Reality, isn't it? Tough boundary. like there's never a day off. More for Ben because he physically makes everything. So if we go away for a week, Ben can, well, he can physically switch off, but his brain is still going. Whereas you'll note this, social media is always on. Like even Christmas day, you're replying to some DMs, you're posted like in the middle of the night. It's just, so that can sometimes be a bit hard. And maybe when you're more established and you've paid yourself for a few months in a row and you've got some money coming in, maybe you can put some more boundaries in. I know, I think it can be a pretty unrealistic ask sometimes to switch off mentally, especially in the very early days of growing something. I struggle. I'm about to celebrate my sixth. Not to doom or gloom, it does get better. But my sixth anniversary and I'm proud of that. It's almost flown by and I still have those moments where I'm like, I cannot mentally switch off. And I'm still to meet someone that sat across from me and said, got the answer to that, John, because if they did, I would pay them money to learn it. Yeah, all small business owners would be like, please, tell me. It's so lovely. I think saying that, yes, we're switched on all the time. um But also I feel grateful. feel like if anything, I'm grateful to have that because it gives, for me, I'm hyper focused. If I'm not focused on this, the... um you that makes you feel good. I'm focused on something else. And most of the time it may be something negative. And you know what it's like, you you then start to like focus on a negative thought or like a feeling and then you start to spiral. So if anything, you know, I focus on it. Yes, it can be overwhelming sometimes, but if anything, it's done so much for me and I think maybe for us in our relationship that. And I think it does ultimately make us really happy. go. you're doing something that gives you purpose, purposeful work, it's okay to be switched on to that. It's when it's the work that drags you down and de-energizes and sucks the life out of you but still takes up all that mental real estate. That's when you're thinking, why am I doing this? This is not tenable to continue. And I think we're really lucky that actually like all of those DMs that I have are all really lovely people saying really lovely things. It's not like we've got 50 complaints. It's just really like lovely people of our community who are sharing pictures of their dogs or asking about our day. And I think we've actually forged really strong connections. And like, for example, last night, one of our customers had mentioned to me that her dad's was going through cancer, I hadn't heard from her for a while. So I just dropped her a message to ask how he was. And she told me that he had the all clear. So I was like, this is amazing. And she came back, she was like, thank you so much for like, asking. I was like, don't worry about it. She was like, but no, it really means a lot. And I think it's, it really is that we've created something a bit more unique and a bit more special. And that's not to those conversations aren't to sell anything or to, you know, you're not. from a genuine sincere. another lead, you it's like, because you actually have a relationship with that person. And I think going back to, you know, when I was working in tech and tech sales, there are moments where I'm like, just cannot go on, I cannot write another email. But then comparing it to a couple of weeks ago, we had our second birthday and we did like a, you know, like a sale. And I slept at the Gasworks and it's just me in there. And it's this huge space. And it got stuck 12, one o'clock and I found Alice and I was like, I'm just going to stay over because I know that The minute I come home, I'm not going to want to get back up. Sleeping on the floor, I was like, this is an honor. This is an honor. We've got that much support from customers that they want to buy something from us that I make with my hands. That I have got sleep here. This is great. Someone even sent us a second birthday card in the post. That's where I'm like, these aren't just customers. This person sent us a second birthday card. At Christmas, our Christmas tree fell over and all the decorations smashed. I posted that on social media. We had like three customers send us Christmas decorations for our tree in the post that they'd made. say Christmas trees. think that's a step above isn't it? Three Christmas trees in a two bed flat. Where's this going? But that's where I'm just like, to me it does just feel different. And I think I love people, I get my energy from people. I love finding out about them. And yeah, maybe I'm a bit too nosy and pride into their lives, but they seem, we all seem to kind of bounce off of each other. So it just works. I think probably part of the success of the brand that you're building online comes from that genuine, sincere interest in other people. Is that something you're mindful of as you continue to grow? Because we've seen, I guess there are stories of brands that were doing that, and it's hard to commit to that as you scale. does that have an impact on... your plans moving forward. Right now, I get it, we're early stages, we're just starting to pay a salary, which is the reality. But let's say this is a bumper year and it's hiring other people and the orders keep going up and processes need to change. Do you have a, I won't say a definition of where you want to go or a clear plan, but are you mindful of keeping that community, keeping that touch point with the people that buy your product and engage with you strong? Absolutely. So we've had like retailers reach out. um Even, you know, six, 12 months ago, and it was very much even at the early stage where I'm spending my salary and putting it into the business, and I've been doing that for two years to keep it going. m It was no, because we want to have that relationship with customers. And it means, you know, from a retail perspective, their margins are usually 50%. That means having a product, the same product at a high price point. Again, we want it. We're so passionate about providing something at a certain price point where I see value. And I think maybe that comes from my relationship with my previous career where it's, think things are overpriced or it doesn't feel good that a customer's not getting enough value from that. Of course. Yeah. I mean, there's some pretty big numbers. So I think going forwards for us, and we've had conversations about this, is that we've now got someone in like Megan, who's great with some social media, who's been helping us, but it's more a case of... not losing Alice's touch on the social media stuff and still being fully, fully involved. But how can we help to grow where we're not just spending money on ads, which is just really, really high touch? How can we provide value through our socials but have that personal touch? But think growing the business going forwards, I'd rather limit growth than for it just to become something where we're just sending product out there, fulfilling it via warehouse, and there's no relationship to customers. And again, going back to the point that you make all this stuff by hand, that's a huge part of what is keeping you going, keeping you committed, keeping you energized. So to take that away, which again, if you keep scaling at a decent rate, there's potential that might need to happen. I mean, we're at the point now where we, there's not, I can't make that many more leads. So we're going to have to, we're going to have to limit those, but that'll be a case of we only sell so many leads per month. I think for me, if being honest, maybe it's a bit of a comfort blanket, like making the stuff. There's definitely an element of control that I don't want to give it up. Yeah. Cause I'm a perfectionist, but also don't want be that person that, that doesn't fulfill like the potential of remade because I can't give up that. And you don't, yeah, and I think just saying that out loud again, for anyone that might be in a similar position, who can relate to that is really important. You don't need to know exactly what's going to happen in five years time. You don't even need to know the answer as to if a massive order came in next week and we thought that that could propel us to the next level and really mean that the next thing we bring out, the next product we do could be however much better, whatever. You don't need to know what's around the corner at that point. because these are all things that businesses have to factor in and it's that fine line. You've built a community, you've built an authentic audience that engages. Because you could have a follow account or an audience of however many hundreds of thousands of people and as a percentage of people that actually buy your product, it's tiny. So what you've done is built the community. Do you think it has been helped by the fact that your product is aimed at dogs? Because I mean, dog people are great, aren't they? Like what a community of... They are amazing. think that, but I think also, so obviously it's dog leads, dog collars, but then we expanded into what we call is a phone sling. So. I've seen this product. I you showed me when I came into Gasworks and saw your... I'm it on my way here. I'll show you afterwards. We sell more of those than any of our other products. It's worth knowing, But those are, Ben created it because when we were out hiking, it was always like, faff to get your phone out your bag or your pockets or in the summer you don't have pockets. It's great if you are dog walking. it's kind of like multifunctional that it is great for someone who has a dog, but you don't also have to have a dog. And we have a lot of customers who also don't have dogs. I've got to say, so there's a lovely lady called Emma from Honey and Toast who spotted us when we were literally just around the corner taking photos, well, Alice is taking photos and just wearing a Honey and Toast back. out and just said, I'd love to do some with some bag handles. So that's like a partnership. Our first partnership when we were like two months in. Yeah. But yeah. big. was stocked at John Lewis at the time. She had a really high Instagram following. We had nothing. And she saw the leads and was like, could you make me handbag handles for this? And so we've done that for the last two years. She was the one who had the idea of the phone slings. And it was a case of, do you think you can make something like this? And I think first of all, it didn't necessarily work out for a partnership for us. were like... I see me, I'm just like, just move forward, move forward, move forward. We're working one together now. But I think with that, that's more of like a purchase that people put thought into. But with the dog leads, I do believe it's more of an emotional purchase. Because if you think about the price point of the leads, no one needs a bespoke, handmade, like best in class lead that will hold a ton. m Dough. Yeah, but and and you know, they're also not cheap. So I think it being an emotional purchase definitely does help. yeah. Dogs are family members as well. Like cat people listening to this that hate dogs and they should turn off this episode now, but don't turn off the episode. have been asked if we could make cat stuff. oh I don't know how I feel about cat leads. haven't done it, have we? No. But yeah. Yet. Never say never. We start petition. have had lots of people giving us ideas. And actually, that's one thing I love is our community gives us ideas and we have acted on them. So then we've, so for example, our grab knots that we've just recently released came from a customer, her dog is called Ren. So then we named the grab knot after Ren and we've had loads of feedback into. products that has helped Ben alter the design and we have people saying, can you make camera straps? Like someone really wants us to make for their sunglasses so they don't lose them. all these ideas. You do bear all of these things in mind and it helps you with the product design. It's been amazing. versatile isn't it as well what you're working with and the other products that could be launched. Yeah, I think as long as we can provide, there's like genuine like twist to something like, can we take something that already exists and make it better? um Then we'll definitely entertain it. I think we've made so many prototypes. The first one's are, it's horrific. um But unless I feel like we can put something out there that I think is a great product, we won't do it. There's so many things we've tried. I mean, like the amount of money we spent on collars just trying to get right is crazy. And obviously it's always got to have been made from mountain climate materials. That's the thing. everything is made. uh a really good point. there's somebody I think with, especially with dogs, especially people want like matching sets of collars, leads, maybe a phone sling. There would be, I think there'd be so much more, there's so much more demand for that that we could meet. think if we just use like subpar products or stuff that's off the shelf. But I think the reason why it feels so good to put something out there when you're a hundred percent happy with it, maybe it's not perfect, but you know, happy that that someone's really going to enjoy it it's going to last forever, is that we use the very best materials. So whether that's a collar, whether that's a phone sling, whether that's a lead, we've got some products that are coming out, lifestyle products, the best quality stuff. That's where it's so rewarding to put it out there. When I came into your studio space at the Gasworks, Greg was kind enough to show me around and I feel like we barged in when you were kind of mid work. it was like walking into a sweet shop. I'll go on to explain why. Visually, your product is just like a treat to look at. You can very clearly see what it does from a performance level. But to look at, there is just something that makes you smile about it straight away. now having met you and now learning about that kind of founder story into it, that and the message you're putting out there to people that are buying your product, that's why it's connecting. Because now it makes sense. Because you care and that's got heart in it. But my initial reaction was like, oh my god, this is just visually appealing. I don't need that. As you say, it's a heart thing. don't need that. don't need it. But I was showing again, my other half before I came in, she was like, we need one of those leads straight away. just visually, it's just so appealing. So straight away what you've built for The social, the community, the actual product itself is amazing. You should be really, really proud. aesthetically pleasing. Like when Ben first showed me the colors, was like, feel like this is like Patagonia for dogs. particularly because Ben only wears black and white, he's wearing gray today, but his color palette is very limited. But yet the dog, like the dog leads. If people haven't seen it, it's anything but. Like a monochromatic. rainbow. But I think also what I love about it is not only do they look good, we're always priding ourselves on them being premium, being strong, being durable, but they have like really great practicalities. They're water repellent, they're dirt resistant. This is really great stuff. So yeah, it's exciting, isn't when you think we're talking about dog leads, right? It's passionate about something, but it really is a case of like you just making something, people like it, you know it's good, you know it lasts forever. um I that's why I made the dog comment as well, without fully knowing that your products are more broader than that. And from the sound of it, they're to become slightly more broad as well. I think when you think about how people make purchases for their pets, it's very different from any other kind of premium products. Like we are willing to spend a good amount of money on our animals. And I think when you think about that community of people, especially when it comes to dogs, which I'm talking about for experience, Yeah, you there's a good, healthy community of people that want to invest in their their Yeah, and they want to keep them safe. You had feedback, didn't you, from a customer once saying that you should really lean more into the safety and security. Like, my dog is my family member. They mean so much to me. And the fact that your leads are really strong and are 100 % with the locking carabiner. He was like, you should lean into that more because people want to keep their family members safe. Yeah. It was crazy. It was this guy who's a banker, guy called Peter, and he was sending me these long emails about what he needs specifically. So we made some custom leads as well. It's only this, this, this. he's like, can we jump on a call? And I was like, okay, is this like a crazy person? But no, this guy was amazing. This guy's got an amazing job. He loves to go hiking. He loves to go skiing. And he was like... you need to do better job at positioning this about the strength, because this is what matters the most to me. And this feeling of like this guy, we're on a Zoom call, there I am with my crazy hair because I've just had my mask on from sealing the rope. And he's taken the time out of his day to say like how we can improve like our positioning because we sent him something, he loves it. And he's like, you know, I want to see you do more of this. And I was like, this is insane that someone's to invest their time. Yeah, people really do care that last weekend we had some customers in the Lake District. I got this voice and I was like, my God, we just met like two dogs were remade and they then took pictures and they put it on their socials. And that's just such a lovely feeling. And we had our very first remade moment, didn't we? Down the seafront a couple of weeks ago, Ben and I were talking and then he just suddenly beelined for this woman. And he's like, I think she was just a bit like, okay, what's going on? Someone we're using our dog lead and we've always spoken about this moment about how exciting and how emotional it be. oh I saw you post about that your socials and that lands doesn't it? I'll call him Will now, not Wilma. Will and Gemma, they were talking about people kind of adopting this phrase, I'm going to go and get a Wilma's and your brand becomes synonymous with something. And you seeing your stuff out in the wild, I just can't, I can't imagine what that feels like. I had a uni friend as well who was drinking in Shoreditch and he sent me this picture from down here and he was like, there's a guy in this pub with a dog with your lead. I was like, oh my god. I wonder if, you know, we're both 36, I wonder if I, and we appreciate this so much because of maybe like the experiences that we've had through, especially for me, not being satisfied in a longer term career, to now have this where you do feel satisfied. It's not necessarily just happiness because happiness is like fleeting, but this purposeful sense every day. If I hadn't have had those years of like just graft, just thinking, I don't really enjoy this, but I've got to do it. And this is the norm and this is what I should be doing. It's a very common narrative for people. And again, one that we see a lot. It's rare that I'm seeing someone come straight out of college or university and landing the thing they want. And maybe the thing they want then doesn't end up being the thing they want. I do think there's a rite of passage that you have to go through. generalization, but most people I speak to in my experience of having gone through jobs, gone through the shit and come out of the other side of it to then land on something. If you're lucky enough, you're fortunate enough, if you Yeah, I think there is a degree of luck. You have to stumble across something at times, but if you can find it, it only happens once you've been through the rough times to then land on it. It might be a generalization, but I think that's a pretty fair completely agree. And I think that was why it's so difficult because I was quite lucky early on to get lucky. I worked for a big company that sold software and then I went to another company that was a big partner of that and my salary was great. Everything on paper was amazing. So I got to travel all the time. There were so many benefits to it. You had like a nice car, you had watches, like you had that light. thing on paper that I thought um would almost, that sense of validation that I was maybe like enough for, I'd reach some kind of success. That's when I felt, and it's almost cliche, but I've looked so empty. And that was like the, perhaps the start of like the downward spiral of like my mental health journey where I had this thing that I thought would make me happy or feel satisfied was the very moment that I just felt just almost nothing. And that was really tough because you feel like this is the route that I should be taking. And I've kind of reached this point where I feel like I should. I should be satisfied with that, but I wasn't. Yeah, again, I'm not alone to that because I can relate to that. I think a lot of people have a definition of success They're like why am I not happy with this? I've checked every box I need to check you going back to your thing of needing a prestigious job Yeah with a prestigious brand or leading a job that's gonna allow me to make a certain amount of money and you do that yeah, you take those boxes you get the shiny things and you get the cool cars and when you get when you're there and you're sat kind of like let's call it a top of a mountain or a hill whatever and you look at me again, This isn't how I thought it And that can, that's a crushing disappointment. And you feel what a waste. But again, sometimes it needs to happen as we say, for them to come out the other side and realize. Yeah, and it's difficult, right? Isn't it? Because you're so fortunate to be in a position where you can kind of get to that point where you're waking up and you don't have to worry about... I've also been not having enough money to, I think, even buy LucasAid. Years later, right from the shop, I'd have to check my balance to see, I go and afford a Red Bull to keep me going? So, it's so fortunate to be in that position, but it's difficult, I think, if you haven't perhaps... reached the point where you think it's going to make you happy. And if you're fortunate enough that it does make you happy, like that's amazing. But for me, wasn't, it really wasn't that. That's where I think all of the values that I had and all of the beliefs that I had, I realized that weren't right or weren't right for me. um And you feel lost. You feel so lost because the thing that you're striving for. And actually, you don't need a lot, do you? We won't say what we feel are happiest when we are outdoors in nature and we're like, is this because we're going back to our human roots as cavemen? But when we go out and enjoy time together, we don't spend money. We are just simply outdoors. We had James Lawrence, a man about country come on the podcast. He had a very similar epiphany when he moved down to Cornwall and just rediscovered his love for being outdoors and the outside and just wanted to be this advocate for other people doing it. Which sounds silly, like everyone knows what they should be doing. Everyone knows that maybe the peace comes from reconnecting with nature and just getting rid of all your material stuff. That's hard in a society that... that prizes those things too. it's lovely to hear that you know what your off switch is. You know what your disconnect looks like. Hello, me and Hugo are back on your screens once more to ask you to rate and review the podcast. Now, I was hoping that Hugo would look far more cute than he does at the moment. He just wants to sleep. And I thought that that cuteness might... motivate you to rate and review. But it's just me and I don't look cute. So I'm sorry about that. But if you could take the 15 seconds that it takes to rate and review the podcast, I would be eternally grateful. Thank you. Back to the episode. I'm going to ask you one final question and then we're going to play a game. that's okay. I'll always apologize in advance for the games because I try my best to make them relevant. the question beforehand for anyone listening to this, and I'm going to target this at you Alice as well, but when is the right time to make a, I'm going to call it a side hustle Ben, but only from Alice's perspective in the definition being you're in a full-time job. You're also doing and balancing the work that you're doing with Remake. But when does it become the right time or is there ever a right time to think, Do I transition into making the side hustle the full-time? Yeah. I mean, I think this is a bit of a tricky question. It's a hot topic of what we're talking about recently. So Ben has obviously just made this transition or making the transition and going completely full time. I love my day job. That also does really make me happy. I also like security and stability. So I'm not really as much of a risk taker as Ben. I think one day it could happen, but I think I need a bit more of a long kind of runway. So I would need to see that it has been stable for a good amount of time and then I'd be able to do it. But I can see Ben is already there and it is definitely the right step for him because it makes him so happy. The business is really thriving and it is like excelling. And I also do think if you don't give it a shot, then you'll always wonder what if. And if it doesn't work out, you can always go back and get a job. Like there's always jobs around. It's the most common advice we get, like to you've got to do it at some point you will get to a stage where you just have to commit to it and then yeah, worst case scenario is that there will be something, the universe will find you something to fall back on. I think it's probably a feeling, isn't it? Like you probably just had that feeling in your gut. But what happened, when was the shift? Was it an internal shift? Was it a feeling or was it very clearly, okay, I can see this, maybe it's a numbers thing. If I did this, this and this, there's a future here. definitely not, um I definitely don't plan that far ahead. I'm definitely not nervous. It was a feeling. was, and we had, has been, this is very typical because we have, I was having this conversation, Alice wants more financial stability. For me, I don't need a lot, if anything. So I'd prefer to spend most of my day happy doing something that's fulfilled, even if I have to go without, um you know, just day to day life. You know, if I have to cut back on something, I'm happy to do that, to do something. But it was a feeling. It felt right. I couldn't afford to do or make that move, but it seems to have just happened. I think it was more a case of being, again, this is one really fortunate to have worked in tech, even though there's things that definitely weren't fulfilling. You get garden leave. I three months garden leave, which effectively means I was paid for three months to do anything. Basically, don't go and get another job for three months. work in tech sales. That's it. So like that's that's was a blessing. Yeah, so that gave me the confidence the ability to as of like last week be like I'm not going to another job I'm gonna stick with this because each month I focused on this we've been able to grow um the byproducts of being putting that effort and energy into it. I think the biggest mistakes that I've made throughout life are maybe just overthinking things and not listening to my gut. I went down the completely wrong career path because I thought I did something that I felt like I had to to fulfill an insecurity as opposed to just something that actually felt fulfilling. I probably should have been a carpenter. I would have been a terrible carpenter, but I probably would have enjoyed it. Maybe I should do you in a carpentry course. Possibly. to some point down the He did say wooden spoons, It's on the mind. I think just now just listening more to my gut, I you have that feeling right of whether it's... buying something or just being somewhere like a certain space of whether something feels right or something doesn't. If you have that right feeling, follow your gut. But also for me anyway, hopelessness is the worst place to be. So don't do something if your back is against the wall. If you really cannot afford to do it and you cannot make it to the next month, the thought of not having anywhere to live or a roof over your head is the worst feeling. just be mindful. I think that's really honest advice. think it being a feeling, some people listen to it, I I won't say it more prescriptive than that. I want to know that I can draw all of these 12 month projection out. And a lot of people feel that's what needs to happen. But I started my business because a month before I started, I went into work and handed my noticing because I thought I was going to have like a mental breakdown. I was in a really bad head space and it happened from necessity. I had no plan. I literally for the first 12 months of my business, was survival six months into the business COVID hit. I was literally sat there thinking, okay, just day by day one step is the just keep swimming thing. One step in front of the other. There is not always this plan, uh master plan that you need to stick to. It is a instinct. It is a gut. It really is. And it's sometimes hard to work out what that gut feeling is and like to really listen to it. And I think that's definitely something that maybe you just learn with age or extensive therapy. It feels right for you. the decision because it feels right, even if it was a wrong decision, at least you know exactly and you feel like you did the right thing based on the information you had or the way that you felt. Never ever regret it. There won't ever be that what if. Yeah, that is again, in the best way, that's what so many people say. Like you will much, it's better to regret trying it than never having done it. Just sit there going, if I've done that? At least you know. We're going to play a game. We have historically played a game called This or That. This is a game called From This to That. So you guys are called Remade, as in the business, you make a product from something else. I'm going to show you, and you are against each other on this, so you're going to take turns. It is a competition. I'm going to show you a picture of something that has been made from something else. You need to tell me what the product is now, but you also need to tell me what the product used to oh my goodness, I'm going to be so bad at this. We're doing this on a laptop screen. hope you need glasses or if you do, you've got contact lenses on. Right. Okay, Ben, we're going to start with you. I think this is quite self-explanatory as to what it is. So right now, just for anyone listening to this, we're seeing what we're seeing, A woman in a dress. A mermaid. dress. She does mermaid like quality about it. we so it's a woman in a dress. So it's a dress what it used to be. What's it made from? So the dress used to be My eyes are terrible. uh you You were literally to... It looks like it used to be a fish or a peacock. Why am I? It used to be plastic bottles, but I like where you're going with Okay, that wouldn't have been right um Sounds better than an actual fish. Never forget that. Okay. So you've got a point so far Ben, sorry. Right, we're going to go with Alice next. So I think the product is quite simple. What are we looking at Alice? It is a wallet. What did it used to be? it used to be? I feel like it's some sort of like high viz, like, highways maintenance. No. god. I just feel like this is an education for it. kind of like that. Would you buy a fire hose wallet? didn't know they existed. I didn't know they existed, but I perhaps would if it had been used. to save someone. Okay, right. So you're both on zero so far. Okay. This is what we're seeing. This is a bowl, something you'd maybe see on a table. uh watching it, what are the use of it? As opposed to a chef. a vinyl record. okay. This is a piece of artwork made from corks, from wine. So it's not a piece of artwork. I feel like I've thrown you through the orientation of the image. I'm to give you one more. This is awful podcasting there. Hope you're watching this on YouTube. It's close to a rug. It's something you put your feet on. It's a bath. It's a bath mat. But do you know what? Should we give half a point to Alice for that? I think so, I mean was the wrong way round. Do know what? I'll take your critique. We're going to give you a point. I mean that'd be a terrible bath mark because the cork doesn't absorb... I didn't write the product, but I know it. Right. What are we saying, Ben? We do. Thank you. And what? I'm really, I'm really lost here. Just just anything i'm uh an answer. I could be made from like a... almost like honeycomb. Look, it's bike inner tube. Who makes earrings out of bike inner tube? No idea. They look pretty cool though. I'd give that a go if I did. And dangly earrings aren't really my thing. Come on, mate. I can send you the link. You're still on one. Okay. And it's what we're looking at there. A candle. What did it used to be? what the packaging or the like the actual candle has got some stuff in it. So it's been formed by this product. uh It used to be... I'm going give you a clue. Something you drink. mentioned it. Coffee grounds. Coffee grounds in a candle. I like that! I bet that smells... good! I do not know So you're on two, Ben you're on one. This is there's jeopardy here and I like it. Ben, what is the product first? It's a belt. And what's it made from? It is made from a bike tire. You can see the treetop. uh Brilliant, well done. I like this. you claw it back here, Alice. Yes, this is an armchair. Yeah, and it is made from denim maybe jeans Yeah feel like, that an easy one? Anyway, you just... Okay, it's fine. So yeah, would you have that in your house? A denim upholstered chair. Maybe not. Maybe in works. But yeah, a bit too colourful. brings the workshop. Okay, this is the penultimate question for each of you. Okay, so... What are we seeing? I believe this is a wallet or a Kate Lucker glasses case or something. I'd say I'll take one. It's a card holder. it's a version of What it used to be. It's really difficult because it looks like different grains of leather. Are you on? Alice, it's not your go, but you're correct. So I don't know what to do with this. You really scuppered the game, but you are correct. This is by Hermes, the luxury brand. This is something they do called, I think Petty H. I'm not saying it a French accent, but this is what they make from their leather scraps. If I told you the price of this. Now, their Birkenbags go for tens of... That is £700 for that. No. Yes, for that small thing. If you spent £700 on something like that, that's quite a markup, isn't it? Leather scraps. Sorry, Ames. Don't sue me. Okay, this is last one. Alice. Okay. Okay. products I think is simple enough. What we're seeing, we're seeing a trend. I mean, probably know this because you're really into your trainers, aren't you? Do know what it's made from? Worst taste in shoes. I actually showed Alice these ones because I love the way that they made them. about this I was like don't buy them they're disgusting but I can't remember what they were made from so please enlighten Go on. Can you remember? Yeah, I can't remember what they're made from. I know they are 3D printed cells. Okay. I think it's recycled plastic. is recycled plastic. So you've both stolen each other's points, which means we're in a draw scenario, Tom. Should we just say we are? Okay, cool. We're in a draw scenario, which means you get the tiebreaker. Now this is sudden death. So it's whoever, this is buzzing first. So we haven't got a buzzer. So just say out loud. Are we ready? Yeah. Okay. Well, it's Lady Gaga in a dress made out of me. Alice just turned into a machine then. It was so competitive. uh is Lady Gaga's dress, which actually, and I did Google this, is made out of meat. I remember this! you imagine the smell? Just... Mean what look you've got to be brave haven't you I think there was a real point they were trying to make and I did Google that as well and can't remember it but to make to wear a dress out of me time of when that vegan Netflix documentary came out was it something about not eating me? I just don't know if you could pay me enough to wear no an animal like that or the string of animals like that anyway Okay, uh thank you so much Thank you, I appreciate it right we've got the closing tradition, okay? Let me do this I'm excited about this. Everyone's excited and do you know what? I'd like to think mum doesn't disappoint when she leaves her questions. So let's do it. Let's have a look. There's always a first. This is the. Yeah, I was like... Hi Alice and Ben. I think your products are lovely. I think they're very inspiring too. Have you got any other ideas for future products? Thank you. Don't lie. She can be. It's nice that she's in a quiet background. We've said this in a few episodes now. She chooses to sometimes stand next to a running bath. She never stops. So any, what can you share? Yes. And there's things we've been working on for the last 12 months. So come the end of September, we are actually working on some amazing hoodies. Okay. So going into more of like their lifestyle space. It's something that's again, super premium when you wear it and put it on. think a few of your customers have some their own prototypes. It feels amazing and it will last forever. Yes, when we've actually caught up with some customers and we went to the Lake District recently, Ben goes out to the car and he gets out, he makes them put them on and he's like, what do you think about the weight? What do you think about the textures? What do you think about the colours? You are a perfectionist. But that is, there's some other things in the pipeline, but I think probably keeping the other one under wraps. I'd love to add. We've got a, we're still at the early stages, we've got first prototype, but I a bum bag and it'll go along. just connects so well with your other pieces. I mean with the hoodie it was more a case of not just a piece of clothing but we love to go hiking so if you come down from a mountain and you're freezing cold and you want something that's like a weighted blanket and it warms you up so yeah it's something that's kind of thoughtful but there's some really cool touches as well that complement our leads. If it wasn't so hot today, I would have thought they might even be wearing it. Guys, it's been an absolute pleasure. It's pleasure speaking to you both and learning more about how this has all come to pass and the journey you've been on so far. And from the sound of it, it's just going to keep growing. uh it's a privilege to be at this part of your journey, having this chat and then hopefully in years to come, we can sit down again and have another conversation. But thank you so much. You're so welcome. Thank you. Guys, well done. smashed it, that was so, so good. Hugo, can you sit up? Right, Hugo, have you got any comments? Have you got any comments on the podcast? I've never, I honestly thought this dog was a performer. It just couldn't be much more bothered about being on this. I just want you to see if you can see on the camera, I left it up gently. See that? That's his bandage. He's not well at the moment, you mate? You okay? No, but- You go. You go.