JobsWorth - Bee O'Dame

On this week’s episode of JobsWorth, I’m joined by Hair and Makeup artist, Bee O’Dame.

Bee certainly knows how to make an impression. From the moment she walked in to record the podcast, she quite literally lit up the room. She’s someone who exudes confidence, isn’t afraid to be herself, and will quite happily show someone the door if they’re not willing to accept who she is. And in a world where so many of us pander to other people’s perceptions of how to act, what to wear, or who to be… it’s really bloody refreshing.

But building the confidence to be yourself takes hard work, and in Bee’s own words, she’s made a lot of mistakes. Fortunately, she’s also learned from them.

Bee is a doer. She makes sht happen. She, in all the best possible ways, is a force of nature, and over the years (two careers, four kids, and a twenty-year relationship with her husband Vic), she’s worked a lot of sht out.

We explore her early passion for fashion, how she built a successful career for herself in the city, and why she stepped away from it to raise her family and begin again in a space where she could let her creativity flourish.

We talk about red carpet events, zombie movies, the impact of YouTube, the power of saying yes to opportunities, learning as you go, and Bee’s view that confidence comes from capability.

Please enjoy... Bee O’Dame.

#jobsworth #podcast #career #worklife #storiesthatinspirechange

The JobsWorth website is here www.jobs-worth.com

Watch the show on YouTube; https://www.youtube.com/@jobsworthpodcast

Follow the show on Instagram; https://www.instagram.com/jobsworthpodcast/?hl=en

Follow me on LinkedIn; https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnhawker/

Follow me on TikTok; https://www.tiktok.com/@globaltechcollective

Subscribe to my newsletter 'The Job Journal from GTC'; https://subscribepage.io/TheJobJournal

Learn more about my proper job; https://www.globaltechcollective.com/

Contact the show on hello@jobs-worth.com

Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 3:06 Early Aspirations and Background
• 6:02 Career Beginnings and Influences
• 8:55 Navigating Education and Career Choices
• 12:11 Transitioning from Corporate to Creative
• 15:01 Finding Creative Outlets
• 17:59 Building a Career in Makeup and Special Effects
• 20:59 The Importance of Mindset and Attitude
• 24:07 Balancing Family and Career
• 26:56 The Role of Education in the Makeup Industry
• 30:12 The Impact of AI on Creative Makeup
• 32:59 Reflections on Success and Personal Growth

Transcript

0:00

frustration for me was that I wasn't fully myself. I used to get told off about what I wore when I came into the office. you ever wear this to the office? uh this is just for you, John. This is an original. yeah, no. Hello and welcome back to Jobsworth. This week, first off, if you're watching this on YouTube, bit of a change of scenery. So I am filming from the, countryside in West Sussex, um, in what may in a couple of minutes time turn into a torrential downpour. So I'm going to keep this quite short, but this week's guest is Bea O'Darmy, who is a hair and makeup artist. Now, if you can, I implore you watch this episode on YouTube. If you've seen any of the teasers we've dropped on Instagram, you'll already know that Bea, think it's fair to say this made more effort than anyone that's ever come in to record in the hatch. She's got a really interesting anecdote about what happened to her on the way to the hatch. And if you've seen the efforts and the lengths that Bea went to, it makes the story even more amazing. So I implore you, please watch on YouTube. But Bea is unapologetically herself and it is so refreshing to hear. the experience of someone that has worked a lot of shit out. She came up with a, I think a really powerful saying, confidence is competence. And I think that's guided her in a lot of what she's gone on to do. I think hair and makeup artist doesn't strictly describe all of the things, all of the skills that be as an et al box. So I can't wait for you to listen and I can't wait for you to watch this one. It's worth a watch, trust me. So enjoy this week's episode. If you've got any feedback. Please get involved in the comments and stay tuned for next week. you B, before we start with the opening question, first off I need to address for anyone listening to this, first off you're missing a trick because your incredible makeup that you've done, we feel completely honoured that you've put yourself through the pains of doing this. But for people that are listening to this and not watching, please explain what you've done to your face. Okay, I've got gills on my neck prosthetic. So they're silicon prosthetics. And then I've got the frills on my face. So it's sort of like a mermaid vibe. I've used a look that I would use for sort of high fashion for catwalk on my hair so that it's not too much. So we're not too much. You've really toned it down for us. I don't think anyone has ever came in and made such an impression. Please just share the anecdote of what happened while you were making your way to the hatch this evening as well. Just the bridge version of what happened. Okay, so I was driving along the seafront, had my music on rather loud. It was some house music. Too cool. Too cool to be careless. But yeah, anyway, so was driving along. I do drive quite fast. My music was quite loud and I got pulled over by the police because they wanted to know what on earth I was doing. So I had to get out, show them the whole look and I told them that I was coming here and they laughed. Yeah, literally. I don't think they cared that much. They were just laughing. And then I said, can I go? Because I'm going to be late. And they said, OK. Well, thank you. Because not only have you put yourself through the pains of doing the actual work, but also getting pulled over for the police. I think that's a really kind thing. fun day. Yeah, exactly. day in the life of Bea. We are going to start then with the opening question on the podcast, which is when you were younger, what did you want to be when you grew up? Fashion designer. Okay. Yeah. So that really is a really strong through line for everything else you've gone on to do. Not precisely, although from your long list of talents that you've got, fashion design I'm sure is interwoven in there too. But how old were you when you remembered having that kind of vision that fashion design was something for you? I was really young. I was only about six or seven because I used to make all the kids from down the road dress up and be my models. I'd photos of them. yeah, by the apple tree. by the apple tree. Okay. When you were growing up, I did a bit of research, jumped online, looked at your questionnaire, jumped online and did my own research as well. There's something I saw that mentioned you grew up between the UK and Spain. So what was that like and why did you have to kind fit in both camps? Well, we're actually full circle because we launched our yacht from here. My dad was a builder. Yeah. And he built a yacht just to see if he could. He did. It was called San Vico. We launched it. The Echo came, the whole school came. Slightly devastated. I think it was about five or six. We live just up the road from Tawkel Station. like local dad was building every night on it. And I don't know how long it took him, but we launched it, sailed it through the Bay of Isca and to Spain. Yeah. And we lived in Palma for a little while on a Tiki. And then we, our final mooring was up in Bonire, which is in Malpas in the top of Poyenza and Alcudia. It's the point that Michael Douglas owns. Wow. How old were you then? Yeah, so I don't know, six, seven, I'm not sure, but it went on until I was 13 and then we were back here full time. That's an incredible experience. you were going to school out there and... No, no. We went to school here, went to Chalkwell Hall. em But we used to get given work, so we used to go backwards and forwards like 13 times a year sometimes. So it was sort of like a lot of traveling. I wouldn't say that we were anywhere. We were sort of more here and then we used to go out there regularly and always there for the summer holidays. So we'd spend a couple of months out there. Yeah. What an incredible life to have had at that age too, to have gone through that experience. And I can imagine how big a thing that was launching out from here too. You landed or you kind of first, again, from what I know of you, was it a job uh model dressing? Yeah. At 13 years old. So you've gone from... this very early memory of wanting to be a fashion designer and then your model dressing at 13. How does one get that chance to start doing that at 13? Well, we had friends, Paddy and Sue, that used to come and on the boat. They owned an older women's dress shop in Lee Ridgeway. So Sue was there for years and she wanted someone to keep an eye on the jewellery and helped dress the models. So I went and helped and then every now and again we were pitching and do more than we were sort of booked for and help with hair and... things like that. it was something that I knew I was interested in and I loved the vibe backstage. And then once I did it with her, there were other opportunities that came up and yeah, just really fun. I always try and say yes to everything because you never know what's going to come from it. yeah. Was it at 13 years old that the seed was truly sown in you, that you wanted to go and do this? being at that age, six, seven years old, being I want to be a fashion designer, how do you actually, again, you don't have the experience to know how am I ever going to make that a job? What path do I take? But at 13, bit more, again, Yeah, wasn't, it wasn't the vibe like at home that wasn't encouraged at all. The creative side, although there were other people in the family that were hugely artistic. They never actually pursued it or ventured into that. They were very talented. And then I was encouraged to do something practical. So I then focused, set my sights on, I wanted to be a legal secretary. Okay. So I sort of switched and that was the focus through school was to go into an office, start out doing secretarial. um Yeah, and I did that. Was that, at that time, the podcast we talk a lot about careers advice and guidance and of the time, did you see a lot of other people trying to go down that route? Yeah, like I think for girls, if you weren't hugely academic and going to be a doctor or a solicitor and go on to university, then yeah, very much people were pushed at my age, because I'm older than I look. We were encouraged to sort of do secretarial, some form of office work. So um yeah, I actually got very terrible results in my GCSEs. I've got four Ds, four Es and an F for French. I spoke Spanish the whole way through it, which was great. But didn't get any, you didn't get marked up for speaking. We didn't do that at our school. It was German or French. Yeah, I went to a rough school. No Spanish for us. So yeah, they weren't impressed with me at all. I was in top set for everything. So I knew that it was like a blip and that I could turn things around. yeah, there was stuff going on. I was trying to help a friend and I was working a lot while I was at school. So I already had three jobs. So I was like, I'm not worried about it. It's fine. I'm just going to go to college. smashed it at college, got distinctions for everything and I condensed it into one year and then I went to London. That's amazing. That work ethic, where does that come from? Because you said you had three jobs at that age. Again, I don't know many started working when I was about 10 or 11 um in Spain. I used to make all the desserts and do washing up and anything for sort of, well then it was just for chocolate and croissants because it was for Claude and Madeleine. Ironically, a French couple that lived in Spain. uh And then, yeah, I just thought I want to make money. want to, I bought my first flat when I was 18. I wanted to achieve stuff. I wasn't interested in. boyfriends or anything like that. It was literally just work and fun with my friends. That's all I cared about and traveling. put a finger on where that drive came from. No, it's fine. I'm just interested sometimes in, yeah, if you've ever thought about it or can identify where that drive has come from, or is it just something you've always, a way you've always operated? Yeah, I've always been quite hardworking. mean, I suppose my dad was extremely hardworking and he achieved a lot. He traveled the world, lived in different countries, spoke different languages. So he was someone that um I sort of looked up to for that. Yeah, I don't know. I just wanted to get out and live on my own. So I think for me, was just, that was my... sort of determination was built around if I didn't have the deposit, I couldn't get it. You knew the end goal, so you needed to connect the dots to make it happen. Yeah. oh Was there a point, because you did go on to go up into the city and uh have a career in business and banking and you were a PA, EA, weren't you, as well when you went up there? Was there a part of you as a really creative person, sitting opposite you now, that is oozing out of you, but also through what you went on to do, was there a part of you yet you can tick all the boxes to say, this is paying the bills and this is giving me a career and allowing me to pay for my apartment and... all of the things, but was there a part of you that was frustrated that you weren't doing something more creative for your out on out job? Yeah, I think that I always envisaged one day switching careers. And I did think if I ever had children on my maternity, my aim was to teach myself how to sew properly and start all the pattern cutting and go for it. when I was in London, I just want to say quickly, I sort of worked my way up. So it was a progressive thing. started out as like a team secretary. then PA, then EA, like executive assistant, then legal assistant, then project analyst, then a project coordinator, then a project manager. So by the time I left London, I was quite successful in that I had already progressed and I was doing a lot of creative work because I worked for American Express and I used to design the non-domestic credit cards because I worked for the sales and negotiation team. And I used to also create a lot of things because I used to be in charge of their, em all of the training and things like that. So I used to host events in Vegas. So I used to get to do lots of trade shows and, lots of creative things. So I was quite lucky to incorporate it. And then as a PA or anyone that organizes events, you have to do a lot of creative stuff and get creative with the budgets. I used to run a million pound budget. yeah, I, got used to being creative in different ways, sometimes in like practical, logical, financial ways as well. That's a really interesting way to put it because I have historically described myself definitely in earlier episodes as not being creative. there was bit of definitely from my mum and brother, they go, you are creative. it has made me think more broadly about what creative means. Because we tend to say creative and think, again, the amazing work that you've done to your face is incredibly creative. But I do think there are different ways you can be creative. So it's important for anyone listening to this. To be able to acknowledge that and identify that, think. That it doesn't have to always be painting or drawing or creating incredible prosthetics and makeup and all of these things. can be a different outlet. But it sounded like you had that outlet. So maybe there wasn't frustration there for you. You were reaching goals. Sorry to interrupt you, but I did, I worked for other people then and I was under a lot of constraints because I was like a representative of American Express. I worked for the president's office. So I didn't um just have like a typical nine to five job. I was on the phone in the middle of the night on my Blackberry and doing calls with JAPA and LACC and things. because I dealt with people globally, my work was very full on. But yeah, I think it's interesting to see the two sides of it. But the frustration for me was that I wasn't fully myself. I used to get told off about what I wore when I came into the office. you ever wear this to the office? uh is just for you John, this is an original. uh yeah, no, I used to get told off for wearing tyres and I had some high heels that looked like spats and things and they used to just tell me off for being too much. But I'm like, go get less, I'm not worried. So, is that, that again been your mindset and was your mindset at the time to be, to kind of push back against that and be like, you'd kind of take it. This is me. I do a great job. Go and get someone that can do better. If I'm not good enough, get someone better. And they're like, no, you're fine. Just take the tile. So there's a degree of frustration creeping in from that. you've got parameters, you've got structure, you've got... m And there's a lot of politics. So there's lots of things that happen that I don't necessarily agree with. Behaviours in people. It's a hugely competitive environment. I used to have secretaries that worked for me that clearly wanted my job. There's a lot of competition and things and it's, you know, it's interesting because you get that in every walk of life. doesn't matter what you do and there's boring parts and great parts, but yeah, the frustration was definitely there. And I felt, I was spoiled when I was younger to the point that I had so much freedom. When I used to get annoyed or felt trapped, I used to go out on my boat. Like I had a little rib with a little 25 horsepower engine. I used to go and meet people. I even ended up on the King's boat in Spain. But I think it sort of... can't just toss that out as an aside. Maybe you don't want to talk about that too much. Okay, but that's still pretty cool. It's sort of like we used to just go out in the morning and we used to have like a donut. So we used to take that out and it makes people talk to you and people used to swap jet skis with us and go on the donut and things. And it was just, I was used to being free. I learned to drive when I was like 12, 13, my dad had a green Cadillac convertible. Do drive that fast as well? Loud music? Yeah. When someone's inebriated, yes. No, I think like, for me, just, I was very free. I was used to being myself. And so changing careers was definitely the way to go. Once I had sort of two stepchildren and then my own two children, I was like, I've got four kids. I can't. Yeah. So were you doing anything at the time where you were working in that corporate world? Outlets, creative outlets outside of that. So more in line with what you're doing now. So beauty, hair, the... I mean, I used to get my friends ready when we would go out because we always used to go clubbing and go out all the time. And I used to get everyone ready and do their hair and makeup. But like for our wedding, I did everything. So I designed and made all the centerpieces and sort of did lots of things myself. And everyone was like, well, you've got the money to sort of pay someone to do that. And I was like, no, I like doing it. I don't see it as a chore. I enjoy it. And then unfortunately, some people close to us died. And I was absolutely mortified when I found out the cost of flowers. And I was like, no way I can do that. So I sort of went down and said, I had a business and got a load of, from the wholesaler, got a load of flowers and made it for them at like a 10th of the price. And I was like, gosh, it's the least you can do when there's something so sad going on, but you shouldn't have to scrimp on nice over the top flowers. Yeah. That's lovely. you describe yourself as someone that makes things, paint, you've got like your list of hobbies and pastimes. And then when you factor in what it is you do, I wonder how you have time to do anything else, but we'll talk about that in a second. But you're very clearly someone that's driven to get things done and do things for people and do things for yourself in your own way. Yeah. In a very unique way, which is I think a beautiful thing. And it shows that kind of confidence that you have. Yeah. I mean, there's a, that's a double edged sword. Confident and secure in who you are because it threatens other people. So I often overwhelm people. um often too much. um but when I see people's face or their mannerisms and things change, I know what's happening. And, I find it, that. It's easier for me to decide that they're probably not people I'd be around again. I talk about that kind of thing as a filter. And actually, if you can be very upfront and authentic and true to who you are, it acts as a filter and it attracts the people you want in your life and propels away the people that you don't. It saves you a lot of time and a lot of... I've always been this way though, even as a child, my sister's like, she doesn't give a shit. Even when I used to get caught doing stuff, I'd be like, yeah, I've done it and what? Like I just didn't, I don't feel that, like I do think about everything I do. So it's a conscious choice. I've never been someone that got drunk and was like, oh, blacked out, I was drunk, I don't remember. I remember everything. So I'm like... I know what I'm doing, it's a choice. em you know, if someone complains that I've upset them, it's intentional because I don't like the way they've behaved. It's always a reaction to things they've done. it's really, refreshing to hear, especially if you could approach life like that. I think it's really refreshing. And also to be honest about it and in that intentionality and going, I love the word intentional. If you can be intentional with your actions, your motivations and your thoughts and all these things, that's a really liberating and freeing place to be. for me, but it's quite threatening for other people. It will be. It can be. It can be lonely in the sense that people aren't often on my wavelength because I think about a lot of things in a day. I've got loads of tabs open in my brain and on my phone and it's like, yeah, there's a lot going on. You have already said when your kids came along and your family was there, that's when you started to think about this career change. So what were the steps that you took to make that happen? Um, well, I'd got myself into a situation where I had, um, the job that I wanted to do in the project managing, but I was able to work from home a lot. there was a lot of flexibility, um, on that. So it was nice cause I had the two teenagers, they did lots of afterschool clubs. Um, so it was nice to be able to take them and see them and pick them up and things. And then I thought, uh, once we were married, when we had the other two, I just thought. I can't have two babies and two teenagers and be gone from six o'clock in the morning till like nine o'clock at night. I couldn't do it. easy decision for you. As someone that very clearly, it seems like when you speak about work, yeah, you're accepting of the fact that some bits of shit, some bits you to just deal with, but it sounds like you enjoy work. And all of this work, it comes across. So was it hard? You've got that, you know, parent guilt, mum guilt, you've got the two parts of you being pulled, which is I love my career. I'm very proud of it. But I've also got these two human beings that maybe I can't juggle all of that. Was that a hard decision? I made the decision before I got pregnant. Like I say, everything was intentional. I knew that things were coming to a close. I had bought multiple properties, so I was trying to manage that as well. I was juggling a lot and it was taking its toll on my health, on my relationship. And once we were married, I just thought, I don't really need to be doing this. And if I sort of... brought everything back a little bit. I could actually be who I wanted to be rather than running around after everyone else. So I'd always put what I wanted on the back. Like I've enjoyed everything, even when I cleaned toilets under my sister's name, because I was too young to work. So I nicked her national insurance number on her birthday. used to give her cards for everyone she worked with. She loved it. She got like a little tax rebate. It was great. Amazing. think like everything I've done, I want to do it to the best of my ability. I don't see it as like, like with people, doesn't matter who they are or where they come from or whatever. If they're nice and they're hardworking and stuff, then they're my kind of people. I just, so for me, when I was thinking about life and everything, we used to have like little catch up moments, me and Vic. And we'd have alignment sessions. I used to call them because I was used to doing so many appraisals for the 70 women that worked for it. But yeah, I think it was one of those that I was like, I'm going to have to change a lot because I'm too stressed and I'm ill. And I don't think that I could have been physically pregnant and still in that role because I was traveling and yeah. So again, very intentional about how you did that. with that coming along, was your opportunity to now start to, I mean, you're raising a family, you're raising your two kids as well, but you've now got this, I don't want to say time, because in some ways you wouldn't have had as much time, but maybe time away from at least... the traditional workspace to think now how do I make this about me? How do I drive my passion and energy into something that I want to do? So talk to us about how the first kind of route, what was the first step that you took to make that happen? First thing I did was get rid of my other properties. Okay. So that I had the flexibility financially. No, I just thought the easiest thing for me to do is finish because we bought a large house. I was like, want to finish the house. Like I said, had the two teenagers. I wanted everything to be a less stressful situation because I knew I was going to bring a whole new box of tricks to the table. So I thought with more kids comes more problems and more pressure. So I got rid of the flats. I got waxed wrong when I was pregnant with Cassius because when I had jazz, sorry, I had agreed that I was going to leave London, but I actually went back and worked for Bank of America Merrill Lynch. But then they sold the investment arm to Julius Baer in Zurich. So I was commuting backwards and forwards, heavily pregnant with a baby and two teenagers. So it was like hectic. And I was like, I'm just going to finish this. Cause it was a project. had a deadline and a finish date. I was like, I'll finish that. Yeah. And I will get my sort of money and then everything will be great. So I was traveling a lot doing that. then, um, yeah, Cass come along and, uh, I. got waxed and they did it wrong. And I was like, there's a gap in the market. I reckon I'm going to be a beautician. That was the genesis of it. And then everyone laughed. oh People laugh at me a lot. But like I say, I couldn't give a shit. So for me, don't, I'm not worried about impressing. I don't need more friends. I'm not worried about impressing people. I'm not looking for a boyfriend. I don't have those kinds of needs. So for me, I just, I like enjoying what I've got and I just thought, why not? Like maybe I could work from home and do nails. Anyway, I hated it. I got qualified and I was quite good at it and I got very busy, very quick. And I started messing about with some face paints. And then one of my clients recommended me for a special effects film. had no qualifications. I had no idea how to do special effects. But the producer rung me and said, oh, I've heard that you're... sort of looking for some work and we need some extra people. Are you interested in doing a zombie film? And I was like, yeah, great. And I was like, when does it start filming? And they were like in three weeks. So I had no idea what to do, how to prepare for it, what was going to be needed of me. So I just sort of thought of like my projects. I wrote a list of what would be in a zombie film and what I thought they'd need and found out about bondos and prosthetics and. what sort of equipment I'd need and I watched every single video that I could find on YouTube. I read books, I spoke to people that I knew that were in the industry. Yeah, and it just kind of went from there and I turned up and I had ridiculous amounts of blood because I'd made it, I didn't buy it. I didn't know where the pro shops were or anything like that, so I just thought I'll make everything. And I had it all laid out in my mum's car, like, because I had a big seven seater, so I it all laid out. And when I turned up, one of the girls had messed up with the budget and she didn't have any blood. And I said, well, I've got some stuff. And they were like, right, come on, you can come in and sort of take charge. So that's what did. So your entry point is training to be a beautician, which is very different from the work that you're doing now. 2013. And then opportunity came along that you said yes to. That seems to be such a common thread with this podcast. People just taking an opportunity. Also, what seems to be a really common thread is YouTube. Yeah. Yeah, School of YouTube, which is what I've been introduced to since working with Tom and other guests that we've spoken to. You can basically learn how to do anything on YouTube. it's just an incredible thing. So you turn up with a load of zombie blood and this is your kind of gateway into what becomes, how do you describe that? Is special effects makeup? Yeah, special effects is very technical maker. It's like virgin on science. So you have to use the right quantities of things. I'm not going to sit here and pretend that I know all the ins and outs. I don't. There's fabulous people that work on Hollywood films and they're hugely talented. And it's a skill with all the carving and all of the casting and things that you need to learn. The product knowledge that you need is just... you're also working with organic material, i.e. people's skin. me? yeah. was, sorry yeah, no I thought you meant about what I was using because I did. I used everything that I had in the house rather than expensive. Yeah. That's really interesting. I mean, from the science side of it, that you do have to be mindful that you you know, affixing this to people's faces. Yeah. Although lots of the products are quite strong, yeah, the ones I made, I even put coffee in it. So and you learn all of that yourself, that's kind of your own recipe over time, you're perfecting that. messing about because I think part of being a makeup artist, think people think, it's just grabbing the makeup and sticking it on someone's face. But for me, it's all about the chopping things up and mixing this and that and seeing what happens. It's like an experiment. potions to a degree. So at that point, let's call it traditional beautician role. There are elements of that. Again, I'm coming at this from a position of ignorance because I don't live in this world or touch upon it too much, but beautician, makeup artist, there is a difference between those things. Huge, yeah. Yeah, a huge difference. Just to clarify, a huge difference between those things. But when did you start moving into do a job that you really loved? So beautician training 2013. Yeah. And then you, you keep saying yes to opportunities you're getting, you know, other training comes along too. I think my first film was in 2015 because I'm going to celebrate next month, 10 years in the industry. Amazing. Congratulations. think AID is a big uh milestone. Yeah, it's so great. Like I've had so much fun. I never thought that I would get myself back and not be as serious as I'd become. I felt very old, very serious when I was in London to the point that I'd see people on the train and I'd go and sit in another carriage because I was like, I'm too busy. I can't talk to you. Whereas now I talk to everyone, as you can see. Is that how you success now? Obviously you need to make money, but do you measure success by the enjoyment and the fun you're having doing the job? But also for me, success is relative to my family. Like if they still like me and we can still have time together and enjoy it, I would class that my most, the biggest success I've got is my husband and my kids. don't, the other stuff's great and like I love it and really do put everything into it. But, when all said and done, if it was my family or my career, it would be them hands down. So it's kind of, it's all something on the side to me. It's not my main priority anymore. When I was in London, I took it too seriously and was very career driven and all about the money. And yeah, I just don't care about that anymore. And you think you needed to have gone through that experience to realise that that wasn't the thing that you were searching for really, or that it wasn't the thing you needed? Did you have to go through that career ladder and climb that to get to where you went to, to then realise maybe this isn't the top of it? Well, I think to be honest, if I hadn't have done that, I wouldn't be where I am now and I wouldn't have the experiences that I've had. it was something that made me very sick. And then it's something that's also sort of freed me. So it's just like everything with my work, it all played its part and it was worth it. Totally, I wouldn't change a thing. I've got no regrets. So I've enjoyed every step of it, but I'm glad that part of it's over. And we've closed the door on that chapter and now I get to do this. we had Alexandra Allen come on who's a nutritionist. does so much more than that. But she describes herself as being lucky enough to have had two careers in her life and literally enjoyed the first one. And equally, if not more enjoys the second one. And it's just that there can be two chapters, there can be more than two chapters. Yeah, well, I'm planning on more. There you go. yeah. But there's like this term squiggly career. It doesn't all have to follow a trajectory upwards until you retire and then die. Like you could do loads of stuff. I do, I get told off a lot because people, do, I mean, that's been my whole life. One person just swapped one for another. But yeah, with the, I get told off because people are like, oh, if you're doing luxury bride, or you could just focus on that. Yeah. If you're doing fashion, you should just focus on that. Cause obviously I used to lead teams for New York, London and Paris fashion week. And so, yeah, I love doing that and fashion was my heart. That was something I always wanted to do, but it's very fast paced and I think you do it for so long and then you think it drains all your energy and there's lots of things, there's lots of parts about it that are negative. So it's quite interesting when you sit back and you actually evaluate things, you think. actually, there's other parts to the career that I could be doing that I would enjoy more. And at the moment, because I'm homeschooling, I have changed it again. So I'm not doing so much film work anymore. I'm not doing a lot of fashion. It's more red carpet, luxury bridal and event work, which I love. And I'm off to Italy, I can say. Wow, you can't say anything more than that. When we stop recording, can you say anything more about it? no. NDA is assigned, but yeah. oh I'm going to take you back a couple of steps and then we'll go on to explore what we can with what it is you're doing. But you sound, so you're explaining school of YouTube. Let's go back to that point and being self-taught. That's fine. We're not going to stay there for long, but being self-taught and making opportunities and saying yes to opportunities that have come out of not nowhere, but let's say early on saying yes to things have opened other doors for you. Then you started to do more study. How important is it to have the qualifications, both from your own perspective to feel credible in the space, but also to get ahead in that space? That's a really good point because I did actually start doing m bridal catalogues and I was doing campaigns and things and obviously I'd done the zombie film without any qualifications but I did get to a point where I felt like imposter syndrome. was like, I'm not qualified for this. I don't really know what I'm doing. There's so much more that I need to learn and I feel like alone, I'm not gonna get the contacts and everything as quick as I thought. I just thought that the next step for me would be to get qualified. It's quite expensive to become a makeup artist. I mean, today I've spent over 80,000 pounds on my kit and training. So it's kind of, yeah, I had to get qualified. So I went to the Academy of Freelance Makeup. It was then in Soho, it's now in Shoreditch. They have also got an online school and one in New York and Dubai as the other huge campus. Incredible. I went to them and qualified with them and they were the ones that said, what are doing here? You already know a lot of the stuff. I explained my position and they just said, okay, well, you can go to New York. So I started working on the pro team straight away. And then did a couple of seasons and then was like leading. yeah. But what lovely validation to have at that stage. because there is imposter syndrome and it's, don't think that 2016 that imposter syndrome and you from what you said don't necessarily align. So I can't imagine it's a comfortable position for you to be in where you don't feel I need to be as knowledgeable and clued up as I possibly can to have that. confidence that what I'm doing is the right thing and I'm happy with the service I'm providing and also enjoying it. It's horrible to have imposter syndrome creeping up behind you, it's like a shadow. like, oh, I'm down. London, when I was in banking, because of the project analyst side of things, I had to research everything. So I used to have to read the FT so that I could have conversations with certain people at a certain level. I used to have to really know what I was talking about when I was sitting there giving notes over, especially if it was about the budget. You know, I needed to know where that 8 million was going, you know, so was kind of... You get used to everything you do. You've double, triple checked it. And also I've got dyslexia. So I've always struggled with things. So I got in the pattern of checking everything I did and numbing what I was talking about before I said things. So when I went and qualified, I needed that validation from qualified people to tell me I was doing the right thing. And then I actually went full circle and became one of their first ever students, teachers and started teaching there in 2020. That's in front oh Did you ever see yourself going into the education part? It's an integral part of what you're doing now and what you're doing. You learn more. Yeah. Because everyone challenges you in a different way and they've all got a totally different way of approaching. Creative people, great to be around because they don't have a rule book. They don't have a uh framework to work to. They're just like, how can we do it? Everyone's got a different idea and they're used to that collaboration side of things, which helps you get far better results than if you just did it on your own. I love that word collaboration and creatives and collaboration, just seem, it just gels together so nicely because creatives will seek other creatives out and then they collaborate. Even when maybe there is competition or maybe there is something, maybe you are at odds But then you don't always see it that way because I work with lots of other makeup artists, but I don't, even when I've got the job and they're coming along to technically help me, I don't treat them as though they're working for me. I'm like, thanks for helping me. Like, let's get this job done. And then I always say it was a pleasure working together. It's like, I really enjoy that. Yeah, the collaborative effect because there's always something. Like I don't ever feel like I know enough about anything. So I'm always reading, I drive a bit nuts. I've got about 15 books that like partially read next to the bed. oh I've got books everywhere. But yeah, I just think there's not enough time to know everything I need to know. it's great to have that desire. In practice, can you take it all in all the time? can't remember anything, but yeah, I do try. Okay. uh From a curiosity perspective, when did the body painting side of things, was that an extension of other makeup that you were doing or is that something very specific in terms of skill set itself? uh That was something that when I was a child, we used to go to fates and things and my family were always in the tennis club in Lee Ridgeway, West Giffard. So I used to see this woman and she always used to do the same face paint and it was this, uh the sea, you know, with the sunrise. I think I probably had something like that. was a very 80s kind of vibe. was like, there was a couple of options. That was one of them. And I always was fascinated and just thought one day I'm going to do that. And then where I had the time, cause I was on maternity leave um and kids, they don't mind being face painted and it was all a bit of fun. And they painted me. That was very good. Didn't look quite like this, but yeah. awesome. was fun. Yeah, little snap in the eye. How did that develop then to becoming a game? I used to literally invite people around for a cup of tea and be like, I'm going to paint you. that right? And then it just sort of went into a bit like with the costume aspect. I've always loved the costume and the making of things. I wouldn't say that I can make full garments and clothes, but I do need to actually go and learn that. But I think for me, yeah, I just thought. the whole creation of looks and things. So I started building all the props. It's like in my hat, because you said bring some bits, I've got a couple of wigs. I've got this ridiculous hat with tassels on it that I made for a fashion show last year. Because to buy a hat like that was a couple of grand and I couldn't get it flown in from LA in time. So I was like, I'll make one. It's fine. Yeah, so you're learning all these tools as you go. And then getting the people, when you start showing people what you're making, you put together mood boards and it brings people in and then they volunteer or people are interested to work with you because you're doing something that's different and unique and they can see it works for their portfolio. So then I just started working with more models and then they'd volunteer their time and we'd do a collaboration. the reason I'm asking about this as well for anyone else that's listening that is interested in moving into this space or maybe doing this as a passion project. done it the conventional way. It doesn't sound like that, but I also, don't think anyone's going to be able to exactly map out how you've done it. But I think at points like learning more about the entry points or learning about some of the junctions that you found yourself at is important. Or someone might be able to relate to some of what you're saying. With the education side of things, how important is it now, maybe in hindsight, to have those qualifications to get ahead in the industry or to even get your first job in industry? it a necessity or is it something you should be doing for professional development? I can ask another question without losing breath. I think it's a bit of a twofold the industry because you've got lots of influences, lots of influences come into it and they're not necessarily qualified or skilled or anything. Sometimes they're just opening beauty boxes, but they seem to do really well. they manage that without the, some little kid that opens. boxes and they get like $250 million for that. like that's wild, but that's not something that I try and compete with. If you want to do it the more traditional way that I have where you get qualified, then it's all about, I always say this to everyone that I've ever taught, it is a hundred percent about your mindset. The only way that you're going to do well is if you know you're going to do well and you're going to put a hundred percent into everything. And you're not going to accept any less. For me, was never, I was never worried about what anyone else was doing. I didn't see anyone as competition. I just thought, how far can I push this for my own interest? Because I often find things a bit bland. So I like to try and make things, I yeah, I get bored very easily. So I do things to entertain myself and. I'm lucky that sometimes that interests other people. Yeah. Can I ask a personal question? Are you accepting of the fact that some of the people you teach aren't, they're not going to have the same mindset or the same level of confidence as you? And how do you disseminate what you've got and try and pass even a small amount onto them? Is that something you even try to do? Do you just accept that not everyone's going to have that mindset or do you try and pass some do always say to people it's about their attitude. If they haven't got the work ethic, the very least they can do is turn up and be willing. Because I won't have anyone on my team that isn't a team player and do everything. I'll wash people's brushes. If one of my girls is busy and I can see that she's overloaded, I'll either jump in and start helping her, wash up the brushes. I need people like that. It's that sort of attitude. those people, whether they've got skill or not, I will have them on my team over people that have got a bad attitude. Often we would get students that were beautiful and very rude and thought that they were above what you were teaching them. I even had one girl walk out my class. She said to me, I don't need to do this class. I'm not interested. I think it was body painting. And she was very much like a fashionista. and she was just going to do glam makeup and she already had a lot of clients in Dubai. So she didn't feel that it was necessary. So she sort of got up and walked out and she went, have you got a problem with it? I said, no, I get paid either way, babe. See you later. One less person for me to talk to. Yeah, she very clearly comes to the conclusion. We never had that dropped in a podcast. No, well, I think again, that if you could bottle up part of what you've got and give that just that level of security, I'm trying to think of the right word to use. But again, it's confidence, it's self confidence that you I've lot of mistakes. So I know what I'm capable of. And I always think that confidence is linked to capability. And for me, I've always made myself as capable as I possibly can be. Everything. knowledge, learning. Like everything I've done, I've always been like a novice and a starter at the beginning. So I've sort of gone into everything rather than beating myself up when it goes wrong. I'm like, won't fucking do that again. And then you just carry on. never felt like I needed to give myself a hard time or sit there wracked with guilt. Did I say something that might upset someone? If I did, I probably meant it. You're intentional about it. It's a conscious decision. You mentioned in your questionnaire that in your spare time, I do have to look at my notes here because it was quite a long list. In your spare time, you swim, paddleboard, box, paint, build things. You also already mentioned that you homeschool your son. How do you do all those things and do what you're doing for paid work and freelancing and all of these amazing things where you get to be creative too? don't know. Yeah, I kind of like every day. I like trying to cram in as much as physically possible. I do have burnouts. I drive myself mad. I drive my family mad. I don't sleep very much. but yeah, I like to do a lot of things. I've got a lot of interests and I do get bored quite easily. So I always felt that. to keep moving forward with your life. You should be trying to be better than you were the day before. So every day I just think, oh, what can we do? And obviously trying to manage and juggle a whole host of wants and needs from the children, because they're all completely different. I the older ones, they don't need my help anymore, but like the younger ones, it's just, I write lists. If you see my phone, I think I've got like 24,000 notes. I write a lot of lists, I take a lot of photos. If I can't be bothered to read something or I'm in a rush, I take a photo and I'll come back to it later. When I'm sitting on the train going to work, I'll look through and see what I've missed. I'm just always trying to play catch-up. I've got loads of different email addresses for different people. So I'm very good at prioritizing what's important and then working around that. And I'm very lucky that I've got to a stage where I pick and choose what jobs I take. That's a lovely place to be. I don't do everything I'm offered. And I think that is a rite of passage to have gone through maybe the jobs where you had to say yes to it to make ends meet and make the money come in. Yeah, exactly. And that's to gain experience a lot of the time, right? we, it's a conversation that isn't had as regularly. absolute abuse of power. yeah, in my industry is very much. But I get that whilst also I think it's important to accept that sometimes that's the way things work and maybe it's going to be a while before that. out who's actually wants it enough. And those people progress and everyone else goes. Yeah. But it's come up a few times now about getting experience without necessarily expecting pay for it. And the conversation around that has shifted a lot in recent years. I mean, I used to, sorry to interrupt you, used to, when I was at A-O-F-M, especially when I was teaching, afterwards, when you would go on the pro, sometimes you would get paid, sometimes you wouldn't, sometimes they'd pay for the accommodation, sometimes they couldn't because they were actually buying the shows. So I used to... when I was talking to some of the girls that I was training, they'd go, this is outrageous. Like we should be paid, like we've paid to be qualified. And I was like, no, hold on a minute. When you qualify, especially because it's a condensed short course, you're doing it in a quick space of time. You don't always absorb everything you're taught and it takes a long time for you to finesse all of those skills and techniques that you're shown. So when you come on and you're working for me on Fashion Week, You can't always do what I need you to do. So that's you learning in real time. So it's like an extended learning and you're very lucky to have the opportunity to be in that position. Because there's people that have wanted to do fashion weeks for years their whole life and they don't get the opportunity. So it's kind of because AOM bought the shows, it was one cool thing you got as a graduate if you really wanted to be on a show and you worked hard enough. had the right, you didn't have an actual problem, then you could get on the shows. But isn't that such an undervalued trait being easy to work with, isn't it? And because you talk about an attitude problem, but actually sometimes just being easier to work with or being at least willing to go above and beyond to do things. Yeah. But yeah, sometimes just just being easy to work with is quite a nice attribute. And I don't mean vanilla. Yeah. I just mean you fit with the other people around you. Yeah, yeah. When I go to a job, I sort of make that decision before I get there. sometimes there's people that are on the team or that you've got to work with. I've had it before where there people that are not your cup of tea and you'd rather not work with them. But obviously that comes back to the professionalism I had to display when I was in finance. then even with the beauty side of things, like if you stick to... you're part of the job and just stay in your box, then you don't really need to be too involved with other people. So you can easily work as a team. You don't have to like or get on with everyone. And I just go there thinking, it doesn't matter. They could be whoever. I'm just like, I'm going to have fun. I'm going to love this. I'm away from the kids for a few hours. I can smoke without being... hiding around the corner because my kids didn't know I smoked. Yeah, I can just relax and have a cup of coffee without someone telling me what they want. But the next question I'm going to ask it anyway, but I think I'm fairly confident in answer. Has it ever been a time since 2013 where you've thought to yourself, I'm going to go back and work in an office? I've been offered jobs and obviously the security of having that monthly wage and I did quite good money. So for me, it's very tempting. And also all the stuff, the security, you can have holidays, you can be sick. Like all of these things that as a self-employed person, you don't get the luxury of it. So it always makes me laugh when people that are employed. say, oh, work so hard. I'm like, what time did you finish? They're like 5.30. I'm like, what time did you start? They're like 8.30. I'm like, okay. Yeah. But it's a side, do know what? doesn't really come up too often in conversation about the stuff that you miss like the things like holiday pay and sick pay and pension contributions and all of these things that you... Yeah, is that security. There's the argument as well that a permanent job is only as secure as a notice period and things can happen and they're all variable. If you're really good, you're the last one to go. There's also, I reckon you could argue that point really well, but yeah, no, you're right. But I definitely think when you take on that kind of freelance lifestyle or working for yourself, that is the part that maybe you have to factor in. You're not going to get holiday pay if you're sick, you are down whatever amount of money. m why when people say, oh, you're so lucky. You're so lucky. I'm like, yeah, I am. I am. I do genuinely feel grateful and lucky, but I know that you make your own luck and that it's down to work ethic. If I didn't put in the hours promoting myself, I would have still been a beautician. If I hadn't have spent hours in the night while my kids were sleeping, teaching myself body painting. I wouldn't have been able to go and do it for events all over the world. So it's kind of like, you only get back what you put in. think that's true of life. That's true of relationships. If you don't take it seriously and have real goals and a real strong ethic, and also like quite thick skin, because lots of people say no. Lots of people are not interested even the way I look. Not right now. But like even the way I look, know, there's people that don't want to work with people that are bigger. They want people that are size eight that look like models to be, you know, giving that aesthetic. And that's something that I'm aware of too. And I just think, okay, it's your loss. It's fine. There's a lot of things that happen in life. And I just think if you don't put the effort in and you don't have the right attitude, you're always going to miss out. Yeah, mean, mindset coaching has to be another string to your bow at some point, yeah, I'm sitting here and I'm thinking like, it's such confidence inducing stuff that you're saying, because if you really dig down and think about that, there are steps and work that you can do even if you don't, even if you aren't innately that person inside, there are things that you can do. don't get me wrong, there's points where I'm not happy with myself or in my own skin or there's things going on and then I'm like, right, how can I improve this? Because you're the only person that can ever change whether you're happy or not. No one else can do that. They can piss you off, but that's temporary. It's only you decide to drag it out. see what I mean? oh wish I was a big enough person at the time to be able to see it in the moment. But yeah, it takes me a little while to pass that. got the temper. But yeah, think that's where the boxing comes in. To get it out. I've got to say because we said before recording but when you when you mentioned Vic your your husband Vic was a guest a previous guest on the podcast and boxing coach Vic and he he's one of my favorite people so I just want to give him a shout out as your other half and he's such a lovely guy. is. So when we talk about. Congratulations. That's so amazing. But yeah when we're talking about Vic for anyone that knows Vic and yourself they'll already know but Vic is. Vic, so you should check out his episode. I'll use it as an opportunity to plug that one. I even learnt something and that's why I said thank you to you because it was lovely with me and the kids listening to it. you what, that's what I really hope that people get from this too. That at one point you'll listen back as your kids get older and it's just a nice thing to look back on. And for Victor had a chance to share his story, I think it was really important. Well, he should do that more because he's got lots of things that he should. loved it. it was, again, this isn't Vic's podcast, but it was so well loved that podcast and he's so well loved too. you're married to a legend. he's married to one too. What's the best experience you've had in your job? Well, one that was quite a long time ago when I was heavily in the fashion world, I got flown to Cannes to get Christie Brinkley ready and her daughter, Sailor. And I got her ready for the show and it was in this jet hangar. So it was fabulous. We flew into one airport, got taken to another, got her ready, but I had to fly to Milka for a different thing. So I literally was there for a couple of hours. I had a car waiting for me. And I got Christie Brinkley ready and when I was doing her makeup, her phone rang and she went, it's Billy. Our daughter Alex is going on at ah Madison Square Garden in New York. She's a singer or she plays the violin. I'm not quite sure, but anyway, she's fabulous. she is, can you answer the phone? So to answer the phone to Billy Joel. And I used to love in the middle of the night. my god. Back in the day. I'm such a big B-Jail fan as well. That's incredible. Quite cool, we just said hi. It's it's Chrissie there. said, hold on a moment. And I sort of was the phone while she was having her hair done. I think that's one of the coolest stories I've heard. think that's amazing. Billy Joel is quite a claim to even have said, yeah, he's a ledge. He is a ledge. Okay. What's the hardest part of your job that no one sees? At the hours and lugging all the heavy stuff around and the packing, I must pack cases. Yeah, every couple of days I'm packing and unpacking. And I've got a studio that's just covered in cases. I think I've got 18 large suitcases. Because I guess people see the part of the process where it's you opening boxes or crates and then you're there. They're not seeing the transit. They're not seeing that you haven't got an army of people carrying that shit for you to get to where you need to go. Unless there's budget for that, I guess. But yeah, it's the grunt work. The bit that kind of gets you from A to B is... Yeah, I think it's just, it's very tiring. It's physically demanding and tiring. And I think everyone thinks, you're so lucky you get to go to all these places, but the weight of the staff and then you always get people stopping you. Today it was the police. It's usually the people in customs, you know, like they want to go through everything. They question you. made the stupid mistake of running once to the airport. And I was late and yeah, in a rush and I still had backstage pro makeup artist t-shirt on and I hadn't thought about it. And I had a lanyard around my neck and I'm just running to check in and they're like, have you been working in the US? And I was like, no. And just stood there smiling at this woman and like that crazy smile. And then she's like, just take it off. And I was like, I'm so sorry. I just ran to the toilet. you know, like again, it comes down to attitude. Like I could have been a dick and started having to go at people and trying to kick off and justify my actions. But so what? Like I wasn't being paid. So I wasn't technically working in the definition of work. Cause I wasn't getting any bloody money. So yeah, it was okay. yeah. Alright, me again. I hope you're enjoying this week's episode. If you do not think that it's worth a rating and a review for the quality of Bee's makeup alone, then you're mad. Obviously, if you're listening, then you won't know the quality of Bee's makeup. So you have a defense, but jump on YouTube and you'll quickly see what I'm talking about. If you can take 15 seconds to give us a rating and a review and also subscribe to follow the channel on YouTube, I will, as I've said before, be eternally grateful. Thank you so much. I'll be getting back to the episode. you Right, we are going to play a quick game. Okay. And then we're to do the closing tradition on the podcast. Okay. If that's okay. the game we're to play is a oldie, oldie but goldie. We are going to play this or that. And we're going to go for a couple of questions with two options. And you just need to give me quite quickly the one option without context. It's not, they can't be right or wrong. So that's the good thing about it. So. I've tried to make these relevant to what you do and I can only apologize in advance if they're not. Early call time or late night rap? Late night wrap. Headphones in or chatting while you work? think I know the answer to that. I'm allowed to wear headphones because I'm normally leading so I can't. That's a good point. It was a silly question. I'm sorry. Big creative mess or tidy as you go. You don't see that. Who liked tidies that go because people take photos and make me look like. Oh yeah, you saw my studio right now. Okay, planning every detail or make it up as you go. You can't have a bit, but if you can't get off the fence. can. I'm not going to argue with you. Runway show prep or bridal beauty. run, my... Okay, body paint or face paint? Okay, working solo or working as part of a team? Recognition for work or knowing you nailed it? Well, I always know if I've nailed it or not. But yeah, the recognition would be nice. It's very, uh it's not very forthcoming. guess you are so behind the scenes as well aren't you? are not always getting all the glory. You're not... You're putting your work on... when you're part of a team, it's normally like the person that you've done the work on that gets the recognition. But yeah. Okay, that is the end of that game. We were, just a full disclosure for anyone listening or watching, we were trying to come up with something where we could make use of the wigs that you have in the car. Maybe that's for part two. We'll see what happens in the future. I feel like we need to have a follow-up conversation at some point because there's just more stories, I think. We're going to close with the closing tradition on the podcast. Do you know what that is? No. Do you know what? Thank you for being honest. It is a question that my mum sends in. No, I did see that in one of the things I tell my mum who's coming on and she was sending a voice note so she sent in a question if I can find it here so I'll play it down the mic. Hi Bee, how do you think AI is going to influence the way you make people up, particularly the creative makeup? Do you think it's going to help or hinder? Thank you. Oh, hello. That's Lisa, by the way. My mum's name. So AI in your world, you tell me, is it having an impact? Is it changing? Yeah, I know some people that do it. Richard Thorne does actual whole fashion shows, I think now. And yeah, there's someone that says this dress does not exist. So she does these wonderful sort of really creative looks. But obviously, you can buy that and then you've got a photo, but you can't go out in that and it's not... AI is really a brilliant tool, a like YouTube. It's fantastic if you know how to use it for your benefit. I don't think that it will ever replace the in-person sort of vibe because as people, I think it's quite a dangerous thing, AI. But obviously that wasn't the question. The question was like, how do I think it will change it? I think that it could help people if they've got like a creative block. It might give them some inspiration that they might not thought of. But you can't replace people and the creativity and the play mentality that you need to have to, like I said about the sort of science side of things, the playing and seeing what works and what doesn't. No AI could tell you if it's going to work or not. You have to actually do it. And it's the same with looks. When we're getting models ready and when you're working with a stylist, they will... bring stuff that they think is going to work and then we put it on the model and we're like, no. And you know, it's the same with designers, you know, they'll make it and to all the measurements, but sometimes it just won't fit for whatever reason. So it's kind of like with that, with makeup, you need someone on hand. And most of the time we're like caretakers. We look after people, we give them tissues, mints. I've had jobs where I've not even worked. I've literally been there to give someone tissues and just be their mate for the day. I guess, again, from my limited experience, slash no experience, but I can imagine ideation, concept, coming up with different concepts. But what you do is so physical and so tangible and is so tactile. I can't see a world where a robot powered by AI takes that over. So in a way, definitely now, at least for foreseeable future, you're kind of future-proofing your profession. But yeah, for the moment, God, God. I mean, obviously, it just depends how far we go with that, because if they got to the point where they're going to take everyone's image, and they're going to do whole AI films, then obviously, no, they don't need us because they can just do the makeup for that. But if they're still going to be making films and TV shows, and we're going to still have humans running the world, hopefully, yeah. It's a scary thought. does pose a question at the end sometimes that really makes you think, so don't lose sleep over It's an interesting one. B, you've been an absolute pleasure. I'm going to say thank you again on behalf of the whole team and me that you have been an amazing guest, but the effort that you have gone to tonight. evading capture from the police, doing what you've done to your face. Thank you so much, because it will be the most visually striking episode that we've had. But you've been a joy. Thank you so much for taking the time. you. Cheers. Cheers, baby. Well done. That was incredible. Thank you.